John Muir Trail / PCT

Get some snowshoes

Sounds like a blast.  My kids are really only good for about 5 miles round trip so far before I'm carrying one or both of them.  I'd bet there's gonna be a lot of snow still in mid June.  Yosemite Valley is getting snow for the next 10 days.  And that's the valley.  Higher elevations already have a bunch of snow.  Was up near Shaver Lake on Sunday and was stoked on how much snow there was.  8 foot drifts in some spots of the forest. 

I recommend getting the boots sooner than later and breaking them in.  Also we could probably pick you up in Tuolomne if you need.

those particular osolos have a very soft heal counter (no rigid cup), so excellent for NOT blistering... well worth the expense IF they fit your foot:

https://www.asolo.com/en/products/backpacking/power-matic/power-matic-200-gv-dark-graphite.html

funny you should bring up bugs and snow... after her trip last year (where they got eaten alive) I suggested to her that the best (only!) time to backpack in the Sierra is Aug through Oct.... I've had to literally run off the mountain (predawn) on the JMT between Mammoth and Tuolumne by insane swarms of mosquitoes as late as early July, and the big snow pack will make for potentially difficult and even dangerous creek crossings, not to mention hazardous packed snow fields (ice axe territory), whereas even by late August, the snow, bugs and runoff are significantly diminished (also, much better wildflowers).

It's also curious that she's apparently planning to do Mammoth to Yosemite again since I think that's what they did last year?  It is beautiful, and the logistics are easier (shuttles and such), but the JMT a little South of Mammoth is less crowded, has bigger peaks, higher passes (basins) and even a good share of big yosemite-esqe granite walls... and if they have 30 days, they can cover pretty much the whole thing.

As I mentioned to her, if I'm available when you guys go I would be happy to either hike in a re-supply or do a shuttle (caravan with you guys to your finishing point, drop your car, and then I drive you all back up to the starting point).

Hope you can pull it off!

re-reading you post and I'm guessing they're starting in Yosemite going South (not Mammoth to Yosemite)...

That sounds like a beautiful and arduous trek and so much fun to do with your daughter.

What Timmy said about boots.  What works great for one person may not fit you.  Go try a bunch on.  Buy now and start wearing them around.  Also, even though it's spendy, REI will let you return them for a year, even if you've worn the shit out of them.  This makes a lot of sense with boots in case something turns out to be funky upon repeated wearing.

Mid June sounds too soon, the high country will be buried in snow after 4th of July, if not later. If you need to borrow some stuff, let me know. Backpack, cooking stuff, tent, thermarest.  I think we have a little coffin sized tent for one if you need, or a sweet one for two.

Also, for 30 days, you are probably going to want to re-up on food somewhere.  I know there are places where you can send yourself supplies.  You COULD carry 30 days of food, but it would be pretty heavy.

We got destroyed by mosquitos in Trinity Alps over 4th of July once. 

We are thinking of doing a 4-5 day trip on Olympic Nat'l Park in Sept.  Have been but never backpacked. Or back to Utah, our old stand by. We have unfinished business there.

Take lots of photos and start a Zoner photo/travel blog.

carrying 30 days' of supplies is pretty much impossible, but resupplies can be pre-mailed (typically in a 5 gallon bucket) to a few places along the way: Red's Meadow (Devil's postpile); Vermillion Ranch (Edison Lake); and Muir Ranch (on the approach to Evolution Valley)... it's still a looong way from Muir Ranch to Whitney, so a good (hiked in) resupply spot is at Bubb's creek (accessed from Onion Valley/Kearsarge pass on the East side... basic one day hike in, one day hike out).

>>>4-5 day trip on Olympic Nat'l Park in Sept.

sounds awesome... I believe jonjonnyjon is the knowledge dude for them thar parts.

I hiked the whole PCT including the JMT portion in 1996.

