The Future of Concert Sound?

your very own matrix mix...

now, if you had a way to capture that mix, hmmmm...

Wow the audience member can mix five separate tracks, I mean, why even have a sound guy any more? Just have an audience member mix the five tracks. Hopefully soon people will be able to run their own lights too. 

The Matrix and Quad sound concept is flawed.

Sound moves in waves & when they cross into each other-they cancel each other out - like two puddles crashing into each other- as opposed to a single uninterrupted single splash.

> when they cross into each other-they cancel each other out <

What? That is a rather highly simplified blanket statement. The waves have to have similar properties (phase, frequency, amplitude, etc) to effectively cancel each other out. 

Music -- solo or multi-instrumental, is way more complex than that. What's your point --- all multi source sound is "bad?"

If you are talking sound reinforcement, every indoor space reflects soundwaves (ok, there might be recording studios with super absorption).. some might interact "poorly" -- others might reinforce each other in a pleasing manner.  Even in outdoor situations there is reflection off surfaces. Obviously there are techniques used to manipulate audible parameters in either situation. Hence the subjective human (the soundman) being introduced as an active processor.

But rare to find only a mono "point" source being employed nowadays in real world situations....  And I don't think you can make music with a single splash.

Might as well just stay on couch tour.

I need to feel some air move to feel like I'm at a show.

They gonna pass out 15k headsets during the patdown?

>>And I don't think you can make music with a single splash.

Thanks for your interjection, while not insightful or paralleled to an acoustic science Stone Sculptor. Thanks any ways for your time to write that.

Man, Bluelight: every post of yours comes across as pilled-out to the max. Get an editor, or get clean. Jesus.

You are -a cyber-tool who has nothing better to do then troll me, for what little time I have to toy-with-you, t-Rx.

Blue - I had a long career as a holographer, author and consultant in the holography industry .. I know wave science.. so don't get all smarmy....( I just don't think Matrix or Quad is inherently flawed due to your half-ass wave cancellation theory. -- way too simplistic -- maybe something else.)

I recorded this recently using an interference pattern. It IS all about canceled waves (light instead of sound, but same principles).

It's an ultra high resolution 3D image taken with a pulsed laser, (i.e a hologram) of me carving stone. What have you made with canceled waves recently?

Lol. Sure, Bluelight. Go work on your latest youtube masterpiece that no one will ever watch.

I'm just saying: seek help.

Listen he is probably in the middle of compressing / decompressing truncated silence under the influence of 22 cups of coffee  and no food in days and no outside air, so I don't expect rational discourse -- I get the impression Bluelight can't be convinced of anything anyway, even if what he says might not obey the laws of physics.... His remixed tape or 9-20-70 sounded good on the little laptop speakers, but I can't pay attention to the visuals (unless it's the band). But how can you say it's restored -- restored to what? Do you have a master to use for calibration?

{HD Mini Movie created, edited, produced, entire movie’s analog tape recordings soundtrack immensely restored, Analog Tapes Elasticity Digitally Normalized and Balanced prior to its Restoration’s Pitch and Tempo realignment process, harmonics realigned - revitalized, remastered to 32-bit float {308kpbs final results}, deamplified, compressed - decompressed, reamplified, truncated silence, custom digital reverb incrementally applied, audio overdubbed, final remastered soundtrack overdubbed, and the final finished Mini Movie published by Bluelight}  

Go home & get your shine-box Carver ~

Jeff Beck at the Bluelight Early Show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHvuf52qY7M

Should I cross post back like you to YT?

>Go home & get your shine-box Carver ~<

BlueOD -Is this some sort of shoe-shine related insult directed at me? Why didn't you end it with "boy" for maximum effect?  I don't get it. Are you too good to shine your own shoes? Do you look down on shoe-shiners? Or are you still wearing the same smelly sandals you got at the Dave Van Ronk reunion shows in Greenwich Village in 1982 ( I know you were there because you've seen all the good shows.)  I'm going to actually read that comment in a goodnatured, teasing way because it seems kind of derogatory else-wise, you fuckhead. And I'll go home when I damn well please, thank you.

