Manchin Should Just Switch Parties.

And stop getting all this attention. Fat chance. His motivations are more attention grabbing than what's best. Let us not forget his home state.  A coal belching shithole that elects him.

Long Live The Grateful Dead 

The downside of this is that it would give Republicans (McConnell) control of the Senate 

DINO

Take a minute to think about the fact that Manchin is a total piece of shit, and he still better than any Republican.

not really, he's the same.

also, wv is not a shit hole. impoverished, yes.

does anyone even run against him?

A more liberal D would never win in West Virginia.

We would end up with a MAGA loon in his place.

And, yes, if he switched parties Mitch would run the Senate again.

Manchin has confirmed all of Biden's picks for the federal bench. In a 50/50 senate his votes here really matter. The lesser of two evils provides some very real positives for We The People in this case.  So much better than the kkk party controling the senate. His state would never elect any type of progressive Democrat.    I'll live with Manchin and continue the fight for progressive ideas.

Be very careful what you wish for. Manchin is a pain in the ass, but McConnell MUST not be allowed to become majority leader again. 

Rather, people need to VOTE in November, and add at least three or four more Dem seats in the Senate. Then they can abolish the filibuster, and THEN Manchin will be irrelevant, even if he switches parties. 

At least three or four more Dem seats are needed for that outcome. 

>Unfortunately that is highly unlikely.>

Really? GA & PA alone could push the Senate  Blue.

Also in the mix is GOP incumbents and other candidates attempting to soft-peddle their very public and potentially quite damaging positions on abortion. We'll see how things may continue to take shape.

"Here’s why Democrats could keep the Senate"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/05/politics/democrats-senate-2022-republican...

Democrats could stand to do a major, national media blitz, using scare tactics to vilify the Republicans for the anti-American, fascist pieces of shit that they are. Most Americans are not religious. Most Americans don't believe that the government should legislate private lives. Most Americans don't believe in the tenets of the Republican Party. However, unless Democrats get the message out about how fucked up the Christofascists are, they will gain more control.

If we don't get a Blue tsunami this November it will be a Red rip tide, as the rest of our rights are ripped away by Turtle man and Trump's SCOTUS. The R controlled State legislatures would make sure no Dem could win in 24 - or forever.

>Better get used to the new reality. The Democrats can't figure out how to stop it. Sad indeed.<

The chance to stop it was back in 2016.

> a major, national media blitz, using scare tactics to vilify the Republicans for the anti-American, fascist pieces of shit that they are. 

Normalize the scare tactics the Right has used and turn them against them. I'm Antifa, and I vote.

>>>>The chance to stop it was back in 2016.

What happened during 2008-2016 to push people away from your candidate in 2016? 

And as we all know Hillary Clinton won the 2016 presidential race

by almost 3 million popular votes

But I suppose this was the voters fault?

>What happened during 2008-2016 to push people away from your candidate in 2016>

Both sides are scum. Besides it's not like you'd have to had been some sort of functional idiot not to have seen this coming

The Manchinian Candidate of the Democratic Party...

Both sides are scum. <<<

Yes.

please vote for us

please send us six dollars

Yep, one side helped to get health care for 20 million uninsured.

 the other side gives us tax cuts for the rich, and are Christofascists.

Elf, too bad both sides got us citizens united, eh?

What's worse is that the citizens/FEC ruling came down when democrats had single party control of government and they still didn't do shit aboout it except just flap and whine until they inevitably lost their majority.  (also the first time they finally had achieved single party control in like what? 15 years?)

sure was an awkward state of the union a couple weeks later, wasn't it?

or at least that's how I remember things

Should they have amended the constitution to address the constitutionality of limiting contributions?

Also they still didn’t have a filibuster proof majority. 

But sure, Christofascism isn't so bad when you consider your point. 

jesus christ on a popsicle stick you are obsessed

I'm not a partisan. Have you not figured this out? Unaffiliated. I call it like I see it. Politicians don't get the benefit of the doubt from me just because they wear a nice blue shirt. That's it.

And clearly I agree the parties are not the same as you seem so fixated on discussing

if they were, the dems would just censure senator manchin

see?

I responded to your criticism. How should have the Democrats countered the Supreme Court's ruling? 

Couldn't amend the constitution. Couldn't even overcome a filibuster .

And since the choice for president and congress is really  binary, i believe it is important to choose the side which will do the least amount of damage. 

It was easy to see which side that was in 2016, when something could have been done to prevent the current state of affairs.

  Now should be even easier to see which side will do the least amount of damage. 

They shouldn't have done a god damned thing, lumber. Nothing.