My suggestion is to pack light. Scenery is beautiful, lot of big elevation gains and drops, and the lighter you pack the easier it will be, particularly over the high passes. I had an ice axe with me and used it for everything from chopping steps on an icy face, to self arrest on a slope to diggin shit holes. Really came in handy, particularly chopping steps. I was wearing light weight shoes, (which was better for me than heavy boots), but if you bring heavy boots make sure they are broken in and do a bunch of hiking for the month or two leading up to it so your feet get calloused. Nothing worse then a ton of blisters and nothing you can do about it except apply moleskin or duct tape (definitely bring some of this). There were spots where the mosquitos were absolutely horrible, bring a small container of deet based repellent but also be prepared to set up a tent very quickly and get inside. However, they weren't bad everywhere, they seemed concentrated in certain spots. I didn't see any bear through there, but heard lots of stories so it may make sense to hang your food, although I just used my food bag as my pillow and never had a problem. The side trip up Mt. Whitney was fun and worth it. The water was good and plentiful, so I rarely treated it, just tried to make sure it was right from a spring or just barely downstream. Don't mess with a water filter, but maybe bring some iodine tablets in case you need water and the source is questionable.

I wasn't there on a bad snow year and there was still a ton of snow in the high country. I would count on a  few stretches of 5 to 10 miles of snow travel this June, but it will have gone through a lot of freeze/thaw cycles and will be packed down and something you can walk on versus sinking up to your knee.

Oh yeah, and bring lots of ganja. 

Have fun!

Who packs the beer in n out? 

>> if not now, when?

yes, do it!   I would love to do that, go for it.

>>>Any advice for a tenderfoot?

- renting from REI is a solid plan;... def rent a bear cannister (don't get talked into trying hang food.. it's illegal and takes years to get right).

- down sleeping bag rated to 30-40 degrees if you sleep warm, 10 to 20 if you sleep cold (like me).

- use a one person tent (like BOBT described) with bathtub floor, rain fly and mosquito netting... don't get talked into using just a tarp and ground cloth.. if it storms and you get it wrong, you'll suffer like a mofo.  Practice setting up tent at home using rocks (don't bother even carrying stakes, a lot of the earth is sandy/loose, and there is no shortage of rocks up there).

- carry four sox and change them out each day (2 light, 2 medium smartwool).  First sign of hot spot (itchy burning heal), apply Tagaderm and  medical tape around it on all 4 sides (leaving the center un-taped)... leave it on for the remainder of the trip (Tagaderm is for bedsores, so it breaths, but can also get wet and will act like a second tough layer of skin).

- carry a rain suit, preferrably goretex (I have a jacket I can loan you if you don't have one)... it can be used as a shell for warmth at night and in the cold mornings (rain poncho is pretty much only good for if it rains)... this system allows you to just bring board shorts, polypro long undies (top and bottom), a couple t shirts and a light pile or down jacket (or maybe even just a light pile or down vest if you tend to run warm).  No jeans or heavy flannel shirts that never dry, wick heat away, and weigh a ton when wet. 

- Flip flops are ok for camp shoes.

- on longer than 3-5 day trips, don't get caught up bringing extravagant, complex foods that requires extra time/energy/fuel to prepare and clean up (and FUCK prepackaged freeze dried shit!).. you'll be beat and will be happy with some ramen, almonds and chocolate before crashing out.  Sometimes I don't even cook (or bring a stove)...I just eat foil packs of tuna.   Kynd and Pro bars are excellent for breakfast with coffee (#2 cone filter, bury the grounds and hike out the filter) as well as on the trail (along with some beef jerky).  I like to have something fatty for when I first get to camp after a long hike (salami and cheese), but I find fatty foods at lunch make me too low energy when the hiking resumes.

- even us darker types will burn at altitude, so sun hat, liptrip, and sun screen! or, if you don't want to deal with carrying and applying sunscreen, wear long (nylon) hiking pants and (nylon) button down hiking shirt (this has been my method for some time).

- if it looks like a thunder/lightning storm is coming, don't try to cross any passes... wait down below tree line if possible and it will most likely pass by late afternoon.

- carry a light first aid kit including above mentioned blister kit (multiple tagaderm pads), iodine, gauze, regular and butterfly bandaids, mini swiss knife with scissors/tweezers, aleve, imodium, whistle, spare boot laces (tourniquet), lighter, weed, pipe, etc..  No need for big ole buck knife, hatchets or heavy rope...

