Shooting at Denver "Patriot" Rally

Our neighborhood Facebook page this morning said the militia dudes were meeting up at Bass Pro before heading downtown. Apparently they did. 

The story, with a video of the scene...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fatal-shooting-in-denver-amid-dueling-...

Everybody is absolutely certain.

Everybody is out of their mind.

Is shooting patriots anti-fascist?

I get that many security guards are "wanna be cop" types, but this seems way over the top for anything along those lines.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the odds of the shooter living very long is not that great.

Aaron Hernandez sighting?...

The guy who was shot is in several photos holding a can of mace and arguing with different people like he just can't wait to use it on someone. No takers his size so he hits, then sprays a harmless middle aged looking Pinkerton. Oops.

Not so sure he was the harmless Pinkerton . 

I was playing music with friends. Outside, 12 acres, aspens gold, dogs on the loose. It was a good day for my people. Sorry things got ugly down there. Stay grounded people. 

MAGA fascist assaulted TVCrew and their security guard acted in self defense.  Alternatively, 'the enemy of the people' shot a patriot. 

We should all carry guns for self defense because some people don't deserve to live. 

If you can't do your job reporting on an event without being assaulted because the President labeled you the 'enemy' and need to hire a security detail, then check back with us. 
 

If that's something a pool cleaner encounters, let us know

I hired a murderer to protect me because I know my job must get done for the the health and safety of the whole community. 

pool cleaning isn't a constitutional right, try again.

however, if your were peacefully doing your job and someone assaulted you with pepper spray you would still have every right to defend yourself.

Have you been physically threatened at work? assaulted for just doing your job? 

Pool Cleaners are the enemy of the people?

Homeowners without masks put my life in jeopardy. They can call my work and my work will message me. Keep your germs in the house or my security will shoot. 

Not so sure he was the harmless Pinkerton . 

Harmless looking, as in the the nazi guy went after the guy who was half his size.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the odds of the shooter living very long is not that great.

Pinkertons aren't exactly rent a cops. I'd take that bet. 

If I were a betting man, I'd say the odds of the shooter living very long is not that great.

Pinkertons aren't exactly rent a cops. I'd take that bet<<<

Was the disproportionate response reflective of a professional?

If not, then he may have been a hack.

However, if he was not a hack, then why the disproportionate response?

Might he be a provocateur?

Was the disproportionate response reflective of a professional?

It was reflective of a professional Pinkerton. That's kind of their M/O historically speaking. 

I don't know that lethal force was needed, but considering the Pinkerton agency's track record (google them) I'd say the nazi brought pepper spray to a gun fight with a highly trained marksman.

Hard to say for sure but considering two guns were recovered from the scene he might have been drawing on the Pinkerton. Pinky seems to be pointing at something under the nazi's vest when the nazi smacks his face in the first photo.

If you look at the photo taken during the incident it appears the nazi was reaching for a weapon as he was engaging the mace. 

.

If you look at the photo taken during the incident it appears the nazi was reaching for a weapon as he was engaging the mace<<<

That's certainly plausible.

My favorite tactic in a snowball fight is to lob one high and have a second one ready to go for a straight line shot.

If you look close at that last photo you can see the discharged shell just above the gun. And that may be the bullet entering his right sunglass eye. Zapruder frame here for sure

Then again, maybe the nazi is clutching his pearls in that pic. Oh my.

Bear mace and knuckle dusters on both fists. Dead nazi got exactly what he came for.

MAGA

The detail in the photo series is insane for sure. The look on Pinky's face is chilling. Zero hesitation, he didn't even stop to fix his shades. Uncanny that the last words the nazi guy probably heard were "Fuck around and find out" from a guy wearing a Black Guns Matter t-shirt.

Bear mace and knuckle dusters on both fists. Dead nazi got exactly what he came for.

If his fb shares like the one above are an indicator of his values, I'd have to agree.

https://www.facebook.com/twis.ted.1671?fref=search&__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid...

Nancy and BSS supporting death by gun, amazing.  

Is this what happened: a nazi dude assaulted a rent-a-cop. As the nazi started to pepper spray, and perhaps reach for a gun, he took a bullet to the head?

Oh look it's creepy racket supporting fascism racism bootlicking and idiocy again

at least he's consistent

I'm surprised they haven't turned this into a reality TV show...  oh, wait...?

(woe to the republic)

I don’t think it’s supporting to point out that he got what he was seeking. I mean It’s pretty unlikely that stringtwangs choice of activities yesterday was  going to lead him into a similar set of circumstances.

