Mark, I was just thinking about that very thing last night, vis a vis the outside producer coming in, like Rick Rubin did with the American Recordings series for Johnny Cash. Dylan has been self-producing since Love & Theft, and seems to bristle at even the notion of outside production; I consider Time Out of Mind to be the best of his late-period albums and among the best of his entire career, and I chalk that up to how Daniel Lanois nailed the spooky, reverb-laden vibe of the whole session. For whatever reason Dylan has shunned the (outstanding) production quality of that Grammy-winner and has since opted to do it all himself. Unfortunately that means diminishing returns, because as good as some of the songs on Tempest are, the album is – at least in the scope of his almost six decades as an artist – a largely forgettable effort.
Can you imagine a Rick Rubin bringing in covers, or asking him to revisit his songbook? Not gonna happen, and that would be the path to a widespread commercial and critical reception.
Unfortunately I think we're probably just gonna get the rehash of the "Great American Songbook" ad nauseum, and if that makes him happy, that's great. He gave me Time Out Of Mind, he's still touring; I'm satisfied.
A bunch of Dylan albums seems to have one long, boring song that keeps the album from being "great". Sad-Eyed Lady, Hurricane, Joey, Tempest, some others I can't recall at the moment. Hwy. 61 and Blood avoid this - no long boring songs; all the "lesser" songs support the truly great tunes rather than detracting from them. If Dylan can dodge the long boring song pitfall he could still, IMO, create a great album. An outside producer could help here.
Of course he does, many. He's forgotten great albums while walking down some line. He's played some for certain individuals and then never recorded them. He could shit one out tomorrow and we'd all being asking how the fuck?! They're out there...
I love Bob Dylan's words including recent releases but the last time I enjoyed a live show of his was in 1999 . To my ears from 2003 to present his live shows are almost unbearable. Mark Knophler was way better than Dylan when he was opening for him. The only reason I didn't walk out was because of the fact that it's Bob Dylan and being in the presence of greatness. After the Frank Sinatra song tour I was really scratching my head.
Although he sounded great on Learning To Fly when he did that as a tribute to Tom Petty.
I agree with ateix post. Time Out Of Mind is Bob Dylan's late era masterpiece, and it's not likely that he has another powerhouse album of original songs that would rival the excellence of Time Out Of Mind. That was 21 years ago, and Dylan's voice and playing ability have significantly deteriorated since then. I'm not that into his crooner classics albums, but definitely glad he still makes music.
Floops, Local County Line, and a couple of others definitely get it. Bob Dylan is remiss from our judgment at this stage in the game. He's Bob fucking Dylan- a master of words and wisdom well beyond what any songwriter has ever recorded and released. I consider it an absolute honor and privilege each time I get to see him live.
Not to sound morbid, but it might take him getting the news that he's got IT and IT is taking him down, whatever IT may end up being, to get him to dig down and uncover more deep gold.
I know nothing about writing music, but it's been my observation that many people seem to think it's like turning on a switch, nothing more than simply deciding to write new music, and that just doesn't sound right to me.
It seems to me that the greatest art often comes from pain, it comes from looking into the unknown without a clue of what's there.
Maybe that's why so many great artists do their best work when they're young.
And when they're facing their own mortality.
But don't get me wrong...
LONG LIVE BOB DYLAN!!!
Even if that means lots more mediocre new material.
I remember In a 1987 Rolling Stone video interview, Lou Reed said he really liked what Dylan was doing then ('87) ," ...and he hasn't even gotten to some of the best stuff yet..."
That was a bit out of left field considering the mid-late 80's are probably Dylan's weakest period, but he was spot on about 'the best stuff' coming, because Time Out of Mind ranks (imo) as good as anything he did in the 60's or 70's - just different, but Bob latched on to something in '96/'97 (a health scare will do that), and kind of ran with it up until the Sinatra covers - but its kind of a logical progression.
So, does he have anything left to say? He seems to in interviews and is still working on Chronicles part 2, but does he have another Time Out of Mind or Blood on the Tracks for his golden years? He seems to have dealt with mortality issues (and Sinatra has plenty of tunes about that),but its an ongoing thing. Whether he decides to impart his wisdom with us through a musical medium, is anyone's guess.
it's the long, album filler songs that are the best ones! Never liked Joey really, but all the others, that's where the good stuff happens. Longer the better.
How about a new album with a 45-minute song?
I'd love to see Dylan drop some new material. I loved Tempest, most of it anyway, and if he could do a similar effort I'd be happy. He certainly has a few great ones left in him, if he wants. I have been a big fan of the Great American Songbook shit but I'm hoping it's run its course. Here's to some new material!