- put phone on airplane mode to save battery (carry extra batteries if you plan to use the phone as a camera).

I'm sure I'll think of more lol...

oh yeah, poop...  go way away from camping spots and dig a hole asscheeks style.  conversationalists will tell you to pack your TP out, but that's pretty nasty... and if it's cheap single ply and buried with the poop, it will break down OK, (put a good sized rock on top of refilled hole)

ah, starting with Whitney... very cool! but very tough.. 14,500' on day 2 and it will be totally snow and ice in June...

>>>used my food bag as my pillow and never had a problem.

I stopped that practice after waking up with a bear in my face..

and, all water in the Sierra is questionable! 

turtle. go... it will be the time of your life....

look seriously into good gear, dont skimp on things...... pay attention to the quality of your tent, and sleeping gear.... weather you rent it, buy or borrow,, good gear will make it or break it.....

at the end of a long day, you have 2 things...... dinner....... and bed... these things need most of the attention in planning and are really most of the weight you carry.... consider heavier choices if it means a bump up in quality.....

for example. you need to bring a 4 season tent... like it or not, the extra 5 pounds will matter in a storm..

next rant...... training.....

if you do not train, and go, you will hate life, and possibly die from dehydration, or blowing your planned agenda because your not fit...

carry around 35 pounds for several weeks before... and one week before hike around with 50 ppounds..... i know this sounds extreme, but you will thank me on day 5, when your feelin good, and moving along.....

man what a great time!! have a blast!

Jonnyjon, this is the Sierra... a 2 pound three season tent is all one needs in the Summer, and the section he's talking about is only a 3 to 5 day hike, which he will suffer like a dog on (no matter what training he does at sea level), especially since his daughter will have already been hiking for 3 weeks at tougher,  higher elevations and will be pushing the pace. 

his only chance to not suffer like a dog is to do what you said AND get to Mammoth a few days early, sleep at elevation, and do a couple of long day hikes with a moderate day pack.

there are pretty much no bugs after the first real cold nights in late Aug/early Sept...I'm pretty much always up for a trip then, so yeah, let's figure something out.

i find hiking with heavy jugs of water to simply be the best training for hiking with a heavy pack....

the shoulders and knees take a beating, and the hips need to be truly in shape so as not to be miserable popping ibuprofen the whole time....

by the way.... bring a big botttle of ibuprofen, and take it morning and night...

I still would bring a few bandanas just in case those black flies are around during those hot days on the trail. Bandanas are great for swatting them away or wearing over your mouth. I also like having a steripen with me for the water treatment.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=steripen&tag=googhydr-20&inde...

Great info. My son is planning on hiking the Long Trail this Summer, and honestly thinks he can do it in any boots he wants.

>>>black flies are around during those hot days on the trail.

We did a small section of the PCT when we were backpacking on Mt. Adams this summer.  Black flies were terrible.  And when we got up out of the woods above timberline, swarms of mosquitos breeding in the wet, receding snow fields took their place.

Get a lifestraw water filter.  

>>>Get a lifestraw water filter.

I have something similar - a Sawyer Mini Water Filter and that thing was a godsend when I was backpacking the Black Range in NM last year.  A larger Katadyn might be the way to go though, especially if you will have multiple people in your party.  For backpacking gear in general, counting every ounce you will have your back all day will make a difference, so if you got money to spend, don't cheap out and go for the lightest, most functional stuff you can find (and you will paying $$$ for each and every ounce you shed with high tech, ultra light weight gear).    

Pack some L

There will definitely be tons of snow in June.  This is the deepest snow pack in 10 years and if it keeps going the way it is, maybe deepest ever.  The latest in august she can go before, I assume, back to school.

>>> Turtle on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 – 04:44 pm

>>> well i should probably put $ and time off towards this rather than dnb alaska...

um... any reason you can't do both? T, maybe you need to start a GoFundMe campaign... lotsa people do so, successfully, for far more frivolous undertakings

To me, Gofundme is no dif. than standing at the freeway ramp with a sign. OK if your kids are starving.but not otherwise.