He Should’ve stayed home and made more cowboy hats and enjoyed his freedom to do so

Armed and violent Nazi v The Press.

I'm rooting for the free press. Well, actually their armed guard who was hired to keep them safe from fascists and police.

Yes, the Nazi got exactly what he deserved.

Bss just another burnout, with phony tolerance.  

Nazi sympathizer is a wanker. ^

 

We should go easy on the troll, he's mourning the death of his brethren 

sorry about your nazi friend man

But I would've double tapped

I'm all for armed Nazis getting capped. My great grandfather took out one or two Brown Shirts in the slums of East London. My grandfather sent a couple of Nazis through the front window of his bar, and straight to the hospital. I'd hope that I have the balls to do the same.

“Anti fascism? You bet!” Not sure why it’s Become such a taboo thing to be against fascism 

^Because the President is an aspiring fascist?

Pinkerton's claim to fame is union busting and doing stuff the cops can't, but in this case I think it was self defense. I wish I hadn't posted the nazi guy's facebook page though, there's some very graphic meme's there. If you haven't looked, don't. If you did look, I apologize, shit's dark over there.

I did look. He looks like a dirty pervy old man that likes bikers and hates dims and libtards. I didn't really see any Nazi stuff.

My bad. I don't know what to call that and nazi seemed to suit him. The comments and memes posted on his fb in the last 24 are what I was referring to as dark fwiw. I didn't dig past his cartoon share.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pinkertons-maim-frank-and-je...

GD content, Charley Ford was Robert Ford's brother who set up Jesse James and shot him in the back. No known affiliation to the Pinkerton Agency, but a very loose Tennessee Jed reference

There were lots of people all around where it happened, so once the eyewitness accounts & more details are heard we'll know more about who to hate here.

Reports are that two guns were found on the scene. If one of them was on the dead guy, especially if it was holstered on his chest where it looks like he was reaching for something, then Mr. Security guy may get off the hook, by self-defense.

Either way, thank goodness for guns, because without them what would protect us from the guns?

Thanks for swooping in and mansplaining what I already said with pictures and stuff. J/K I'm just grateful for the brevity of your post. ;-)

First of all,  lots of people here believe and repeat what the Mass Media says.  There is no law saying that they have to tell the Truth.  Actually it's perfectly legal for Mass Media to say whatever they like.

They can say that Monkeys fuck Leprechauns and have Poodle offspring,  and it's perfectly legal.  Most people will believe it,  if they repeat it often enough. 

Secondly,  the Nazi Party lost WW II back in the 1940's.  There are not any of those people still around. My Dad was over in Europe blowing them up,  and he died of old age some years back.

All of the Nazi dudes have died by now,  or even if they moved to Argentina,  have dropped Dead.

1945 -> 2020 ;; that is about 75 years.  If you were a 18-20 year old military person,  you're Dead or near that now.

Haha

Obviously you don't watch The Hunters on Amazon Prime.

Believe it or not, Stu, but there are NEW Nazis, born after the war that defeated them. Crazy, I know, but I've met a few. They say you can't kill a good idea, but apparently you can't kill a bad one either.

Stu is a time capsule.

Stu has a dog and has calluses. He knows better than the rest of us.

Who knows? Maybe those swastika flags and tattoos are just the Hindu symbol, and they are "good people." Maybe those swastikas and anti Semitic chants are just fake news. Maybe those 2,100 anti Semitic acts of violence, vandalism and harassment in 2019, a 12% rise over 2018, were just lies perpetrated by the Jewish media.

I guess a hermit who lives in a shack would know better than he experts.

Hardly suggesting that nazi ideology has disappeared - by any stretch; however, weren't actual nazis intimately tethered to both hitler and Germany?

Today's Nazis are still tethered to Hitler. They fly the swastika, they have the exact same ideologies, they name their kids "Adolph Hitler," they call themselves Nazis.

Yeah, any way you spin it, they are Nazis. It's really not that complicated.

Admittedly, I use fascist and nazi pretty much interchangeably.
 

The differences are really just a few trivial little tweaks on ethnonationalism but they are all equally worthless.

Today's Nazis are still tethered to Hitler. They fly the swastika, they have the exact same ideologies, they name their kids "Adolph Hitler," they call themselves Nazis.

Yeah, any way you spin it, they are Nazis. It's really not that complicated.<<<

Is hitler still alive?  Are the actions of today's "nazis" subject to what hitler and his hierarchy might do in retaliation for disobedience? 

This is an important distinction and not trying to spin anything.  

