ODs @ DSO

Word of mouth?

That's crazy.

http://www.dsoforums.net/forum/topic/20678-penns-peak/

Something fucked up happened but I'm not going to believe the fentanyl laced vape pen story just yet.

Passing a joint around used to be part of the community vibe. Now it's just a possible path to a bad trip.....or herpes. 

I can't go to concerts.

What in wooknation? 

"But Penns Peak.... that is like a DSO Holy Ground.  THIS IS A WAKEUP CALL TO OUR COMMUNITY!!!!

We TRAVEL over 6 hours to Penns Peak and get hotel room because we LOVE THAT BARN....

Thanksgiving Eve precludes that usually so we go to the Spring show."

>>>>Penns Peak.... that is like a DSO Holy Ground.

a reason I considered going, cool venue

“It’s the touch heads and dead co fans that have ruined the dso scene” - Tiger of the dso forum 

people who accept any kind of drug from a stranger at a show that they did not submit to reagent testing and cannot be positively ID'ed as either raw cannabis flower or psilocybe cubensis(ONLY cubensis...others are not grown commercially and have deadly lookalikes) are absolutely insane.

i wont even take joints from strangers...that was fine 20 years ago but now there is so much weird shit that could be in that joint if a dishonest person fails to mention it, or even just accidentally grabs the wrong joint from their pocket. the chance of something like that happening is probably almost zero, but it does not seem worth it to me just to engage in what is at this point basically just a social custom, weed is plentiful and cheap enough now that nobody needs to be bumming hits of crowd joints just to get stoned at a show.

now, the claim of a fentanyl laced vape pen is suspect but not at all impossible. fentanyl can be smoked or vaporized, its known to be soluble in propylene glycol, and there are some credible news reports that fentanyl is big in PA.

but, the onset of action for smoked fentanyl is SUPER fast, much faster than cannabis. its similar to DMT in that regard, where if you take a good rip with enough fent to get high in it, you will be close to the peak of the high by the time you hold the hit in for a bit and then exhale.

so if a fentanyl user loads up some PG with fent and makes it into a cart, it generally wont be strong enough to kill a person with one hit. unless the guy is totally out to lunch and just dumps some in...but this is unlikely. it takes at least a marginal amount of intelligence to obtain the materials, properly dissolve the fent in PG and load up the carts with a syringe. anybody who can make a fent vape pen is most likely smart enough to at least crudely measure out an amount that will not kill the average person. so theoretically, almost any fent containing vape pen will not be able to kill a person in a single hit.

so now lets say someone is at a show with a fent vape pen, and someone asks for a hit thinking it is cannabis. almost anybody who isnt already obliterated by alcohol or other strong drugs will know by the time they exhale that something is different about that vape pen. there would be absolutely no mistaking it unless you are shit faced drunk. within seconds you will have a very distinct feeling in your face and throat, have trouble keeping your eyes open, and likely start to become nauseous. even if you dont know what opiates feel like, you will know something is VERY wrong if you were just expecting cannabis or nicotene.  

the chances of a fent vape pen being dosed high enough to kill someone in one hit OR someone not realizing it has fentanyl in it after a single hit and then vaping enough to OD are EXTREMELY slim. its possible, but chances are slim.

the "death from one hit of a fent laced vape pen" is already an urban myth that has already garnered media attention.

https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/news/b-c-mayor-tells-urban-myth-of...

so while its totally possible a bunch of people died from vaping fentanyl, chances are strong that they knew what they were ingesting, and unsuspecting normal heads expecting cannabis were probably not killed.

another interesting thing to note, is that there are fentanyl analouges so potent that they have been used as chemical weapons in gassings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

The Moscow theater hostage crisis (also known as the 2002 Nord-Ost siege) was the seizure of a crowded Dubrovka Theater by 40 to 50 armed Chechens on 23 October 2002 that involved 850 hostages and ended with the death of at least 170 people. The attackers, led by Movsar Barayev, claimed allegiance to the Islamist separatist movement in Chechnya.[1] They demanded the withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya and an end to the Second Chechen War.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis#Chemical_attack

Early in the morning before dawn, at around 5:00 .M Moscow time, the searchlights that had been illuminating the main entrance to the theater went out.