YMMV.

Just do it....will be the best time of your life and you will never forget....bonus that it's with yor daughter. 

As a side note, I ran stairs inside my house to train for a yosemite climb and actually was one of the oldest that finished.   50% of the group bailed.   

Great timing for this thread.  We are taking 3 teens from Devils Postpile (Mammoth) to Yosemite Valley.  My brother just found out he was going to be a grandpa, so we are moving the trip up into late July instead of August.    The permit process blows, it is like getting tickets for a big show in a very small venue.  I will not be deterred, lol.

T as for shoes, I hike in Trail Runners with a boot sole, changed my world.  https://www.leftlanesports.com/product.aspx?p=ALT01331&a=GoogleBase&gcli... I use these with the wide toe area for swelling.  Super light weight and wont break the bank.

I like the Merrell trail shoe, The med size one would be perfect for your hike. Gives nice ankle support for that heavy pack you will be carrying.  I would go try some on first before buying anything mail order.

http://www.zappos.com/p/merrell-moab-fst-mid-waterproof-noire/product/87...

Sierra Trading Post 

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/merrell~b~13400/shoes~d~4/

the honor would be mine, br'er Turtle wave shredder Paoa Kahanamoku.

we'll need to get permits and it's always nice to get a car camping spot near the trailhead to crash/acclimate for a couple nights before hiking in...  I was already eyeing a cool hike out of Sequoia and if we end up deciding on doing that, Hoovs (and others?) can hang maybe join us at the car camp there.

if that sounds like an ok tentative plan to you, we need to make a reservation for car camping  pretty soon (it can always be cancelled, but those spots fill up 6 - 8 months out).  I was thinking of the week after Labor day when there are less crowds (the week of Sept 9-16), but I would be open to the week of Labor day or the week before...

And I am already planning to do this solo, so if you end up having to bail, it's no big deal, but I think this particular hike would be perfect to get your feet wet... it's not terribly high altitude, or too rigorous, and it's easy to retreat back to the car in one day if something goes south,  yet within a couple days of moderate length hikes we can be enjoying this view:

Moose Lake (Tablelands area, Sequoia)

and those boots Bart linked will work fine if you have average/strong ankles and no arch issues... lighter boots like those with the weight of a backpack can expose those issues, but are very easy to break in.

those Osolos I linked are in between a light weight boot and a heavy boot.. they offer better ankle support and have a more rigid sole, so you don't feel rocks through the sole (with the weight of a backpack), yet I was able to break them in in just wearing them around the house and at work for a couple days... very soft heal cup area that doesn't rip at your heal like a stiff heal cup can do.

Here's an idea of what T-Daughter will be looking at in June (with more snow since 2011 wasn't as big a snow year)

here's the climb to get to 13,500' Whitney trail crest (day two, assuming they make Trail camp on day one)

And it gets gnarlier...

if they make good progress, they will hit 13,150' Forester pass on day 4 or 5... pic on left is again early season, but not terribly heavy snow year.. pic on right shows same trail with no snow.

up close look a the chute crossing

soooo they'll def need an ice axe and knowledge (practice!) self arresting with a heavy pack.. or just fucking wait 'til August lol

That looks dangerous as fuck without a pack on.

and good luck on the permits Jamjuice! I read that Yosemite has really tightened up on them due to (they claim) a '100% increase' in demand of the last few years...

Great thread! I have no intention of hiking/climbing the PCT, but I'm learning a lot; it looks like it would be immeasurable fun for you guys. And, as Timmy said, it looks dangerous as fuck. I'm looking forward to the pics after the trek.

Turtle, you need to daddy up and tell her she can't go in June.

Go FUND ME A  SHERPA...

^haha. want to join us, Walstib?

>>>dangerous as fuck without a pack

no doubt!

never been to the Tablelands

looks like a purdy area...

yeah, I've never been either...

