“What if I told you that everything you learned about Russia was wrong?” [Reade] had written in one 2018 post. “President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader. … To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love. To all my Russian friends, happy holiday and Happy New Year.”
Admittedly, I'm hoping this isn't the hurtful issue it could be for Biden and his campaign, but I'm also respectful of women and women's rights.
But two things I wonder. The pro-Russia writings lead to some questions of motive and more. (Bryen's GF?) Dirty tricks and manipulation will be happening, cause Putin wants Trump.
Also, how does someone get to digital penetration without there being quite a bit of action beforehand, as if Joe just came up and kissed her and fingered her or something? Hmmmm.
Putin is still working to divide us and playing the BernieBros like a fiddle.
walks like a Russian asset, talks like a Russian asset:
>In particular, critics pointed to that now-deleted 2018 Medium post in which Reade called Putin “a compassionate, caring, visionary leader” and said, “To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love.”
In the same post, she wrote that she left government work in her 20s in part because “I love Russia with all my heart” and “I could not stand to watch the deception and xenophobia that came from my own American government.”
Let's not forget, the same Bernie bro's also got played in 2016 to believe HRC was no different than Trump. All Putin has to do is say corporate dem or centrist and y'all run to your feeding troughs to divide the party. Proves once again that the far right and far left have more similarities than differences.
Baby boomer males are pretty willing to look past sexual assault actions for a Democrat, Dise. That's exactly what Ned is saying. He just doesn't realize it.
hahaha centrists like ned will now knowingly vote for a sexual predator, like trump, b/c his candidate "isn't as bad", even tho trump has been a lifelong dem up until 2016, and biden is GOP-lite.
hahahaha justify it anyway you'd like.
supporting a sexual predator like biden, who raped a woman, is totally fucked up.
I'm not looking past anything. You are convicting and admonishing a little too early, methinks.
If he's guilty of the act, it truly is a disqualifier. Let's see what truth is there.
Meanwhile, tRump bangs hookers when his wife's home with the baby, and you are Ok with him just to prove Bernie deserved to be the Dem nominee. You want Biden to lose for your own self-interest. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
>>>>>If he's guilty of the act, it truly is a disqualifier. Let's see what truth is there.
Trump wasn't disqualified. He isn't going to be charged while he's president and if Biden wins he won't be removed for any wrong doings. You guys give passes to political royalty.
<<<>>>Meanwhile, tRump bangs hookers when his wife's home with the baby, and you are Ok with him just to prove Bernie deserved to be the Dem nominee. You want Biden to lose for your own self-interest. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
haha! wow. fucking hookers and what biden did aren't the same thing, ned. jesus man.
and trump is a serial sexual predator -- no shit. fuck that guy.
It's out of our hands. Trumps response to COVID-19, the length of the shut-down and resulting economy will determine the results. If he actually manages this thing even halfway competently he will defeat any opponent.
I think, assuming he's still alive and the nominee in 2020, a lot balances on how he handles the sexual assault allegations and who Biden chooses for VP. If he goes with a progressive, and manages to stay clean...he'll maybe win. If he goes with a born-again progressive, or a centrist, I don't think he has a prayer. From what I've seen, trump isn't losing voters no matter how badly he's managing the pandemic, so I doubt Biden will pick up regretful trump voters (if they exist in numbers that matter - I haven't seen evidence).
Trump will lose voters when they start dying after following him and faux news bullshit for 6 weeks. Take for instance the villages in Florida, you may know of it.
This is the place where retirees live in comfort in central Florida driving around in golf carts. When the nationwide shut down started, they were on the news dancing cheek to cheek and playing soft ball, not at the same time, and scoffing at the virus. Guess where there is a huge outbreak now. The median age is 72. They started social distancing last week.
if 100,000 Americans die, who takes the blame, President it's just flu, the dems. Won't be uncle Joe!
so where are all the people here that were up in arms over justice kavanaugh getting the nomination, yet biden forcefully fingered a staffer in 1993, and not a peep.
I have empathy for you, heater. It must be hard being proven wrong, repeatedly, for months. I understand your lashy-outy-ness. It's a natural human reaction.
Trump doesn't need voters. So hard watching you guys go through this shit. Trump only
needs Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio. He doesn't need any voters at all. He just needs the same votes as he got last time when he completely obliterated Hilary in the electoral college. Trumps approval rating and media appearances are through the roof while Biden is literally gone. Didn't work in 2016 for Hilary and it won't work this time lol. Unlikely that he will even get PA in the general. Enjoy your pipe dreams guys
Bernie has been working his ass off and has been in the media a lot actually. Where have you been, Ned? Medicare for all has been at the forefront of almost every news outlet in the US.
Are you feeling ok? Bernie been everywhere bud. Maybe wake up. You're pretty out the loop, guy. And no you haven't addressed it. How do you feel that the person you support likes to grope females against their own will, Ned?
No, you're just blind lol. Bernie has in the media constantly for being at the forefront of pushing through the largest stimulus package in federal history.
Ned must be drinking. The largest stimulus package in American history gets past in the Senate with Bernie leading the way lobbying for workers to get paid sick leave, healthcare and unemployment benefits but he somehow missed that.
Some of y'all are acting like sore losers. Bernie got trounced. It was no corporate media conspiracy or centrist takeover of the party. Just a plain old ass kicking. Let's all act like grown ups, cut the bullshit and all move in the same direction to get the evil out. Maybe Liz Warren for VP?
Polling numbers right now are highly skewed by COVID. For the first time, Trump's approval rating is higher than his disapproval. He's showing higher support from both Democrats and Independents. They call it the "rally around the flag effect." Plus, he's getting all the air-time that anyone could ask for.
Turtle, that's just an objective view, and has nothing to do with who the candidate is. It's a phenomenon that happens during a crisis. History has shown that it wouldn't really matter who he was polling against.
Whatever though. If you need Trump to be winning, at this moment, because Biden is a flawed candidate, go with it. I'm not going to argue it.
I bet that if you took a random sampling of 100,000 adult Americans and asked them who Tara Reade is, 75% would scratch their head, 20% would say "the blonde chick from American Pie," and the rest, the news junkies, would know what's going on.
too bad that a company that made $10k ventilators for $3k got bought up by a medical company that squashed that, because you know....profit/greed/wall st...
if you objective and reasonable people would listen to some of that hill link, you'd maybe have a better understanding of the current political climate and reality facing someone trying to defeat trump.
$1200 for people, one time. that's not going to help anyone with real debt or laid off from their jobs. people in the so called gig economy, working multiple jobs, still reeling from the 2008 collapse.
No, you're just blind lol. Bernie has in the media constantly for being at the forefront of pushing through the largest stimulus package in federal history
There are three main points in that Hill piece: there's no excitement for Biden, and that he's a flawed and unvetted candidate. The third is that Trump as incumbent, comes in stronger, and he has coded to tear Biden apart. I don't disagree with any of that.
I do question the lack of analysis on the "excitement" point. Is anyone excited about anything right now? Yeah, Biden isn't that exciting to start, but I doubt if there'd be [widespread] excitement for anyone right now.
“Ned must be drinking. The largest stimulus package in American history gets past in the Senate with Bernie leading the way lobbying for workers to get paid sick leave, healthcare and unemployment benefits but he somehow missed that. “
racket thinks bernie makes all the rules, and that he's not fighting literally everybody else, even his own "team", just so the working class gets their less than basic benefits/pay during world crisis situations, instead of absolutely nothing.
Stimulus package was definitely bullshit. Bernie was fighting for the additional 600$ for unemployment benefits and he succeed at that. The large companies got there way once again. Another large hand and finger point to the various large problems and issues in the broken American political system.
So let's look at it from your views racket. Yes he could have blocked the bill. Then weeks go by and no type of relief for anyone continues, and next it's months and then what? He is out there there with one or two other senators on the same level fighting for the same things. He did what could. That's it. Wasn't what he wanted. It's what he was able to work with it.
if bernie doesn't compromise more people, you know, us citizens will be further economically fucked as well as small businesses. people can and are fucking dying because of this shit. really have the political sophistication of a 4th grader.
thanks for taking the time to listen to that piece bk.
remember, bernie is the only candidate not accused of rape.
let that sink in.
ned can't accept it, and gravy thinks it was already "debunked", and they're standing strong w/ their guy. who else here is willing to push biden's rape aside and blindly suppprt?
remeber when biden was telling people to go out and vote during the pandemic? well a poll worker in FL tested positive...their entire team is highly unqualified for the job.
You seem very dedicated to your ideals of how our system should work, which is admirable.
Just wondering if you ever thought about running for public office and / or forming an organization to help change things and move forward with your vision of how it should be?
JD - why would insults or rhetoric coming from random supporters of a specific candidate have any sway on whether or not you would vote for somebody or not? there are very serious issues we need to tackle, both nationally and globally - which candidate has the policies that most closely match up with your political views, and how you think the world's most important issues should be addressed?
biden or sanders is not "your" candidate or "his" candidate or "my" candidate - they are both "our" candidates. which one is presenting the best path forward should be the sole metric.
there are serious life and death issues at play that could reverberate hundreds of years into the future - why would pheat being an asshole or someone being mean on twitter hold any sway in this descision???
It's interesting that the insults can make voters look at candidates with asshole supporters in an unfavorable light. Interesting, and true.
Sort of like I don't buy products or services I'd like from people whose politics or human rights stances I abhor, or like I don't buy from Amazon because what Jeff Bezos doesn't spend his money on offends me.
^nah, im good man. your classic pz psychobabble is entertaining, and this place wouldn't be the same w/o you -- please continue.
^^would you "buy" biden's services?
knowing he's a sexual predator, isn't in favor of banning fracking, supplying healthcare to all, paying a fair wage to service workers, letting unions bargain for better pay instead of sacrificing for healthcare that isn't that great anyway, wasn't even for gay marriage until 2010 or so, has made countless disparaging comment to and about women and their right to choose, the list goes on and on.
funny how people generally ignore the mess centrists/establishment dems have gotten us into by abandoning the working class decades ago. especially boomers.
we all know the GOP is insane, and is responsible as well, no shit -- i mean, W's cabinet was full of war criminals. modern day GOP.
but the dems are all we have -- and they say they're on our side, that they represent us -- but then they don't, and give out massive bailouts to th corporations while working america gets fucked.
so how the fuck aren't you mad? if you're content w/ corporate dem rule (republican lite) then ok.
but if me calling biden senile and highly unqualified to hold office offends you, then good.
if pointing out facts about how biden has a 40yr record on attempting to cut SS makes your upset, then fuck off. there's no
more time for that nonsense.
if believing the woman that says biden fingered her w/o consent, especially after liberals fully melted over the kavanaugh shit, fuck off.
Who are you talking to, pyramidheat? I think it may be me, since you used the ^^. I haven't said I'm voting for Biden, nor that I'm not mad, nor that I trust or want the guy to be my president. Me?
But really, telling me to fuck off for anything you think I believe?
i am taking to you, judit; i'm saying if biden gets the nomination, but i know you said you voted bernie or are voting bernie in the primary- but also anybody, like Johnny d and JR, who said insults sway voters decision. first off, insults have been flung by all participants in these threads. come on guys. of course i'm guilty. so are all the other regulars.
you literally have ras posting insults about me, and nothing else, when i'm not even participating in the discussion, saying "that's all" -- which is kinda funny, no? lol. but it's all there.
im saying if you're not for basic shit like m4a and saving our planet so we can exist in a healthy manner for generations to come, you're in the other side.
also funny how the bernie bro narrative is brought up so often here (and everywhere) -- yet rarely, if ever, has the corporate media's anti semitic portrayal of bernie, or the racist treatment his african american co-chair and national press sec have received been brought up here.
Dr. Cath defined a cult as a group of people joined together by a common ideological system fostered by a charismatic leader, where, he said, ''the expectation is that they can transcend the imperfections and finitude of life.''
He said:''Often they set up a we-they philosophy: We have the truth and you do not.''
( what I imply is take a break man ... stop blowing gaskets )
fwiw I "hate" Democrats
and do believe that often compromise is required
FWIW I DESPISE TRUMP
He is a horrible human and a way worse POTUS possibly the worst president of all time - def in my lifetime
The most important thing to get that asshole out of office and hopefully into a jail cell (I also hope his immediate divorce will cost him a fortune- doubt if with the expected pre nup )
i do not like our candidates
i do not like how dirty politics are
I am just wondering what people can do to educate those who have not yet voted who consider themselves to be more risk averse ("centrists!").
Bernie is not getting enough votes to become the next Democratic nominee for POTUS.
How are Bernie and those who support him going to convince more people to vote for him? I think that it's on Bernie and others to have compelling conversations with these people and try to convince them that their lives will be better if Bernie becomes the next President.
In my experience, people who are overly emotional (angry, scared, threatened, etc) have a limited ability to open themselves to listening, learning, and potentially agreeing with the argument that Bernie will deliver policies that they will benefit from. Threats and insults generally produce negative responses from the targets, which make it very difficult for them to think rationally and make their own logical decisions. They generally shut down.
I don't think you'll find an example of my "flinging insults", and I know that people who feel disrespected (as Johnny said, threatened or insulted) don't hear what's being said in a positive light (or maybe any other).
I think I've asked this before, pyramidheat, what is your goal when you are posting in these threads? Is it to help people see the wisdom of recognizing Bernie as the person whose policies are going to save the planet/civilization, our health, and welfare? Or something else? It doesn't feel like you want to help people see the light; rather that you want them to feel like trash for their opinions. Please help me understand. Thanks.
Those of you who fling constant insults are slamming shut the doors to potentially open minds.
At least that's the way I see it.
How are you going to convince those who have yet to vote in the presidential primary to turn out for your candidate?
Good Morning Johnny D.
My Comment "This Thread Sucks" was an attempt at humor.
To demonstrate, I used the actress Tara Reid portraying The character Bunny, from the popular Cult from classic The Big Lebowski as as play on the name of the said accuser Tara Reade.
Up until this time, it was the only comment I made on this....ahem..... thread.
I feel that to lump myself in with the others (who shall not be named) who do hurl constant insults toward any others stated political opinions, is quite odd.
I have watched the constant degradation from one group toward another group for months and months now, and frankly it's fucking exhausting.
"Those people:" have been ganging up and verbally beating down many here who would like to offer their political opinions.
So, please do me a big favor Brother, and wave your shamey finger elsewhere.
Right NOW, I have much more pressing issues to worry about.
I did not intend to wave a shamey finger towards you. In fact, I was sending you an "Amen Sister", as I personally felt that all the arguments and attacks were bumming me out. That's my own personal flaw, based on who I am and how I was raised (preacher's kid).
I took your statement out of context and for that, I apologize.
Threads like this are frustrating to me and that's OK.
Johnny D and RRG, I posted this thread because the sources I tend towards are admittedly one-sided and I was asking for information for some balance. Denny was generous enough to offer a link. I in no way encourage or endorse any real or assumed personal attacks contained within this thread.
it's just a gathering, right? talk, discuss, share.
b/c it seems like you have a tendency to prevent people from posting on viva; many zoners who have once tried viva, only to never return b/c of the way you handle yourself here and push your ideology onto others.
A. some People leave viva because of the posts, because of the posters and their attitudes and I suspect even their language ( many are very repetitive also AND YES some seem to really like insulting others and calling them names) --many of the participants seem to have trouble listening or having an open mind >>~~ If I am right (which of course I am >>> then you must be wrong ~~<< a coin only has one side....
B. Phil plays a hell of a lot (as do many many other bands)
C. Folks evolve or move on to other interests or activities
>>>b/c it seems like you have a tendency to prevent people from posting on viva; many zoners who have once tried viva, only to never return b/c of the way you handle yourself here and push your ideology onto others.
Ain't that kinda rich ? Where does respect enter into the discussion ? As an old friend used to tell his cat, "You know the rules".
Timpane and P Heat will both be spanked in front of the group for disrespecting admin, antagonizing the group, and in general, just being very naughty boys. Will give a heads up in the next couple days with an ID for a Zoom Meeting link. As an aside, TOD got very excited, mentioned nipples, and then asked if he could remove their pants and underwear first. I felt like he was taking it too far so I said no.
pyramidheat, I was asking respectful and sincere questions, hoping to understand your thoughts about what you post - I don’t get what you’re trying to achieve in your posts about politics, and hoped we would meet in discussion. Rather, it became an instance of your reacting, making me the Zone punching bag. It seems that you want to hold me responsible for the state of Viva; I believe you are smart enough to know how untrue that is.
Acceptance, especially after such an unexpected and complete unequivocal loss is tough for most people; especially when a person looks inside and is self aware enough to see that they might have contributed to it. Take your time heater. You are loved.
i answered, judit. and i don't understand why you post here at all or what you're trying to achieve by running the site into the ground?
you asking me what my goal in posting on viva is? to kill time like everybody else. do you understand now?
ned -- do you still think insurance should be tied to employment? lol. almost 10 mil applied for unemployment.
bk -- grow up man. you must be bored. here you are throwing yourself into the mix again -- classic BK behavior. did your former employer "shake their head and walk away"?
<<<>>>A. some People leave viva because of the posts, because of the posters and their attitudes and I suspect even their language ( many are very repetitive also AND YES some seem to really like insulting others and calling them names) --many of the participants seem to have trouble listening or having an open mind >>~~ If I am right (which of course I am >>> then you must be wrong ~~<< a coin only has one side...
for somebody who throws insults around frequently, you certainly wag your shamey finger a lot.
You have zero self awareness. Thousands of posts berating people and calling names, day after day. It's all you do. And I'm bored?
As you know, I told a dirty joke to someone I thought was a friend (which I never denied), and got slapped on the wrist for it. You and your pals, for the last 5 years, have created your own story and used it against me. You're still doing it. As a mater of fact, it's all of your go-to. It's fucking stupid, and it's a made up story.
Maybe, dipshit, it's time for you to get a life and grow the fuck up.
Oh no, a 30 year old, entitled, spoiled brat with limited intelligence and absolutely no self awareness or knowledge of the world around him thinks I'm a tool.
You guys think I'm going to be thinking about this site over the next twelve hours?
Or you? At all??
That's fucking hilarious. I'm already late. Funny how little this whole pandemic thing has changed life for some of us eh? Some of us still gotta go to work, still got bills to pay; others gonna lay around the house and be angry old men all day. How cute, it even rhymes.
Seriously, I don't have to spend a moment on whether you'll be thinking about this site while you're away. You'll be back to prove you were soon enough.
Right, Ateix? Your pal ogkb has been angering up this joint 24/7. I've been busy as shit and rarely posting. Libertarian Vermont is hooking him up with mad unemployment benefits and tier 1 free medical, so he has time for it.
The funny thing is that I have a son who is the same age as ateix. Like ateix, my son is still working too and has bills to pay - so I am directly aware of how different people are dealing with life in this unprecedented time.
One difference is that my son does not spend any time posting back and forth with old people on a message board.
Instead he's out helping older people in his free time.
>> ned -- do you still think insurance should be tied to employment? lol. almost 10 mil applied for unemployment. <<
When did I ever say, think or post that?
I have always thought that employers have unfair leverage on employees due to this "benefit". Just because I don't think Bernie is the best candidate doesn't mean I disagree with all of his platform.
Sooooo, let me see if I'm understanding this thread correctly:
Centrist dems don't actually care about women's rights or about sexual assault accusations, and it's ok to question a woman's credibility when it comes to accusations of sexual assault, so long as the accusation is levelled against one of their candidates? Does that about sum it about?
I believe her!...unless she's accusing my candidate!
Unrelated to the thread topic, but Timpane, I'm sorry to hear that.
I'm a teacher so staying at home has actually meant a great deal more work for me. I'm working from 7 to 6 or 7 everyday. Creating online materials, responding emails, video conferences, checking work AND supervising my two kids as they do their schoolwork....
And I'm my department's coordinator so I have to manage my teachers and their materials. Fuck, man...is it 4:20 yet?
Pyramid, you should know that though you and I may be in the same corner politically 1) I think it's insane how often you (and a whole crew of others) just feel it's so easy and are ok with tossing insults around all the time. I can't imagine you do that in real life, so I'm not sure why you would do it online. And 2) anyone who goes against Judit is a dick in my book. She's done nothing but provide a playground for us all to talk shit on for the last few years out of the kindness of her heart. I've never once seen her insult anyone. I've never seen her go against anyone in a mean way. I have seen her over and over going out of her way to try to keep this place afloat and keep a kind spirit alive. If you can't see that, you should clean your lens, maaaaaaan....
I'm crazy behind on grading work. I've corrected about 20% of my workload. I should probably get back to that now but I'm kind of burned out today. And I ran out of herb like a week ago and am struggling...I just managed to finagle my way onto a medicinal script and have an interview with a dispensary today, so Jah Bless....
March was my busiest month in over a year...April looking even bigger. Hopefully, we can get back to 'normal' by June so the economy doesn't go down the tubes completely.
pheater maybe if everyone here, including Javs and Judit, are telling you you're acting like a dick, you should listen. Quack quack....
Four posts in response to me. Keep up the good work, ogkb! I'm sure you've got more in the works.
To you, anyone who tells you to chill out is wagging the shamey finger. Nobody is as aggressive and rude as you, though, nor are they as constant. You've called me more names today (plus your other lies) than I've ever called you.
Now, can we please get back to the MSM being anti Semitic to Bernie? Other than one dude calling some of his supporters "Brownshirts," I can't find any other references to it. Based on that, what you're doing is making up shit to make a point. There is no mass anti Semitic conspiracy in the MSM against Bernie.
I don't know who is ignoring what. It seems like COVID is taking up 99.9% of the news cycle. Everything else is being ignored.