What exactly is an important distinction? Are you implying that Germany's Nazis didn't have a choice, which makes them different than those today who are doing it willfully?

I'm really not sure what the big picture is that you're trying to get at. 

yeah

What he said

I remember reading an article

in which Ivanna Trump stated

That The Orange one kept a book of

Hitlers speeches near his bedside.

Non fake news...

I wish restaurants would open so Faceonmars could go back to giving his stupid opinions on them

What exactly is an important distinction? Are you implying that Germany's Nazis didn't have a choice, which makes them different than those today who are doing it willfully?

I'm really not sure what the big picture is that you're trying to get at<<<<

No, everyone had a choice; even if some were difficult.

How is the distinction between an iteration of a particular ideology removed by several generations vs. the original implementation of such not readily apparent?

Consider the mentality of a southern slaveholder in 1860 vs. someone today who might "fit the profile" today;  would there not be a huge gap between the real experiences of what made the former the real mccoy vs. the would-be version of today?  Do you really believe they'd be "the same" if you were somehow able to encounter each of them?

word salad for lunch-zone

FOM still has philosophical issues with the Spork.

FTR:  I'm hardly discounting the vileness and danger of neo-nazis or any variant thereof.  I'm simply agreeing with Stu as a historical point of fact.

Correct, we're not talking about vileness and danger or whatever.

If you want to come in here and argue that nazism doesn't exist, (perhaps because stu's dad blew them all up), and then proceed to make that the basis of a rational discussion, then you're as dumb as he is.

Yeah, I really believe that modern Nazis would like to wipe me off the face of the Earth, just as the German Nazis did to my ancestors.

I'll err on the side of caution when it comes to Nazis.

You've got a unique take on cultural relativism going, and it's not one that I understand or care to understand. 

Face, have you read "The Mezzanine" yet?

Yeah, I really believe that modern Nazis would like to wipe me off the face of the Earth, just as the German Nazis did to my ancestors.

I'll err on the side of caution when it comes to Nazis.

You've got a unique take on cultural relativism going, and it's not one that I understand or care to understand<<<

Perhaps you've made some false assumptions and ought to try to understand, for I share the same target on my back as yourself and your ancestors.

If you review my "pandemic reading list" (page 3 in particular), you will find I don't take the topic lightly:

http://ratdog.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=347967

Again, from a purely academic point of view, I don't believe there are very many actual nazis (in a literal sense) still living today; nor do I believe Stu was engaged in cultural relativism (but I can't be certain).   What he posted would not have been my first thought on the topic (nor did my father fought in the war), but I didn't believe the pile-on is necessarily fair.   Perhaps he could expound how feels about those who currently believe in nazi ideology?

Personally, I believe there are far too many people who are keeping the nazi ideology going  (one is too many)  and also generally err on the side of caution.

They call themselves Nazis. Who am I to disagree?

First century Christians were very different than 4th c Christians, and are all very different than today's Christians. They're still all Christians.

yeah, I get that ... and suspect you likely don't use a sheet with a hole in it

but are we really to equate nazism with religion?

No equation at all. It could be Communists of 100 years ago vs today, or anything. I just used religion as one.

Balcony boy wants to be dictator like his heroes 

unprecedented 

hitlerish???? Yes

https://news.yahoo.com/taking-page-authoritarians-trump-turns-151748832....

Balcony boy<<

Andrew Lloyd Webber's

Covita

Live in DC (Limited Engagement)

No equation at all. It could be Communists of 100 years ago vs today, or anything. I just used religion as one<<<

I see your point and not looking to dispute how the ideology remains contiguous over time.

In giving Stu the benefit of the doubt, I was suggesting there is a "proper noun" usage of the term that specifically references its origins vs. a more colloquial use as it has evolved to cover a much wider range of meaning in modern language.

I get all that, but if they call themselves Nazis, fly the swastika, have pics of Hitler in their living room, and profess dire hatred for non Aryans, they are Nazis.

So BK this guy that was shot point blank in Denver fits that description?  Links please.

I'm talking about Nazis in general, Racket, and was responding to Stu's contention that there are no Nazis. It's have no idea about the dude in Denver. 

I get all that, but if they call themselves Nazis, fly the swastika, have pics of Hitler in their living room, and profess dire hatred for non Aryans, they are Nazis<<<

I get where you're coming from and have also used the word in the same way as a practical matter in reference to those I believe warrant it, but why the term "neo-nazi"?

Very plausible non- ayran Nazis are in today's world. 

Maybe now would be a good time for disco stu to clarify his position? 