I remember going to the High Sierra Music Festival at Bear Valley July 4 05, there was still tons of snow all over the place. They even had to move the stage because of large snow banks. You could put your beer next to your camp in a snow bank. Even the small streams  still will be very swollen so passing some of them will be really hard. Plus the granite sand is still wet and slippery in the mornings.

We are getting 3 different storms back to back starting today with lots of snow in the mountains. With the amount of snow we are having in the Sierra's this year most of the passes will not even be open.  

>>>most of the passes will not even be open.

true, they won't be able to cross the range in Yosemite, but they can drive around the bottom of the range (through Bakersfield), then up 395 to Whitney portal (actually takes about the same time or less from the Bay Area since it's all 4 lane hwy).

on the subject of June Sierra trekking... it's done by pretty much every PCT through hiker who starts at the Mexican border in Spring.  They arrive in the Sierra in June and have no choice other than to brave the snow fields, otherwise they don't have enough time to get through the Cascades before Winter sets in. 

I knew a couple guys who attempted it in the early 80's (after this same type of Winter) and their trip was thwarted by the extreme June snow/ice in the Southern Sierra... remarkably, they made it like 50 miles using snow shoes, but finally gave up (and I think Forester Pass might have been where they haired out and bailed).

Thanks Hall, I am really enjoying your backcountry knowledge of the Sierras. 

John Mayer Tale/PCP is one possible spinoff.

Hall is the zones biggest stud.

I heard he climbed the Bobby Eagleblood route of Big Man Ice Mountain in record time. 

haha...no... I bow down to the dude up there (on this thread) who hiked the whole PCT...  and jonnyjon is a freakin' mountain goat...

When the Chuck Norris goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Hall.

Peak15 es mas macho...

We got our permits today!!  I'm a little excited. 

Circumvented Yosemite permit system by entering Mammoth Lakes at a less popular trailhead.  It's 11 miles to Thousand Island Lake to the PCT, then the JMT to Yosemite.  Whoohoo!

Sweet jam juice.  I was in mammoth the last few days.  All time pow turns yesterday, even in the sierra cement.  Was in line when chair 22 popped and had awesome pow on Lincoln mountain.  Also lapped chair 4 for low key powder.

eastern sierras especially mammoth is breaking records.  Snowiest January of all time and 27 inches until snowiest month EVER.  That record is 209 inches.

storm this weekend is supposed to be a monster with extremely low snow levels.  Chains required already today in lone pine.  Snowing as far south as olancha and lone pine.  Expect chain restrictions all theway south to MoJave this weekend.

Drought? Lol, let it snow!

Mammoth, one of my most favorite places in California.

hey so are those crazy kids still planning to attempt a June/July JMT trek?  

How All this Snow May Affect Your Hike

Published by Ray Rippel on January 30, 2017

The Sierra Nevada is getting a bunch of snow this winter, and that is mostly a good thing...  ... If the snow keeps falling, or even if what we have persists well into spring, here are some obvious and not-so-obvious ways it may affect your hike.

More Snow. The JMT spends a lot of time in the high country and goes over eight major passes. Unless things change pretty drastically in the next couple of months, you are going to see a lot of snow in June on the majority of the trail, and quite a bit of snow in July. Snow is hard to walk in, is a little trickier to camp in, and makes navigation many times more challenging. Although I would never suggest it, if you put 100 hikers at Happy Isles on a low snow year, and didn’t give them a map, compass, or guidebook, probably 98 would make it to the summit of Mount Whitney. If you put those same 100 on the trail this June, I doubt any would make it. Navigating in the snow is hard because you can’t see the trail. Unless you have really advanced navigation skills, walking this trail in the snow can be dangerous. Remember also, that all this navigation takes time — your three-week trip could easily take four or more.

More Water. The most obvious is that there will be more water. That can be an advantage, because the more water you have along the trail the less you have to carry. If you read the article at the link in the first paragraph, above, you’ll find a list of dry stretches you might expect during a low-snow year. Most of these will likely not be a problem in 2017. The most convenient source you will be able to depend upon is Sunrise Creek — a source that may come into play on your very first day out of Happy Isles.