That said, how do we balance believing women with "innocent until proven guilty?" Should anyone's career, in any field, be ended because of accusations? Are believing women and due process mutually exclusive?
I don't know how it is in Chile, but there's a certain level of fear amongst male middle and high school teachers here. Even the slightest accusation can put someone through hell. I've heard female students "joking" about how much power they have. The administration tells teachers they have to enforce dress codes, and make teachers say, "fuck that, if I send them to the office for their low cut shirt, they'll say I was looking at them funny."
Did I say Biden should drop out? But just acting like it never happened, of flat out denying it and basically playing the same old patriarchal card of "That never happened ergo she's a liar" seems kind of weak and inappropriate these days.
As for teachers in Chile, well, here students wear a uniform at almost all schools. There's not a lot of room for turning a uniform into something scandalous, but the older or faster-maturing girls do often like to cut the skirt till it doesn't cover much. That said, they all wear like gym tights under them, so it's not really a problem anyways. Chile, like Latin America, is a pretty touchy-feely culture still. I get attacked by female students (remember I teach 5th to 8th grade) fairly frequently and just kinda make sure my hands are in the air or patting them on the head so there's no confusion. But as the years go by it has (with good reason) become a more prominent issue.
As for Biden, his response to this situation seems like your pretty standard chicken shit response which takes advantage of the male power differential to discredit the woman. To my liking, the only powerful male that I know of who has responded properly to these types of situations was Al Franken. He acknowledge, apologized and sacrificed his career. He may have fucked up but he owned up with courage and integrity.
Tbe question remains, Javs, how do we balance giving both sides due process? You're not answering that.
You're right that Franken did sacrifice himself, but it's a bit different. There were pics of him grabbing her while she was asleep. Denial wasn't really an option.
What wouldn't be a chickenshit response? It seems like yku're put him in a Catch-22.
haven't read everything -- ned you're lying, it's ok.
bk -- you have issues man -- you call me names but only say anything when i respond? hahaha you've been doing that for years on this site; you're insufferable man. jesus christ.
centrists asking for time but melting over kavanaugh immediately is pure gold.
i would never shame you for calling me any name. lol.
i will shame you for saying americans don't prefer m4a (lie, right ned) and that unions want to keep their healthcare instead of receiving m4a (lie).
bk if you can't find the countless anti semitic examples out there from this run, well.....fuck it, it makes sense you can't.
BK, I understand what you're saying about due process, but there's two holes in your line of thinking.
1) I'm not saying this is true for you specifically (I have no idea what you have said case by case) but the fact remains that when someone who is of the 'other' band (whichever that may be) is accused of sexual assault, people will rush to judgement and yet when someone of 'their' band is accused, there is an overwhelming discourse about civility, due process, waiting till the facts play out, etc. This is mostly due (IMO) to our primate nature and our desire to constantly defend 'our' territory. Like I've argued over and over, people are inconsistent, emotional, impulsive beings who play the game of politics much like they would a football match. If it's my team, I'm for 'em. If it's the other team, fuck those lying bastards. This is true here, there and everywhere. Truth is, there's a lot of overlap in what a centrist dem like Biden strives to achieve and what a republican like Trump strives to achieve, but dems won't admit that because it would involve admitting they've been supporting war and corporate control of politics all along.
2) Statistics show that only a very small percent of rape, sexual assault and sexual abuse allegations are false. Small enough that we really should consider all allegations as true to begin with. Why? Because we live in a culture that has inherited a patriarchal legacy where it is very easy for a man to discredit a woman's allegations and EXTREMELY difficult for a woman to even get people to listen to her accusations. Someone who is genuinely interested in representing women's rights has the ethical obligation (IMO) to do everything in their power to validate the woman's claims, support them, listen to them, give them a space for expression and do everything in their power to help them achieve a sense of justice. And again, the percentage of false accusations is so tiny that (IMO) it is better to err on the side of the 90% or so of true accusations, rather than just look like another powerful old white guy who takes advantage of women who are in a position of less power (physically, politically, societally, etc). And come on - is it really that hard to believe that a powerful old white man would do this kind of thing? Someone in this thread even said something like 'I find it odd that he would just go straight for fingering her'. I don't find it odd. A woman's genitals are by nature vulnerable, penetrable. A quick slip of the underwear and there you are. A horny many full of testoterone and the belief that he is being seduced is a dangerous thing. I know because I am that man, I have been that man, and all men have been that man. It's the nature of testosterone. It clouds the brain and makes you see things that perhaps aren't happening. Especially in the younger years and decreasing as time goes by. And power is a strong intoxicant, to boot.
So yeah, for Joe to just come out with your standard 'I have no idea what that crazy woman is talking about' trope is weak. It's pathetic. It's patriarchal. It's an abuse of power. It's a clear display that you're respect for women's rights is lip service. I would say this about any man, but I find it highly inexcusable in a man who is in a position to control the narrative of the most powerful nation in the world and by default influence the entire world.
But hey, Joe probably can't even remember what he had for breakfast, so maybe he genuinely just has no clue who this woman is. Which is also worrisome....
And the 'Biden is the lesser of two evils' argument is the same rhetorical bullshit that has pushed the US and the world into the baloney polarized black and white mentality that puts people like Trump into power. It's time to start walking the walk when it comes to politics, not just talking the talk.
I didn't have an argument, Javs. I asked how we believe women and also have due process?
I also asked you what he could have said that wasn't a Catch-22 for him. If he denies it he's wrong. If he says that he believes that she believes it, he's wrong. Other than admitting to it, how could you ever be satisfied with his response.
It begs the question, how do we move forward with it? Should there be a special hearing, or a court case? I don't know what happened and would like to.
BK, I think that the Catch-22 is his fault, since he's built up a reputation as a pretty creepy guy. That said, poking around the internet all I could find out of the Biden camp on this was a statement by some staffer saying "the accusations are totally false". It would have been much more interesting and relevant to hear something coming from Biden himself, first off (it may have happened, but I couldn't find it). Second, anything with even a remote touch of empathy would be a welcome change in the usual rhetoric. Say, for example, "although I do not remember the events in the same way that Ms. Reade remembers them, I understand her frustration and sadness over the situation and have an extended an invitation to her to discuss the matter with me in greater depth so that I may review my acting and apologize for any wrongdoing I may have incurred. I certainly empathize with women in situations of sexual assault and it is important to me to hear her version of the events and find a resolution that will help bring closure to her life".
But that would require intelligence (Biden has none), empathy (even less) and a genuine feeling of giving a shit about women's right (clearly, he doesn't feel that way).
But like I said already, I'm guessing Old Joe can't even remember her and probably wears a bib while he eats so he doesn't drool on his cheerios. His total and complete absence during the last weeks is telling in the sense that he's pretty clearly not a leader of any kind. Not in terms of helping a country deal with a massive crisis, and certainly not in setting a tone or mood that shows a desire to further the dialogue on helping women and sexual assault victims in general be able to express themselves and find justice.
I wish it weren't true but you know it and I know - Joe is gonna get steamrolled by the Don in November...
Had he given the response that you suggested, he would have been called an even bigger scumbag. There's no way to say that without coming off as condescending and misogynistic. Think about it. She accused him of penetrating her body without consent. "I do t remember it that way, I'm sorry for your pain." He would be painted as an even bigger douchebag, especially by his haters. It's a 20+ year old he said \ she said. Deny and move on, and the haters are going to hate.
A lot can happen between now and November. Trump is surging because of this "rally around the flag" thing. Biden's momentum hit a brick wall, and most of the population doesn't give a shit about anything right now, other than COVID. That will change in a few months. Bernie has way more of a chance to step in and grab the delegates than he did a month ago. It's up to him to capitalize on the opportunity. To do so, though, he's going to have to become much more "presidential." That last debate was a disaster on that front. He was the Bernie that we know, love and expect, but not the leader of the free world.
Weird that people put value into "looking presidential". I actually like the fact that Bernie is simply trying to adress issue instead of trying to make himself look good. That's the sign of a liar and a bullshitter. Like every single president in history. We no longer need these people to get up there and try and dazzle us. This is why many people like Coumo right now while behind closed doors he is lobby to cut Medicaid. People want to be dazzled. We need to change that.
I agree with you, Timpane. People want their President to display certain leadership qualities. Although it's very rare for someone to have those qualities and to be on the up-and-up, they aren't mutually exclusive. FDR had it all. You could maybe make a case that JFK also did (within the context of his era).
In my opinion, Bernie dropped the ball at the debate. He kept going back to M4A, and it wasn't the time to hammer that home. He could have hit a homer by laying out what he was going to do, in the Senate, to ensure that people weren't fucked by COVID. In times of crisis people want to know how their leaders will help in the here and now. Focusing on that would have been "presidential."
Ultimately, he did the good shit in the Senate. As I said a few posts ago, with Biden's momentum at zero, he has the opportunity to use that to his advantage. "Look what I did for you during this crisis. You can be assured that I'll fight for you moving forward."
I'm not disagreeing with you. Bernie did horrible in that debate. He was trying to set Biden up for failure by asking him questions when he should have just laid down facts and been the aggressor. I didn't think Biden Di well either because he told countless lies and people now have the more means than ever to fact check him after the debate. People don't want to be lied to anymore and it will gain him distrust in his own party. The dazzlement is a republican tactic. It's how Trump has won over people in the Midwest. He's a TV personality. Biden is not that and if he tries playing that game then the general election is really gonna be a disaster for him.
I'm always weary of making blanket statements about what "the people" want. Remember, a majority of this country couldn't point to within 200 miles of DC on a map, nor can they tell you the 3 branches of the government, let alone what their roles are. Perhaps a percentage of educated people are sick of it, but that's a small minority.
I guess it's semantics. He was voting for a temporary cut on all gov't spending, which did include Social Security, as a means of balancing the budget. He wasn't voting to cut SS for the long haul.
It's subjective if he was lying. Yeah, he was voting to cut SS, but no, it wasn't like he as gutting it, and only that program, nor was it for more than a short period.
Pretty strange joke there Ned. I look at it this way Brian K, do you know anyone who likes being lied too? I don't, personally. Usually when I find out I've been lied to it makes it difficult to trust that person.
Interesting question, Timpane. In essence, Bernie lied to everyone in 2016 by making them believe that he had a chance. He knew that, because of the superdelegate system, he never had a snowball's chance in hell. He took hard-earned cash, from people who trusted him, knowing that he couldn't win. In some ways he went a step farther than lying. You still trust him.
I know that you're going to disagree with my statement that he could never win, but it's true. I learned it from my local, Progressive representative the day he announced. "Brian, there's no way he can win. The superdelegates will never vote for him, and they have the power. They are the Party loyalists and bigwigs, like Bill Clinton, Obama. Bernie isn't a Democrat." If my local Progressive representative knew it, Bernie sure as hell did too.
Mannfred, you insist on covering for your candidate, but the fact is that during the debate he repeatedly denied ever having promoted any kind of cut or freeze to social security. The evidence shows that he clearly has, repeatedly. The fact that he has repeatedly been willing to cut or freeze SS is kind of weird in and of itself. It seems like it's very easy for him to turn to that as an option, which should be alarming to everyone. Compounded with the fact that he explicitly lied about it just shows that he a) easily turns to cutting SS an option and b) is willing to explicitly lie about it.
BK, sorry, but your argument that Bernie 'in essence lied' is ridiculous. You either lie or you don't. There is no 'in essence' here. You have no idea whether Bernie thought he could win or not and for all we know your progressive local candidate doesn't know what he's talking about. Or maybe he does. But one example of a person saying Bernie can't win does not equal Bernie knowing he couldn't win and it certainly doesn't equal an 'in essence' lie. It seems like you're trying to equate two very different things. Let's set the record straight. Biden flat out lied to the American public on national TV. Bernie did not.
As for the Tara Reade topic, which pretty much everyone on this thread wants to ignore (a telling sign of its own and very representative of how men in general view women's accusations of sexual assault) I disagree completely that Biden opening up a dialogue with her would have made him look like a bigger scumbag. It's impossible to look like a bigger scumbag then sending one of your minions to say the other person is lying. There is nothing lower than that.
Face it centrists: Biden is a terrible candidate and is going to get his ass handed to him by Trump. And yeah, unfortunately, it's pretty much a fact that he will get the nomination regardless of what Bernie is doing right now. Open up any major news source and you'll be hard-pressed to find a Bernie headline, despite what he's doing.
And yeah, despite what some local progressive politician may or may not have said I continue to think that Bernie would have a real shot at winning the presidential election, just like I think he could have won it in 2016 if the DNC hadn't pulled all the stops to make sure their corporate puppet got put in front of the camera instead. Am I in essence lying?
You didn't read a word of that Fact-check article.
On another note, last night I watched a rerun of Friday's Real Time, with Mahar interviewing Sanders. Bernie was cleaned and polished, wearing a fancier and more tailored suit, and he was on point about dealing with COVID. He didn't use his time as a platform to push his agenda. He looked and sounded like a leader. His whole persona was noticeably different. If he keeps it up, he'll have a chance of picking up the nomination.
Okay Javs, I'll say it flat out again (as I did 4 years ago). He duped the American public. You can't have it both ways. Bernie supporters have been crying foul for 4 years that the superdelegate system was rigged against anyone like Bernie, a Party outsider, and he couldn't win. Yet, now you're telling me that he had a chance. Make up your mind. You're picking the argument that backs your narrative at a specific time.
And honestly, you're quite off base in saying that a Vermont Progressive, who knows Bernie very well and also understands our system, didn't know what he was talking about. He was being objective. I'll venture to say that he's infinitely more knowledgeable than some dude who lives in Chile. Due to the superdelegate system, Bernie had no chance in 2016, and anyone with a working knowledge of the system was aware of that.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what fact-check article you're talking about. I respond to what people say or quote on here, I don't have a lot of time in general to read every article. If you link it again I'll give a go, though, so we're on the same page.
I'm glad to hear Bernie was looking clean and polished on Maher. I still don't think he has a chance of getting the nomination, though, unfortunately.
Again, I disagree that he duped the American public. He had a vision, has it, and is true to it...or that's how I perceive it, anyways. You can't get inside his mind to say decisively that he was tricking the American public. Just like I can't decisively get in there and say he wasn't. So you're trying to equate what you believe to be a 'lie in essence' vs Biden's flat out demonstrable lie. And frankly, they're not even close.
And if you read my post you'll see that I didn't say that your friend/acquaintance was right or wrong. I said he could be either but that it doesn't matter. There's even a name for that type of fallcy; it's called a hasty generalization. Just because that's what the one dude believes, doesn't make it a fact in reality or a fact that Bernie felt that way. It's just one person's opinion.
Let me be clear as to how I felt about the 2016 election - I don't believe we've discussed that specifically. I feel that the DNC shit show was rigged against Bernie. However, had that not been the case, I believe Bernie could have won the general. They're two different things.
And lastly, I'm not just some dude from Chile - I'm Jav, motherfucker. Show some respect.
new poll in Wisconsin shows Joe Biden with a big lead over Bernie Sanders in next week’s Democratic presidential primary, which is moving ahead even though a majority of voters want the state to postpone amid the coronavirus pandemic.
The primary is happening as the state's governor is ordering residents to stay home to slow the spread of the virus. But among those who said they were likely to vote in the primary, the poll, from Marquette Law School, shows Biden leading Sanders 62 percent to 34 percent.
The 2016 Democratic primary wasn't rigged against Bernie. The system was set up to ensure that a true-blood Democrat gets the nomination. Argue it any way you want: Bernie, a lifelong Independent, could have never got that nomination.
I don't know what was in his mind, but if he didn't know that, he's more daft than Biden. Lord knows, tons of Bernie supporters knew it early on when they said it was "rigged." Even you're saying it was rigged. Sorry, Jav motherfucker (said with due respect), you're twisting the argument to suit your narrative at any given time. If the system was rigged so that he could never win, and propel were bitching about it from day one, then Bernie was taking money to run a race that he had no chance in.
By the way, if and when Biden loses to Trump, it will be for a plethora of reasons. Him being a centrist is probably the least of them (other than the far Left not voting at all).
Mannfred, I already posted one article for you. There are many more out there. Do your research. I'm not here to google for you.
Any thoughts on Tara Reade? Will you admit after Biden loses that you were wrong about Biden being able to beat Trump?
BK, you say the system was set-up to ensure that....How is that different from rigged? Now you're just playing semantics.
And by your logic, Rosa Parks should have never sat at the front of the bus - she knew that she would get arrested, so why bother?
I'm not sure how I'm twisting anything. I feel like I've said the same thing over and over, I just look for different examples and ways to explain it to people who clearly don't want to understand.
So, BK, when Biden loses, will you come on here and admit that you were wrong for believing he could beat Trump?
This one is funny. I love it when people say "it's the voters fault the candidate lost because they didn't vote for the candidate".
Well, duh. That's how democracy works. You're not actually forced to vote for someone unless you feel they would be a good representative of your ideas. If the candidate does not represent your ideas, you shouldn't vote for them.
If you set up a system where you consistently put up candidates who don't represent the voting block, you can't then whine when the other party puts up a candidate that does represent their voting block and wins. Dems have been playing this half-witted game for so long it kinda seems intentional...Almost as if they have a financial interest in making sure the system continues as is.
If Rosa Parks went on a crowd-funding campaign, saying that she was going to single-handedly end Jim Crowe laws and grant civil rights to blacks in the South, I'd say she was being duplicitous. Comparing Bernie's 2016 run to Rosa Parks is kind of icky.
If and when Biden loses to Trump (and I've been saying since January 2017 that Trump will win again), it will be for a ton of factors. Some will have to do with the candidate, some with the incumbent, and many to do with the electorate. You'll chalk it up to one factor: he's a centrist, and Bernie would have won. We both know that there's no way to prove that, and it's just a falsehood.
By the way, Javs, I didn't set up the system. It's not my fault. It really isn't.
I've said over and over that the system is fucked. I don't think that the DNC should have let Bernie run as a Dem. He's an independent, and should have been a third party. Now, when only three people are running, that whole "a vote for A is really a vote for B" thing may hold true. Three's a crowd. However, if the GOP had said fuck you to Trump, and he also ran as an I, that would have changed things.
Imagine if it was Hillary vs Bernie vs Trump vs Rubio. That would have changed the system forever.
What's up with this "will you admit" crap? It's laughable. If someone is humping Biden, and he loses, what's there to admit? It's pretty clear that they were wrong. When Chile plays Argentina in soccer, your whole country is screaming "we're the best," and they lose, do they have to publicly admit they were wrong?
I'll challenge you to find one example of me saying that Biden will win. I have said that I believe he's a better candidate than Bernie (I haven't said I agree with him). I don't think either has a chance against Trump. They're both shitty candidates.
I guess Manfreed believed Biden has never tried to alter or cut social security? Even through he spent most of his career doing that. Then he said he didn't when Sanders called him on it. I mean you can look through that transcript and see that it's littered with lies from Biden. Is what it is.
you do know bernie is going up against the entire establishment, correct?
the corporate media hates him. you know this, right? i mean, as the most progressive person on this site, you should.
so put all the other shit aside, the media trashing bernie 24/7 has a massive impact on the electorate -- see the weirdsteves/ ras/thod/neds of the country.
your he isn't a dem bs is lazy thinking, and shows that you're ignoring the history of the dem party, and what they once stood for and who they represented.
Ogkb, I think we're moving on from personal attacks and condescension to real discussion. Please join us. If you disagree with my points, address them with counterpoints, not hyperbole about media bias, history, etc.
I'm trying to be objective. I've said that Bernie has a chance again, and that he clearly has done some image work in the last month. I'm very liberal on the local and state level, but age has also made me a realist, especially about the presidency.
I understand that you don't "get it," and that's fine. I look at it this way: the stability of our presidency is that it occupies the center, at least historically. It's why we have peaceful transfer of power, and that's a good thing. What sucks is that the center has moved to the right, like Obama. And, we currently have a far right POTUS with followers that are already calling for civil unrest if he loses. I don't like that. I have no problem with a more center president. It's would really like to see the center move to the left a bit, but though. I don't particularly like Biden as president, nor do I like Bernie. He's too polarizing.
Berate and lambast me for my opinion. Call me names. I don't care. It's old and tired.
I don't have time or energy to go point by point through this, but I just want to ask if anybody else has notices that Mannfred is basically a centrist Thom? Never an argument, never an opinion, just copy/paste after copy/paste. We all call out Thom on it all the time. Why not Mannfred?
Lol, Manfred. You have proved our points. Biden lobbied for those programs to be frozen when we spend billions on military aid, and federal subsidies. But he tries to make a point that stalling a benefits program is a viable option. You really don't get it obviously. He is bought and working for large companies as a contractor. Sorry you can't see that. The fact that he tries to make that argument is proof that he is what we all know he is.
Medicaid and Social Securtiy are benefits programs paid into every minute that somebody is working for a living. Don't let people fool you that for some reason it must be cut or stalled or anything of the such. It is 100% paid for by the American citizens who actually have to work everyday for a living. For it to be cut or stalled to help big business and military get more money is an absolute disgrace and a shameful part of our political system.
Of course, you came out of copy/paste retirement to hurl insults and still not acknowledge that Biden lied. Oh well, political bias is real.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my joke about Reading Comprehension skills. Seems like it's a sensitive topic for you. As a teacher I should be more respectful of people's educational soft-spots. My bad.
So Javs, in your mind voting to temporarily freeze all government spending is the same as cutting Social Security?
Personally, I think that certainly entitlements should be held sacrosanct, and I don't think it was right to add SS to the freeze. I also recognize that it was a freeze, not a cut, and he wasn't lying.
There's a certain cult-like myopia that's impossible to interact with.