Exactly like they didn't before the roe news was leaking out, or after, or since the actual written decision dropped.

Democrats have established a very clear pattern of treating serious matters as hypotheticals until just about every possible opportunity  to have taken any preemptive action has passed, then they start screaming that the sky is falling

That's where I'm at. I did vote for joe, despite saying that I would never vote for him on this very board. I also voted for our two sitting dem senators too. Hope this clears it up. No more questions. 

Folks criticize, just wondering what legislation people believe can be passed.

Regarding Roe...

Once it was considered precedent.

(I'm sure you remember  the Affordable Care act monopolizing most of Obama’s first term and it costing the Democrats their majority in congress.)

Since the leak...

I guess they should have passed legislation.

Joe Manchin Votes Against Protecting Abortion Rights Despite Claiming To Support Abortion Rights

Senate Democrats' attempt to enshrine the abortion protections of Roe v. Wade into federal law resoundingly failed Wednesday, with one of Democrats' own members, Sen. Joe Manchin, joining every single Republicans to tank the legislation. The Women’s Health Protection Act was shot down 51-49 ...

Democrats brought the bill to the floor just over a week after a draft opinion by Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito striking down Roe leaked to Politico

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/joe-manchin-vote-against-codify-...

Since the ruling...

Biden issues executive order responding to abortion ruling

The White House on Friday announced a wide-ranging executive order aimed at protecting abortion rights — its most significant response to a recent Supreme Court decision overturning long-standing precedent guaranteeing the right to an abortion nationwide since the high court made the ruling two weeks ago.

https://rollcall.com/2022/07/08/biden-issues-executive-order-responding-...

Following President Biden’s Executive Order to Protect Access to Reproductive Health Care, HHS Announces Guidance to Clarify that Emergency Medical Care Includes Abortion Services

HHS, through the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), issued clarifying guidance on the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) and reaffirmed that it protects providers when offering legally-mandated, life- or health-saving abortion services in emergency situations. In addition to the guidance, Secretary Xavier Becerra, in a letter to providers, made clear that this federal law preempts state law restricting access to abortion in emergency situations - PDF.

“Under the law, no matter where you live, women have the right to emergency care — including abortion care,” said HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra. “Today, in no uncertain terms, we are reinforcing that we expect providers to continue offering these services, and that federal law preempts state abortion bans when needed for emergency care

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/07/11/following-president-bidens-exe...

Nothing. 

I just told you dems wait until the last possible second before moving a single muscle, and your links pretty much shore that up. So, thanks I guess.

joe has been president going on two years. Why it take that long just to dream up this latest order? Please tell me he didn't see the train coming. Too little, too late. Clarification memorandums? Are you kidding me? It's the dictionary definition of reactive leadership. 
 

manchin. Again. I'm not a Democrat. I don't even live in West Virginia. While I do agree dems need badly to get their house in order, dude is just not a part of my personal political calculus. I can't vote for any more senators, and I damn sure can't vote twice.

now lumber will you please stop twist-challenging any criticism I make of anything blue as some kind of blanket approval of their opponents? It's ridiculous and exhausting.
 

There are dumbass partisan hacks on both sides but we all more less can agree which side is worse in almost every way.

Vote Blue and get us at least three or four more Senate seats or we are completely fucked. Simple as that. 

If anyone thinks it’s bad now with a 50-50 Senate, wait until we fall asleep for the election and Mitch McConnell takes over again. You WILL notice the difference. Things CAN get worse, trust me.

we still can haz cannabis not a schedule1 drug?

which states would be able to go blue and not red and add the other seats?

dems will continue to get trounced until the dnc leadership changes.

Speaking of executive orders, how about a really really easy one?

why hasn't the commander in chief executive ordered the immediate separation of servicemembers found to be affiliated with the oath keepers, proud boys, threepers, and all the rest of these vanguard patriot front assholes from his ranks?

^Could be seen as prejudicial in the upcoming seditious conspiracy trials of some of the members of said groups. 

The US should follow Canada and New Zealand and designate these groups terrorist organizations.  

https://www.theonion.com/oil-companies-lament-rising-price-of-joe-manchi...

Elf, I'm obsessed because the US becoming  a Christofascist Theocracy is not just a hypothetical scenario, it's happening. Republicans are clear about their intentions. Democrats are the only viable option nationally.  And although the Democrats deserve their share of criticism, the difference between the parties is glaring. What I find particularly frustrating is people's insistence that Democrats pass legislation, but are willfully ignorant as to the legislative process. The Democrats do not have a filibuster proof majority. They briefly had that majority in Obama’s first term, they passed the Affordable Care Act, then lost control of Congress in the next election. 

So I ask again, what should have the Democrats done in response to the citizens united decision? A law was declared unconstitutional, therefore other laws aimed at the same issue would be similarly unconstitutional. The alternative is amending the constitution. So what could they have done?

Regarding Roe... given the current makeup of the Senate,  what could they have done?

An executive order declaring what? Roe was the law. Should Biden have reaffirmed this with an executive order? To what end?  The Supreme Court was considering a case on the issue, any official presidential order issued while the court is deliberating would be an improper attack on the court's independence and is a hallmark of authoritarianism.

I understand that you may choose not to answer, as there is no clear answer. The Democrats biggest mistake is believing Republicans want what's best for the country, but have honest policy disagreements. Democrats have been reluctant to accept the reality that the Republicans are a Christofascist party.

Switch parties ?? Eh

I'm hoping for something a bit less subtle, like he gets hit by a moving train, or flattened by a meteorite.

>>So I ask again, what should have the Democrats done in response to the citizens united decision?<<

Lumber, they should have anticipated the forthcoming decision and legislated from that vantage point, when opportunities to significantly alter American campaign finance reform existed. Hold debate, call for votes, overload the courts with D/R litigation if necessary. Instead the Democrats just didn't act. They sat on their hands. Talking about first two years of the Obama administration here.

Yes, I know. filibuster schmilibuster. This is an imaginary obstacle and it always has been. It's political dodgeball. Not really necessary to talk further about this factor lest we descend into a circular discussion.

Well then, why did they just sit on their hands?

Well, because they were winning. 

after citizens united, and after losing their majorities in both congressional houses; out of frustration and hindsight the dems wrote like twenty something bills to try to blunt the supreme court's decision. As far as I know, none received an up or down vote, nor even a solitary formal hearing. Go figure.

well, some will retort that the dems didn't have control of Congress anymore. This would be a correct statement. (They have held it again since, though.) 

Still, that's not really the whole truth, is it?

because four years later in the very next presidential election cycle; americans had a pretty decent candidate (Bernie) demonstrate that it really (no, really) wasn't necessary to take super pac money just to be a heavyweight contender. And then the DNC conducted a hit job on his candidacy in favor of the D who was taking the dark money. Party issue. Decision made. Whatever. Not my call.

and then Hillary Clinton won the popular vote after ironically (except not really ironically) ending up being the biggest political opponent and also the biggest beneficiary of the citizens United decision! How's that for bipolar?

The article about this from the center for public integrity still burns in my mind: 

“It’d be like tobacco companies coming out and saying they wanted to fight against lung cancer,” said Dylan Ratigan

https://publicintegrity.org/politics/how-citizens-united-is-helping-hill...

so since then its been six years. Campaign finance. Democrats. What's changed? Anything?

With roe the answer is less clear, and I admittedly don't have the benefit of a decade's worth of history to sum it up yet. The bigger point is that any legislative or executive action being taken now by dems, albeit out of hindsight and carelessness, could and should have been taken sooner, in anticipation, from a position of strength rather than weakness. This is really the bare minimum in what leadership and vision requires. You might disagree. That's cool, I just don't want to keep writing books on viva about it.

separately I don't really see how a couple civilian criminal cases in the DOJ has any bearing whatsoever on how the commander in chief commands the troops. Maybe I just don't understand, but from my perspective this is comparing two totally unrelated functions of government. And I do appreciate the thoughts.

I just want to pop in for a quick comment here. It's refreshing to read the kind of respectful disagreement that's going on here, and I'm learning some stuff too. Carry on.

I understand, Elf. But like i said, ACA consumed those first 2 years.

The filibuster is an obstacle until enough votes are there to eliminate it. So far those votes have only been there for a few issues. 

Like I wrote, those groups are terrorists organizations. I was just floating an idea. Scary thing is the Proud Boys have just about taken over the Republican party in dade County. 

I thought Obama showed terrible leadership. Republicans obstructed everything, he didn't use the bully pulpit, just shrugged his shoulders.

Yep, Bernie got screwed, but I still say that progressives can take over the Democratic party similarly to the way the tea party/freedom caucus took over the Republican party.  The leadership is there. 

And in my experience  I incur injury more frequently with a trimmer, not so much the pressure washer. I enjoy using the pressure washer, no matter my state of mind  

BSS.  I think if the armed forces kicked out all the racist assholes then, one, the military would be left in shambles and two,  those fucks would just end up on a police force.  Maybe better to leave them in the military where they can do less harm.