Inside, although many hostages at first took the gas (aerosol) to be smoke from a fire,[34] it soon became apparent to gunmen and hostages alike that a mysterious gas had been pumped into the building.[35] Different reports said it came either through the specially created hole in the wall, that it was pumped through the theater's ventilation system, or that it emerged from beneath the stage. The security services pumped an aerosol anaesthetic, later stated by Russian Health Minister Yuri Shevchenko to be based on fentanyl,[36] into the theater through the air conditioning system. The discovery caused panic in the auditorium. Hostage Anna Andrianova, a correspondent for Moskovskaya Pravda, called Echo of Moscow radio studio and told on-air in a live broadcast interview that the government forces had begun an operation by pumping gas into the hall:

It seems to us that the Russians have started something. Please, give us a chance. If you can do anything, please do! ... I don't know which gas it is. But I see [the Chechens'] reactions. They don't want our deaths, and our officials want none of us to leave alive! I don't know. We see it, we feel it, we are breathing through our clothes. ... It began from outside. That's what our government has decided — that no one should leave from here alive. ....

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_hostage_crisis_chemical_agent

Two days after the incident, on October 30, 2002, Russia responded to increasing domestic and international pressure with a statement on the unknown gas by Health Minister Yuri Shevchenko.[2] He said that the gas was a fentanyl derivative,[3] an extremely powerful opioid. Boris Grebenyuk, the All-Russia Disaster Relief Service chief, said the services used trimethyl phentanylum (3-methylfentanyl, a fentanyl analog that is about 1000 times more potent than morphine, which was manufactured and abused in the former Soviet Union); New Scientist pointed out that 3-methylfentanyl is not a gas but an aerosol.[4]

Clothing samples from British survivors of the attack showed the presence of the narcotics remifentanil and carfentanil. The same study detected norcarfentanil in another survivor's urine.

so, theoretically, if a fentanyl vape pen is does high enough to kill an opiate naive person, simply hitting the vape pen in a crowded concert hall could get people around you high. probably not enough to be dangerous, but high. tolerance to fentanyl builds FAST, and while its unlikely this would be intentionally shared with strangers, its possible a highly tolerant addict could prepare a fent vape pen that is strong enough to get other people high with second hand vapor, but that he can hit over and over again due to his sky high tolerance.

having the intelligence to prepare a strong fent vape pen means again, that its unlikely to be accidentally shared, but contact high from secondhand fentanyl vapor in a crowded concert hall, while probably not deadly, is very possible.

so they were snorting coke or heroin or k laced with fentanyl is what you’re saying? right before thanksgiving? 

whats wrong with these people 

and that tiger person in the dso thread is AB-SO-FUCKING-LUTELY full of shit.

i would also add that both fentanyl and k when properly dosed, pure and uncut, are pretty fun.

Most likely either fentanyl or carfentanil in a batch of h or c.  Carfentanil is extremely dangerous.

"I would also add that both fentanyl and k when properly dosed, pure and uncut, are pretty fun"

Carfentanil is extremely dangerous.

from what i hear its one of the worst. it has a shorter duration than fentanyl, but on top of that the euphoria only lasts about 5 or 10min while the drug effect lasts 30min to 1hr, so there is a compulsion to redose every 10min or so, but the drug is still active and can still contribute to respiratory depression up to 1hr after using it, so it feels like you need another line or shot or whatever, but the drug is still causing respiratory depression. nasty stuff. 

So did people die? 

thank you, Larry ​Longballs, for your insight and contribution 

Daylight's good at drugs.

He knows his sushi & pho as well.

its fucking ramen LANCE

the dso forums thread is good for several eye rolls. now i know what band the woo woo crystal hippies of the GD scene are flocking to in recent years.

i think what takes the cake tho, in a post about fellow phans DYING FROM OPIATE OVERDOSES, is this post;

But what really bothers me is that the venue only had 2 single doors for entry and really needs to be addressed. They knew it was a sellout and should have added extra staff to get us all in on time. An hour+ to get in is total bullshit..

an unknown number of deaths due to overdose, but what really bothers me is that i had to stand in line to long. jesus christ.  

It's fucking 'too' DAYLIGHT!

And Raman, Pho; what's the difference????

Noodles are noodles, amiright?

Fuckin' bliss ninnies.

BTW, really a bummer of a story, but going to a drug band show has ALWAYS had a touch of risk involved.

That's what makes it rock 'n roll.

Be careful out there people.

im hearing reports now that it may have only been 2 or 3 people who didn’t know they were smoking DMT 

DSO should of kept playin.

Bring back the Rock Medics

Over an hour to get in? That shit is ridiculous.

>>>> Over an hour to get in?

but only one toke to get off.

"It took me over an hour to get my free hit of DMT!"

nodding out is fun? lame. 

aren't the wait times notoriously long at the DMT?

Did they let DSO finish Truckin' or stop it mid-song?  It would be kind of cool if they performed a show with a Truckin' opener at their next gig.