>> I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my joke about Reading Comprehension skills. Seems like it's a sensitive topic for you. As a teacher I should be more respectful of people's educational soft-spots. My bad.
the bryen blair is strong in that statement. Choose wisely which group of entities you choose to emulate.
Back to SS,
1) has SS been cut before? Ever?
2) Did the generation collecting SS in 1985 benefit hugely from SS compared to the generations that followed?
" Don't let people fool you that for some reason it must be cut or stalled or anything of the such. It is 100% paid for by the American citizens who actually have to work everyday for a living. For it to be cut or stalled to help big business and military get more money is an absolute disgrace and a shameful part of our political system."
I was just busting your balls, Mannfred. Settle down. I'm glad to see you talking (writing) versus copy pasting.
A freeze means that money that was meant to go into a program is no longer put into that program. Money that was earmarked for it, is taken out of it. That is, to quote one article I posted above, tantamount to a cut. For Biden to flat out deny he ever supported a cut to the program, ergo, is a lie. Had it been just once, ok, maybe let it slip. The fact remains that over and over when there has been a budget issue he has had no quarrels in cutting that funding that was earmarked (or rather already a part of) the Social Security program. So yeah, not only did he lie, he lied about what has been almost a signature move of his.
Manfred turning to insults because he has no valid points to back up his argument. This is exactly what people don't like. Whatever guy, believe what you want. These people aren't your friends and don't hold your interests in mind u less you are a Billionaire CEO who owns assets and some kind of pull with other political figures and other rich folks. Is Bernie perfect? No. He at least wasn't trying to make things worse! Lol
Manfred, please tell me the argument for "freezing" Medicaid and Social Security. Because an older adult like you would know the answer right? Name one good reason.
Why are you bouncing around the question? And why would increasing the age be acceptable, while you're at it? The money is already there. So because the federal government has made poor investments with that money then that means people should have to retire later?
I think what that does it hold money that people have already earned while the government collects an interest and people are still breaking their backs to earn an average 11 yrs of retired life. The money is already there. It's just been poorly invested by people running the government.
Do you guys really, truly believe that Biden and Trump are interchangeable? That's kind of the crux of it. If that's what one believes, they are going to hate Biden.
I don't think that they are anywhere near to each other.
Look what I'm saying is that the cuts are unacceptable. It doesn't matter the reason. What you're saying is nothing. You actually just used a republican talking point by saying "lifespans are increasing" which is just a horrible argument for SS cuts. I will admit it's aggravating talking to people who just want to argue for the sake of arguing. It's not about winning an argument. It's about changing our bullshit government. If you can't see that then I disagree with your stand point and I think you don't realize you getting played. I personally don't know what they invest the SS trust in. Just like in my trade Union, our supposed leaders make horrible decisions with the pension funds and annuity's that we go out and break our backs for. Just like SS and Medicaid. Then you get a guy like Biden standing on the floor trying to justify cutting it and there are some people who buy it and some of don't. Mostly because the sheer numbers don't add up.
Mitt Romney would be proud of that "life expectancy" argument though lol
I'm not aware of the payroll tax going up. And that's not what I'm talking about. Increasing the age of retirement is sleazy way of the fed keep our money for longer. When people try to "freeze" SS, that is a cut. My definition of a cut is funding being diverted or not being outlayed to the public so yes keeping the age higher would in some way reduce the federal spending which would give you a cut in SS spending.
So is the payroll tax a cut? Well let's talk about that, logically. It's money coming out of your in pocket total. And that's coming from every American who actually works for a living. So if the total which is in the SS trust is being fucked around with invested like shit then that tax increase goes to East because at the beginning of each year they will decide which federal programs to try and hold funding for which will make it look like they are saving money from the deficit but on the other hand you have ridiculous increases in military spending and federal subsidies which heavily out weigh SS spending. So Is it a cut of out your in the pocket cash? Yes, just like every tax. Now just imagine for a second though where we lived in a world where a bunch of assholes weren't lobbying for big oil and war mongers and we had a trust that we didn't have to worry about being on a bill to be cut for these assholes. Then the payroll tax would be worth what you pay into it.
The SS is our investment as working citizens. The government pretty much has their control and say of what happens to it. I don't claim to know all the answers but why would they try to cut a program in which is already paid for and earning them money? Well, usually it's because they making poor decisions with that money. If we made good decisions with money the. We would be trillions of dollars in debt right now. You and I don't know what the SS trust gets cycled into because we are privelaged to that information in our average day media. We get fed a bunch of bullshit that isn't as important as to what these asswipes are really doing with our money.
He wa trying to save it because the people who were in charge of the money obviously fucked it all up! Lol. Dude you don't get it I guess. He has to make compromises just like anyone else. He's hade to vote for th e lesser of two evils many times. He just doesn't advocate and lobby for it when it's not needed
You are arguing for the sake of arguing but you have no real point. You like Biden? Then vote for him. But it seems you don't really understand government spending as well as your trying to portray it. Your supposed to more than us younger guys, I thought?
Mind you, at least for me, the original essence of this tangent of this thread was not about whether or not you agreed with or disagreed with certain SS cuts. It was about whether or not Old Joe lied. I'm pretty clear on the fact that he did. He did vote to cut SS not just in 85 during the Reagan era but on three or four separate occasions. And when Bernie cornered him about it, he flat out lied. So, two key points stand out from this thread and that's that the Bidenistas are willing to vote for a guy who flat out lies about his policy record and who can't even make a personal comment regarding a sexual assault accusation.
So the question is not whether one sees no difference between Trump and Biden in terms of policy per se (though arguably, the differences are minor). The main thing that binds them is a lack of integrity and that's what Bernie brings to the equation - integrity. If I knew of a centrist of right winger or whoever who displayed integrity and honesty in their political career, I would find that worthy of highlighting and praising. I don't expect everyone to agree with my political ideas. But I do expect politicians to uphold a certain standard as paid representatives of voters. And I expect voters to hold them up to those standards. If there was a candidate who was all for the things that I like but was willing to lie and weasel their way to get there, I wouldn't vote for them. I, and many others, have said enough is enough. No more fucking lying and weaseling and selling policy favors to the highest bidder. It's time voters start holding candidates to a higher standard.
bk i didn't attack you. you forget you're just as nasty as the rest of us. you're no different here man, you're no better, even if you convinced yourself you are. anyway....
i get it -- you don't think a progressive can or should be president. you didn't vote obama even tho we were going from W to potentially another war monger in mccain. strange imo, especially since obama is a bit more liberal than biden (who you'll be voting for in november, correct?)
bernies too polarizing and biden is accused of rape -- where's that leave you?
also you say the dnc didn't cheat in 2016, that bernie knew he couldn't win and therefore never should have run and duped millions of people into donating -- strange logic imo, but ok. if bernie didn't run in 2016, we wouldn't be talking about progressive policy on a national level -- do you understand that?
bernie's attempt to bring the dem party back to representing the working class is often mocked by centrists and fake progressives, but it's what needs to happen if the dems want the presidency ever again.
>> the Bidenistas are willing to vote for a guy who flat out lies about his policy record and who can't even make a personal comment regarding a sexual assault accusation. <<
I'm not going to comment on an allegation from 1993 that I have very limited information on. It would be pure speculation based on limited facts, no?
When it comes to him lying, politics is called Dirty Business for a reason. I will cautiously accept Biden's current platform as his intended platform, just like Bernie's and Trump's. I don't like Trump's platform, at all. Biden's platform is acceptable. Bernie's is lofty and made him lose many primaries. If only Bernie had moved slightly to the middle he would have captured many more votes. His loss.
No, ogkb, I'm nothing like you. Nobody here is. Go ahead and justify your behavior by convincing yourself that you're just doing what everyone is. It doesn't make it so.
If you actually read what I've been writing, rather than being so damn reactionary, you'd know that I credit Bernie with moving the Party platform to the left. If that was his goal in 2016, it should have been stated as such. That's just my opinion. Now, call me names, accuse me of shit, you do you.
>>you've been saying the same shit for years, literally.
>>talk about denial. wow.
Now go say that to yourself in the mirror, "ogkb" dude. Can't even read the threads you're always vomiting upon, for reals...take a long lap. You aren't going to "win" around here, breh. Don't bother responding to me, I probably won't be back to this shitpile of a thread.
I believe that someone is innocent until proven otherwise. At the time I reserved judgment until there was due process, and for Kavanaugh there was. Of course, it turned out to be a kangaroo court, and regardless of what came out in the hearings, he was going to be found innocent by the stacked jury. In that case, though, I got to hear compelling testimony that was very believable. On top of that, one of my oldest friends went to that same high school. He was a few years behind Kavanaugh, and said that it was well known that Kavanaugh and his friends would do shit like that. So yeah, I have plenty of info to believe her.
I would like to see some sort of due process for Biden so that we can learn more. Until then, I have no idea what happened.
one of the major differences is coverage. it's almost nonexistent w/ biden, whereas kavanaugh, and rightfully so, was plastered all over every corporate news outlet and independent news nation wide.
biden has kept this closed for a long time, being as high profile as he is -- and the position he's running for demands dem voters and voters in general know the truth. just like kavanaugh.
what do you want me to say to bernie? fuck you asshole bernie!
is that better?
yes, he should've never endorsed -- was that ever an option? fuck no. can he rescind? of course. will he have to? idk, maybe.
but the media is doing a great job of normalizing rape for biden and asshole like you and ned, so go ahead, melt down and vote for the rapist -- we all know you of all people.......yeah.
bernie is not my hero, like you have stated. he has to play the game, you don't get that? it's totally fucked up, and why bernie didn't make it. too nice.
btw -- everything i've ever said here, i'd say to your face. no problem.
It's an obvious Linda Tripp dealeeeeo w/o the jizz dress. I've checked out this story and to anyone with an ounce of common sence it's a smear job 101.
The 3 people she said she told when it 1st happened were interviewed, they all said she never told them anything of the kind, nothing at all, no sexual assault, nada. Are they lying ? She mentioned bullying at work never once mentioning Biden. Said at the time she had 'great respect for the senator'. Would you say that if someone forced themselves on you and diddled your piddle ? It wasn't till years later the story morphed into a shove up against the wall. Riiiiiiiiight bro, she's believable. Nothing mentioned when Joe was VP one step from the presidency, but now this. Please wake up pyro, you don't seem like a bad guy at all, so why play devil's advocate all the fuckin time ? Or are you seriously that thought process challenged ? 100% a repub smear job a blind man can see
Pyramid, the choice is simple, either Biden or Trump will win the general election. You seem unable or unwilling to understand this fact.
>by now you're still standing w/ biden. you have issues>
One issue, the Supreme Court.
I care about the court because its decisions will affect all of society for generations.
If Trump wins a second term he will not only stack the Supreme Court with a Conservative majority, he will also continue to pack the appeals court with unqualified judges.
I have stated this multiple times, but you seem far too myopic to understand.
It must really illustrate to you the injustices of the world to know that someone like me will always have more than a low IQ blow hard like you, and I'm not talking about material things.
What is it like to be always wrong, with your only recourse to be all lashy outy towards people who know more, have experienced more, and are generally better people?
..biden claims 'national archives' would have record of the incident documented but they don't keep those records its up to the senator and staff . He knows that
We have people comparing this situation with that of Christine Blasey Ford. While sexual harassment and assault know no boundaries, and happens all too frequently to women of all socio-economic standing and cultural backgrounds, and obviously is a scourge that shouldn't happen at all, I think the stark differences in the two situations and the credibility of the women will be scrutinized.
Wikipedia reports Ford is an American professor of psychology at Palo Alto University and a research psychologist at the Stanford University School of Medicine. She specializes in designing statistical models for research projects. During her academic career, Ford has worked as a professor at the Stanford University School of Medicine Collaborative Clinical Psychology Program. For her life story and credentials, the link is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford
Ms. Reade has a much different past and history. I'm not sure of the rock solid credentials of these reporters and haven't verified all the information (check it out for yourself but there were no results on Snopes), but they have come up with a few interesting tidbits and they are here. https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstein While I admire greatly getting through law school and as a single mom, they allege Ms. Read has a couple of hundred thousand dollars in law school tuition bills outstanding (need a book deal?), and ripped off a non-profit she worked with, and had asked them to hide a vehicle of hers that was in danger of repossession. We already know her narrative seems to have changed. Thus far, the only thing to go on is here is her word that it happened and that she told others her story. There's no way to conclude whether or not she made up the story, and if it was after being let go. She has no record of her official complaint to the Senate and can't remember when or where it happened. This link above has a story that shows a progression of her statements about Joe Biden. While she is free to have whatever political views she wants, her tweets in support of Vladimir Putin add a dimension to her story that she may be part of an effort to affect the US election, which I'm sure Vlad would like his puppet Donnie to win.
So while I'm sure I'll be attacked by some as being anti-women and not being sensitive enough to the allegations (the women in my life will tell you quite different), I think the difference in credibility of the players involved and their motives may be a topic for discussion. Especially after the NY Times sent two women reporters to investigate and they interviewed about 40 people with no real corroboration and no evidence of a complaint, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexu... and Politico and Andrea Mitchell of NBC report little support and verification from the people Ms. Reade said to talk to. Ms. Blasey Ford, who had been silent for years while she continually enhanced her reputation as a scholar, came forward to report when she saw her accused attacker considered for a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. Ms. Reade has had multiple opportunities to tell her story during Mr. Biden's ascent to the Vice-Presidency and until this year, did not pursue them as vigilantly as she is now. It will be interesting to see what happens when the bright lights of the media shine on the life of Ms. Reade as they did on Ms. Blasey Ford.
Hey, you guys have a good day. I'm off to hunt dandelions and try and get some home chores done before it rains.
Editor’s Note: Tara Reade responded Saturday to an Associated Press tweet about this story that read, “Tara Reade says a Senate report she filed against Joe Biden didn’t refer to sexual harassment or assault.” Reade responded, without elaborating, “This is false.”
WASHINGTON (AP) — Tara Reade, the former Senate staffer who alleges Joe Biden sexually assaulted her 27 years ago, says she filed a limited report with a congressional personnel office that did not explicitly accuse him of sexual assault or harassment.
“I remember talking about him wanting me to serve drinks because he liked my legs and thought I was pretty and it made me uncomfortable,” Reade said in an interview Friday with The Associated Press. “I know that I was too scared to write about the sexual assault.”
Reade said she described her issues with Biden but “the main word I used — and I know I didn’t use sexual harassment — I used ‘uncomfortable.’ And I remember ‘retaliation.’”
Reade described the report after the AP discovered additional transcripts and notes from its interviews with Reade last year in which she says she “chickened out” after going to the Senate personnel office. The AP interviewed Reade in 2019 after she accused Biden of uncomfortable and inappropriate touching. She did not raise allegations of sexual assault against Biden until this year, around the time he became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.
The existence of the Senate report has become a key element of the accusations against Biden, which he has flatly denied. Reade says she doesn’t have a copy of the report, and Biden said Friday that he is not aware that any complaint against him exists. He asked the Senate and the National Archives to search their records to try to locate a complaint from Reade.
But Reade is suggesting that even if the report surfaces, it would not corroborate her assault allegations because she chose not to detail them at the time.
More...
During one of the April 2019 interviews with the AP, she said Biden rubbed her shoulders and neck and played with her hair. She said she was asked by an aide in Biden’s Senate office to dress more conservatively and told “don’t be so sexy.”
She said of Biden: “I wasn’t scared of him, that he was going to take me in a room or anything. It wasn’t that kind of vibe.”
It's amazing that you act like you know what happened. It's my story, I told it here, and you've somehow made shit up and have now ran with your own fantasies for a few years. In doing so you've lied about me, called me names, trolled me, whatever. The fact remains, you're using your own lies to justify acting like you do. That's not normal.
You've admitted that your an asshole. I'm not convinced. Based on how you act towards me and others, I'd just say that at best there's something wonky in your head.
You made up the part about me "having to leave." You make up a lot of shit.
Meanwhile, you're a 30 year old who constantly trolls dudes the same age as your parents, spewing lies, mistruths, and generally being a douche. Day in and day out, bro. That's your lifestyle, in the here and now, every day.. You are "that guy," and probably the creepiest mofo on this site.
He's just being a troll, Trebor. Instead of focusing on a topic, he's fixated on some fantasy story that he made up, based on one post I made over 5 years ago. Over and over, he keeps spewing the mistruth, like he "knows." Who the fuck acts like that? I told the fucking story a long time ago. It was inconsequential, yet a few dudes have latched on to it like total freaks.
Meanwhile, does anyone who isn't a Berniebro or a Trumpbot actually believe that there's merit to the scam artist's sexual harassment claims? She was a known scam artist long before her ever changing Biden accusations. Anyone besides the BernieBros or Trumpbots actually believe that Trump - a self professed pussy grabber - is a better option than Biden?
Like Nancy said, at this point, nobody cares except fringe butt hurt Bernie bro's looking for a win and vindication after a string of losses and Trumpists. All of it still won't prevent Biden's landslide victory come November - which I know bothers people like p heat to no end.
"where things stand now, it’s hard to compare Blasey’s case with Reade’s. Blasey had four sworn affidavits from people whom she’d told that she’d been assaulted, as well as therapist’s notes and the results from a polygraph. She testified, and was cross-examined, under oath. The Democratic plea, at the time, was for a thorough F.B.I. investigation... If Ford had written anything like Reade's tweet anticipating that her charge would help Sanders defeat Biden ("Yup. timing..wait for it... tick tock"), Democrats would have fled her case en masse." Making the argument that liberals are hypocrites for not immediately supporting Reade reeks of Republican propaganda, not an honest exploration of the facts.
Where exactly do you get your info from bro, because its lies. To not possess the ability to decipher truth from lies is a brain flaw far too common in the internet age. Sad
The PBS NewsHour spoke with 74 former Biden staffers, of whom 62 were women, in order to get a broader picture of his behavior toward women over the course of his career, how they see the new allegation, and whether there was evidence of a larger pattern.
None of the people interviewed said that they had experienced sexual harassment, assault or misconduct by Biden. All said they never heard any rumors or allegations of Biden engaging in sexual misconduct, until the recent assault allegation made by Tara Reade.Former staffers said they believed Reade should be heard, and acknowledged that their experiences do not disprove her accusation.
In all, the NewsHour tried to contact nearly 200 former staffers of Biden’s, based primarily on public records of his time in the Senate and White House and also from interviews with current campaign advisers. They include former interns and senior aides, from his 1972 Senate campaign through his time at the White House.
Some are still in politics, others left long ago to pursue other careers. They were asked about Reade’s allegation but also whether they, or anyone they know, were ever uncomfortable around Biden. Many said that her sexual assault allegation was at odds with their knowledge of Biden’s behavior toward women.
The interviews revealed previously unreported details about the Biden office when Reade worked there, such as an account that she lost her job because of her poor performance, not as retaliation for lodging complaints about sexual harassment, as Reade has said.
Other recollections from former staffers corroborated things she has described publicly, such as Biden’s use of the Senate gym and a supervisor admonishing her for dressing inappropriately.
Overall, the people who spoke to the NewsHour described largely positive and gratifying experiences working for Biden, painting a portrait of someone who was ahead of his time in empowering women in the workplace.
“The one thing about Joe Biden is, he is a man of the highest character and that’s why these accusations are so surreal and just can’t comport with the man I worked with,” said Marcia Lee Taylor, a senior policy advisor on the Judiciary Committee, where women held leading roles when Biden served as chairman.
Reade declined the NewsHour’s interview request but her attorney, Doug Wigdor, sent detailed answers to a number of questions by email.He wrote that Biden’s public touching is evidence that he couldhave mistreated his client in the way she claims.
“I don’t think anyone would describe these situations as normal,” Wigdor wrote. “They are troublesome, to say the least.”
Many former Biden staffers said they believe Reade’s allegation is false.
The NewsHour spoke with more than 20 people who worked for Biden when Reade was also a staffer. Some remembered her, many did not.
Ben Savage, who said his desk was next to Reade’s in the Biden mailroom, disputed her charge that she was forced out of her job in retaliation for a sexual harassment complaint she claims to have filed.
Savage, who worked as the office’s systems administrator, overseeing computers and information processing, told the NewsHour that Reade was fired for her poor performance on the job, which he witnessed — not as retaliation for her complaints about sexual harassment.
But according to Savage, Reade had been mishandling a key part of her job and an essential office task — processing constituent mail, something they worked on together. Savage said he recalls reporting these issues to his boss, deputy chief of staff Dennis Toner. After that, Savage said he began diminishing Reade’s duties, taking over some of her tasks and rerouting parts of the process to exclude her.
“Of all the people who held that position, she’s the only one during my time there who couldn’t necessarily keep up or who found it frustrating,” said Savage, who worked in the office for three years, from 1993 to 1996.
Reade’s attorney told the NewsHour that Reade recalls the assault happening “in a semiprivate area like an alcove” and that it was “somewhere between the Russell (building) and/or Capitol building.” He pointed out that survivors often have difficulty with specifics about trauma.
Reade’s description aligns with other staffers’ recollections of Biden’s short indoor route between his office and the Capitol. It is a roughly 10-minute walk that consists of one flight of stairs and one long hallway inside the Russell Building, followed by a wide tunnel through which he could walk or take an internal subway train to the Capitol.
The layout of that route and building has not changed. A recent walk through that area showed the subway tunnel contains no out-of-view areas, like an alcove. The remaining portion of the route includes multiple stairwells as well as corridors lined with offices. It is a main thoroughfare for senators and staffers.
Some former staffers told the NewsHour that if Biden did assault Reade in any of these places, it would have been a brazen attack in an area with a high risk of being seen.
In interviews, staffers have also raised doubts about Reade’s claim that she was asked to serve drinks at a fundraiser, an incident she said she included in an official complaint of sexual harassment submitted while she worked in the office.
But more than 50 former staffers said they didn’t remember ever attending a fundraiser for Biden in Washington, D.C., when they were on his Senate staff. And some recalled an office policy banning most of Biden’s Senate staff from doing campaign work.
“Never would have happened,” said Melissa Lefko, who was a staff assistant in Biden’s office during the time Reade was there. “We all knew there was a very hard line there.”
Further, two men who worked as junior staffers for Biden said the senator specifically did not want women to serve beverages, like coffee, or perform other menial tasks in his Senate office or on the committees he chaired. Men were typically asked to perform such tasks.
“He didn’t want an image of a young woman staffer serving him,” said John Earnhardt, who took over Reade’s duties. Reade left the office in mid-1993, after working there approximately nine months.
Biden’s office was known for having women-friendly work policies. For example, he promoted at least one Senate staffer while she was on maternity leave. As vice president, he helped secure paid family leave for White House employees.
Female staffers who spent countless hours with Biden, including in one-on-one settings, like his small private office in the U.S. Capitol, known as a “hideaway,” said he never made passes at them or behaved in other ways that suggested sexual impropriety.
Victoria Nourse, who served as Biden’s top lawyer on the Judiciary Committee in the early 1990s, recalled Biden’s reaction when another official made a comment about her looks in front of Biden during a flight in 1991. The man said, “‘Oh Joe, let me sit next to the pretty girl,’” recalled Nourse, who later served as Biden’s chief counsel in the White House.
Biden told the man off, Nourse said, “making it clear that we were here for work, and that was inappropriate — in a very no nonsense way.”
“I traveled with him all over the world, all over the country. I was alone with him all the time,” said Elizabeth Alexander, a former Senate and White House aide. “Never, ever, ever did I feel uncomfortable.”
Wouldn't be surprised, given her tweets praising Putin. He definitely has a dog in this hunt.
In some of the research I've done, I seem to remember she had about $200,000 in tuition debt from law school (never took the bar I guess).
Being she described her occupation as a "freelance writer", seems like it would be a challenge, something a book deal or a gift from a fat cat republican donor might help with.
Wonder if someone at the college would spill the beans about recent payments?
Tara is irrelevant because the BernieBros were never going to vote for Biden or whoever won the nomination,unless it was their dear Bernie. The Tara narrative just gives them an excuse to be vocal about how they're going to vote Green or write in Bernie.
2016 Redux, only this time they look even more ridiculous doing Putin's bidding. Good news is most Bernie supporters have wised up since 2016, and more people will vote for the Democratic nominee because the alternative is just not an option. That's assuming the Trump regime doesn't cancel the elections or make it impossible to vote by mail.
it is funny tho how pointing out how pelosi/dems are fucking the working class w/ trump by robbing the country in plain sight and giving it to the elites, and take biden's proposed healthcare plan not changing a thing or helping the people that need it -- the vote blue no matter who crowd complete silence.
y'all got nothing on that. you just take it to the face, burry it, and tell berniebro and post a meme.
Those pledging their vote for Biden aren't centrists, necessarily- more likely realists who don't wish to see the Trump regime continue to destroy our country.
BernieBros would rather see the country destroyed for the sake of their 'revolution' - because that worked out so well for them in 2016..
Why does Biden keep telling people not to vote for him if he really wants to beat trump? "Don't vote for me if you don't like it" is becoming his catch phrase.
He is saying that because her claim is so transparently false that you have to an IQ of a mentally challenged 7 year old to believe her which would place one squarely in the Trump voter zone anyway.
A lot of privi white males like Woz are trying to shame a woman's story of sexual abuse. These people are literally the same as the trumpers they claim to be against. That's right Woz, after all your talk and your bullshit you are no different than any trump supporter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
has anyone? lol
has anyone? lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Denny
Yes, says it never happened.
Yes, says it never happened. I not sure that a man's 1st move is to go for bush, maybe a 14yr old boy. Here is an article on it.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
#votebluenomatterwhorapesyou
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Maybe Dise prefers Trump to
Maybe Dise prefers Trump to get 4 more years. Is that what you want, Dise?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
#nedhominem
#nedhominem
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
“What if I told you that
“What if I told you that everything you learned about Russia was wrong?” [Reade] had written in one 2018 post. “President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader. … To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love. To all my Russian friends, happy holiday and Happy New Year.”
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/joe-biden-metoo-times-up/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://www.nbcnews.com
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-voters-helped-tru...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Not an attack...simply a
Not an attack...simply a question.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Admittedly, I'm hoping this
Admittedly, I'm hoping this isn't the hurtful issue it could be for Biden and his campaign, but I'm also respectful of women and women's rights.
But two things I wonder. The pro-Russia writings lead to some questions of motive and more. (Bryen's GF?) Dirty tricks and manipulation will be happening, cause Putin wants Trump.
Also, how does someone get to digital penetration without there being quite a bit of action beforehand, as if Joe just came up and kissed her and fingered her or something? Hmmmm.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Putin is still working to
Putin is still working to divide us and playing the BernieBros like a fiddle.
walks like a Russian asset, talks like a Russian asset:
>In particular, critics pointed to that now-deleted 2018 Medium post in which Reade called Putin “a compassionate, caring, visionary leader” and said, “To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love.”
In the same post, she wrote that she left government work in her 20s in part because “I love Russia with all my heart” and “I could not stand to watch the deception and xenophobia that came from my own American government.”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
It's a pretty stupid question
I asked a reasonable question, I guess it makes some of guys uncomfortable?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Thanks Denny!
Thanks Denny!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
The centrists won’t dare
The centrist sheeple won’t dare acknowledge his senility either willows
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Let's not forget, the same
Let's not forget, the same Bernie bro's also got played in 2016 to believe HRC was no different than Trump. All Putin has to do is say corporate dem or centrist and y'all run to your feeding troughs to divide the party. Proves once again that the far right and far left have more similarities than differences.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
jesus h christ you two give
jesus h christ you two give it a rest.
all the swing hole states are full of bernie voters?
your shit is stale.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
jesus h christ you two give
jesus h christ you two give it a rest.
all the swing hole states are full of bernie voters?
your shit is stale.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
This probably puts a little
This probably puts a little kink in his "always believe women" stance.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
> some of guys uncomfortable?
> some of guys uncomfortable?
Single data points make me uncomfortable. Life is much too rich, complex, and messy to draw conclusions before doing some research.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Sad that a lot of people are
Sad that a lot of people are willing to write off Biden's actions. It's actually just embarrassing for guys like Ned and JR. You guys are pathetic.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Baby boomer males are pretty
Baby boomer males are pretty willing to look past sexual assault actions for a Democrat, Dise. That's exactly what Ned is saying. He just doesn't realize it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
hahaha centrists like ned
hahaha centrists like ned will now knowingly vote for a sexual predator, like trump, b/c his candidate "isn't as bad", even tho trump has been a lifelong dem up until 2016, and biden is GOP-lite.
hahahaha justify it anyway you'd like.
supporting a sexual predator like biden, who raped a woman, is totally fucked up.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
<<<>>>Maybe Dise prefers
<<<>>>Maybe Dise prefers Trump to get 4 more years. Is that what you want, Dise?
ned is saying choose your rapist!
sad and shameful.
in fact, viva admin should send out warning emails for posting what ned did.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
They finally reached the same
They finally reached the same exact low as republicans who voted for Trump. Congrats guys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bucky Badger
>>>>supporting a sexual
>>>>supporting a sexual predator like biden, who raped a woman, is totally fucked up.
is that what happened? Biden raped someone?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Stop melting on my slippers,
Stop melting on my slippers, guys!
No, stupid, I'm not endorsing rape or sexual assault. You two are the worst.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
^No, but you are.
^No, but you are.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
4 More Years....
4 More Years....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Ned, you're way too much of a
You guys are the worst>>>
We're not the ones trying to look past sexual molestation accusations. Ned is confused.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Four years for your sexual
Four years for your sexual predator or the other one?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I'm not looking past anything
I'm not looking past anything. You are convicting and admonishing a little too early, methinks.
If he's guilty of the act, it truly is a disqualifier. Let's see what truth is there.
Meanwhile, tRump bangs hookers when his wife's home with the baby, and you are Ok with him just to prove Bernie deserved to be the Dem nominee. You want Biden to lose for your own self-interest. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Sad stuff from Biden guys
Sad stuff from Biden guys here. Keep going, let's see him much you guys can justify Biden's actions to make yourselves feel comfortable.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Do you want trump out, or not
Do you want trump out, or not?
((( slippery people )))
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>>>>If he's guilty of the
>>>>>If he's guilty of the act, it truly is a disqualifier. Let's see what truth is there.
Trump wasn't disqualified. He isn't going to be charged while he's president and if Biden wins he won't be removed for any wrong doings. You guys give passes to political royalty.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Cool down, Ned. Stop acting
Cool down, Ned. Stop acting crazy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
<<<>>>Meanwhile, tRump bangs
<<<>>>Meanwhile, tRump bangs hookers when his wife's home with the baby, and you are Ok with him just to prove Bernie deserved to be the Dem nominee. You want Biden to lose for your own self-interest. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
haha! wow. fucking hookers and what biden did aren't the same thing, ned. jesus man.
and trump is a serial sexual predator -- no shit. fuck that guy.
ned pushing 3.8.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Hi Ned, do you think trump is
Hi Ned, do you think trump is going to lose to Biden?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
ned? ..........
ned?
..........
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
It's out of our hands. Trumps
It's out of our hands. Trumps response to COVID-19, the length of the shut-down and resulting economy will determine the results. If he actually manages this thing even halfway competently he will defeat any opponent.
What do you think?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
I think a lot balances on who
I think, assuming he's still alive and the nominee in 2020, a lot balances on how he handles the sexual assault allegations and who Biden chooses for VP. If he goes with a progressive, and manages to stay clean...he'll maybe win. If he goes with a born-again progressive, or a centrist, I don't think he has a prayer. From what I've seen, trump isn't losing voters no matter how badly he's managing the pandemic, so I doubt Biden will pick up regretful trump voters (if they exist in numbers that matter - I haven't seen evidence).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
^ I agree.
^ I agree.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Denny
Trump will lose voters when
Trump will lose voters when they start dying after following him and faux news bullshit for 6 weeks. Take for instance the villages in Florida, you may know of it.
This is the place where retirees live in comfort in central Florida driving around in golf carts. When the nationwide shut down started, they were on the news dancing cheek to cheek and playing soft ball, not at the same time, and scoffing at the virus. Guess where there is a huge outbreak now. The median age is 72. They started social distancing last week.
if 100,000 Americans die, who takes the blame, President it's just flu, the dems. Won't be uncle Joe!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Denny
https://www.theatlantic.com
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-c...
Thinning the herd
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
crazy article denny.
crazy article denny.
old conservatives...oh well when they get sick, they have big houses to stay in...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
so where are all the people
so where are all the people here that were up in arms over justice kavanaugh getting the nomination, yet biden forcefully fingered a staffer in 1993, and not a peep.
strange.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I have empathy for you,
I have empathy for you, heater. It must be hard being proven wrong, repeatedly, for months. I understand your lashy-outy-ness. It's a natural human reaction.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
ned, you're one of em.
ned, you're one of em.
you're disgusting.
daddy had to tell you who to vote for. lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Trump doesn't need voters. So
Trump doesn't need voters. So hard watching you guys go through this shit. Trump only
needs Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio. He doesn't need any voters at all. He just needs the same votes as he got last time when he completely obliterated Hilary in the electoral college. Trumps approval rating and media appearances are through the roof while Biden is literally gone. Didn't work in 2016 for Hilary and it won't work this time lol. Unlikely that he will even get PA in the general. Enjoy your pipe dreams guys
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Where's Bernie? lol
Where's Bernie? lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Ned, still just bouncing
Ned, still just bouncing around the allegations at hand and to much of a coward to address them. Classic stuff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^haha that proves everything
^^haha that proves everything we've always said.
sad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Bernie has been working his
Bernie has been working his ass off and has been in the media a lot actually. Where have you been, Ned? Medicare for all has been at the forefront of almost every news outlet in the US.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I already addressed the
I already addressed the allegation. Maybe take a walk, guys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> Bernie has been working
>> Bernie has been working his ass off and has been in the media a lot actually <<
Where....Democracy Now?
I haven't seen him in over a week. Both he and Biden are at a media disadvantage right now, understandably.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Are you feeling ok? Bernie
Are you feeling ok? Bernie been everywhere bud. Maybe wake up. You're pretty out the loop, guy. And no you haven't addressed it. How do you feel that the person you support likes to grope females against their own will, Ned?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
No, you're just blind lol. He
No, you're just blind lol. Bernie has in the media constantly for being at the forefront of pushing through the largest stimulus package in federal history.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Ned must be drinking. The
Ned must be drinking. The largest stimulus package in American history gets past in the Senate with Bernie leading the way lobbying for workers to get paid sick leave, healthcare and unemployment benefits but he somehow missed that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
ned hates the one national
ned hates the one national politician that's pushing for healthcare for all during a pandemic.
tough stuff right there man. damn.
while supporting a sexual predator.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Wonder Twin Powers...Activate
Wonder Twin Powers...Activate!
Nice to see the daily talking points are getting to your Inbox.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
>>I asked a reasonable
>>I asked a reasonable question
No, you weren't, since it's already been investigated and debunked. But look what it did to Pheat and Tim Pane, exactly as planned.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
ok centrists, you got your
ok centrists, you got your centrist candidate.
he is going to get pounded by orange musolini.
congrats?
good job repeating 4 years ago.
all the naysayers and cheerleaders, you will literally have blood on your hands.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
biden can't complete a
biden can't complete a thought.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1244696501282054147?s=21
funny, biden's sr. political advisor, symone sanders, deleted all of her kavanaugh tweets.
gravy doesn't believe women?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/joe-biden-sexual-assault-a...
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/joe-biden-metoo-times-up/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
for ned and co:
for ned and co:
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/3/tara-reade-joe-biden-me-too-bernie-sanders...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Some of y'all are acting like
Some of y'all are acting like sore losers. Bernie got trounced. It was no corporate media conspiracy or centrist takeover of the party. Just a plain old ass kicking. Let's all act like grown ups, cut the bullshit and all move in the same direction to get the evil out. Maybe Liz Warren for VP?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
i guess we can't have nice
i guess we can't have nice things yet...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
Krystal and Saagar: Joe Biden
Krystal and Saagar: Joe Biden CRUSHED in key polling metric
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Polling numbers right now are
Polling numbers right now are highly skewed by COVID. For the first time, Trump's approval rating is higher than his disapproval. He's showing higher support from both Democrats and Independents. They call it the "rally around the flag effect." Plus, he's getting all the air-time that anyone could ask for.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
^ centrists please see above
^ centrists please see above dissection of the situation, thanks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Yep same thing happened in
Yep same thing happened in 2004.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Turtle, that's just an
Turtle, that's just an objective view, and has nothing to do with who the candidate is. It's a phenomenon that happens during a crisis. History has shown that it wouldn't really matter who he was polling against.
Whatever though. If you need Trump to be winning, at this moment, because Biden is a flawed candidate, go with it. I'm not going to argue it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Turtle should just start
Turtle should just start panhandling. Then he’ll get his “nice things” handout he whines about.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Bernie bros are taking credit
Bernie bros are taking credit of the 500 billion corporate bailout? Sweet.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I bet that if you took a
I bet that if you took a random sampling of 100,000 adult Americans and asked them who Tara Reade is, 75% would scratch their head, 20% would say "the blonde chick from American Pie," and the rest, the news junkies, would know what's going on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
panhandle...like corporations
panhandle...like corporations do are doing?
lol. next.
too bad that a company that made $10k ventilators for $3k got bought up by a medical company that squashed that, because you know....profit/greed/wall st...
if you objective and reasonable people would listen to some of that hill link, you'd maybe have a better understanding of the current political climate and reality facing someone trying to defeat trump.
$1200 for people, one time. that's not going to help anyone with real debt or laid off from their jobs. people in the so called gig economy, working multiple jobs, still reeling from the 2008 collapse.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Mr_timpane on Monday, March 30, 2020 – 11:03 am
No, you're just blind lol. Bernie has in the media constantly for being at the forefront of pushing through the largest stimulus package in federal history
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
There are three main points
There are three main points in that Hill piece: there's no excitement for Biden, and that he's a flawed and unvetted candidate. The third is that Trump as incumbent, comes in stronger, and he has coded to tear Biden apart. I don't disagree with any of that.
I do question the lack of analysis on the "excitement" point. Is anyone excited about anything right now? Yeah, Biden isn't that exciting to start, but I doubt if there'd be [widespread] excitement for anyone right now.
Here's a pretty good analysis. I hate to say that because of the source, but it's actually worth a read because it's more news than opinion: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-enthusiasm-polls-trump
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
“Ned must be drinking. The
“Ned must be drinking. The largest stimulus package in American history gets past in the Senate with Bernie leading the way lobbying for workers to get paid sick leave, healthcare and unemployment benefits but he somehow missed that. “
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
racket thinks bernie makes
racket thinks bernie makes all the rules, and that he's not fighting literally everybody else, even his own "team", just so the working class gets their less than basic benefits/pay during world crisis situations, instead of absolutely nothing.
fucking idiot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
^Do you have a point
^^Do you have a point somewhere?
JR looks like he is definitely ready to elect his favorite sexual molester
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
If he really was the messiah
If he really was the messiah he would have voted no.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
lol those are your trashwhore
lol those are your trashwhore words.
nobody else has said that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Stimulus package was
Stimulus package was definitely bullshit. Bernie was fighting for the additional 600$ for unemployment benefits and he succeed at that. The large companies got there way once again. Another large hand and finger point to the various large problems and issues in the broken American political system.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Bernie ain't no messiah. All
Bernie ain't no messiah. All he can do is make things the very slightest bit better when he can. That's it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Bernie is just another
Bernie is just another blowhard. 30 years of all talk no action. Except for maybe a post office or two.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Bernie is just another
If he was down for his shit, he would’ve voted no. He started to go that route, but bitched out like normal.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
racket who is your preference
racket who is your preference? you never answer the question you toolbag.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
In the last 4 years alone,
In the last 4 years alone, Bernie moved the platform of the Democratic Party to the left. That's hardly doing nothing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
If he had "no action" then we
If he had "no action" then we wouldn't be sitting here talking about him. Run along back to your senior nap fuck boy. Take JR and Ned with you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
So let's look at it from your
So let's look at it from your views racket. Yes he could have blocked the bill. Then weeks go by and no type of relief for anyone continues, and next it's months and then what? He is out there there with one or two other senators on the same level fighting for the same things. He did what could. That's it. Wasn't what he wanted. It's what he was able to work with it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
racket blames bernie then
racket blames bernie then votes centrist dem no problem. lol. what's the issue exactly?
maybe racket actually likes bernie. strange guy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Sure BK, with no substance.
..
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Sure BK, with no substance.
Sure BK, with no substance. You promise the world and the sheep follow. His record proves he is nothing but a blowhard.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Racket, can you prove that
Racket, can you prove that you've supported anything?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^racket who do you support?
racket who do you support?
or are you embarrassed to say trump?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
All the thought and time you
All the thought and time you spend in hating Bernie and the most sophisticated argument you can come up is "he's a blowhard".
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
------racket searching for
------racket searching for the perfect meme-----
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
bernie moved the agenda,
bernie moved the agenda, again.
while biden was looking for his notes...
just a shame.
if bernie doesn't compromise more people, you know, us citizens will be further economically fucked as well as small businesses. people can and are fucking dying because of this shit. really have the political sophistication of a 4th grader.
thanks for taking the time to listen to that piece bk.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
I'll say it one more time:
I'll say it one more time: stop being such sore losers and show a little class/deference to the side that one; it's called good sportsmanship.
"The true colors of a man are shown by what they do after defeat."
- JR, co-founder of philzone jr admin
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
What can I do to help Joe
What can I do to help Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump?
can you say that timpane?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
^Maybe go find him a young
^Maybe go find him a young intern? That might get those old juices moving.
Too soon?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
The guy that lives in one of
Turtle the political scholar. Far out maaaaaan.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
I'll say it one more time:
are you going to take your own advice if trump wins?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
You guys are something.....
You guys are something.....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
So, has anyone come up with a
So, has anyone come up with a sound game plan regarding the current predicament?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Blue Rose Task Force
This thread sucks....
This thread sucks....
Now Blow.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
good stuff, guys.
good stuff, guys.
remember, bernie is the only candidate not accused of rape.
let that sink in.
ned can't accept it, and gravy thinks it was already "debunked", and they're standing strong w/ their guy. who else here is willing to push biden's rape aside and blindly suppprt?
remeber when biden was telling people to go out and vote during the pandemic? well a poll worker in FL tested positive...their entire team is highly unqualified for the job.
Delegates:
2,302 - 57.85% - Allocated
1,991 - 50.19% - Needed to win
1,677 - 42.15% - Remaining
1,217 - 30.59% - Joe Biden
914 - 22.97% - Bernie Sanders
There are 27 primaries and 1,677 delegates left.
bernie isn't going anywhere, lots of race left -- more debates, i know this pains you centrists. will biden make it to the convention?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
You seem very dedicated to
You seem very dedicated to your ideals of how our system should work, which is admirable.
Just wondering if you ever thought about running for public office and / or forming an organization to help change things and move forward with your vision of how it should be?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Let's see how Trump and Biden
Let's see how Trump and Biden compare, shall we?
Forever wars - Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Large corporate federal subsides- Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Prison for profit - Biden, Yes Trump, yes
Large loans to Israel - Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Lobby for big oil, pharma, and factory farming - Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Large budget for military spending - Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Abortion - Biden, No (Of late) Trump, Yes
Grab Em' by the pussy - Biden, Yes Trump, Yes
Trying hard to see the difference between the two. Not much at all to be honest.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
https://twitter.com
https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1244971590174957568?s=12
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
>>>>This thread sucks....
>>>>This thread sucks....
Those of you who fling constant insults are slamming shut the doors to potentially open minds.
At least that's the way I see it.
How are you going to convince those who have yet to vote in the presidential primary to turn out for your candidate?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
JD - why would insults or
JD - why would insults or rhetoric coming from random supporters of a specific candidate have any sway on whether or not you would vote for somebody or not? there are very serious issues we need to tackle, both nationally and globally - which candidate has the policies that most closely match up with your political views, and how you think the world's most important issues should be addressed?
biden or sanders is not "your" candidate or "his" candidate or "my" candidate - they are both "our" candidates. which one is presenting the best path forward should be the sole metric.
there are serious life and death issues at play that could reverberate hundreds of years into the future - why would pheat being an asshole or someone being mean on twitter hold any sway in this descision???
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
It's interesting that the
It's interesting that the insults can make voters look at candidates with asshole supporters in an unfavorable light. Interesting, and true.
Sort of like I don't buy products or services I'd like from people whose politics or human rights stances I abhor, or like I don't buy from Amazon because what Jeff Bezos doesn't spend his money on offends me.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Pyramid
Pyramid
take a long nap
(Now insult me...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^nah, im good man. your
^nah, im good man. your classic pz psychobabble is entertaining, and this place wouldn't be the same w/o you -- please continue.
^^would you "buy" biden's services?
knowing he's a sexual predator, isn't in favor of banning fracking, supplying healthcare to all, paying a fair wage to service workers, letting unions bargain for better pay instead of sacrificing for healthcare that isn't that great anyway, wasn't even for gay marriage until 2010 or so, has made countless disparaging comment to and about women and their right to choose, the list goes on and on.
funny how people generally ignore the mess centrists/establishment dems have gotten us into by abandoning the working class decades ago. especially boomers.
we all know the GOP is insane, and is responsible as well, no shit -- i mean, W's cabinet was full of war criminals. modern day GOP.
but the dems are all we have -- and they say they're on our side, that they represent us -- but then they don't, and give out massive bailouts to th corporations while working america gets fucked.
so how the fuck aren't you mad? if you're content w/ corporate dem rule (republican lite) then ok.
but if me calling biden senile and highly unqualified to hold office offends you, then good.
if pointing out facts about how biden has a 40yr record on attempting to cut SS makes your upset, then fuck off. there's no
more time for that nonsense.
if believing the woman that says biden fingered her w/o consent, especially after liberals fully melted over the kavanaugh shit, fuck off.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Bernie bro's gave Bernie a
Bernie bro's gave Bernie a bad name and acted to turn many off to his revolution.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Who are you talking to,
Who are you talking to, pyramidheat? I think it may be me, since you used the ^^. I haven't said I'm voting for Biden, nor that I'm not mad, nor that I trust or want the guy to be my president. Me?
But really, telling me to fuck off for anything you think I believe?
How would that help the cause?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
i am taking to you, judit; i
i am taking to you, judit; i'm saying if biden gets the nomination, but i know you said you voted bernie or are voting bernie in the primary- but also anybody, like Johnny d and JR, who said insults sway voters decision. first off, insults have been flung by all participants in these threads. come on guys. of course i'm guilty. so are all the other regulars.
you literally have ras posting insults about me, and nothing else, when i'm not even participating in the discussion, saying "that's all" -- which is kinda funny, no? lol. but it's all there.
im saying if you're not for basic shit like m4a and saving our planet so we can exist in a healthy manner for generations to come, you're in the other side.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
I'll take that as a "no" to
I'll take that as a "no" to my question above.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
also funny how the bernie bro
also funny how the bernie bro narrative is brought up so often here (and everywhere) -- yet rarely, if ever, has the corporate media's anti semitic portrayal of bernie, or the racist treatment his african american co-chair and national press sec have received been brought up here.
strange.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^^no man -- never thought
^^no man -- never thought about running for office lol, nor starting an organization to push for progressive ideals.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
How has the MSM been anti
How has the MSM been anti-Semitic towards Bernie?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Dr. Cath defined a cult as a
Dr. Cath defined a cult as a group of people joined together by a common ideological system fostered by a charismatic leader, where, he said, ''the expectation is that they can transcend the imperfections and finitude of life.''
He said: ''Often they set up a we-they philosophy: We have the truth and you do not.''
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/15/style/the-psychology-of-the-cult-expe...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Obviously you care.So how is
Obviously you care. So how is it that you attempt to create effective change? Is it just on this board? Work with any groups?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
TY PH
TY PH
Psychobabble:
( what I imply is take a break man ... stop blowing gaskets )
fwiw I "hate" Democrats
and do believe that often compromise is required
FWIW I DESPISE TRUMP
He is a horrible human and a way worse POTUS possibly the worst president of all time - def in my lifetime
The most important thing to get that asshole out of office and hopefully into a jail cell (I also hope his immediate divorce will cost him a fortune- doubt if with the expected pre nup )
i do not like our candidates
i do not like how dirty politics are
too old
too white
too male
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Daylight, I appreciate your
Daylight, I appreciate your response.
I am just wondering what people can do to educate those who have not yet voted who consider themselves to be more risk averse ("centrists!").
Bernie is not getting enough votes to become the next Democratic nominee for POTUS.
How are Bernie and those who support him going to convince more people to vote for him? I think that it's on Bernie and others to have compelling conversations with these people and try to convince them that their lives will be better if Bernie becomes the next President.
In my experience, people who are overly emotional (angry, scared, threatened, etc) have a limited ability to open themselves to listening, learning, and potentially agreeing with the argument that Bernie will deliver policies that they will benefit from. Threats and insults generally produce negative responses from the targets, which make it very difficult for them to think rationally and make their own logical decisions. They generally shut down.
Thus my silly statement about shutting doors.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I don't think you'll find an
I don't think you'll find an example of my "flinging insults", and I know that people who feel disrespected (as Johnny said, threatened or insulted) don't hear what's being said in a positive light (or maybe any other).
I think I've asked this before, pyramidheat, what is your goal when you are posting in these threads? Is it to help people see the wisdom of recognizing Bernie as the person whose policies are going to save the planet/civilization, our health, and welfare? Or something else? It doesn't feel like you want to help people see the light; rather that you want them to feel like trash for their opinions. Please help me understand. Thanks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Blue Rose Task Force
Good Morning Johnny D.
My Comment "This Thread Sucks" was an attempt at humor.
To demonstrate, I used the actress Tara Reid portraying The character Bunny, from the popular Cult from classic The Big Lebowski as as play on the name of the said accuser Tara Reade.
Up until this time, it was the only comment I made on this....ahem..... thread.
I feel that to lump myself in with the others (who shall not be named) who do hurl constant insults toward any others stated political opinions, is quite odd.
I have watched the constant degradation from one group toward another group for months and months now, and frankly it's fucking exhausting.
"Those people:" have been ganging up and verbally beating down many here who would like to offer their political opinions.
So, please do me a big favor Brother, and wave your shamey finger elsewhere.
Right NOW, I have much more pressing issues to worry about.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Here's that rainy day.
Here's that rainy day.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Hey Rock And Roll Goddess,
Hey Rock And Roll Goddess,
I did not intend to wave a shamey finger towards you. In fact, I was sending you an "Amen Sister", as I personally felt that all the arguments and attacks were bumming me out. That's my own personal flaw, based on who I am and how I was raised (preacher's kid).
I took your statement out of context and for that, I apologize.
Threads like this are frustrating to me and that's OK.
I hope that you and yours stay healthy and safe,
John
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Johnny D and RRG, I posted
Johnny D and RRG, I posted this thread because the sources I tend towards are admittedly one-sided and I was asking for information for some balance. Denny was generous enough to offer a link. I in no way encourage or endorse any real or assumed personal attacks contained within this thread.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Blue Rose Task Force
Johnny D and Dise,
Johnny D and Dise,
It's a good in the hood, thanks for the clarification and for being amicable.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
judit what's the goal of this
judit what's the goal of this site?
phil doesn't tour, hasn't for years.
it's just a gathering, right? talk, discuss, share.
b/c it seems like you have a tendency to prevent people from posting on viva; many zoners who have once tried viva, only to never return b/c of the way you handle yourself here and push your ideology onto others.
why are you confused about that?
please help me understand. thanks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Ogkb
Ogkb
really?
As an aside: John D I do respect you and your approach
civil and classy
judit as well. I for one appreciate your role here, and how you handle it
>community<
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Was the son of a preacher man
Was the son of a preacher man just jumped into my head
always liked that song
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
p-heater...Junior Admin spent
p-heater...Judit and the Junior Admin team spent a week in the Seychelles developing Viva'a Mission Statement. It's available on a need-to-know basis.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
yeah that's what i thought.
yeah that's what i thought.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
A. some People leave viva
A. some People leave viva because of the posts, because of the posters and their attitudes and I suspect even their language ( many are very repetitive also AND YES some seem to really like insulting others and calling them names) --many of the participants seem to have trouble listening or having an open mind >>~~ If I am right (which of course I am >>> then you must be wrong ~~<< a coin only has one side....
B. Phil plays a hell of a lot (as do many many other bands)
C. Folks evolve or move on to other interests or activities
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Are you speaking English, ned
Are you speaking English, ned
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
From Heat to Judit above.
From Heat to Judit above.
>>>b/c it seems like you have a tendency to prevent people from posting on viva; many zoners who have once tried viva, only to never return b/c of the way you handle yourself here and push your ideology onto others.
Ain't that kinda rich ? Where does respect enter into the discussion ? As an old friend used to tell his cat, "You know the rules".
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
A decision has been made
A decision has been made
Timpane and P Heat will both be spanked in front of the group for disrespecting admin, antagonizing the group, and in general, just being very naughty boys. Will give a heads up in the next couple days with an ID for a Zoom Meeting link. As an aside, TOD got very excited, mentioned nipples, and then asked if he could remove their pants and underwear first. I felt like he was taking it too far so I said no.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
^What?
^What?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
I think Judit's "ideology" is
"ideology" ==> "don't be an asshole".
e.g.: https://vivalazone.org/other-stuff/welcome-viva-la-zone-read
"The basic construct here is respect, civility and keeping it kind."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
((( TrashWhore )))
((( TrashWhore )))
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Are Ned and JR drinking
Are Ned and JR drinking together? Supposed to be social distancing, guys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
pyramidheat, I was asking
pyramidheat, I was asking respectful and sincere questions, hoping to understand your thoughts about what you post - I don’t get what you’re trying to achieve in your posts about politics, and hoped we would meet in discussion. Rather, it became an instance of your reacting, making me the Zone punching bag. It seems that you want to hold me responsible for the state of Viva; I believe you are smart enough to know how untrue that is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Don't fret, Judit. A couple
Don't fret, Judit. A couple of weeks ago it was all my fault. You're in good company.
Sometimes you can only shake your head and walk away.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Acceptance, especially after
Acceptance, especially after such an unexpected and complete unequivocal loss is tough for most people; especially when a person looks inside and is self aware enough to see that they might have contributed to it. Take your time heater. You are loved.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
i answered, judit. and i don
i answered, judit. and i don't understand why you post here at all or what you're trying to achieve by running the site into the ground?
you asking me what my goal in posting on viva is? to kill time like everybody else. do you understand now?
ned -- do you still think insurance should be tied to employment? lol. almost 10 mil applied for unemployment.
bk -- grow up man. you must be bored. here you are throwing yourself into the mix again -- classic BK behavior. did your former employer "shake their head and walk away"?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
<<<>>>A. some People leave
<<<>>>A. some People leave viva because of the posts, because of the posters and their attitudes and I suspect even their language ( many are very repetitive also AND YES some seem to really like insulting others and calling them names) --many of the participants seem to have trouble listening or having an open mind >>~~ If I am right (which of course I am >>> then you must be wrong ~~<< a coin only has one side...
for somebody who throws insults around frequently, you certainly wag your shamey finger a lot.
you can't do both old man.
or it plays into your pyschobabble.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Is forgiveness possible?
>>AND YES some seem to
>>AND YES some seem to really like insulting others and calling them names
I know this one guy on Viva who...lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You have zero self awareness.
You have zero self awareness. Thousands of posts berating people and calling names, day after day. It's all you do. And I'm bored?
As you know, I told a dirty joke to someone I thought was a friend (which I never denied), and got slapped on the wrist for it. You and your pals, for the last 5 years, have created your own story and used it against me. You're still doing it. As a mater of fact, it's all of your go-to. It's fucking stupid, and it's a made up story.
Maybe, dipshit, it's time for you to get a life and grow the fuck up.
And don't Jersey Vermont.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
dude i jersey'd the fuck
dude i jersey'd the fuck outta your tiny little libertarian state.
you're welcome.
hey man, it's not my fault your former employer shook their head and walked the fuck away! hahahahaha.
fucking tool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Oh no, a 30 year old,
Oh no, a 30 year old, entitled, spoiled brat with limited intelligence and absolutely no self awareness or knowledge of the world around him thinks I'm a tool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
look at briank
look at briank
all the drama he loves to avoid
just another day in trollkland lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
It's amazing how much I get
It's amazing how much I get under the skin of your combined cabal of angry millennials. Do you need trigger warnings for every time I post?
A couple of you will still be posting to me and calling me names in 12 hours, because I live in your empty domes.
Carry on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Is forgiveness possible?
Say, it looks like rain again
Say, folks, it sure looks like rain again.
Angry, angry rain.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
You guys think I'm going to
You guys think I'm going to be thinking about this site over the next twelve hours?
Or you? At all??
That's fucking hilarious. I'm already late. Funny how little this whole pandemic thing has changed life for some of us eh? Some of us still gotta go to work, still got bills to pay; others gonna lay around the house and be angry old men all day. How cute, it even rhymes.
Snooze yas later, old guys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Is forgiveness possible?
Seriously, I don;t have to
Seriously, I don't have to spend a moment on whether you'll be thinking about this site while you're away. You'll be back to prove you were soon enough.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Right, Ateix? Your pal ogkb
Right, Ateix? Your pal ogkb has been angering up this joint 24/7. I've been busy as shit and rarely posting. Libertarian Vermont is hooking him up with mad unemployment benefits and tier 1 free medical, so he has time for it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Is forgiveness possible?
The funny thing is that I
The funny thing is that I have a son who is the same age as ateix. Like ateix, my son is still working too and has bills to pay - so I am directly aware of how different people are dealing with life in this unprecedented time.
One difference is that my son does not spend any time posting back and forth with old people on a message board.
Instead he's out helping older people in his free time.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
https://wiposbottomwipers.com
https://wiposbottomwipers.com/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Is forgiveness possible?
https://www.amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Toilet-Tissue-Paper-Assholes/dp/B005XG9ABQ
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> ned -- do you still think
>> ned -- do you still think insurance should be tied to employment? lol. almost 10 mil applied for unemployment. <<
When did I ever say, think or post that?
I have always thought that employers have unfair leverage on employees due to this "benefit". Just because I don't think Bernie is the best candidate doesn't mean I disagree with all of his platform.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
good stuff, bk. so angry.
good stuff, bk. so angry. just talking and talking.
hey man, you're that guy, you admitted it. gross.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Sooooo, let me see if I'm
Sooooo, let me see if I'm understanding this thread correctly:
Centrist dems don't actually care about women's rights or about sexual assault accusations, and it's ok to question a woman's credibility when it comes to accusations of sexual assault, so long as the accusation is levelled against one of their candidates? Does that about sum it about?
I believe her!...unless she's accusing my candidate!
Did I miss something?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^this is correct.
^this is correct.
liberals in 2020.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I got laid off and still have
I got laid off from a great job and still have bills to pay. I'm not old yet though. Unfortunately some of us can't work but want to.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Unrelated to the thread topic
Unrelated to the thread topic, but Timpane, I'm sorry to hear that.
I'm a teacher so staying at home has actually meant a great deal more work for me. I'm working from 7 to 6 or 7 everyday. Creating online materials, responding emails, video conferences, checking work AND supervising my two kids as they do their schoolwork....
And I'm my department's coordinator so I have to manage my teachers and their materials. Fuck, man...is it 4:20 yet?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
haha bk. i missed
haha bk. i missed unemployment insult. nice.
what's wrong w/ being on unemployment?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
ned has also stated m4a isn't
ned has also stated m4a isn't popular.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Pyramid, you should know that
Pyramid, you should know that though you and I may be in the same corner politically 1) I think it's insane how often you (and a whole crew of others) just feel it's so easy and are ok with tossing insults around all the time. I can't imagine you do that in real life, so I'm not sure why you would do it online. And 2) anyone who goes against Judit is a dick in my book. She's done nothing but provide a playground for us all to talk shit on for the last few years out of the kindness of her heart. I've never once seen her insult anyone. I've never seen her go against anyone in a mean way. I have seen her over and over going out of her way to try to keep this place afloat and keep a kind spirit alive. If you can't see that, you should clean your lens, maaaaaaan....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
My wife is also a teacher and
My wife is also a teacher and is saying the same thing. She has to do so much more work and is sometimes up until midnight grading papers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I'm crazy behind on grading
I'm crazy behind on grading work. I've corrected about 20% of my workload. I should probably get back to that now but I'm kind of burned out today. And I ran out of herb like a week ago and am struggling...I just managed to finagle my way onto a medicinal script and have an interview with a dispensary today, so Jah Bless....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
javs, that's fine man. i don
javs, that's fine man. i don't view you as some online buddy.
but i appreciate you recognizing that i'm not the only one, and that bk, ned, thod, ras, lltd, racket and others do the same shit.
thing is, i don't wag the shamey finger like those fellas, while continuing to insult.
strange.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
lol at bk's gross
lol at bk's gross exaggeration again. 24/7 posting.
ive been doing 16 hour days during this bs. posting early morning or evening.
try again, fool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
March was my busiest month in
March was my busiest month in over a year...April looking even bigger. Hopefully, we can get back to 'normal' by June so the economy doesn't go down the tubes completely.
pheater maybe if everyone here, including Javs and Judit, are telling you you're acting like a dick, you should listen. Quack quack....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Four posts in response to me.
Four posts in response to me. Keep up the good work, ogkb! I'm sure you've got more in the works.
To you, anyone who tells you to chill out is wagging the shamey finger. Nobody is as aggressive and rude as you, though, nor are they as constant. You've called me more names today (plus your other lies) than I've ever called you.
Now, can we please get back to the MSM being anti Semitic to Bernie? Other than one dude calling some of his supporters "Brownshirts," I can't find any other references to it. Based on that, what you're doing is making up shit to make a point. There is no mass anti Semitic conspiracy in the MSM against Bernie.
Honestly, what's your dysfunction?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
He's told two flat-out lies
He's told two flat-out lies about me already today. But, Bernie is the only honest candidate, right? LOL
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"Now, can we please get back
"Now, can we please get back to the MSM being anti Semitic to Bernie? "
Wasn't this thread about dems flat out ignoring the accusation of sexual assault against their candidate? Or are just continuing to ignore it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I don't know who is ignoring
I don't know who is ignoring what. It seems like COVID is taking up 99.9% of the news cycle. Everything else is being ignored.
That said, how do we balance believing women with "innocent until proven guilty?" Should anyone's career, in any field, be ended because of accusations? Are believing women and due process mutually exclusive?
I don't know how it is in Chile, but there's a certain level of fear amongst male middle and high school teachers here. Even the slightest accusation can put someone through hell. I've heard female students "joking" about how much power they have. The administration tells teachers they have to enforce dress codes, and make teachers say, "fuck that, if I send them to the office for their low cut shirt, they'll say I was looking at them funny."
Should Biden have to drop out over an accusation?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I don't know who is ignoring
...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Did I say Biden should drop
Did I say Biden should drop out? But just acting like it never happened, of flat out denying it and basically playing the same old patriarchal card of "That never happened ergo she's a liar" seems kind of weak and inappropriate these days.
As for teachers in Chile, well, here students wear a uniform at almost all schools. There's not a lot of room for turning a uniform into something scandalous, but the older or faster-maturing girls do often like to cut the skirt till it doesn't cover much. That said, they all wear like gym tights under them, so it's not really a problem anyways. Chile, like Latin America, is a pretty touchy-feely culture still. I get attacked by female students (remember I teach 5th to 8th grade) fairly frequently and just kinda make sure my hands are in the air or patting them on the head so there's no confusion. But as the years go by it has (with good reason) become a more prominent issue.
As for Biden, his response to this situation seems like your pretty standard chicken shit response which takes advantage of the male power differential to discredit the woman. To my liking, the only powerful male that I know of who has responded properly to these types of situations was Al Franken. He acknowledge, apologized and sacrificed his career. He may have fucked up but he owned up with courage and integrity.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
^ Let's just give it some
^ Let's just give it some time, Javs. The truth will reveal itself.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Tbe question remains, Javs,
Tbe question remains, Javs, how do we balance giving both sides due process? You're not answering that.
You're right that Franken did sacrifice himself, but it's a bit different. There were pics of him grabbing her while she was asleep. Denial wasn't really an option.
What wouldn't be a chickenshit response? It seems like yku're put him in a Catch-22.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
"Mock" grabbing her would be
"Mock" grabbing her would be more accurate.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Is calling someone old man an
Is calling someone old man an insult ?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
Context matters
Context matters
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
"" I don't wave shamey
"" I don't wave shamey fingers ""
hmmm ..interesting that your perception of yourself is that you don't wave shamey fingers
i hope I do have a modicum of self awareness
and I intend to do less " name calling "
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
haven't read everything --
haven't read everything -- ned you're lying, it's ok.
bk -- you have issues man -- you call me names but only say anything when i respond? hahaha you've been doing that for years on this site; you're insufferable man. jesus christ.
centrists asking for time but melting over kavanaugh immediately is pure gold.
i would never shame you for calling me any name. lol.
i will shame you for saying americans don't prefer m4a (lie, right ned) and that unions want to keep their healthcare instead of receiving m4a (lie).
bk if you can't find the countless anti semitic examples out there from this run, well.....fuck it, it makes sense you can't.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
4.8
4.8
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I like how he started with me
I like how he started with me, moved on, and then came back to me. You know, because I have issues...
Thank you for looking out for the Jewish people. May you be immortalized in the Righteous Amongst the Nations, alongside Oskar Schindler.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
BK, I understand what you're
BK, I understand what you're saying about due process, but there's two holes in your line of thinking.
1) I'm not saying this is true for you specifically (I have no idea what you have said case by case) but the fact remains that when someone who is of the 'other' band (whichever that may be) is accused of sexual assault, people will rush to judgement and yet when someone of 'their' band is accused, there is an overwhelming discourse about civility, due process, waiting till the facts play out, etc. This is mostly due (IMO) to our primate nature and our desire to constantly defend 'our' territory. Like I've argued over and over, people are inconsistent, emotional, impulsive beings who play the game of politics much like they would a football match. If it's my team, I'm for 'em. If it's the other team, fuck those lying bastards. This is true here, there and everywhere. Truth is, there's a lot of overlap in what a centrist dem like Biden strives to achieve and what a republican like Trump strives to achieve, but dems won't admit that because it would involve admitting they've been supporting war and corporate control of politics all along.
2) Statistics show that only a very small percent of rape, sexual assault and sexual abuse allegations are false. Small enough that we really should consider all allegations as true to begin with. Why? Because we live in a culture that has inherited a patriarchal legacy where it is very easy for a man to discredit a woman's allegations and EXTREMELY difficult for a woman to even get people to listen to her accusations. Someone who is genuinely interested in representing women's rights has the ethical obligation (IMO) to do everything in their power to validate the woman's claims, support them, listen to them, give them a space for expression and do everything in their power to help them achieve a sense of justice. And again, the percentage of false accusations is so tiny that (IMO) it is better to err on the side of the 90% or so of true accusations, rather than just look like another powerful old white guy who takes advantage of women who are in a position of less power (physically, politically, societally, etc). And come on - is it really that hard to believe that a powerful old white man would do this kind of thing? Someone in this thread even said something like 'I find it odd that he would just go straight for fingering her'. I don't find it odd. A woman's genitals are by nature vulnerable, penetrable. A quick slip of the underwear and there you are. A horny many full of testoterone and the belief that he is being seduced is a dangerous thing. I know because I am that man, I have been that man, and all men have been that man. It's the nature of testosterone. It clouds the brain and makes you see things that perhaps aren't happening. Especially in the younger years and decreasing as time goes by. And power is a strong intoxicant, to boot.
So yeah, for Joe to just come out with your standard 'I have no idea what that crazy woman is talking about' trope is weak. It's pathetic. It's patriarchal. It's an abuse of power. It's a clear display that you're respect for women's rights is lip service. I would say this about any man, but I find it highly inexcusable in a man who is in a position to control the narrative of the most powerful nation in the world and by default influence the entire world.
But hey, Joe probably can't even remember what he had for breakfast, so maybe he genuinely just has no clue who this woman is. Which is also worrisome....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
And the 'Biden is the lesser
And the 'Biden is the lesser of two evils' argument is the same rhetorical bullshit that has pushed the US and the world into the baloney polarized black and white mentality that puts people like Trump into power. It's time to start walking the walk when it comes to politics, not just talking the talk.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Thanks for explaining what
Thanks for explaining what political bias is, Javs.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I didn't have an argument,
I didn't have an argument, Javs. I asked how we believe women and also have due process?
I also asked you what he could have said that wasn't a Catch-22 for him. If he denies it he's wrong. If he says that he believes that she believes it, he's wrong. Other than admitting to it, how could you ever be satisfied with his response.
It begs the question, how do we move forward with it? Should there be a special hearing, or a court case? I don't know what happened and would like to.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
BK, I think that the Catch-22
BK, I think that the Catch-22 is his fault, since he's built up a reputation as a pretty creepy guy. That said, poking around the internet all I could find out of the Biden camp on this was a statement by some staffer saying "the accusations are totally false". It would have been much more interesting and relevant to hear something coming from Biden himself, first off (it may have happened, but I couldn't find it). Second, anything with even a remote touch of empathy would be a welcome change in the usual rhetoric. Say, for example, "although I do not remember the events in the same way that Ms. Reade remembers them, I understand her frustration and sadness over the situation and have an extended an invitation to her to discuss the matter with me in greater depth so that I may review my acting and apologize for any wrongdoing I may have incurred. I certainly empathize with women in situations of sexual assault and it is important to me to hear her version of the events and find a resolution that will help bring closure to her life".
But that would require intelligence (Biden has none), empathy (even less) and a genuine feeling of giving a shit about women's right (clearly, he doesn't feel that way).
But like I said already, I'm guessing Old Joe can't even remember her and probably wears a bib while he eats so he doesn't drool on his cheerios. His total and complete absence during the last weeks is telling in the sense that he's pretty clearly not a leader of any kind. Not in terms of helping a country deal with a massive crisis, and certainly not in setting a tone or mood that shows a desire to further the dialogue on helping women and sexual assault victims in general be able to express themselves and find justice.
I wish it weren't true but you know it and I know - Joe is gonna get steamrolled by the Don in November...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Had he given the response
Had he given the response that you suggested, he would have been called an even bigger scumbag. There's no way to say that without coming off as condescending and misogynistic. Think about it. She accused him of penetrating her body without consent. "I do t remember it that way, I'm sorry for your pain." He would be painted as an even bigger douchebag, especially by his haters. It's a 20+ year old he said \ she said. Deny and move on, and the haters are going to hate.
A lot can happen between now and November. Trump is surging because of this "rally around the flag" thing. Biden's momentum hit a brick wall, and most of the population doesn't give a shit about anything right now, other than COVID. That will change in a few months. Bernie has way more of a chance to step in and grab the delegates than he did a month ago. It's up to him to capitalize on the opportunity. To do so, though, he's going to have to become much more "presidential." That last debate was a disaster on that front. He was the Bernie that we know, love and expect, but not the leader of the free world.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
200
200
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Weird that people put value
Weird that people put value into "looking presidential". I actually like the fact that Bernie is simply trying to adress issue instead of trying to make himself look good. That's the sign of a liar and a bullshitter. Like every single president in history. We no longer need these people to get up there and try and dazzle us. This is why many people like Coumo right now while behind closed doors he is lobby to cut Medicaid. People want to be dazzled. We need to change that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I agree with you, Timpane.
I agree with you, Timpane. People want their President to display certain leadership qualities. Although it's very rare for someone to have those qualities and to be on the up-and-up, they aren't mutually exclusive. FDR had it all. You could maybe make a case that JFK also did (within the context of his era).
In my opinion, Bernie dropped the ball at the debate. He kept going back to M4A, and it wasn't the time to hammer that home. He could have hit a homer by laying out what he was going to do, in the Senate, to ensure that people weren't fucked by COVID. In times of crisis people want to know how their leaders will help in the here and now. Focusing on that would have been "presidential."
Ultimately, he did the good shit in the Senate. As I said a few posts ago, with Biden's momentum at zero, he has the opportunity to use that to his advantage. "Look what I did for you during this crisis. You can be assured that I'll fight for you moving forward."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Bernie did horrible in that debate. He was trying to set Biden up for failure by asking him questions when he should have just laid down facts and been the aggressor. I didn't think Biden Di well either because he told countless lies and people now have the more means than ever to fact check him after the debate. People don't want to be lied to anymore and it will gain him distrust in his own party. The dazzlement is a republican tactic. It's how Trump has won over people in the Midwest. He's a TV personality. Biden is not that and if he tries playing that game then the general election is really gonna be a disaster for him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'm always weary of making
I'm always weary of making blanket statements about what "the people" want. Remember, a majority of this country couldn't point to within 200 miles of DC on a map, nor can they tell you the 3 branches of the government, let alone what their roles are. Perhaps a percentage of educated people are sick of it, but that's a small minority.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
what did Biden lie about in
what did Biden lie about in the debate?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Cutting Social Security.
Cutting Social Security.
I guess it's semantics. He was voting for a temporary cut on all gov't spending, which did include Social Security, as a means of balancing the budget. He wasn't voting to cut SS for the long haul.
It's subjective if he was lying. Yeah, he was voting to cut SS, but no, it wasn't like he as gutting it, and only that program, nor was it for more than a short period.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Biden did not say he wasn't a
Biden did not say he wasn't a rapist. Hence, he's a raping liar.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Biden also did not say he
Biden also did not say he wasn't a deadhead. Hence, he's a deadhead.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Pretty strange joke there Ned
Pretty strange joke there Ned. I look at it this way Brian K, do you know anyone who likes being lied too? I don't, personally. Usually when I find out I've been lied to it makes it difficult to trust that person.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
so what did Biden lie about
so what did Biden lie about in the debate?
I am unaware that Biden ever voted to cut SS.
P.s.: freeze does not mean cut.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Interesting question, Timpane
Interesting question, Timpane. In essence, Bernie lied to everyone in 2016 by making them believe that he had a chance. He knew that, because of the superdelegate system, he never had a snowball's chance in hell. He took hard-earned cash, from people who trusted him, knowing that he couldn't win. In some ways he went a step farther than lying. You still trust him.
I know that you're going to disagree with my statement that he could never win, but it's true. I learned it from my local, Progressive representative the day he announced. "Brian, there's no way he can win. The superdelegates will never vote for him, and they have the power. They are the Party loyalists and bigwigs, like Bill Clinton, Obama. Bernie isn't a Democrat." If my local Progressive representative knew it, Bernie sure as hell did too.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
biden has a 40yr record of
biden has a 40yr record of trying to adjust/cut SS. bernie has only tried to expand.
these are facts.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Here's a link to factcheck
Here's a link to factcheck.org's report on "Biden vs. Sanders on Social Security and Medicare"
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/biden-vs-sanders-on-social-security-an...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
40 years. wow.
40 years. wow.
biden = republican lite. status quo.
he will work for his corporate buddies and nobody else. just like trump. what's that other thing he has in common w/ trump..........
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Mannfred, you insist on
Mannfred, you insist on covering for your candidate, but the fact is that during the debate he repeatedly denied ever having promoted any kind of cut or freeze to social security. The evidence shows that he clearly has, repeatedly. The fact that he has repeatedly been willing to cut or freeze SS is kind of weird in and of itself. It seems like it's very easy for him to turn to that as an option, which should be alarming to everyone. Compounded with the fact that he explicitly lied about it just shows that he a) easily turns to cutting SS an option and b) is willing to explicitly lie about it.
BK, sorry, but your argument that Bernie 'in essence lied' is ridiculous. You either lie or you don't. There is no 'in essence' here. You have no idea whether Bernie thought he could win or not and for all we know your progressive local candidate doesn't know what he's talking about. Or maybe he does. But one example of a person saying Bernie can't win does not equal Bernie knowing he couldn't win and it certainly doesn't equal an 'in essence' lie. It seems like you're trying to equate two very different things. Let's set the record straight. Biden flat out lied to the American public on national TV. Bernie did not.
As for the Tara Reade topic, which pretty much everyone on this thread wants to ignore (a telling sign of its own and very representative of how men in general view women's accusations of sexual assault) I disagree completely that Biden opening up a dialogue with her would have made him look like a bigger scumbag. It's impossible to look like a bigger scumbag then sending one of your minions to say the other person is lying. There is nothing lower than that.
Face it centrists: Biden is a terrible candidate and is going to get his ass handed to him by Trump. And yeah, unfortunately, it's pretty much a fact that he will get the nomination regardless of what Bernie is doing right now. Open up any major news source and you'll be hard-pressed to find a Bernie headline, despite what he's doing.
And yeah, despite what some local progressive politician may or may not have said I continue to think that Bernie would have a real shot at winning the presidential election, just like I think he could have won it in 2016 if the DNC hadn't pulled all the stops to make sure their corporate puppet got put in front of the camera instead. Am I in essence lying?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You didn't read a word of
You didn't read a word of that Fact-check article.
On another note, last night I watched a rerun of Friday's Real Time, with Mahar interviewing Sanders. Bernie was cleaned and polished, wearing a fancier and more tailored suit, and he was on point about dealing with COVID. He didn't use his time as a platform to push his agenda. He looked and sounded like a leader. His whole persona was noticeably different. If he keeps it up, he'll have a chance of picking up the nomination.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Okay Javs, I'll say it flat
Okay Javs, I'll say it flat out again (as I did 4 years ago). He duped the American public. You can't have it both ways. Bernie supporters have been crying foul for 4 years that the superdelegate system was rigged against anyone like Bernie, a Party outsider, and he couldn't win. Yet, now you're telling me that he had a chance. Make up your mind. You're picking the argument that backs your narrative at a specific time.
And honestly, you're quite off base in saying that a Vermont Progressive, who knows Bernie very well and also understands our system, didn't know what he was talking about. He was being objective. I'll venture to say that he's infinitely more knowledgeable than some dude who lives in Chile. Due to the superdelegate system, Bernie had no chance in 2016, and anyone with a working knowledge of the system was aware of that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Okay Javs, I'll say it flat
...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Bernie had favorable numbers
Bernie had favorable numbers in polls against Trump in the general in 2016
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
so what did Biden lie about
so what did Biden lie about in the debate?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I'll be honest, I have no
I'll be honest, I have no idea what fact-check article you're talking about. I respond to what people say or quote on here, I don't have a lot of time in general to read every article. If you link it again I'll give a go, though, so we're on the same page.
I'm glad to hear Bernie was looking clean and polished on Maher. I still don't think he has a chance of getting the nomination, though, unfortunately.
Again, I disagree that he duped the American public. He had a vision, has it, and is true to it...or that's how I perceive it, anyways. You can't get inside his mind to say decisively that he was tricking the American public. Just like I can't decisively get in there and say he wasn't. So you're trying to equate what you believe to be a 'lie in essence' vs Biden's flat out demonstrable lie. And frankly, they're not even close.
And if you read my post you'll see that I didn't say that your friend/acquaintance was right or wrong. I said he could be either but that it doesn't matter. There's even a name for that type of fallcy; it's called a hasty generalization. Just because that's what the one dude believes, doesn't make it a fact in reality or a fact that Bernie felt that way. It's just one person's opinion.
Let me be clear as to how I felt about the 2016 election - I don't believe we've discussed that specifically. I feel that the DNC shit show was rigged against Bernie. However, had that not been the case, I believe Bernie could have won the general. They're two different things.
And lastly, I'm not just some dude from Chile - I'm Jav, motherfucker. Show some respect.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"so what did Biden lie about
"so what did Biden lie about in the debate?"
Mannfred, I'm guessing reading comprehension wasn't your strong point in school, huh?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Here's an article about it
Here's an article about it for you. I'm tired of explaining it:
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/17/biden-fact-check-social-security-ban...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
p.s.: https://www.politico
p.s.: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/poll-biden-leads-sanders-in-wisconsin-159465
new poll in Wisconsin shows Joe Biden with a big lead over Bernie Sanders in next week’s Democratic presidential primary, which is moving ahead even though a majority of voters want the state to postpone amid the coronavirus pandemic.
The primary is happening as the state's governor is ordering residents to stay home to slow the spread of the virus. But among those who said they were likely to vote in the primary, the poll, from Marquette Law School, shows Biden leading Sanders 62 percent to 34 percent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
So, Tara Reade? No? No one?
So, Tara Reade? No? No one? Just ignore it and it goes away? Same as powerful men have been doing forever against women in positions of less power?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
It's ok, Mannfred, that echos
It's ok, Mannfred, that echos what I said above. But like I said in another thread at some point:
Someone asked if I would be willing to come on here and say I was wrong if Bernie gets the nomination and then loses to Trump.
So question for you - don't dodge it, don't skirt the topic (Tara Reade).
If (when) Biden loses to Trump, will you and the other centrists on here be willing to come on here and admit that you were wrong?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
"so what did Biden lie about
"so what did Biden lie about in the debate?"
Here's a transcript, maybe you can find a lie: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2003/15/se.03.html
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Just ignore it and it goes
Just ignore it and it goes away?
yes. this nonsense will all be forgotten by the end of the week.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
If Bidden loses to Trump it
If Bidden loses to Trump it will say nothing about how Bernie would have fared - he could have come out even worse.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
The 2016 Democratic primary
The 2016 Democratic primary wasn't rigged against Bernie. The system was set up to ensure that a true-blood Democrat gets the nomination. Argue it any way you want: Bernie, a lifelong Independent, could have never got that nomination.
I don't know what was in his mind, but if he didn't know that, he's more daft than Biden. Lord knows, tons of Bernie supporters knew it early on when they said it was "rigged." Even you're saying it was rigged. Sorry, Jav motherfucker (said with due respect), you're twisting the argument to suit your narrative at any given time. If the system was rigged so that he could never win, and propel were bitching about it from day one, then Bernie was taking money to run a race that he had no chance in.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
By the way, if and when Biden
By the way, if and when Biden loses to Trump, it will be for a plethora of reasons. Him being a centrist is probably the least of them (other than the far Left not voting at all).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Mannfred, I already posted
Mannfred, I already posted one article for you. There are many more out there. Do your research. I'm not here to google for you.
Any thoughts on Tara Reade? Will you admit after Biden loses that you were wrong about Biden being able to beat Trump?
BK, you say the system was set-up to ensure that....How is that different from rigged? Now you're just playing semantics.
And by your logic, Rosa Parks should have never sat at the front of the bus - she knew that she would get arrested, so why bother?
I'm not sure how I'm twisting anything. I feel like I've said the same thing over and over, I just look for different examples and ways to explain it to people who clearly don't want to understand.
So, BK, when Biden loses, will you come on here and admit that you were wrong for believing he could beat Trump?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"(other than the far Left not
"(other than the far Left not voting at all)"
This one is funny. I love it when people say "it's the voters fault the candidate lost because they didn't vote for the candidate".
Well, duh. That's how democracy works. You're not actually forced to vote for someone unless you feel they would be a good representative of your ideas. If the candidate does not represent your ideas, you shouldn't vote for them.
If you set up a system where you consistently put up candidates who don't represent the voting block, you can't then whine when the other party puts up a candidate that does represent their voting block and wins. Dems have been playing this half-witted game for so long it kinda seems intentional...Almost as if they have a financial interest in making sure the system continues as is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
If Rosa Parks went on a crowd
If Rosa Parks went on a crowd-funding campaign, saying that she was going to single-handedly end Jim Crowe laws and grant civil rights to blacks in the South, I'd say she was being duplicitous. Comparing Bernie's 2016 run to Rosa Parks is kind of icky.
If and when Biden loses to Trump (and I've been saying since January 2017 that Trump will win again), it will be for a ton of factors. Some will have to do with the candidate, some with the incumbent, and many to do with the electorate. You'll chalk it up to one factor: he's a centrist, and Bernie would have won. We both know that there's no way to prove that, and it's just a falsehood.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
By the way, Javs, I didn't
By the way, Javs, I didn't set up the system. It's not my fault. It really isn't.
I've said over and over that the system is fucked. I don't think that the DNC should have let Bernie run as a Dem. He's an independent, and should have been a third party. Now, when only three people are running, that whole "a vote for A is really a vote for B" thing may hold true. Three's a crowd. However, if the GOP had said fuck you to Trump, and he also ran as an I, that would have changed things.
Imagine if it was Hillary vs Bernie vs Trump vs Rubio. That would have changed the system forever.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
What's up with this "will you
What's up with this "will you admit" crap? It's laughable. If someone is humping Biden, and he loses, what's there to admit? It's pretty clear that they were wrong. When Chile plays Argentina in soccer, your whole country is screaming "we're the best," and they lose, do they have to publicly admit they were wrong?
I'll challenge you to find one example of me saying that Biden will win. I have said that I believe he's a better candidate than Bernie (I haven't said I agree with him). I don't think either has a chance against Trump. They're both shitty candidates.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://www.washingtonpost
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-top-sanders-advisers-urge-him-to-consider-withdrawing/2020/04/04/224d8164-767f-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
sheeple like $1200...
sheeple like $1200...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I guess Manfreed believed
I guess Manfreed believed Biden has never tried to alter or cut social security? Even through he spent most of his career doing that. Then he said he didn't when Sanders called him on it. I mean you can look through that transcript and see that it's littered with lies from Biden. Is what it is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Can November 4th come soon
Can November 4th come soon enough?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
wow. impressive, bk.
wow. impressive, bk.
you do know bernie is going up against the entire establishment, correct?
the corporate media hates him. you know this, right? i mean, as the most progressive person on this site, you should.
so put all the other shit aside, the media trashing bernie 24/7 has a massive impact on the electorate -- see the weirdsteves/ ras/thod/neds of the country.
your he isn't a dem bs is lazy thinking, and shows that you're ignoring the history of the dem party, and what they once stood for and who they represented.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://www.politifact.com
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/mar/16/fact-checking-sanders-biden-primary-debate/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Ogkb, I think we're moving on
Ogkb, I think we're moving on from personal attacks and condescension to real discussion. Please join us. If you disagree with my points, address them with counterpoints, not hyperbole about media bias, history, etc.
I'm trying to be objective. I've said that Bernie has a chance again, and that he clearly has done some image work in the last month. I'm very liberal on the local and state level, but age has also made me a realist, especially about the presidency.
I understand that you don't "get it," and that's fine. I look at it this way: the stability of our presidency is that it occupies the center, at least historically. It's why we have peaceful transfer of power, and that's a good thing. What sucks is that the center has moved to the right, like Obama. And, we currently have a far right POTUS with followers that are already calling for civil unrest if he loses. I don't like that. I have no problem with a more center president. It's would really like to see the center move to the left a bit, but though. I don't particularly like Biden as president, nor do I like Bernie. He's too polarizing.
Berate and lambast me for my opinion. Call me names. I don't care. It's old and tired.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I don't have time or energy
I don't have time or energy to go point by point through this, but I just want to ask if anybody else has notices that Mannfred is basically a centrist Thom? Never an argument, never an opinion, just copy/paste after copy/paste. We all call out Thom on it all the time. Why not Mannfred?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Lol, Manfred. You have proved
Lol, Manfred. You have proved our points. Biden lobbied for those programs to be frozen when we spend billions on military aid, and federal subsidies. But he tries to make a point that stalling a benefits program is a viable option. You really don't get it obviously. He is bought and working for large companies as a contractor. Sorry you can't see that. The fact that he tries to make that argument is proof that he is what we all know he is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Medicaid and Social Securtiy
Medicaid and Social Securtiy are benefits programs paid into every minute that somebody is working for a living. Don't let people fool you that for some reason it must be cut or stalled or anything of the such. It is 100% paid for by the American citizens who actually have to work everyday for a living. For it to be cut or stalled to help big business and military get more money is an absolute disgrace and a shameful part of our political system.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
You Bernie people are dumber
The centrist Thom?
You mean, I post facts that are lacking bias to the left or bias to the right?
Hmmmm....OK..
As for opinions?
Yah, I've never expressed an opinion in my 18 years of zoning.
And y'all are trhe people throwing around insults about reading comprehension?
Here is an opinion:
Bernie bros are dumber than Blairbert.
And that is saying something.
At least Blairbert knew that calling for an across the board budget freeze is not the same thing as
"Biden lobbied for those programs to be frozen when we spend billions on military aid, and federal subsidies" (whatever that drivel means).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
How old were you little kids
How old were you little kids in 2002?
>>>> Never an argument, never an opinion
No, I never, ever, expressed an opinion on the zone or this board.
Ignorance can be cured.
But you can't fix stupid.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Oh, you do speak. Interesting
Oh, you do speak. Interesting.
Of course, you came out of copy/paste retirement to hurl insults and still not acknowledge that Biden lied. Oh well, political bias is real.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my joke about Reading Comprehension skills. Seems like it's a sensitive topic for you. As a teacher I should be more respectful of people's educational soft-spots. My bad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
So Javs, in your mind voting
So Javs, in your mind voting to temporarily freeze all government spending is the same as cutting Social Security?
Personally, I think that certainly entitlements should be held sacrosanct, and I don't think it was right to add SS to the freeze. I also recognize that it was a freeze, not a cut, and he wasn't lying.
There's a certain cult-like myopia that's impossible to interact with.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>> more respectful of
>> I'm sorry I hurt your feelings with my joke about Reading Comprehension skills. Seems like it's a sensitive topic for you. As a teacher I should be more respectful of people's educational soft-spots. My bad.
the bryen
blairis strong in that statement. Choose wisely which group of entities you choose to emulate.Back to SS,
1) has SS been cut before? Ever?
2) Did the generation collecting SS in 1985 benefit hugely from SS compared to the generations that followed?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
" Don't let people fool you
" Don't let people fool you that for some reason it must be cut or stalled or anything of the such. It is 100% paid for by the American citizens who actually have to work everyday for a living. For it to be cut or stalled to help big business and military get more money is an absolute disgrace and a shameful part of our political system."
times are crazy,
people are strange...
good point mr. timpane.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>>>> "For it to be cut or
>>>> "For it to be cut or stalled to help big business and military get more money"
"across the board freeze".....what does it mean?
hint: not that.
meanwhile,
it is 2020, and Donald J Trump is the President if the United States.
And you little kiods want to argue about what Joe Biden said
in 1985.
35 years ago.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I was just busting your balls
I was just busting your balls, Mannfred. Settle down. I'm glad to see you talking (writing) versus copy pasting.
A freeze means that money that was meant to go into a program is no longer put into that program. Money that was earmarked for it, is taken out of it. That is, to quote one article I posted above, tantamount to a cut. For Biden to flat out deny he ever supported a cut to the program, ergo, is a lie. Had it been just once, ok, maybe let it slip. The fact remains that over and over when there has been a budget issue he has had no quarrels in cutting that funding that was earmarked (or rather already a part of) the Social Security program. So yeah, not only did he lie, he lied about what has been almost a signature move of his.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Manfred turning to insults
Manfred turning to insults because he has no valid points to back up his argument. This is exactly what people don't like. Whatever guy, believe what you want. These people aren't your friends and don't hold your interests in mind u less you are a Billionaire CEO who owns assets and some kind of pull with other political figures and other rich folks. Is Bernie perfect? No. He at least wasn't trying to make things worse! Lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Manfred, please tell me the
Manfred, please tell me the argument for "freezing" Medicaid and Social Security. Because an older adult like you would know the answer right? Name one good reason.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Is increasing the retirement
Back in the old days, everybody thought we needed to not borrow money and make the grandkids pay it back.
In other words, the balanced budget was an issue, and in 1985, Reagan was increasing military spending like a drunkedn sailor.
So offering to freeze SS at that time was a trade that was totally unacceptable to republicans.
So the freeze idea was dead, he proposed it to fuck withthe GOP.
meanwhile:
Is increasing the retirement age a cut?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Why are you bouncing around
Why are you bouncing around the question? And why would increasing the age be acceptable, while you're at it? The money is already there. So because the federal government has made poor investments with that money then that means people should have to retire later?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
So you agree that increasing
So you agree that increasing the retirement age would be a cut?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
>Is increasing the retirement
>Is increasing the retirement age a cut?<
what do you think?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I think what that does it
I think what that does it hold money that people have already earned while the government collects an interest and people are still breaking their backs to earn an average 11 yrs of retired life. The money is already there. It's just been poorly invested by people running the government.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
I asked first.
I asked first.
But OK, I agree that increasing the retirement age is a cut.
Is it bad to advocate that cut in Social security?
After all, lifespans ARE increasing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
sidebar:
digression, as it is off the main point:
1) Timpane, do you know that the SS administration has NO discretion as to what they incevst the SS trustr fund in?
2) Do you know what the SS trust fund invests in?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Do you guys really, truly
Do you guys really, truly believe that Biden and Trump are interchangeable? That's kind of the crux of it. If that's what one believes, they are going to hate Biden.
I don't think that they are anywhere near to each other.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Look what I'm saying is that
Look what I'm saying is that the cuts are unacceptable. It doesn't matter the reason. What you're saying is nothing. You actually just used a republican talking point by saying "lifespans are increasing" which is just a horrible argument for SS cuts. I will admit it's aggravating talking to people who just want to argue for the sake of arguing. It's not about winning an argument. It's about changing our bullshit government. If you can't see that then I disagree with your stand point and I think you don't realize you getting played. I personally don't know what they invest the SS trust in. Just like in my trade Union, our supposed leaders make horrible decisions with the pension funds and annuity's that we go out and break our backs for. Just like SS and Medicaid. Then you get a guy like Biden standing on the floor trying to justify cutting it and there are some people who buy it and some of don't. Mostly because the sheer numbers don't add up.
Mitt Romney would be proud of that "life expectancy" argument though lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>>> Look what I'm saying is
>>> Look what I'm saying is that the cuts are unacceptable. ...
>>> You actually just used a republican talking point by saying "lifespans are increasing" which is just a horrible argument for SS cuts.
>>> Mitt Romney would be proud of that "life expectancy" argument though lol
So we agree that increasing the retirement age is a cut?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Do you think increasing the
Just to keep these together, at the risk of redundancy, would you agree that:
1) increasing the retirement age;
and
2) increasing the payroll tax (the social security tax taken out of your paycheck);
are both cuts?
If you think one is a cut and one is not, ok, but both mean people pre-retirement either pay more, get less, or both.
So I think both are cuts.
Do you agree?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>> I personally don't know
Digression colors...
>>> I personally don't know what they invest the SS trust in.
but you feel comfortable telling us that "the government" was bad:
>>> "So because the federal government has made poor investments with that money then that means people should have to retire later?
Why do you accuse "the government" of investment malpractice when you have no idea about the law that determines what they invest in?
Does the SS trust fund invest in stocks?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
I'm not aware of the payroll
I'm not aware of the payroll tax going up. And that's not what I'm talking about. Increasing the age of retirement is sleazy way of the fed keep our money for longer. When people try to "freeze" SS, that is a cut. My definition of a cut is funding being diverted or not being outlayed to the public so yes keeping the age higher would in some way reduce the federal spending which would give you a cut in SS spending.
So is the payroll tax a cut? Well let's talk about that, logically. It's money coming out of your in pocket total. And that's coming from every American who actually works for a living. So if the total which is in the SS trust is being fucked around with invested like shit then that tax increase goes to East because at the beginning of each year they will decide which federal programs to try and hold funding for which will make it look like they are saving money from the deficit but on the other hand you have ridiculous increases in military spending and federal subsidies which heavily out weigh SS spending. So Is it a cut of out your in the pocket cash? Yes, just like every tax. Now just imagine for a second though where we lived in a world where a bunch of assholes weren't lobbying for big oil and war mongers and we had a trust that we didn't have to worry about being on a bill to be cut for these assholes. Then the payroll tax would be worth what you pay into it.
Answer your question?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
cool, I think we agree that:
cool, I think we agree that:
1) increasing the retirment age is a cut;
2) increasing the payroll tax rate is a cut.
agreed?
Well, it turns out that Bernie supported both social security cuts we agreed upon above.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/08/sanders-versus-biden-social-security-guide-claims/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
The SS is our investment as
The SS is our investment as working citizens. The government pretty much has their control and say of what happens to it. I don't claim to know all the answers but why would they try to cut a program in which is already paid for and earning them money? Well, usually it's because they making poor decisions with that money. If we made good decisions with money the. We would be trillions of dollars in debt right now. You and I don't know what the SS trust gets cycled into because we are privelaged to that information in our average day media. We get fed a bunch of bullshit that isn't as important as to what these asswipes are really doing with our money.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
He wa trying to save it
He wa trying to save it because the people who were in charge of the money obviously fucked it all up! Lol. Dude you don't get it I guess. He has to make compromises just like anyone else. He's hade to vote for th e lesser of two evils many times. He just doesn't advocate and lobby for it when it's not needed
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Bernie never supported a bill
Bernie never supported a bill to cut SS spending by the federal government
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
You are arguing for the sake
You are arguing for the sake of arguing but you have no real point. You like Biden? Then vote for him. But it seems you don't really understand government spending as well as your trying to portray it. Your supposed to more than us younger guys, I thought?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Mind you, at least for me,
Mind you, at least for me, the original essence of this tangent of this thread was not about whether or not you agreed with or disagreed with certain SS cuts. It was about whether or not Old Joe lied. I'm pretty clear on the fact that he did. He did vote to cut SS not just in 85 during the Reagan era but on three or four separate occasions. And when Bernie cornered him about it, he flat out lied. So, two key points stand out from this thread and that's that the Bidenistas are willing to vote for a guy who flat out lies about his policy record and who can't even make a personal comment regarding a sexual assault accusation.
So the question is not whether one sees no difference between Trump and Biden in terms of policy per se (though arguably, the differences are minor). The main thing that binds them is a lack of integrity and that's what Bernie brings to the equation - integrity. If I knew of a centrist of right winger or whoever who displayed integrity and honesty in their political career, I would find that worthy of highlighting and praising. I don't expect everyone to agree with my political ideas. But I do expect politicians to uphold a certain standard as paid representatives of voters. And I expect voters to hold them up to those standards. If there was a candidate who was all for the things that I like but was willing to lie and weasel their way to get there, I wouldn't vote for them. I, and many others, have said enough is enough. No more fucking lying and weaseling and selling policy favors to the highest bidder. It's time voters start holding candidates to a higher standard.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
2120 is the year for change..
2120 is the year for change...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
bk i didn't attack you. you
bk i didn't attack you. you forget you're just as nasty as the rest of us. you're no different here man, you're no better, even if you convinced yourself you are. anyway....
i get it -- you don't think a progressive can or should be president. you didn't vote obama even tho we were going from W to potentially another war monger in mccain. strange imo, especially since obama is a bit more liberal than biden (who you'll be voting for in november, correct?)
bernies too polarizing and biden is accused of rape -- where's that leave you?
also you say the dnc didn't cheat in 2016, that bernie knew he couldn't win and therefore never should have run and duped millions of people into donating -- strange logic imo, but ok. if bernie didn't run in 2016, we wouldn't be talking about progressive policy on a national level -- do you understand that?
bernie's attempt to bring the dem party back to representing the working class is often mocked by centrists and fake progressives, but it's what needs to happen if the dems want the presidency ever again.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
lots of closeted republicans
lots of closeted republicans on this site.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> but it's what needs to
>> but it's what needs to happen if the dems want the presidency ever again. <<
derp
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
what's up ned -- feeling a
what's up ned -- feeling a little aggressive today?
centrists like you will be responsible for the working class continuing to get completely fucked.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I hope you have a great day,
I hope you have a great day, pheater!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
you too man.
you too man.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> the Bidenistas are willing
>> the Bidenistas are willing to vote for a guy who flat out lies about his policy record and who can't even make a personal comment regarding a sexual assault accusation. <<
I'm not going to comment on an allegation from 1993 that I have very limited information on. It would be pure speculation based on limited facts, no?
When it comes to him lying, politics is called Dirty Business for a reason. I will cautiously accept Biden's current platform as his intended platform, just like Bernie's and Trump's. I don't like Trump's platform, at all. Biden's platform is acceptable. Bernie's is lofty and made him lose many primaries. If only Bernie had moved slightly to the middle he would have captured many more votes. His loss.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
who here believed dr. ford?
who here believed dr. blasey ford?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
No, ogkb, I'm nothing like
No, ogkb, I'm nothing like you. Nobody here is. Go ahead and justify your behavior by convincing yourself that you're just doing what everyone is. It doesn't make it so.
If you actually read what I've been writing, rather than being so damn reactionary, you'd know that I credit Bernie with moving the Party platform to the left. If that was his goal in 2016, it should have been stated as such. That's just my opinion. Now, call me names, accuse me of shit, you do you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
can the koch bros die already
can the koch bros die already?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
it's the truth, bk. you've
it's the truth, bk. you've been saying the same shit for years, literally.
talk about denial. wow.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>>> You and I don't know
>>> You and I don't know what the SS trust gets cycled into because we are privelaged to that information in our average day media.
I know*.
You don't.
Kinda sums that up.
* U.S. Treasury Securities: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/specialissues.html
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
>>you've been saying the same
>>you've been saying the same shit for years, literally.
>>talk about denial. wow.
Now go say that to yourself in the mirror, "ogkb" dude. Can't even read the threads you're always vomiting upon, for reals...take a long lap. You aren't going to "win" around here, breh. Don't bother responding to me, I probably won't be back to this shitpile of a thread.
>>can the koch bros die already?
David's been done since last August, dude.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/david-koch-billionaire-conservative...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
oh isn't there another one,
oh isn't there another one, bro?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Nice to see more civil posts
Nice to see more civil posts on this thread
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
gravy we all know your
gravy we all know your history. sit down.
also
<<<>>>>who here believed dr. blasey ford?
crickets......
gravy already stated he doesn't believe biden's accuser, anybody else?
and if so, did you believe dr.ford?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I believe that someone is
I believe that someone is innocent until proven otherwise. At the time I reserved judgment until there was due process, and for Kavanaugh there was. Of course, it turned out to be a kangaroo court, and regardless of what came out in the hearings, he was going to be found innocent by the stacked jury. In that case, though, I got to hear compelling testimony that was very believable. On top of that, one of my oldest friends went to that same high school. He was a few years behind Kavanaugh, and said that it was well known that Kavanaugh and his friends would do shit like that. So yeah, I have plenty of info to believe her.
I would like to see some sort of due process for Biden so that we can learn more. Until then, I have no idea what happened.
Is that acceptable to you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I believe that someone is
....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
of course.
of course.
one of the major differences is coverage. it's almost nonexistent w/ biden, whereas kavanaugh, and rightfully so, was plastered all over every corporate news outlet and independent news nation wide.
biden has kept this closed for a long time, being as high profile as he is -- and the position he's running for demands dem voters and voters in general know the truth. just like kavanaugh.
heres the story for those who haven't heard:
https://twitter.com/kthalps/status/1242691746561167360?s=21
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: g-reg
Bump
Bump
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
do people here still not
do people here still not believe tara reade?
biden is done.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> one of the major
>> one of the major differences is coverage. it's almost nonexistent w/ biden, <<
He was all over MSNBC and CNN yesterday. Your claim is inaccurate.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
only in the past 24hrs.
only in the past 24hrs.
you try and spin shit just like trump.
figures tho, you're asking people to vote for a rapist.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Bernie is asking people to
Bernie is asking people to vote for a rapist, yet you don't say shit about him. Why? It's more fun to berate dudes on the black screen?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
lol bk.
lol bk.
what do you want me to say to bernie? fuck you asshole bernie!
is that better?
yes, he should've never endorsed -- was that ever an option? fuck no. can he rescind? of course. will he have to? idk, maybe.
but the media is doing a great job of normalizing rape for biden and asshole like you and ned, so go ahead, melt down and vote for the rapist -- we all know you of all people.......yeah.
bernie is not my hero, like you have stated. he has to play the game, you don't get that? it's totally fucked up, and why bernie didn't make it. too nice.
btw -- everything i've ever said here, i'd say to your face. no problem.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You, you, you...
You, you, you...
Chill the fuck out. Honestly, what is wrong with you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
lots.
me me me -- that's what centrists are about.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Whatever, Jersey Boy. We
Whatever, Jersey Boy. We should start calling you Ronnie, because you're pretty much a loud mouth idiot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
Little to no damage to Joe
Little to no damage to Joe bro
It's an obvious Linda Tripp dealeeeeo w/o the jizz dress. I've checked out this story and to anyone with an ounce of common sence it's a smear job 101.
The 3 people she said she told when it 1st happened were interviewed, they all said she never told them anything of the kind, nothing at all, no sexual assault, nada. Are they lying ? She mentioned bullying at work never once mentioning Biden. Said at the time she had 'great respect for the senator'. Would you say that if someone forced themselves on you and diddled your piddle ? It wasn't till years later the story morphed into a shove up against the wall. Riiiiiiiiight bro, she's believable. Nothing mentioned when Joe was VP one step from the presidency, but now this. Please wake up pyro, you don't seem like a bad guy at all, so why play devil's advocate all the fuckin time ? Or are you seriously that thought process challenged ? 100% a repub smear job a blind man can see
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
what's a ronnie? and you
what's a ronnie? and you think jersey is an insult? weird. but remember bk, you're that guy. gross.
ras, keep going -- this is awesome.
if by now you're still standing w/ biden. you have issues.
you are just as bad as the republicans you say you despise, ras.
very sad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
14 years old, guys.
14 years old, guys.
14. years. old.
i'm sure ras knows about this one and has already brushed it off as a russian/republican smear job. hahahaha!
harvey weinstein dems in 2020 (ras, ned, weird steve, slick, etc.) as just as bad as the republicans they hate.
strange times.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Pyramid, the choice is simple, either Biden or Trump will win the general election. You seem unable or unwilling to understand this fact.
>by now you're still standing w/ biden. you have issues>
One issue, the Supreme Court.
I care about the court because its decisions will affect all of society for generations.
If Trump wins a second term he will not only stack the Supreme Court with a Conservative majority, he will also continue to pack the appeals court with unqualified judges.
I have stated this multiple times, but you seem far too myopic to understand.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
Yer just not one for
Yer just not one for cognitive thought pyro, so sad. Rave on
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> and you think jersey is an
>> and you think jersey is an insult? <<
LOL
Ironically, pheat wants Biden to lose feel "vindicated". It has nothing to do with what's best for our country.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Yeah, I'm that guy, lol.
Yeah, I'm that guy, lol.
It must really illustrate to you the injustices of the world to know that someone like me will always have more than a low IQ blow hard like you, and I'm not talking about material things.
What is it like to be always wrong, with your only recourse to be all lashy outy towards people who know more, have experienced more, and are generally better people?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: g-reg
..here's a timeline
..here's a timeline
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/30/tara-reade-has-accused-jo...
..biden claims 'national archives' would have record of the incident documented but they don't keep those records its up to the senator and staff . He knows that
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
We have people comparing this
We have people comparing this situation with that of Christine Blasey Ford. While sexual harassment and assault know no boundaries, and happens all too frequently to women of all socio-economic standing and cultural backgrounds, and obviously is a scourge that shouldn't happen at all, I think the stark differences in the two situations and the credibility of the women will be scrutinized.
Wikipedia reports Ford is an American professor of psychology at Palo Alto University and a research psychologist at the Stanford University School of Medicine. She specializes in designing statistical models for research projects. During her academic career, Ford has worked as a professor at the Stanford University School of Medicine Collaborative Clinical Psychology Program. For her life story and credentials, the link is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford
Ms. Reade has a much different past and history. I'm not sure of the rock solid credentials of these reporters and haven't verified all the information (check it out for yourself but there were no results on Snopes), but they have come up with a few interesting tidbits and they are here. https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstein While I admire greatly getting through law school and as a single mom, they allege Ms. Read has a couple of hundred thousand dollars in law school tuition bills outstanding (need a book deal?), and ripped off a non-profit she worked with, and had asked them to hide a vehicle of hers that was in danger of repossession. We already know her narrative seems to have changed. Thus far, the only thing to go on is here is her word that it happened and that she told others her story. There's no way to conclude whether or not she made up the story, and if it was after being let go. She has no record of her official complaint to the Senate and can't remember when or where it happened. This link above has a story that shows a progression of her statements about Joe Biden. While she is free to have whatever political views she wants, her tweets in support of Vladimir Putin add a dimension to her story that she may be part of an effort to affect the US election, which I'm sure Vlad would like his puppet Donnie to win.
So while I'm sure I'll be attacked by some as being anti-women and not being sensitive enough to the allegations (the women in my life will tell you quite different), I think the difference in credibility of the players involved and their motives may be a topic for discussion. Especially after the NY Times sent two women reporters to investigate and they interviewed about 40 people with no real corroboration and no evidence of a complaint, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexu... and Politico and Andrea Mitchell of NBC report little support and verification from the people Ms. Reade said to talk to. Ms. Blasey Ford, who had been silent for years while she continually enhanced her reputation as a scholar, came forward to report when she saw her accused attacker considered for a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. Ms. Reade has had multiple opportunities to tell her story during Mr. Biden's ascent to the Vice-Presidency and until this year, did not pursue them as vigilantly as she is now. It will be interesting to see what happens when the bright lights of the media shine on the life of Ms. Reade as they did on Ms. Blasey Ford.
Hey, you guys have a good day. I'm off to hunt dandelions and try and get some home chores done before it rains.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Hmmmm, new info doesn't help
Hmmmm, new info doesn't help her credibility much.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tara-reade-joe-biden-report-uncomfortable...
From the link above:
Editor’s Note: Tara Reade responded Saturday to an Associated Press tweet about this story that read, “Tara Reade says a Senate report she filed against Joe Biden didn’t refer to sexual harassment or assault.” Reade responded, without elaborating, “This is false.”
WASHINGTON (AP) — Tara Reade, the former Senate staffer who alleges Joe Biden sexually assaulted her 27 years ago, says she filed a limited report with a congressional personnel office that did not explicitly accuse him of sexual assault or harassment.
“I remember talking about him wanting me to serve drinks because he liked my legs and thought I was pretty and it made me uncomfortable,” Reade said in an interview Friday with The Associated Press. “I know that I was too scared to write about the sexual assault.”
Reade said she described her issues with Biden but “the main word I used — and I know I didn’t use sexual harassment — I used ‘uncomfortable.’ And I remember ‘retaliation.’”
Reade described the report after the AP discovered additional transcripts and notes from its interviews with Reade last year in which she says she “chickened out” after going to the Senate personnel office. The AP interviewed Reade in 2019 after she accused Biden of uncomfortable and inappropriate touching. She did not raise allegations of sexual assault against Biden until this year, around the time he became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.
The existence of the Senate report has become a key element of the accusations against Biden, which he has flatly denied. Reade says she doesn’t have a copy of the report, and Biden said Friday that he is not aware that any complaint against him exists. He asked the Senate and the National Archives to search their records to try to locate a complaint from Reade.
But Reade is suggesting that even if the report surfaces, it would not corroborate her assault allegations because she chose not to detail them at the time.
More...
During one of the April 2019 interviews with the AP, she said Biden rubbed her shoulders and neck and played with her hair. She said she was asked by an aide in Biden’s Senate office to dress more conservatively and told “don’t be so sexy.”
She said of Biden: “I wasn’t scared of him, that he was going to take me in a room or anything. It wasn’t that kind of vibe.”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
bk, you are that guy -- that
bk, you are that guy -- that guy that tells a dirty joke to a female co-worker, then has leave the job.
i don't care that you can't accept that.
im an asshole here.
you're that guy tho -- i'll take the asshole label over what you did tho. in real life. yeah, lol.
gross.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
It's amazing that you act
It's amazing that you act like you know what happened. It's my story, I told it here, and you've somehow made shit up and have now ran with your own fantasies for a few years. In doing so you've lied about me, called me names, trolled me, whatever. The fact remains, you're using your own lies to justify acting like you do. That's not normal.
You've admitted that your an asshole. I'm not convinced. Based on how you act towards me and others, I'd just say that at best there's something wonky in your head.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
< I'm not convinced.
< I'm not convinced.
Hahaaa why the political correctness lie man ? Ya know you're convinced, we're all convinced. For, fucking years now.
Our words but a whisper, his deafness a shout
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Bernie is bye bye
Bernie is bye bye
do your heads hurt from slamming them repeatedly?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
I proudly stand with Joseph
I proudly stand with Joseph Biden. Saw HRC endorse him and it almost brought me to tears.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^haha.
^haha.
what are you going on about, bk?
i really don't give a fuck about your creepy lifestyle man.
you didn't say you told a dirty joke at work to a female co-worker, and then had to leave b/c of that behavior?
you shared that story here years back, and i remember thinking, wow, why is this guy sharing this story w/ us. lol.
freak on man.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Where Does The Time Go?
ogkb, what are hoping to
ogkb, what are hoping to accomplish here?
serious question.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You made up the part about me
You made up the part about me "having to leave." You make up a lot of shit.
Meanwhile, you're a 30 year old who constantly trolls dudes the same age as your parents, spewing lies, mistruths, and generally being a douche. Day in and day out, bro. That's your lifestyle, in the here and now, every day.. You are "that guy," and probably the creepiest mofo on this site.
Take your meds.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
4.0
4.0
so you didn't leave? i only know what you have posted here. you did that in real life man, not some dbmb lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
He's just being a troll,
He's just being a troll, Trebor. Instead of focusing on a topic, he's fixated on some fantasy story that he made up, based on one post I made over 5 years ago. Over and over, he keeps spewing the mistruth, like he "knows." Who the fuck acts like that? I told the fucking story a long time ago. It was inconsequential, yet a few dudes have latched on to it like total freaks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Was it about bbc?
Was it about bbc?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
you act like you don't call
you act like you don't call me names and say fucked up shit.
i can take it.
how come you can't?
and........
so you didn't leave? you made that up?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Why is it that any time
Why is it that any time someone posts something in earnest it's a "melt?" Does it upset you?
Stand down and grow up.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
for slick and ras :
for slick and ras :
https://twitter.com/kthalps/status/1256682224646336518?s=21
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
that post is false. youre
that post is false. youre lying again bk.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Dude, get help.
Dude, get help.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
take my meds
take my meds
get help
wonky brain
keep going buddy -- but you don't make fun, right? especially of mental health?
<<<>>>
and........
so you didn't leave? you made that up?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Look at how you act. It's not
Look at how you act. It's not normal. In fact, most would consider it harassment.
I will not be discussing any further details, so stand down.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
we know, bk.
we know, bk.
viva's (and pz's) resident creep.
one should probably watch their daughters around BK the way you would around Biden.
sad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Wow, just wow.
Wow, just wow.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Wait...now a vote for Biden
Wait...now a vote for Biden will get me on the Child-Predator list? Crazy times.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Blue Rose Task Force
Me thinks P heat needs a lil
Me thinks P heat needs a lil longer than 7 days to cool off, this guy really gets off on slander.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Meanwhile, does anyone who
Meanwhile, does anyone who isn't a Berniebro or a Trumpbot actually believe that there's merit to the scam artist's sexual harassment claims? She was a known scam artist long before her ever changing Biden accusations. Anyone besides the BernieBros or Trumpbots actually believe that Trump - a self professed pussy grabber - is a better option than Biden?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
Senate rejects Joe Biden’s
Senate rejects Joe Biden’s request to search for records on Tara Reade
Senate secretary said legal counsel advised that ‘the secretary has no discretion to disclose any such information’
The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/04/joe-biden-tara-reade-sen...
Big f'n shocker here. Why help exonerate Joe ? Also in their handbook, page 27 I believe -- When in power, release no documents.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
8 woman total.
8 woman total.
centrists now going after reade's family and kids.
biden needs to be replaced at the convention.
who here believes dr. ford but not tara reade?
this is a depiction of this thread and it's liberal posters:
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sigmund
Shouldn't you be out grabbing
Shouldn't you be out grabbing pussy, honorably?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^nah, i'm not a centrist or
^nah, i'm not a centrist or republican.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Like Nancy said, at this
Like Nancy said, at this point, nobody cares except fringe butt hurt Bernie bro's looking for a win and vindication after a string of losses and Trumpists. All of it still won't prevent Biden's landslide victory come November - which I know bothers people like p heat to no end.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
My touchy feely make you
My touchy feely make you uncomfortable guy's better than your incestuous walking std married but prefer a whore pussy grabber.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
"where things stand now, it’s
"where things stand now, it’s hard to compare Blasey’s case with Reade’s. Blasey had four sworn affidavits from people whom she’d told that she’d been assaulted, as well as therapist’s notes and the results from a polygraph. She testified, and was cross-examined, under oath. The Democratic plea, at the time, was for a thorough F.B.I. investigation... If Ford had written anything like Reade's tweet anticipating that her charge would help Sanders defeat Biden ("Yup. timing..wait for it... tick tock"), Democrats would have fled her case en masse." Making the argument that liberals are hypocrites for not immediately supporting Reade reeks of Republican propaganda, not an honest exploration of the facts.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/joe-biden-tara-reade-can-democra...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^centrists attempting to
^centrists attempting to justify by any means voting for biden. quite sad and very cringe worthy.
what you and they are doing to reade is what the republicans you say you hate did to dr. ford.
ford has zero contemporaneous witnesses.
reade has several legit witnesses who were told exactly what happened at the time, and told reade to file a police report.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
Nope
Nope
Where exactly do you get your info from bro, because its lies. To not possess the ability to decipher truth from lies is a brain flaw far too common in the internet age. Sad
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Blue Rose Task Force
The Eleven Day Bump of
The Eleven Day Bump of Reflection.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
They can reflect on this.
They can reflect on this for as many days as they want.
Medium.com (don't register - I think they sell your name) documented the Reade lunacy.
The New York Times found nothing after interviewing 40 people. Both those links are in this thread somewhere above in a post of mine.
And now PBS News Hour takes a turn, and AGAIN, Joe comes out clean. WHAT WILL IT TAKE??? Bring it on, Trumpies. Wanna discuss sexual assault??
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-74-former-biden-staffers-thin...
From the story...
The PBS NewsHour spoke with 74 former Biden staffers, of whom 62 were women, in order to get a broader picture of his behavior toward women over the course of his career, how they see the new allegation, and whether there was evidence of a larger pattern.
None of the people interviewed said that they had experienced sexual harassment, assault or misconduct by Biden. All said they never heard any rumors or allegations of Biden engaging in sexual misconduct, until the recent assault allegation made by Tara Reade. Former staffers said they believed Reade should be heard, and acknowledged that their experiences do not disprove her accusation.
In all, the NewsHour tried to contact nearly 200 former staffers of Biden’s, based primarily on public records of his time in the Senate and White House and also from interviews with current campaign advisers. They include former interns and senior aides, from his 1972 Senate campaign through his time at the White House.
Some are still in politics, others left long ago to pursue other careers. They were asked about Reade’s allegation but also whether they, or anyone they know, were ever uncomfortable around Biden. Many said that her sexual assault allegation was at odds with their knowledge of Biden’s behavior toward women.
The interviews revealed previously unreported details about the Biden office when Reade worked there, such as an account that she lost her job because of her poor performance, not as retaliation for lodging complaints about sexual harassment, as Reade has said.
Other recollections from former staffers corroborated things she has described publicly, such as Biden’s use of the Senate gym and a supervisor admonishing her for dressing inappropriately.
Overall, the people who spoke to the NewsHour described largely positive and gratifying experiences working for Biden, painting a portrait of someone who was ahead of his time in empowering women in the workplace.
“The one thing about Joe Biden is, he is a man of the highest character and that’s why these accusations are so surreal and just can’t comport with the man I worked with,” said Marcia Lee Taylor, a senior policy advisor on the Judiciary Committee, where women held leading roles when Biden served as chairman.
Reade declined the NewsHour’s interview request but her attorney, Doug Wigdor, sent detailed answers to a number of questions by email. He wrote that Biden’s public touching is evidence that he could have mistreated his client in the way she claims.
“I don’t think anyone would describe these situations as normal,” Wigdor wrote. “They are troublesome, to say the least.”
Many former Biden staffers said they believe Reade’s allegation is false.
The NewsHour spoke with more than 20 people who worked for Biden when Reade was also a staffer. Some remembered her, many did not.
Ben Savage, who said his desk was next to Reade’s in the Biden mailroom, disputed her charge that she was forced out of her job in retaliation for a sexual harassment complaint she claims to have filed.
Savage, who worked as the office’s systems administrator, overseeing computers and information processing, told the NewsHour that Reade was fired for her poor performance on the job, which he witnessed — not as retaliation for her complaints about sexual harassment.
But according to Savage, Reade had been mishandling a key part of her job and an essential office task — processing constituent mail, something they worked on together. Savage said he recalls reporting these issues to his boss, deputy chief of staff Dennis Toner. After that, Savage said he began diminishing Reade’s duties, taking over some of her tasks and rerouting parts of the process to exclude her.
“Of all the people who held that position, she’s the only one during my time there who couldn’t necessarily keep up or who found it frustrating,” said Savage, who worked in the office for three years, from 1993 to 1996.
Reade’s attorney told the NewsHour that Reade recalls the assault happening “in a semiprivate area like an alcove” and that it was “somewhere between the Russell (building) and/or Capitol building.” He pointed out that survivors often have difficulty with specifics about trauma.
Reade’s description aligns with other staffers’ recollections of Biden’s short indoor route between his office and the Capitol. It is a roughly 10-minute walk that consists of one flight of stairs and one long hallway inside the Russell Building, followed by a wide tunnel through which he could walk or take an internal subway train to the Capitol.
The layout of that route and building has not changed. A recent walk through that area showed the subway tunnel contains no out-of-view areas, like an alcove. The remaining portion of the route includes multiple stairwells as well as corridors lined with offices. It is a main thoroughfare for senators and staffers.
Some former staffers told the NewsHour that if Biden did assault Reade in any of these places, it would have been a brazen attack in an area with a high risk of being seen.
In interviews, staffers have also raised doubts about Reade’s claim that she was asked to serve drinks at a fundraiser, an incident she said she included in an official complaint of sexual harassment submitted while she worked in the office.
But more than 50 former staffers said they didn’t remember ever attending a fundraiser for Biden in Washington, D.C., when they were on his Senate staff. And some recalled an office policy banning most of Biden’s Senate staff from doing campaign work.
“Never would have happened,” said Melissa Lefko, who was a staff assistant in Biden’s office during the time Reade was there. “We all knew there was a very hard line there.”
Further, two men who worked as junior staffers for Biden said the senator specifically did not want women to serve beverages, like coffee, or perform other menial tasks in his Senate office or on the committees he chaired. Men were typically asked to perform such tasks.
“He didn’t want an image of a young woman staffer serving him,” said John Earnhardt, who took over Reade’s duties. Reade left the office in mid-1993, after working there approximately nine months.
Biden’s office was known for having women-friendly work policies. For example, he promoted at least one Senate staffer while she was on maternity leave. As vice president, he helped secure paid family leave for White House employees.
Female staffers who spent countless hours with Biden, including in one-on-one settings, like his small private office in the U.S. Capitol, known as a “hideaway,” said he never made passes at them or behaved in other ways that suggested sexual impropriety.
Victoria Nourse, who served as Biden’s top lawyer on the Judiciary Committee in the early 1990s, recalled Biden’s reaction when another official made a comment about her looks in front of Biden during a flight in 1991. The man said, “‘Oh Joe, let me sit next to the pretty girl,’” recalled Nourse, who later served as Biden’s chief counsel in the White House.
Biden told the man off, Nourse said, “making it clear that we were here for work, and that was inappropriate — in a very no nonsense way.”
“I traveled with him all over the world, all over the country. I was alone with him all the time,” said Elizabeth Alexander, a former Senate and White House aide. “Never, ever, ever did I feel uncomfortable.”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
Tara Reade is a Russian paid
Tara Reade is a Russian paid actor.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Wouldn't be surprised, given
Wouldn't be surprised, given her tweets praising Putin. He definitely has a dog in this hunt.
In some of the research I've done, I seem to remember she had about $200,000 in tuition debt from law school (never took the bar I guess).
Being she described her occupation as a "freelance writer", seems like it would be a challenge, something a book deal or a gift from a fat cat republican donor might help with.
Wonder if someone at the college would spill the beans about recent payments?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Sanders slept with Tara
Sanders slept with Tara
They met in the center
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Oaksterdam Dan
Tara Reade has lied so many
Tara Reade has lied so many times to so many people.
She seam to target rich california's who could take care of her & her horse.
One woman in 30 years of public life for Biden. If Tara were true 30 other woman like TRUMP situation would be going on!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Tara is irrelevant because
Tara is irrelevant because the BernieBros were never going to vote for Biden or whoever won the nomination,unless it was their dear Bernie. The Tara narrative just gives them an excuse to be vocal about how they're going to vote Green or write in Bernie.
2016 Redux, only this time they look even more ridiculous doing Putin's bidding. Good news is most Bernie supporters have wised up since 2016, and more people will vote for the Democratic nominee because the alternative is just not an option. That's assuming the Trump regime doesn't cancel the elections or make it impossible to vote by mail.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
biden believes that if your
biden believes that if your spouse dies from covid and your healthcare was tied to their employment, your fucked.
the 2016 redux is biden -- except the dnc has somehow found an even worse candidate than HRC.
impressive.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
BernieBros are also
BernieBros are also irrelevant.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
centrists will lose the
centrists will lose the election to trump.
again.
it is funny tho how pointing out how pelosi/dems are fucking the working class w/ trump by robbing the country in plain sight and giving it to the elites, and take biden's proposed healthcare plan not changing a thing or helping the people that need it -- the vote blue no matter who crowd complete silence.
y'all got nothing on that. you just take it to the face, burry it, and tell berniebro and post a meme.
trash.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Those voting for Biden aren't
Those pledging their vote for Biden aren't centrists, necessarily- more likely realists who don't wish to see the Trump regime continue to destroy our country.
BernieBros would rather see the country destroyed for the sake of their 'revolution' - because that worked out so well for them in 2016..
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: a lullaby the breezes whisper
bernie and AOC endorse and
>>> centrists will lose the election to trump. <<<
bernie and AOC endorse and are voting for biden.
bernie and AOC are smart.
Can we call them centrist now?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
Dude can't spell "bury" or
Dude can't spell "bury" or "you're".
Brocialist fuckwit.
It'd be funny if it wasn't sad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
white women really helped
white women really helped trump over the edge in 2016.
they aren't centrists, thod -- i don't expect you to know this b/c you went in hard for fake progressive warren lol. that's rough.
they're just playing their game, trying to get their base to abandon their morals and vote for a pos.
how come you don't understand that? you certainly blindly follow.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
bluest please start another
bluest please start another "every cd i own is trash" thread-of-the-year
i need a good gut-laugh
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
what's up my little centrist,
what's up my little centrist, bluest. typing in the iphone isn't the easiest, but you got me! i wish i wasn't so stupid. lol.
fucking tool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
They say someone named Brian
They say someone named Brian D has smelly feet, but I don't know what that means.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
The whole of VLZ wishes you
The whole of VLZ wishes you weren't so stupid, P-Nutz. lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
haha nice.
haha nice.
yeah you just pick out a spelling error, that's it?
you have nothing else to say?
you're a bitch.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Bluest post something either
bluest post something either cool or on-topic for the first time in your decades of zoning
here, i'll wait
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^haha right.
^haha right.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
Wow. A scumbag tag-team.
Wow. A scumbag tag-team.
Must be Monday.
Dolt & Douche will have their day.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
no one gets your references
no one gets your references and you arent really from new york
not sure what monday has to do with how shitty you zone tho
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Well, alrighty then. Guess
Well, alrighty then. Guess Biden answered my question.
Newsweek headline:
BIDEN SAYS ANYONE WHO BELIEVES TARA READE SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR HIM
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-says-anyone-who-believes-tara-reade-shoul...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ParadiseWaits
Why does Biden keep telling
Why does Biden keep telling people not to vote for him if he really wants to beat trump? "Don't vote for me if you don't like it" is becoming his catch phrase.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
He is saying that because her
He is saying that because her claim is so transparently false that you have to an IQ of a mentally challenged 7 year old to believe her which would place one squarely in the Trump voter zone anyway.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
https://www.commondreams.org
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/25/joe-biden-needs-stay-away-...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Woz from downtown!
Woz from downtown! Swoosh. Nothing but net.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
https://www.youtube.com/watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9434BoGkNQ
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
A lot of privi white males
A lot of privi white males like Woz are trying to shame a woman's story of sexual abuse. These people are literally the same as the trumpers they claim to be against. That's right Woz, after all your talk and your bullshit you are no different than any trump supporter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
of course woz would say that.
of course woz would say that.
he supported bloomberg lol.
dude has more sexual assault cases than even trump.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Tara Reade = Bernie bro's
Tara Reade = Bernie bro's wrong again. SMH. Sorry guys maybe you'll get something right soon? Hahaha so many swings and misses.
Biden 2020 by a landslide!!!!!!!