Cuz adding “neo” to a word makes it buzz and hipsters love their buzz words

Apologies.   Cross posting 

what does  the term neoliberals mean to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

I do not have a good feel for the definition .. are all forms of capitalism bad?  (I expect Javs to provide a well written response : perspective 

i see it tossed around here often

With strong derogatory connotations

LLTD, to the best of my understanding, the neoliberal philosophy states that everything can be managed and operated more efficiently and effectively if it is considered a monetizable commodity. For example, government-run public education is inefficient in terms of spending on teachers, materials, etc. If we think of it as a business we can start to see where we can minimize costs, maximize profits and make operations more effective and efficient. 

Here in Chile the example is taken to the extreme. Water flowing down from rivers to the ocean is wasted water in economic terms. Therefore, the most reasonable thing to do is to privatize water rights so that corporations that need that water can manage it in the most efficient and effective way possible. 

The problem with the logic is:

a) It doesn't take into account human emotional/spiritual/cultural needs, which are not often profitable in an economic sense. Museums are not generally profitable, nor should they be (IMO). So in a neoliberal perspective, rather than think of a museum as a valuable cultural asset which must be funded and run by the government, you would open up the management of the museum to a private bidding and then the winning company would manage the museum, charging as they see fit to make sure it is profitable.

b) It doesn't take into account hidden costs, mostly environmental costs. Sure, the cost of petrol to get a ship from China to San Fran is X dollars, so in a spreadsheet all you need to calculate is how much your shipping cost is and factor it in. End of story. In reality, there are several hidden environmental and human costs. Environmental damage and corporate warfare to extract the petrol. Ship polluting in the ocean. Underpaid slave-wage sailors on the ship and factory overseas. Etc. So the neoliberal equation only takes into account visible factors, thus creating a shield behind which to feign ignorance and lack of responsibility for environmental and ethical responsibilities.

c) Finally, by placing the priority on profit as the indicator of efficiency and effectiveness, it creates an incentive for capitalist competition and hoarding of resources. What do I mean? Imagine you are in a ship leaving from San Francisco back to China. You know that you have to set your course on a certain bearing. If your course is off by 1º, it won't make much difference now, but after 10 miles, 100, 1000, the difference is huge. The same thing is true for the economic disparity that neoliberalism creates. Even though you are raising the income and standard of living of the lower classes (debatable anyways)  you are raising the income and quality of life of the ruling class by a much larger proportion. This is not an accident - this is part of the planned equation. We make the cake bigger and bigger over the year and you keep getting a smaller and smaller percentage of the cake. Only you don't notice so much because you're still getting more than before. But after 10, 20, 30, 40 years, the disparity becomes such that the gap becomes hard to ignore and sows the seeds for social discontent.

So, the short term benefits of neoliberal economics have already run dry. In the case of developing nations, if used responsibly (ha) neoliberal policies can provide a good stepping stone to a more stable economy, but in other circumstances only leads to oligarchical disparity and the founders of this philosophy and those who understand this knew this all along. And they just got richer and richer and supported dem candidates and rep candidates, and now here you are...

Thank you Javs     well written as expected

-My overall high level reaction is that anything in the extreme 100% black or 100% white is pure folly, and that somewhere along the continuum is "best" at a given point in time ( this applies across most things in life )   >> Relationships and life require compromise. 

>> Pushing towards your ideals and values is indeed admirable. ( and the "right" thing to do ).

>>Extremism may not be the most effective approach to discourse ( and I am often guilty as I do "hate" Republicans for how much I feel that hey sacrifice ( ethics, honesty, compassion ) in supporting their chosen leader to accomplish what their goals are ( other than hating dems ). Guns, Gays, Abortion, an underemphasis on science, climate change and raping the earth for future generations;   an overemphasis on religion/  and their religion of choice, isolationism, Nationalism, and in my opinion racism.... need I go on?

I do not understand how / why some zoners "accuse" other zoners of being neolibs  - it seems so out of context (lashing out at those disagreeing in the shade of black / white they espouse?)

and yes we have our resident  geographically convenient crackpot whackadoodle spouting God knows what in his best condescending deadier than thou {absurd at it's foundation, false and unprovable) voice. .....should be worth a laugh what the hell     but best ignored with LOLs, scrolling past and like water rolling off the back - but with far less value, or basis in being a human 

and now a few neophyte whackadoodles .are being more vocal as well - should be entertaining in it's absurdity

cant wait till the next three weeks are over - it will be interesting to watch indeed  desperate times inspire desperate actions - the despot inn cheif  will have his his foot to the floor careening all over the track

be safe all