I generally don't "converse" on the Zone for this very reason, but one of the only things that I instinctively react to is when I read uneducated comments about the few things I know about  -- wave theory being one of them (fake holograms, another). I'm still easily trolled by that Princess Leia /Tupac hologram shit. Excuse me.

Back to your original point --The pros and cons of quad has been dissected ad nauseam over the years and you made a simplistic idiotic analogy without qualifiers that has no bearing on real world situations -- who listens to music in the direct center of a true quad system in an anechoic chamber when the sound source is a single continuous tone emitted from 4 equidistant point sources? With one ear? And if you are such an expert in the studio, I'm sure you are familiar with the 40 plus year old literature about mixing techniques for quad playback to avoid phase issues, if that's the problem you are referring to. I'll also refer you to Pete Townsend for his opinion on the matter -- but you obviously know best. And I don't really see the connection to Matrix, but that's another whole discussion related to micro-time shifting and wave coupling. I could go deeper with you on recording theory --  I'm a fan of true holographic sound, myself. I'll explain it to ya one day after you bone up on your high school physics.

>>>>>who listens to music in the direct center of a true quad system?

This has always been the problem with quad. Unless you're IN the band, you hear the music coming from in front of you. That's why "my" quad system design is different. Turn the listening plane 90 degrees so that the sound is perpendicular to it, like a wall in front of you with speakers at the four corners of the wall. Now the sound can seem to emanate from any point on that wall at any time. You could have a virtual array of instruments across the plane, with the low tones at the bottom and the highs at the top for each instrument. Or, you could swirl the sound all about. The possibilities are endless.

A friend reminded me that the mediocre drug-band Umphrees McGee already beat sir Elton John to the whole bad “listen to a live show on headphones” idea: http://www.umphreys.com/tour/headphones-snowcones/

https://youtu.be/KzNVsaRkeoM

Not sure if you can mix ALL FIVE channels, they might leave that to someone else. 

Wow some shots fired in this thread this is good stuff. 

“Truncated silence” - does that mean dead air was edited out? 

Thick air.

Check out Bob Heil's entertaining podcast about the development of early quad and the Who (Bob is a legendary Owsley-like figure in the sound industry and has links to the Dead). 

**************************************************************************

“A bloody lunatic, I’ll even carry your bags…” It started with a phone call to Bob Heil from Pete Townshend. “Can you build a quad sound system? I have an idea.” From that call, and subsequent visit to London, an artistic vision was transformed to something real that tens of thousands of fans could experience in a concert setting.

This was uncharted territory for both The Who and Heil Sound and the stakes were high. What Bob describes as “miles” of cabling had to be configured plus additional loudspeakers to be hung in the rear of the venue. More stage hands, more trucks, less time. And then there was that mixing console. Four outputs with quad panning for real time effects? As they say, the rest is history.

Check out the latest podcast where Bob talks about the challenges of doing The Who’s “Quadrophenia” Tour."

https://heilsound.com/heil-podcast/quadrophenia/

***************************************************************************

Personally, I think I'll go to Bob for recording theory, rather than some frenzied dude who stays up all night making cinematic versions of WinAmp visualizations to other people's music.

Alan going the extra mile. I’ll have to check out that podcast. 

Now you’ve done it Alan.  He’s going to call Homeland Security now.

I have no desire to mix my own sound at a show. With the investment I put into going to one, (tickets, food, drink, gas, tolls, parking, etc) I think I deserve a professional behind the soundboard doing that. 

My two cents. 

p.s. Using the long forgotten Dave Van Ronk reunion show troll is some seriously advanced zoning. I am in awe. 

Just an FYI -  In retrospect, I probably was inspired to deal with BlueOD's half-baked pontifications because I just finished reading the following book (great read for a cross county plane ride), The book discusses the Who in the early-mid seventies, so the quadraphonic sound discussion is fresh in my mind. Due to the title, I expected a bit more detail about the sex, drugs, and debauchery  --  but it was still an enjoyable summer read.

What You Want Is in the Limo: On the Road with Led Zeppelin, Alice Cooper, and the Who in 1973, the Year the Sixties Died and the Modern Rock Star Was Born  - by  Michael Walker - 2013

*********************************************************************

Also, the Bob Heil story is a good one - I had read of his exploits with the Grateful Dead, but never listened to his  other stories before and didn't realize how much he was involved with the development of concert sound. Today he makes microphones. I'm not much of a PodCast guy, but I found his interview pretty interesting and educational. In Podcast 6 he actually demonstrates the concept of  destructive interference that Blueguy was unsuccessfully alluding to.  If you are new to him:

"For concert sound pioneer Bob Heil, the Grateful Dead's "Truckin'" is more than a classic rock favorite. The song, which opened their five-show Fare Thee Well concerts on June 27, tells a personal story. Heil, as every Deadhead knows, was the audio expert the Grateful Dead turned to after the band was actually "busted down on Bourbon Street," an incident that found them at a subsequent concert stop with neither a soundman nor a sound system.....So, the Grateful Dead arrived at the venue the next day at loose ends. That's when Heil stepped in. A former teen organist at the theater where Jerry Garcia and company were slated to play, Heil had since become a local music shop owner. More importantly, he had recently salvaged the venue's former sound system for his own use. That meant Heil was in the right place at the right time to step in and provide sound for the Grateful Dead. Heil would soon play a big role in creating the Grateful Dead’s famous “Wall of Sound” and tour with the band in 1970. Ultimately, Heil helped create the template for modern-rock touring sound systems – and he still credits Paul W. Klipsch as an instrumental figure in his quick development as a sound and radio engineer.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/grateful-dead-truckin-bob-heil/

https://tapeop.com/interviews/btg/67/bob-heil/

****************************************************************************

Oh shit, Hoover you're right -- this the guy who knows the NSA"s Special Forces secret digital hit squad responsible for shutting down discussion boards that disparage mini-movie-makers worldwide. If I mysteriously disappear, please will all my remaining stone sculptures to TXR. Phil can use them for ashtrays in the backyard. All my holograms go to Blueguy, so he can be reminded everyday of the carnage he unleashed.

Glad I checked out this thread. Old man internet fighting about something no one cares about is always a treat for a second or two.

>>>Phil can use them for ashtrays in the backyard<<<

No smoking in the backyard.

It's California man.

"...ie-makers worldwide. If I mysteriously disappear, please will all my remaining stone ..."

While that's very important,  what about the Hüskies who(m)  were re-homed some months back ??

How are those Däwgies adapting to their new Home ?

I hope that they have a Cüshie Life and plenty of exercise.

My recollection is that you (Alan) found them (the Hüskies) a perfect Home where they could both be together.

That was pretty Cool.

Shit, do I sound old? Sorry. I am getting there, but I'm not old yet. Well, compared to some young people. Not anywhere near old-old. Old people ramble on about ...what were we talking about? Have you seen my glasses?

So how much more will ticket prices be?

At the Umphrees McGee shows it’s an extra $40 for headphone rental which also gets you a download of the show. Not sure about the Elton deal but you have to charge a decent amount or people won’t think it’s good, right? 

<How are those Däwgies adapting to their new Home ?>

Stu - I honestly haven't heard since the Sweet Young Couple adopted them. They had my number in case things didn't work out, so I'm assuming all is ok.

(I can't believe it's been a year... I have to scatter my sister's ashes soon... something I've never done before... hellava reason to visit Ocean City (MD), but that's what she wanted.)

Boring. 

If you want to separate the audience from the group experience, this is the way to go.

The commercial possibilities for concert headphones are endless -- one channel could air live commentary of the show -  "Look at how disinterested Billy seems..." (Bill Walton and Parrish will be all over this opportunity), one could  be used for advertisements  - "Get a matching kimono /fanny pack/ yoga pants ensemble just like the one John Mayer wears", one channel could broadcast "better" selections during pee-break songs (so long, Day Job), and if you're feeling a little tense from a certain drug combo coming on, one channel could play soothing "truncated silence" continuously.....

Ok I'l stop now.. have a good weekend all....

I like the idea of having one channel being dialog but I think one choice that might be popular is having one channel be the music and the other channel can be dedicated exclusively to your friends who can talk to you constantly over the music via a Bluetooth microphone  that will come as part of the package. 

THEN, those people can be slowly moved into the lobby while the show is taking place, sparing all of the sane people inside who came to hear the show, not on headphones. 

CHA-CHING 

I kinda like ears and finding the good spots.    I personally thank the dead for great sound over the years. I don't think Im ready to lose the audience either. Wait.  I *think* I just agreed with Thom about something.

See, there are still some things that can bring us all together, 

Like this bad idea that masquerades as a technological and live-concert sound-advancement that’s actually just another revenue stream in the never-ending quest to separate concert goers from more of their money. 

Alan, I stopped reading reading your non-sense 1St post in ~

But I want to be clear on a few things; I do not think your are a nice person at-all & although your patronage and pandering of your rocks is silly. They are rocks that you feel is art, but in reality they are still rocks- not art-in-any-way.

Your ( & Spike & Atiex's) insults to-me-the last few months have pushed me to the next-level - & I am now a "Millionaire" because of it ~

But before that I am an "Acoustic Scientist" who was interviewed by MIX Magazine & was the top-free-lance author at Pro-Sound Magazine for 5 years.

I have worked on Grammy Awarded records, but not just as an eng. - I helped-them rock it out.

Was in electronics for 27 years (own my own Rep-Firm) and was at the forefront of every significant high-tech-invention for 30 yerars.

Now I make HD Movies (can you see those Alan) for the Jerry Garcia Estate & Grateful Dead & others

It is so Shine-box time it's almost not-funny...

I am debating still how I am going to handle you (& your cross-post from YouTube) as I realize you do not know who-I-am-or my-powers.

7/20/2018

Bluelight ~

>>>>>as I realize you do not know who-I-am-or my-powers.

Lol.

or

Dude, get some help.

>>>>>>Now I make HD Movies (can you see those Alan) for the Jerry Garcia Estate & Grateful Dead & others

lol

>>>>>>>I am debating still how I am going to handle you (& your cross-post from YouTube) as I realize you do not know who-I-am-or my-powers.

Power of delusion 

Yeah, Do you knw how to count $

Take a long look around you surfdead, I will do the same.

I am in a 1.4 Million $ home right now. You?

4.1

>>>>>I am debating still how I am going to handle you (& your cross-post from YouTube) as I realize you do not know who-I-am-or my-powers.

Power of delusion<<<<

I will make my 1st move of proving this is not delusion at all. I am up for this NOW

But 1st- Alan need to look at if ist proper here at Viva to post my texts on YiouTube.

I will wait 3 hours on that - But I will retort. in a big way

>>>>>>I am in a 1.4 Million $ home right now.

All alone and pilled out of your gourd trying to make strangers on a dbmb jealous of you.  Sweet life.

8.7

I thought long & hard about Alan; but today is the day of redeeming.

Is that 1.4 on Zillow? I hear they over-inflate but that’s still great! Are you on Long Island? I hear the property taxes are brutal. 

Good job with the house though and the GD and Garcia connections that must be cool. 

>>>>>>I will wait 3 hours on that

are you suggesting you have a big announcement on a Friday at 2pm MST?

cause we’ve heard that one before.

>>All alone and pilled out of your gourd trying to make strangers on a dbmb jealous of you.  Sweet life.

St Jude's Hospital for the sick Children is my biggest fan

Marriott too ~

Not sure yo know this but my site is the only add-free site like it in the world...