"What in the world ever became of Sweet Jane?

All you can say is she ain't exactly the same.

Livin' on reds, vitamin C and vape pens,

all a friend can say is "ain't it a shame".

oh shit that DSO thread has devolved into Phish fans yelling at DSO fans and the DSO fans wondering if they’ve been invaded by Phil zone trolls 

they aren’t even in mourning 

I've heard about dmt vape pens before, is that really a thing?

I usually just pack some on top of some herb and roast.. not the most efficient use of the material.. I imagine a vape pen is a good approach though.

>>>>I've heard about dmt vape pens before, is that really a thing?

yes some of the more entrepreneurial wooks are making them it’s not store bought 

>>> I've heard about dmt vape pens before, is that really a thing?

yes. a guy wanted to trade me one for a bunch of prints last summer. 

i should have done it.

I’d buy one for sure. Probably two. I’ve never tried it. 

Fentanyl & Carafetanyl=Dumb Shit Opioids

yes some of the more entrepreneurial wooks are making them it’s not store bought  <<<<

Terrible ! SCREW DMT Crap !

I’d buy one for sure. Probably two. I’ve never tried it. <<<

STOP Right There Bucky B - RIGHT NOW. As In NO !

what’s wrong w/ dmt, plf?

plf is just jealous the elves wont let him in until his grammar improves

first its dmt, then its deep fried oreos, then finally you graduate to motorboat, join the GD cover band festie circut and your life just becomes a giant fractal furthur fest...its just kimonos all the way down

now I want to try it even more. what’s so bad about it plf? 

Maybe the DSO should Refund ticket holders.

DMT...Just as crazy as
PCP...Not as creamy as
POT
XTC
LSD...Why don't you and me, Girl.

Can you od on dmt?

Asking for a friend.

The pen way seems like a decent tool. I don't know what I'm talking about though naturally...

afaik there isnt a definitive answer for human overdose of DMT but the ld50 in rodents has been reported between 32mg/kg IV in one study and 110mg/kg IM from erowid, which for a 160lb person that would be 2.320g injected IV or 7.975g injected IM. those are two conflicting reports, not different, exact values for IV vs IM injection. the weight you would need to smoke would be much, much higher than that to account for dmt being exhaled, loss due to heat, burning while not hitting it, and slower onset of effects. 

Good grief.

Should we start calling daylight Dr. daylight?

Wow if that forum is any indication of the brain cells actively operating in DSO-ville.... Wow. Blaming "touch heads" for the bad drug problem LOL. At least someone pointed out that those folks are late 40s early 50s.

Maybe they should ban camping in the parking lots and ban vending too

Ban the shows too.

Someone posted their three favorite bands. 

JGB 

Grateful Dead

Jewel

I fucking spit up my coffee when I read that

I like her version of that busy sleigh ride x-mas song.

I'm with String. Did they die?

>>>Jewel is pretty good

She can yodel

I appreciate your insights and knowledge you share, Daylight.  Happy travels.

Honestly i Don't Even Know What DMT Is.

I tried DMT once at the '86 Kaiser Chinese New Year-Mardi Gras-Valentine's Day run (I think I tried it on the Mardi Gras night, but 32 years later, it's a little hazy).  We just smoked it on top of some buds and held the hit in for a while.  It was like 30 minutes of intensely tripping with little gnomes flashing in and out.   I ate a lot of mushrooms that night too.  Those were the days.

used to get n,n dmt, gorgeous stuff. i’d use a paper clip to dip the tip and dust a calyx of herb-rip and float away, the high lasted for 2.5 to 3 hours. besides some very special lsd crystal, this was the most beautiful drug i’d ever come across. just pure hallucinations for 3 hours. lovely. 

going from sober to tripping balls in less than a couple minutes is really something. 

For drug addicts. Get a grip, people. Take a day off or something. 

sounds like a fun time ogkb. I haven’t understood some of the things in this thread but it’s been a good read anyway. 

Some new info, apparently it was a couple of people in their late 40’s who had a bad reaction to some edibles. So they could very well have been touch heads. Hence the anger within the DSOC (dso community).

Headband is a touch head. 

>>>>>>>Headband is a touch head. 

Sorry but that is incorrect..  Rob B. (Headband himself) at various times has offered recollections of seeing Jerry and the Boys numerous times.

DMT or not go see DSO when they are anywhere close.  You will be happy you went.

>>>Terrible ! SCREW DMT Crap !

>>>STOP Right There Bucky B - RIGHT NOW. As In NO !

>>>Honestly i Don't Even Know What DMT Is.

>>>>>apparently it was a couple of people in their late 40’s who had a bad reaction to some edibles.

So, Gen-Xers.

It's a mean old world for Touch Heads.  First they get blamed for shitting the bed in Jerry's last years in the era of the Mega-Dead, now as they are hitting the age of fading t-levels the Millennials are pillorying them for trashing the cover band scene.  

No respect I tell ya, no respect.  Hoist the mainsail, lash the mast.

Heeeeeyyyyyeeee Mannnnnn wanna hit this?

Fuck off

I ate a brownie from a stranger going into a forum show. Blew chunks second set jack straw opener. Last time I did that.

I'm glad everyone is ok

DMT: The Spirit Molecule    

https://youtu.be/LtT6Xkk-kzk

>>>Should we start calling daylight Dr. daylight?

maybe dr google.

most people are so wildly misinformed about drugs that i cant help myself when its mentioned, i have to chime in and its often a big ol essay like what i wrote above. i am fully aware it makes me sound like an overconfident know it all but idgaf, drugs are dangerous and most people, even people who use them frequently, are super misinformed. if i can help one person stay safe by making a post about the pharmacology of opiates or promoting reagent testing of street drugs, id be happy.

You could always just go volunteer at a harm reduction organization.

http://www.rockmed.org/

No disrespect intended Dr. Google, you keep those essays coming.

It's nice to know that there are still folks who know how to converse beyond two sentences & a lmao.

>>>Rob B. (Headband himself) at various times has offered recollections of seeing Jerry and the Boys numerous times<<<

Unless I misunderstood this comment, being a "touch head" doesn't mean one never saw the Grateful Dead, it means one began seeing them in the late '80s, but as a putdown or label it's meaningless, because we all discover the Grateful Dead when we do and there's always been a putdown label for every era of the phenomenon known as the Grateful Dead.

I was dismissingly referred to as a "disco dead head" a few times in the late '70s because I got on board right when Shakedown Street came out, and there are plenty of stories of people being put down as not real dead heads in the early '70s because the band had sold out and gone country after American Beauty & Workingman's Dead came out.

All those labels are meaningless and are just an easy way for people to feel superior and try to take ownership of something that doesn't belong to them.

But we're all susceptible to that, as we're all people, so let's all be careful out there.

My buddy got ahold of some very powerful DMT back in the 90's sometime.  Had me sit in a beanbag chair.  Had to take the pipe from my hands because at the end of the hit, I lost all muscle control. I sat there and slobbered for a half an hour. Was the most incredible psychedelic experience of my life. I was so high, I had to keep reminding myself that I did it on purpose.  ( Wow what is going on?!?!  OK there is Nancy folding clothes. She is not worried, so I must be OK.  Oh yeah, I did this on purpose. Cool!) After 30 minutes I was in control, but the carpet was still a wheat field, flowing in the(nonexistent) wind.  Afterword, my Buddy Lane said that he had done it for the first time the night before and got really high.  So, he gave me twice as much.   I was a bit leery after that and did not do it again for several yrs.  I still have never done that much again, but I am very glad I did once.  In lesser amounts, it can really kick up an experience.  I wish I had some. 

One time I did some at some super Zoners' house, and everyone turned into Simpsons characters.

Very well said Lance!

>people were ODing from a fentanyl laced vape pen.  

I'm not even reading any of this thread.  I can just stop at the first.  NO ONE is putting fentanyl in vape pens.  Im guessing that the parties involved were the type of dipshits that say 'did you lace this weed???' or after they've been told not to eat the whole edible they eat 2, 'I think I'm dying!'  

There's a real problem with fentanyl and there's a real problem with stupid people.  

I thought DMT was that rapper that can't drive worth sheeit.

I better do some googlin'.

Headband is a touch of greyer. 

Of course I don’t  mean it as a put down. Love HB.

Just sayin the Dso crowd is trying to insult one of there own.

Huh?  Rob was seeing shows in the 70's.  He was a touring musician in the 80's...along with a slew of other players I know. While you were spending money listening to the GD they were making money playing the GD. 

>>> I thought DMT was that rapper that can't drive worth sheeit. <<<

No, you're thinking of Run TMZ I'm pretty sure...

DMX -- he's a crazy mother fucker.  Probably would fit in well here. 

I also thought Rob had said '72.

Head band was 1 or 2 in’72

Who do you think headband is?  Lets clear that up first. 

Rob Barraco....

"I was of course a Dead fan but I honestly kind of missed out on the Brent [Mydland] era. I saw my first show in ’72, and by ’78 I was kind of done."

https://www.jambase.com/article/bringing-dead-life-rob-barraco-dark-star...

By the 1980s, Barraco had graduated from playing in GD cover bands to being the keyboard player in the Cosby Show house band.

Didn't someone post a video this year of some New York State GD cover band from the late 1970s featuring him on keys? 

In an interview, Barraco said:    "I was of course a Dead fan but I honestly kind of missed out on the Brent era. I saw my first show in ’72, and by ’78 I was kind of done — I had become a jazz snob and that’s really all I wanted to go see at that time."

https://www.jambase.com/article/bringing-dead-life-rob-barraco-dark-star...

Maybe it was Barraco who called me a disco dead head.

Wait, we aren’t talking about Vorty?

Vort is not Headband, maaaan.

I’ve been part of a lot of bands over the years, and there are only a few of them that had real mojo. Dark Star is one of those, the Phil Lesh & Friends group — the Q — was another. This band(Cal Kind) has mojo.

Barraco was born in 1970. Must have attended those shows with his folks.

Wings points deduction?

baracco is only a year older than me?

i thought 10....

vorty didn't see brent...

>>>>Barraco was born in 1970. Must have attended those shows with his folks.

Here is a 1980 video of a GD cover band called Timberwolf.   The keyboardist is supposedly Rob "Headband" Barraco.  If it is, he sure doesn't look 10 years old.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rXSnV_YtDA&t=380s

>>Wait, we aren’t talking about Vorty?

or this guy

wing point deductions for white gym socks

Not sure of Barraco's birth year,  but online Bio's all say that he played Keyboards for "The Cosby Show"  so he must have been over 18 when that TV show was running.

Means he was 18 in '88.

Already playing on the show A Different World.

Put down the fent pen.

I think I'd probably lose my shit if I thought I saw Nancy folding clothes while on a DMT nod.

When was Head Band born?

A buddy of mine in TN bought DMT (5-MEO) over the internet as it wasn't completely illegal in the late 90s/early 00s. I did it with him a few times on a visit there. Heavy stuff 

That's actually Chi Kev on Keys in Ken's video.  True story

Back in the late 80’s. In the lots- Touch Heads where known as “Touch of Greyers”

From Ken's Timberwolf link.

Like I said, Chi Kev.  Proof is in the pudding.

Did you miss an opportunity to wager? 

Mmmmmmmmmmm.  Pudding.

Timmy it was in the late '80s when the lots really started going to shit, so anything is possible.

Ken, yes that is him for sure.

Herbal,  different Nancy.

L4LM: You think the kid that just heard the Dead last week on Spotify will understand it like the Deadhead who has gone to three-hundred shows?

RB: When I first got into the Dead, I was fourteen. It wasn’t even the Dead—I heard a friend play “Casey Jones” on the acoustic guitar, and I was like, “What is that?” He said it was the Grateful Dead, and just the name got me! When you’re not aware of something, you just are not aware of it. Once you become aware of it, it’s everywhere. All of the sudden, I’m walking in the mall by my house, and there is this record store, and the whole place is festooned with Grateful Dead. They had just released the Skull & Roses album. There it was again—the Grateful Dead!

I must have just turned fifteen, and I had this little room in my basement. It was my blacklight room with blacklight posters and blacklight paint. My mother hated me. I had an FM radio down there when FM was a brand new thing. It was album-oriented rock as opposed to Top 40 AM radio. And I think I’m so cool, and then this song comes on, and I’m like, “What is this?  This is so cool.” And the DJ gets on and says, “That was the Grateful Dead.” It was “Uncle John’s Band”, and I was hooked after that

So he must have been born around 1955 or 56..

From a Live for Live Music interview.

Yes they were called “touch of greyers”

Youngster

Ruling?

...expose if you never saw the grateful dead you wouldn’t know.

“touch of greyers”

>>> I think I'd probably lose my shit if I thought I saw Nancy folding clothes while on a DMT nod.

I'd probably have to bust through the "blast off" to thank her for the White Castle Impossible Slider tip.

We took a 30 slider crave case for a pre- Thanksgiving snack, holy shit that was a big hit with the family.

Horse Shit

You don’t know what your talking about.

IvI' heard the deader than thou say touch head but never touch of greyer. 

“Touch of greyer” evolved into “touch head”

...learn something new everyday, huh?

>>>Horse Shit

You don't know what you're talking about.<<<

"The weather started getting rough,
the tiny ship was tossed.
If not for the courage of the fearless crew
the Minnow would be lost.
The Minnow would be lost."

Touch of greyer never lived so it couldn't evolve. You are lyen like Bryen. 

I have had a touch of Gruyere now and again.