I keep reading this persistent idea here that somehow Dylan can drop a great album if/when he "feels like it".
That's pretty ridiculous, just for the fact that he's recorded and released albums fairly prolifically throughout his entire career; and yet if you do an honest take on his catalogue, you'll come to the conclusion that "greatness" hasn't exactly been in surplus for Dylan for a long time.
The gap between, say, Desire and Time Out Of Mind was over 20 years, and it's now been over 20 years since that album dropped. So, we're talking about 40 years of relatively mediocre work.
Obviously Dylan's status as a legend, and arguably the greatest songwriter EVER is beyond question; but keeping his work in perspective is important. He's not just waiting around for some special moment to wow the world with more truly great songs. He's putting out what he probably believes is his best stuff, and it really isn't that great.
I think what Dylan and his contemporaries (as well as countless other musicians over the past 50 years) have proven is that "the muse" is a fickle bitch indeed; and that by and large, songwriting is a craft that yeilds diminishing returns. Obviously there have been exceptions, but I think they only prove the rule.
Yea, I agree with most of St. Mark post too. I don't think Dylan is holding anything back or saving it for later, or ever did. Only a small amount of a creative artist's work can ever be relatively as good as somebody's best stuff, which we can only know in retrospect by comparing it to the less than best stuff. So artists must put their stuff out there, which must include the mediocre and shitty as well as the masterpieces.
I'd like to add that there were certainly a few great things from Dylan in between Desire and Time Out Of Mind. Early 1980s Infidels is one of my favorite Dylan albums from start to finish, and late 80s Oh Mercy has some great songs, which like Time Out of Mind was produced by Daniel Lanois. That interim period also included touring with Petty and Grateful Dead, which revved up Dylan's stagnating career at the time, and inspired the Never Ending Tour. At least in some way, Time Out Of Mind would not have been created as we know it, if not for what happened during "the days between".
Feeling especially grateful for the music of Bob Dylan and Jerry Garcia at the moment! Good thread.
R&RW is as stone classic Dylan as anything he’s done.
It pretty much blows my mind: Bob goes on tour and MOST of the setlist is almost ALL of his latest album. That takes balls, and it takes believing in your new work. Whoever doesn’t like it, don’t go to the show, he couldn’t care less. He’s as uncompromising and creative now as he’s been anytime over the past sixty years. No other rock artist of his generation is still out there pimping their NEW shit. Not the Stones, not the Who, not McCartney, not Neil Young, and not Weir or Lesh. They’re all out there playing, yes, but they’re playing their old shit, not playing their latest album top to bottom for the majority of their show... and their latest albums didn’t top the charts like Bob’s did.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
It wouldn't surprise me
It wouldn't surprise me
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
I don't believe so. Maybe
I don't believe so. Maybe with a really good outside producer who can get the best out of him, but that seems unlikely.
I just don't see a late period revival ala Johnny Cash for Dylan. Hope I'm wrong.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
If he wants to.
If he wants to.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
I was just thinking last
Mark, I was just thinking about that very thing last night, vis a vis the outside producer coming in, like Rick Rubin did with the American Recordings series for Johnny Cash. Dylan has been self-producing since Love & Theft, and seems to bristle at even the notion of outside production; I consider Time Out of Mind to be the best of his late-period albums and among the best of his entire career, and I chalk that up to how Daniel Lanois nailed the spooky, reverb-laden vibe of the whole session. For whatever reason Dylan has shunned the (outstanding) production quality of that Grammy-winner and has since opted to do it all himself. Unfortunately that means diminishing returns, because as good as some of the songs on Tempest are, the album is – at least in the scope of his almost six decades as an artist – a largely forgettable effort.
Can you imagine a Rick Rubin bringing in covers, or asking him to revisit his songbook? Not gonna happen, and that would be the path to a widespread commercial and critical reception.
Unfortunately I think we're probably just gonna get the rehash of the "Great American Songbook" ad nauseum, and if that makes him happy, that's great. He gave me Time Out Of Mind, he's still touring; I'm satisfied.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
all of his past few releases
all of his past few releases have been solid.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I liked bits of his more
I liked bits of his more recent albums. Ain’t easy do that shit, i bet
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
No.
No.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
We are blessed to be on the
We are blessed to be on the planet, the same time Bob Dylan has sung on it
If David Bowie was able to bang out one of his best as his final effort, Dylan sure will too.
No one closes show like Bob Dylan.
No one.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
A bunch of Dylan albums seems
A bunch of Dylan albums seems to have one long, boring song that keeps the album from being "great". Sad-Eyed Lady, Hurricane, Joey, Tempest, some others I can't recall at the moment. Hwy. 61 and Blood avoid this - no long boring songs; all the "lesser" songs support the truly great tunes rather than detracting from them. If Dylan can dodge the long boring song pitfall he could still, IMO, create a great album. An outside producer could help here.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: hooper
Album maybe.....
Album maybe.....
Sound good at a show........NO!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
MFW "Lady of the Lowlands" is
MFW "Lady of the Lowlands" is described as a 'long, boring song.'
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
Tastes vary. For me it's just
Tastes vary. For me it's just a long string of unrelated images squashed together. The music is OK, but when repeated ad nauseam...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
Amazing body of work.
Amazing body of work.
As far as I know, the English language has yet come up with words to describe it yet.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jazfish
Zevon hit that mark with ,The
Zevon hit that mark with ,The Wind.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
>>>Does Dylan have one last
>>>Does Dylan have one last great album in him?
Of course he does, many. He's forgotten great albums while walking down some line. He's played some for certain individuals and then never recorded them. He could shit one out tomorrow and we'd all being asking how the fuck?! They're out there...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: JP (J Bomb)
I'm leaning toward no as well
I'm leaning toward no as well. The songs are certainly at his command but he seems not to care.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Long, boring songs...
Long, boring songs... hurricane, Joey....
Hurricane and Joey are my favorite songs on Desire...Sara is a terrible closer, however.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Eggman
I love Bob Dylan's words but
I love Bob Dylan's words including recent releases but the last time I enjoyed a live show of his was in 1999 . To my ears from 2003 to present his live shows are almost unbearable. Mark Knophler was way better than Dylan when he was opening for him. The only reason I didn't walk out was because of the fact that it's Bob Dylan and being in the presence of greatness. After the Frank Sinatra song tour I was really scratching my head.
Although he sounded great on Learning To Fly when he did that as a tribute to Tom Petty.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Localcountyline
He was said to be recording
He was said to be recording with Don Was last year. We'll see if anything comes out of that.
If you think he can't sing live anymore you may not be paying close enough attention.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mr. Tofu Head
I agree with ateix post. Time
I agree with ateix post. Time Out Of Mind is Bob Dylan's late era masterpiece, and it's not likely that he has another powerhouse album of original songs that would rival the excellence of Time Out Of Mind. That was 21 years ago, and Dylan's voice and playing ability have significantly deteriorated since then. I'm not that into his crooner classics albums, but definitely glad he still makes music.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Eggman
I'm listening I promise.
I'm listening I promise.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: troubador
Floops, Local County Line,
Floops, Local County Line, and a couple of others definitely get it. Bob Dylan is remiss from our judgment at this stage in the game. He's Bob fucking Dylan- a master of words and wisdom well beyond what any songwriter has ever recorded and released. I consider it an absolute honor and privilege each time I get to see him live.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: thinthread
what floops said!!!!!!!!!!!!
what floops said!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Not to sound morbid, but it
Not to sound morbid, but it might take him getting the news that he's got IT and IT is taking him down, whatever IT may end up being, to get him to dig down and uncover more deep gold.
I know nothing about writing music, but it's been my observation that many people seem to think it's like turning on a switch, nothing more than simply deciding to write new music, and that just doesn't sound right to me.
It seems to me that the greatest art often comes from pain, it comes from looking into the unknown without a clue of what's there.
Maybe that's why so many great artists do their best work when they're young.
And when they're facing their own mortality.
But don't get me wrong...
LONG LIVE BOB DYLAN!!!
Even if that means lots more mediocre new material.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: DaBreeze
I remember In a 1987 Rolling
I remember In a 1987 Rolling Stone video interview, Lou Reed said he really liked what Dylan was doing then ('87) ," ...and he hasn't even gotten to some of the best stuff yet..."
That was a bit out of left field considering the mid-late 80's are probably Dylan's weakest period, but he was spot on about 'the best stuff' coming, because Time Out of Mind ranks (imo) as good as anything he did in the 60's or 70's - just different, but Bob latched on to something in '96/'97 (a health scare will do that), and kind of ran with it up until the Sinatra covers - but its kind of a logical progression.
So, does he have anything left to say? He seems to in interviews and is still working on Chronicles part 2, but does he have another Time Out of Mind or Blood on the Tracks for his golden years? He seems to have dealt with mortality issues (and Sinatra has plenty of tunes about that),but its an ongoing thing. Whether he decides to impart his wisdom with us through a musical medium, is anyone's guess.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: frenchiethetickler
He ain't dead yet.. therefor,
He ain't dead yet.. therefor, the potential for another great album exists...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
I appreciate the vote of
I appreciate the vote of confidence from two great Zoners.
I wish we could hear that real nasty divorce album he never recorded. Who knows that story?
How many songs do you think he lost before he could write them down?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Probably not that many
Probably not that many.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
You sound so confident.
You sound so confident.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hello My Name Is
it's the long, album filler
it's the long, album filler songs that are the best ones! Never liked Joey really, but all the others, that's where the good stuff happens. Longer the better.
How about a new album with a 45-minute song?
I'd love to see Dylan drop some new material. I loved Tempest, most of it anyway, and if he could do a similar effort I'd be happy. He certainly has a few great ones left in him, if he wants. I have been a big fan of the Great American Songbook shit but I'm hoping it's run its course. Here's to some new material!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
I do like Lily, Rosemary and
I do like Lily, Rosemary and Jack.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
That one could be turned into
That one could be turned into a movie.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
He’s been putting out cover
He’s been putting out cover albums for a reason....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Deadly
Did he run out of paper?
Did he run out of paper?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Deadly
But seriously, the Bard can
But seriously, the Bard can turn the faucet on and deliver a masterpiece when he so desires.
Maybe a little Heaven's Door whiskey will help!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
I keep reading this
I keep reading this persistent idea here that somehow Dylan can drop a great album if/when he "feels like it".
That's pretty ridiculous, just for the fact that he's recorded and released albums fairly prolifically throughout his entire career; and yet if you do an honest take on his catalogue, you'll come to the conclusion that "greatness" hasn't exactly been in surplus for Dylan for a long time.
The gap between, say, Desire and Time Out Of Mind was over 20 years, and it's now been over 20 years since that album dropped. So, we're talking about 40 years of relatively mediocre work.
Obviously Dylan's status as a legend, and arguably the greatest songwriter EVER is beyond question; but keeping his work in perspective is important. He's not just waiting around for some special moment to wow the world with more truly great songs. He's putting out what he probably believes is his best stuff, and it really isn't that great.
I think what Dylan and his contemporaries (as well as countless other musicians over the past 50 years) have proven is that "the muse" is a fickle bitch indeed; and that by and large, songwriting is a craft that yeilds diminishing returns. Obviously there have been exceptions, but I think they only prove the rule.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
He’s been putting out cover
He’s been putting out cover albums for a reason....
DING!
Winnah!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
Good stuff Mark. Well put.
Good stuff Mark. Well put.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mr. Tofu Head
Yea, I agree with most of St.
Yea, I agree with most of St. Mark post too. I don't think Dylan is holding anything back or saving it for later, or ever did. Only a small amount of a creative artist's work can ever be relatively as good as somebody's best stuff, which we can only know in retrospect by comparing it to the less than best stuff. So artists must put their stuff out there, which must include the mediocre and shitty as well as the masterpieces.
I'd like to add that there were certainly a few great things from Dylan in between Desire and Time Out Of Mind. Early 1980s Infidels is one of my favorite Dylan albums from start to finish, and late 80s Oh Mercy has some great songs, which like Time Out of Mind was produced by Daniel Lanois. That interim period also included touring with Petty and Grateful Dead, which revved up Dylan's stagnating career at the time, and inspired the Never Ending Tour. At least in some way, Time Out Of Mind would not have been created as we know it, if not for what happened during "the days between".
Feeling especially grateful for the music of Bob Dylan and Jerry Garcia at the moment! Good thread.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: frenchiethetickler
>>> I keep reading this
>>> I keep reading this persistent idea here that somehow Dylan can drop a great album if/when he "feels like it".
Big difference between "it could happen" and "on command". On command is a silly notion at best.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
Bootleg series...
Bootleg series...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
Willie Nelson & Bob Dylan.
Willie Nelson & Bob Dylan. "Willin' & Dylan".
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: JP (J Bomb)
To put a bow on this. He
To put a bow on this. He delivered with Rough and Rowdy Ways.
But does he have another?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
You'd better pawn it, babe.
You'd better pawn it, babe.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: fishcane
I dunno but I'm really
I dunno but I'm really looking forward to the time out of mind session bootleg series 17....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pride of cupertino
R&RW is as stone classic
R&RW is as stone classic Dylan as anything he’s done.
It pretty much blows my mind: Bob goes on tour and MOST of the setlist is almost ALL of his latest album. That takes balls, and it takes believing in your new work. Whoever doesn’t like it, don’t go to the show, he couldn’t care less. He’s as uncompromising and creative now as he’s been anytime over the past sixty years. No other rock artist of his generation is still out there pimping their NEW shit. Not the Stones, not the Who, not McCartney, not Neil Young, and not Weir or Lesh. They’re all out there playing, yes, but they’re playing their old shit, not playing their latest album top to bottom for the majority of their show... and their latest albums didn’t top the charts like Bob’s did.
Dylan really is the guy. Huge props.