I have a 1/2 Millions full views of my mini movies..

Makes Rolling Stone mag look like a joke~

What’s your website?

I like pills too btw I don’t know why they get such a bum rap 

>GD and Garcia connections that must be cool.

It really is.

Then as soon as I started working on Public domain silent movies; Warner Brothers is buying then up as fast as they can

I like Warner Brothers as a company; they bought me Bugs Bunny & Jerry too.

CBS - Sony are spot on-cool-too.

The Garcia Estate from what I now reading was encouraging this, but as you can see by the post here, many Dead Heads are out west & not HD Prime-time-ready.

Just finished up a pretty cool little HD mini movie.  It’s titled Dancing Steve Buscemi Face.  Enjoy and make sure to subscribe to my channel for other great HD mini movies.

https://youtu.be/pMsiUzXYq-Y

Subscribed.

I am pretty sure you have no idea what HD is & you and all around you are poking away on a Smart Phone on the way to a not-so-Smart-like-job.

Dancing Steve Buscemi Face has more views than Jeff Beck at Bluelight.  Just saying.

Brings a whole new meaning to searching for the sound...

We have an HD TV but it sounds like it might be different from what you guys have back east - can you explain HD? 

>>>>>>I am pretty sure you have no idea what HD is & you and all around you are poking away on a Smart Phone on the way to a not-so-Smart-like-job.

You have no idea who I am and how much power I wield.  I’m going to conference call David Geffen and Drake right now and we shall unleash our fury upon you like the crashing of a thousand waves!

>>>I am in a 1.4 Million $ home right now. You?

Surfdead, you've been Trump'd.  Biggly.

>>>>Just finished up a pretty cool little HD mini movie.  It’s titled Dancing Steve Buscemi Face.  Enjoy and make sure to subscribe to my channel for other great HD mini movies

did you do that yourself? 

What kind of programs do you need? I should get a laptop 

Oh Jezus -- look who just showed up at my doorstep demanding to repossess my modem... he reminded me that it's a federal crime (in Latvia) to challenge asinine statements on the Internet,.

Blue - What if I promise never to do it again? 

Opps.. sorry I didn't mention it before, but in a brilliant tactical move my crack legal team of Stooges, Stooges and Stooges has purchased the domain name "Bluelight mini-movies.dot com." They think you will be amenable to trading for this in the future, but the price will be expensive now that they know you are rich. We are still working to to trademark "Truncated Silence" as a band name  (maybe a John Cage style cover band)?

They are vicious defenders of free speech and are screenshoting this thread as we speak to record your veiled threats. I case you cross the line, Melania will be notified.

Even rich folks need psychiatric help from time to time.

My 5 acres is probably only worth about half a mil, but stuff is a lot cheaper here.

And the here is a lot nicer to look at here.

Half a million is nice too you people are doing well for a bunch of hippies 

yeah, but music... 

I rent an apartment :(

< I rent an apartment :(  >

Yet you still manage to live like a king!  As long as you have a roof over your head, an Internet connection, and an endless supply of mini-movies..... you're good.

Who says I live like a king? I think you might have me confused with someone who has a car and stuff. 

I like you though Alan and I like rocks and it sounds like you know what you’re talking about so please don’t make a meme or PowerPoint slide about me. I like The Who. 

So this one was had some hiccups.  Dana Carvey signed off right away but Mike Meyers was a total dick.  Finally got some pressure on him and he signed off.

Enjoy

https://youtu.be/gh8uiJdvU9Q

Bucky Bucky..... remember we're hippies... material things don't matter... stuff just gets in the way.......it's ok not to be a corporate shill working all day for the almighty dollar....money is the root of all evil.......relax, put your feet up on a cardboad box, and freak freely -- As the kids say...it's all good.  

Have you seen the keys to the Lambo?

Dana Carvey<<<

Always dig his Neil Young impression.

>>Oh Jezus -- look who just showed up at my doorstep

Poz?