And I agree Lumber, I think.  The only way to fight what the tea party brought on, is through the progressive movement. And  smart campaigning. Pound the christofacist racists with "Look, we are here for the people not the corporations.  And continually pound what harm those fucks are doing to everyone but the very rich.

>>>>>but I still say that progressives can take over the Democratic party similarly to the way the tea party/freedom caucus took over the Republican party.

Dunno if they could, but it would be a terrible idea if they did. Nothing would guarantee a R victory more than for the D party to get highjacked by the progressive wing.

^It's the quickest route to a national progressive party. 

What I've had difficulty understanding is why progressives do not prioritize the Supreme Court?

Republican voters get it. Hell, evangelicals voted for Trump because of the Supreme Court. 

I’ve been all over this country, from the cities through the vast rural areas, and this is not a Left-leaning country. It is a Right-leaning country. The Democrats who can actually win elections — on the national level — are the moderates. I wish that was not the case, but that is what this country is. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were the ones who knew how to win and also win a second term. But the rise of Trumpism, and the flag-waving that goes with it, has moved us WAY backwards, as the Trump appointees to the Court are proving. 

It will take many election cycles of Big Moderate Blue winning elections and winning back the moderate American voter away from the GOP. That will need to take hold and take root first, before any of us progressives can even begin to THINK about getting cocky with anything like a Green New Deal. I don’t know what parts of this country YOU’VE seen lately, but before we can even fantasize about the Green New Deal or Universal Health Care, we need to stop this sprint toward the theocratic fascism and white supremacy. Winning the long game will take a long view, just like the GOP has had since Watergate, with the help of the Federalist Society, and the Fox News that you see on the TV screen in every diner in every state in this country once you leave the urban bubbles. Our only HOPE is a strong moderate like another Obama to emerge, because Biden will get slaughtered if he runs again. 

But first we have this very very important midterm in November, and I will say it again: if Mitch McConnell regains the Senate, you WILL notice a difference. Things WILL get worse. 

Good luck on the middle road. 

Q: isn't Biden a "moderate"?

Good luck in the middle? I would say: Good luck in the Far Left lane, if you want to win an election.

Yes, Biden is a moderate, but he will not get re-elected. 

I’m not advocating watching Fox News at any great length unless you want to become very depressed, but I would suggest taking at least a brief look at it to see what they are saying and how they are framing and shaping topics. Just look in on it, and be aware. Know that there are millions upon millions of private households and public gathering places that are playing Fox News on their TV screens day after day, and in many cases around the clock. It’s something to think about. And, many of those districts had enough voters who voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. It’s not impossible. Things like Covid have come along to derail Trumpism out of necessity, for a time. But the Far Right has found a very powerful recipe of Trumpism — even without Trump — that seizes upon the hatred and prejudices of all these folks. They’re being fed the exact recipe of red meat that has been proven to work. 

>we to stop this sprint toward the theocratic fascism and white supremacy. Winning the long game will take a long view<

This is true. Unfortunately, the left is myopic and often intransigent. 

A theocracy is a government ruled by priests and bishops. We don't have that and most likely we never will.

a plutocracy is one ruled by the wealthy class. We have this. This part isn't changing any time soon.

an oligarchy is a government ruled by only the very richest members of that class. With a plurality of billionaires here; unlikely.

just to clear a few things up

carry on

Fair enough,  Christofascist plutocracy then.

Either way, a GOP Senate is not what you want. At least, it’s not what I want.

Steve Bannon is going on trial, but is also becoming a folk hero for a large segment of the population, more than you may realize. Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell is simply waiting in the wings to regain the gavel.

Carry on. 

2 dem senators are republicans.

what can youuu dooo?

Not much, Turtle. Unfortunately many seem to have unrealistic and often unreasonable expectations. 

Fetterman should win Pennsylvania. 

Aggressive, fear based campaigning seems to work for Republicans.

This is why I’ve been saying the Dems need to pick up at least three or four more Senate seats in November. And then, abolish the filibuster immediately. And then, expand the Court immediately. 

McConnell has been praising Manchin for holding the line on the filibuster. But as Merrick Garland and Ruth Ginsburg can tell you, McConnell will always go back on his word when it suits his agenda, and if he regains majority control, then McConnell will go ahead and abolish the filibuster away from the Dems, quicker than Joe Manchin can say “Holy shit!” 

The GOP owns the Court now, and they can smell blood in the water. We do not want McConnell getting back in control. I’m not sure if even the most extreme Leftists in this country are prepared for how much worse things will get if that happens.

minority rules

propaganda conquers all

are people really this stupid? racism wins +  there is no freedom

stop campaign contributions, set term limits