More water means more stream crossings, which can be dangerous. Especially if you are going to hike before August, I would seriously consider getting some training on stream crossings. Even if the crossings are more benign, they are going to be more frequent. In past trips I have never carried separate footwear for stream crossings; I’ve only had to take off my boots once, at Evolution Creek, and it didn’t make much sense to carry separate shoes for one crossing. (By the way, the hiker in the video link does not use the proper stream-crossing technique; you should undue your hip and sternum belts.) If you are intending to hike in July, some footwear for crossing streams may be a good idea. If you are going to try in August, try to get some reports from the trail before deciding.

More Mosquitoes. Not only more mosquitoes, but mosquitoes later in the year. In the past few years, by mid-July, you could walk most of the day without the risk of exsanguination. Not true this year! Make sure the insect repellent and head nets are on your packing list. Also, pick your nightly campsites a little more carefully; a spot away from the water with a bit of a breeze could really help.

http://jmtbook.com/category/blog/

right on... though if they haven't already done it, they will have a tough time getting a permit at this point unless they go in mid Sept...

speaking of permits, good to hear y'all got yours, Jamjuice!  

I was also able to get a permit (changed my plan to North Lake>Piute Pass>Italy Pass>climb mt Julius Caesar>exit Pine Creek), but I'm not going until mid-Sept... fuck da bugs!

your daughter sounds like a pretty awesome young lady  turtle.  you must be proud of her. 

A dude, that works for me was granted, the pct/jmt permit and is now getting official warning letters about the snow pack!

snow returns to mammoth this week!

let it snow!

in other news mayor Garceti of LA declared state of emergency for Owens valley due to projected run off.

this state has no water retention capabilities for these bigger wet years!

let Owens lake fill!

ugh, politicians.

Awesome thread.

Can we adopt Hall as an honorary Colorado Zoner?

lol, well I did live in Boulder for about 5 years (age 9- 14)... definitely formative (big mountain-wise), but I don't miss the extreme weather.

here's a good tip for T-daughter from a PCT FB site:

Have GPS coordinates for the whole Sierra bits, cuz there won't be any trail signs or markers [due to snow]. Remember that there's not much, if any, cell phone coverage in the High Sierra - so don't rely on cell phone maps. Get paper maps and a satellite GPS system like an InReach which also lets you send out messages via satellite. Take solar battery charger!

https://www.facebook.com/PCTAFan

Turtle, is your daughter's hike still happening?

Jamjuice and Peak hiked a segment recently and the pictures (on Facebook) were of amazing terrain and scenery. Wow!

Lots of people were bailing this year Turtle.  Good on them for taking a alternate trip.  We got temporarily lost in the snow twice.  Hopefully they will go next year.

We did ~74 miles from Mammoth Lakes to Yosemite Valley with side trips to Clouds Rest and Half Dome.

Out of the 9 of us that started, we picked up 3 folks at Tuolumne Meadows (where we resupplied.  It was closed, we camped anyway and saw a bear and her 2 cubs) so 12 at one point, but only 8 finished (lots of bum knees and one stress fracture).  One finisher was my 15 yo niece who runs track, her trail name was 'Giselle', but later became 'Terminator'.  She was fearless.  Lots of sketchy spots, snow and crampons, deep and not-so-deep water crossings.  We left with cuts, bruises, bug bites and sore body parts.  But so amazed to be immersed in all that nature.  The beauty is jaw dropping and humbling.  High alpine lakes (the swimming was chilly), snowy mountain passes, creeks with all the water you could drink, glacier streams, wild-flower meadows, dusty trails and magic everywhere you looked.  Sharing this all with friends and family was the absolute best.  We are already planning the next section for 2018.

Yeah, what she said.

That sounds like a lot of fun, jamjuice!  It is something on the bucket list. 

That's awesome, Jamjuice and Peakers, well done!

I found a video series of the PCT shot by a through hiker who hit the Southern Sierra in mid June... here are a couple that give a pretty good representation of what it was like:

snow hiking footage starts at around the 5 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgqlUwS7V9Y

Mt Whitney side trip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uASG0J7yIEY

A few random pics: