Is it OK to troll Republicans?

> Is it OK to troll Republicans?

Sure, but why bother? Making art or dancing or baking bread or gardening or doing anything that affirms life would be much better choices.

Trolls are losers.

 

Kingdom of Fear - My dad gets a shout-out on page 6 of that book.   

Noodler with the slam dunk again.

bry with another air ball

  

     Ras, serious question...what do you suppose HST would have written about last night's Orwellian display?

 

     

 

     

If it was Orwellian we would have been forced to watch it.

I passed. Did you?

<<Harry S Truman address in St. Paul at the Municipal Auditorium.
October 13, 1948

Mr. Mayor, and fellow Democrats of Minnesota: 

Tonight, I pay tribute to the liberal spirit of the people of Minnesota--in the cities, on the farms, in the forests, and in the iron country of this great State. 

In this center of practical liberalism, I am proud to salute a fighting liberal--the next Senator from Minnesota, Mayor Humphrey of Minneapolis. I am also glad to greet the next Governor of Minnesota, Charles Halsted. 

Through them, I salute the liberal and progressive forces of this whole region--the forces which are once again on the march against special privilege. 

Before I say anything else, I want to take this opportunity to recognize the splendid record which was established by labor and management in Minnesota throughout the war years, and nobody knows any more about that than I do, for I made an investigation of it. 

Through those long dark months of war never once was a blast furnace kept a single minute, because of lack of ore. men who mined the ore and those who manned the trains and the ore boats worked day and night, Sundays and holidays, and there was no work stoppage. 

This was also true of the thousands of loyal men and women who labored in your mills and on your farms, and in your foundries and in your forests. 

On behalf of the Nation, I congratulate the working people of Minnesota on their splendid wartime performance. 

In view of that record, it is all the more strange to me that your senior Senator showed such fanatic zeal in helping to push the shameful Taft-Hartley law through the Congress. 

I'm afraid the same thing happened to Joe Ball that happens to most Republicans with a streak of liberalism when they get down to Washington. That's what I call the "Potomac fever." 

The Republican Party either corrupts its liberals or it expels them. It drove out Theodore Roosevelt in 1912. It drove out fighting Bob LaFollette of Wisconsin in 1924. 

It was the Democratic Party of Franklin Roosevelt, not the Republican Party, that held out the hand of welcome to Floyd B. Olson, and to that hero of progressive idealism--George Norris of Nebraska. 

And those liberals who have not been driven out of the Republican Party have been changed, like Joe Ball, from fighters on the people's side to champions of reaction. 

True liberalism is more than a matter of words. It demands more than sound effects. It cannot hide behind the catch phrases of the Republican candidate for President-catch phrases like "unity" and "efficiency." Unity for what cause? Efficiency for what Purpose, I wonder ? 

The American people, in this critical year, are entitled to a full and open discussion of the issues. They are not getting it from the Republican candidate for President. 

It is no service to the country to refuse, in the name of unity, to discuss the issues. It is no service to democracy to conceal the difference between the major parties. 

Unity in a democracy cannot be produced by mealymouthed political speeches. 

Unity on great issues comes only when the voice of the people has been heard so clearly, so strongly, so unmistakably, that no one--not even the second guessers--can doubt what the people mean. 

Thomas Jefferson did not seek unity by concealing the real issues between himself and Alexander Hamilton. He made the issues clear, so that the people could reach a decision. And their decision determined that democracy rather than autocracy should prevail in this great country of ours. 

Andrew Jackson did not seek unity with the moneymakers in Philadelphia. He made the issues so clear that the people decided to place the control of the money in the Government of the United States, and not in a few private banks. 

Abraham Lincoln did not seek unity with Stephen A. Douglas. He made it clear that this Nation could not continue to exist half slave and half free. 

Franklin D. Roosevelt, in 1933, did not seek unity with the economic royalists. He proposed the New Deal. 

And today, I do not seek unity by concealing the issues between me and the special privilege groups that control the Republican Party. 

I never will seek that sort of unity. 

Real unity is behind basic principles and concrete programs. Real unity cannot be achieved without a definition of the issues, and a decision by the American people. 

Our foreign policy is an example of this. 

I had hoped that foreign policy would not become an issue in this campaign. To that end, I have refrained from taking partisan credit in campaign speeches for the policies which were organized by a Democratic administration, and which others are now claiming credit for so loudly today. 

But I serve notice here and now that I shall feel at liberty to correct distortions and keep the record straight. 

And when I do that, I shall be glad to give full credit for the significant contributions which have been made by some farsighted Republicans. 

We have a large measure of unity in foreign policy now. But it was not always that way. We achieved this degree of unity, only after world-shaking events had made it clear that the vast majority of the people of the United States would no longer tolerate isolationism. 

Now, we had no unity in foreign policy in the first national election after World War I. The Democratic candidate for President in that year stood clearly for the League of Nations, and for Woodrow Wilson's idea of international cooperation. 

But the Republican candidate, although he misled the people into believing that he stood for unity, was actually opposed to the League of Nations. 

So, when the election was over, the people found themselves with a Republican administration and a Republican Congress that were completely unified--but unified in favor of the wrong policies. 

And so the world started down the road to World War II. 

We did not have unity in foreign policy in 1940. Even then, with half the world in flames, the Republican leaders were mainly isolationists. They were against aid to the democracies, and they called Roosevelt a warmonger. 

The man who is now the Republican candidate for President said that the idea of producing 50,000 airplanes a year was fantastic. And we got to 'produce 100,000. a 

Even in 1944, in the midst of a we did not have unity in matters relating to, foreign policy. During the election campaign in that year, the Republican candidate, who is now running once more, charged again and again that it was the administration's arbitrary desire to keep men in the Army after the war was over. You all remember that. 

He had so little foresight about postwar problems that he felt we could completely demobilize our military strength the minute that hostilities ended. 

Now, as a matter of hindsight, he says, "me, too" about building up our Armed Forces. 

The unity we have achieved in foreign policy required leadership. It was achieved by men--Republicans as well as Democrats-who were willing to fight for principles before these principles became obvious to everyone. 

It was not achieved by the people who copied the answers down neatly after the teacher had written them on the blackboard. 

Here again, as in so many other cases, the American people should consider the risk of entrusting their destiny to recent converts who now come along and say, "Me, too, but I can do it better." 

In the meantime, there are other issues in this campaign--big issues. All those issues cannot be hidden or brushed away by pretending they don't exist. 

The issue in this election is not unity. It is not efficiency. 

Efficiency alone is not enough in government. Maybe the Wall Street Republicans are efficient. We remember that there never was such a gang of efficiency engineers in Washington, as there was under Herbert Hoover. We remember Mr. Hoover self was a great efficiency expert. 

We remember how he selected one of the richest men in America to be his Secretary of the Treasury. But efficiency wasn't enough 20 years ago, and efficiency isn't enough today. 

There must be life and hope in government. We must achieve and pioneer in the
great ,at frontier of human rights and social justice. 

Hitler learned that efficiency without justice is a vain thing. 

Democracy does not work that way. Democracy is a matter of faith--a faith in the soul of man--a faith in human rights. That is the kind of faith that moves mountains--that's the kind of faith that hurled the Iron Range at the Axis and shook the world at Hiroshima. 

Faith is much more than efficiency. Faith gives value to all things. Without faith, the people perish. 

Today the forces of liberalism face a crisis. The people of the United States must make a choice between two ways of living--a decision, which will affect us the rest of our lives and our children and our grandchildren after us. 

On the other side, there is the Wall Street way of life and politics. Trust the leader! Let big business take care of prices and profits! Measure all things by money! That is the philosophy of the masters of the Republican Party. 

Well, I have been studying the Republican Party for over 12 years at close hand in the Capital of the United States. And by this time, I have discovered where the Republicans stand on most of the major issues. 

Since they won't tell you themselves, I am going to tell you. 

They approve of the American farmer-but they are willing to help him go broke. 

They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. 

They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. 

They favor a minimum wage--the smaller the minimum the better. 

They indorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. 

They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. 

They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. 

They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. 

They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations. 

They consider electric power a great blessing-but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. 

They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. 

They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. 

They think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. 

And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. 

Now, my friends, that is the Wall Street Republican way of life. But there is another way--there is another way--the Democratic way, the way of the Democratic Party. 

Of course, the Democratic Party is not perfect. Nobody ever said it was. But the Democratic Party believes in the people. It believes in freedom and progress, and it is fighting for its beliefs right now. 

In the Democratic Party, you won't find the kind of unity where everybody thinks what the boss tells him to think, and nothing else. 

But you will find an overriding purpose to work for the good of mankind. And you will find a program--a concrete, realistic, and practical program that is worth believing in and fighting for. 

Now, I call on all liberals and progressives to stand up and be counted for democracy in this great battle. I call on the old Farmer-Labor Party, the old Wisconsin Progressives, the Non-Partisan Leaguers, and the New Dealers to stand up and be counted in this fight. 

This is one fight you must get in, and get in with every ounce of strength you have. After November 2d, it will be too late. It will do no good to change your mind on November 3d. The decision is right here and flow. 

Against us we have the best propaganda campaign that money can buy. 

But we are bound to win--and we are going to win, because we are right! I am here to tell you that in this fight, the people are with us. 

With a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, you will have the right kind of unity in this country. 

We will be unified once more on the great program of social advance, which the Democratic Party pioneered in 1933. 

We will be unified in support of farm cooperatives, rural electrification, and soil conservation. 

We will be unified behind a housing program. 

We will be unified on the question of the rights of labor and collective bargaining. 

We will be unified for the expansion of social security, the improvement of our educational system, and the expansion of medical aid. 

Moreover, we will be unified in our efforts to preserve our prosperity and to spread its benefits equally to all groups in the Nation. 

Now, my friends, with such unity as this, we can secure the blessings of freedom for ourselves and our children. 

With such unity as this, we can fulfill our God-given responsibility in leading the world to a lasting peace.

Note: The President spoke at 9:33 p.m. at the Municipal Auditorium in St. Paul. His opening words "Mr. Mayor" referred to Edward K. Delaney, Mayor of St. Paul. Later he referred to Mayor Hubert H. Humphrey of Minneapolis, Democratic candidate for Senator, Democratic candidate for Governor Charles L. Halstead, Senator Joseph H. Ball, and former Governor Floyd B. Olson, all of Minnesota; former Senator Robert M. LaFollette of Wisconsin; and former

https://web.archive.org/web/20180820043807/https://www.presidency.ucsb.e...

 

     I imagine he'd have a field day with the current absurdities, of course today's Rolling Stone would never allow such truth to be told, but I'm sure he'd find an appropriate platform.

 

     

 

"I think if I had it to do again, I would have brought in the military immediately"

 

Trump.

 

Fuck you, you fascist cheerleader. 

 

I only troll GQP members

 

Wondering what exactly was fascist about last night's Town Hall? Did it resemble any of those fucked up Trump rallies, where thousands of people were screaming fascist slogans? Was Biden using populist rhetoric to whip the crowd into a hate-filled frenzy?

It's OK to get exasperated and frustrated, but I believe intentionally trolling "republicans" will only make matters worse as Trump supporters are effectively blind to reality and are members of a cult of disinformation.  Trolling will only serve to entrench their position further vs. posing questions that may prompt serious reconsideration of the holes and inconsistencies that abound in the world of Trump's lies and deception, but this gets us back to exasperation and frustration; akin to arguing with someone who is either drunk or a fool.

Imagine trolling the Nazis in Berlin in early May 1945 ... some might look around at the destruction and opt to save their own skin, but many would have immediately killed anyone that tried to "leave the family".  "Downfall" is a great movie that details the last couple days of hitler's life & is very telling about cult mentality and how far people are willing to go (to the bitter end) in order to sustain a worldview they've adopted.

Having said all that:

"Namaste"

 

 

So I guess what you're saying is that we need to eradicate the GOP with swift military action?   I'm good with that......

Gotta try to transcend the partisan warfare... step out of our respective echo chambers.  Both parties are corrupt AF; I sympathize much more with Democrat principles but to say Republicans are the Devil and Democrats are clearly the solution just plays into and reinforces our partisan bubbles we've decidedly organized into.

>>eradicate the GOP with swift military action?

Yikes.  

The dems play soft and the gop plays hard.  There is no such thing as 'try to transcend the partisan warfare'.  Immature notion.   I read, I listen, I study....

One of the worst players in this game is the 'fuck everyone' youth.  It's easy to see who's on the right path, though completely not perfect.  Uninformed opinions will continually fuck it all up.  That's were we are at.  

My comment was a play on FOM post.   We wiped out the Nazi's.... Should we stand by now and play cute with those that want to eradicate the progress we've made? 

Honestly man...fuck this 'both sides are bad' bullshit. There is clearly a side that, if we let them, would take away rights from minorities, women..etc.  But yeah keep coughing out that nonsense.  

 

<< step out of our respective echo chambers.

Is there a specific drug you can administer for this, because just trying to ignore realities is hardly an option for me.

<< eradicate the GOP with swift military action?

Be careful cuz that's exactly what trump + co would prefer to do to us,, ex; Jan 6th  

If only you could educate the 30%'rs, but you can't,, so a civil war may be inevitable.

Ya say you want to revolution 

Somalia ?? Try n stay on topic bro

Got it. 

It's cool we bombed Somalia this week, right?

Also cool that our president is doubling down on the harm of cannabis and resisting any change to laws.

Children in cages is now Children in.... "facilities".

Pushing removal from every social media platform and the monitoring of SMS messages for misinformation.  Yikes.  Nothing dystopian about that.

Biden supporting the Nord Stream (spelling?) pipleline; a win for Putin.

Awesome.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/07/20/nso-israel-i...

I am staying on topic, Raz.

I bring those points up to emphasize that - on paper, policy wise - once you get through all the culture war virtue signaling-  the Republicans and the Democrats are more common than you may think or realize.

Yeah, they both worship corporations equally.

 

That makes them both part of the right wing.

Yes you are, my bad,, bty - Thank you Jay for having your say in a worthwhile discussion and not going all Jerry or Melvin on us.

The differences are far more important.

Y'know...voting, raising young'uns who don't remember "that kid with Polio from 2nd grade", etc.

>>Yeah, they both worship corporations equally.

Sup Bss.  I agree with you generally in most everything you have to share on here. 

The Capital dominates our politics.  I wish our politicians would wear their corporate sponsors on their suits as patches... sorta like Nascar.

 

For the record, I voted for Biden.   and I regret it.  (and no that's not a backhanded way of saying I would've voted for Trump)

Well, for the record I said years ago joe and kamala were the only two (out of like twenty) I would never vote for either of. I would have enthusiastically voted for just about any other candidate on the stage.

Trump far, far, worse than any of those choices. Obviously. On its face. But you already know this.

So I ate my words. Yeah, that hurt my personal ego/pride for a nanosecond or two. Or three.

 

If you regret your vote, it's because the "voting is corrupt stupid and doesn't matter" people have gotten to your head. 

And this attitude actually, measurably, benefits the Fascists.

 

Raz is correct. Evaluate the differences, not the similarities. Until Socialism, if ever, this is what we've got.

Work toward the future goal, but acknowledge and live in the current reality.

 

 

 More than on its face, Bss.

My comment was a play on FOM post.   We wiped out the Nazi's.... Should we stand by now and play cute with those that want to eradicate the progress we've made? <<<<

Unfortunately, you're kinda on to something here.

I suspect that even if the so-called "pee tapes" were to be distributed & Weisselberg were to flip and deliver all of the goods, it'd only peel off a small fraction of Trump's supporters.  The vast majority are so far gone they'll believe any spin to explain away reality.

Switching away from the nazis to the Civil War:  currently in the middle of re-reading (listening to this time) "Grant" (Chernow).  Up until the point in time when Grant was finally promoted by Lincoln as Lt. General (legislated by Congress), the revolving cast of Union military leaders never embraced a comprehensive strategy to go on the offensive to squash the rebellion in no uncertain terms.  Pelosi / Schumer = McClellan.   Biden appears to be in this camp, but holding out small hope that Garland is taking his time to get ducks in a row.   There is currently an insurrection taking place and it's happening under our very noses in real time.  Just because the coup wasn't successful on Jan 6, it doesn't mean things still aren't in motion or there isn't danger around the corner.  The problem is figuring out how to contend with sedition in the context of the first amendment.

 

 "There is currently an insurrection taking place and it's happening under our very noses in real time.  Just because the coup wasn't successful on Jan 6, it doesn't mean things still aren't in motion or there isn't danger around the corner.  The problem is figuring out how to contend with sedition in the context of the first amendment"

 

Agreed.

Impossible when 'we' think everyone is the bad guy.     

The GOP sucks, the left is pretty close to being just as bad, and will be as bad in no time if we don't criticize them when they fuck up. Pressure them to do better. It gets weird when moderates think that it's wrong to criticize team blue from within and flip their wigs just. like. the. right. The left centrists want progress - but a lot less than they give themselves credit for. Progressives are only progressive until the centrists get to them. The far left asks for too much knowing they wont get any of it most of the time anyhow. Good guys are rare and torn down before anyone gets a chance to benefit. Rinse repeat

>>If you regret your vote, it's because the "voting is corrupt stupid and doesn't matter" people have gotten to your head.

Can you elaborate?  Not sure I follow.  

Perhaps I would first need to better understand why you regret it?

..You were given a barely somewhat ok decent choice, a horrible choice, a choice that had no mathematical chance, or no choice at all...

 

those were all the choices available.

What would you have done differently?

>>Good guys are rare and torn down before anyone gets a chance to benefit. Rinse repeat

Only those who 100% agree with your Progressive/Socialist agenda are "good guys," right, and that makes everyone else bad guys and the enemy. That's how it reads.

 

((((      "not going all Jerry or Melvin on us."    ))))

 

made me laugh

I'm trying to stay away from these discussions, but I like a lot of what Jay is saying. Especially about the partisan warfare, which isn't good. 

BUT Biden/Harris was the ONLY choice this year, regret it or not. We had to call out the exterminator for the White House and it worked. Now we continue with our work. There's lots to do for sure. 

I'm thinking we ought to call these suppression efforts "Tiananmen Square Implementation Plans", suggesting people realize the similarities to what happened in a totalitarian country and the effects they share. Hopefully the people of America can be inspired by the courage shown in countries like China and Russia (Pussy Riot, Navalny) and other places and RISE UP! 

Maybe we should tote a replica of the "Goddess of Democracy" around the country to remind us all of what we have to lose and what some people were willing to do to have rights like we take for granted. My ACLU sticker that says "Vote like your rights depend on it" is more true than ever.

BK..your post reads like you've completely reworded what you quoted so you can be buttsore. Have a nice day  :)

I'm not buttsore, in the least. 

Instead of responding and clarifying you went for some silly personal crap. Hey, you do you.

Jay((Siobud)) impresses me with wisdom at a younger age. I mostly agree with his thoughts and the way he carries through those thoughts. 

 

He isca a younger one I admire.  We have jokers and clowns on the extreme left and jokers and clowns on the extreme right.

Extremists are the enemy. 

Jeet raho.

> ((((      "not going all Jerry or Melvin on us."    ))))

> made me laugh

Me too. Pretty sly.

Jay gets it. They are all owned by the same corporations. Dems don't really want reform. They like their paydays. And most are rich also. So the repub platform suits them fine. They are all playing rolls to make us believe we are in a democracy. When in reality, we live in a corporatocracy.  Sure the dems say they care about what we do, but their actions say differently.

Now of course I am not saying biden and chump are the same. chump is an egotistical wild man that has no foot in reality. biden is just status quo.

I regret that biden was my only choice, I do not regret voting chump out.

As I've said before, the two major parties are not two sides of the same coin.  It's worse, they are the same side of the coin.  We the civilians are on the other side of the coin and that coin ain't ever gonna flip.  But... I have flipped a coin that landed on its edge and remained on its edge. So miracles do happen.  
   "I believe in miracles
Where're you from? you sexy thing, sexy thing you
I believe in miracles
Since you came along, you sexy thing"

"You talkin' to me?" 

 

LOL

..just catching up on things here... been a travel week for me.  Spent the first portion of the week in Cuero, Texas and worked today in Goshen, Indiana.  Flying out home from Chicago tomorrow.  Looking forward to being home with my baby girl, I miss her.

Raz,

You say this in response to my "stepping out of our partisan bubbles" remark:

>>Is there a specific drug you can administer for this, because just trying to ignore realities is hardly an option for me.

No drugs are required and you don't have to ignore reality.  Ultimately, it comes down to the content you're consuming and engaging with.  Eliminating ANY cable news you may be consuming currently is a major step towards removing yourself from a partisan bubble.  CNN, MSNBC and Fox News have proven time and time again to be bad actors not operating in good faith.  They're 100% propaganda operations and controlled by the intelligence community.  It's a total sham that these legacy media platforms - who serve up constant outrage porn - moderate our presidential debates and have a monopoly on the "truth".  I grew up in a neoconservative household and, naturally, that had an impact on my trajectory in life and my perspective on these things.  With that said, I used to go to Drudgereport.com multiple times a day and get riled up on all the right wing culture war BS- I'd also find myself consuming a lot of other terrible media content such as Yahoo News.  I came to a point where I told my brother that I will never again keystroke those websites into my URL bar and I have held to my word to this day.  I look at it as something not dissimilar from my decision to quit drinking alcohol in February 2013.  Consuming bad media is like eating junk food- junk food for your mind.  It can and will catch up to you in ways you may not be conscious of at the moment.  I've also just turned my back on NPR- many will not agree with my opinion but I've gotten to a point where it's unlistenable to me anymore and that's too bad. 

With that said, I hate to come off like I'm self righteous and proselytizing- my political views are fluid- they're on a spectrum and they change accordingly as new information is presented to me.

Is anyone here familiar with Krystal and Saggar formerly of The Hill's Rising show?  They now have their own podcast which debuted as the number 1 political podcast in America.  Krystal is center-left while Saggar is center-right and the two of them engage in good faith discussions on current events from a populist perspective.  I'm really enjoying their new show Breaking Points and encourage anyone who is unfamiliar with it to check it out!  They upload new shows every Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.

I also subscribe to Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and Aaron Mate's substack accounts- they provide me with a steady stream of great journalism for $15 a month in total.  I'm also digging Jimmy Dore's podcast A LOT.  It's so refreshing hearing a comedian just absolutely let it rip from the hip with no fucks given.  He pushed the whole "Force the Vote" for Medicare For All in December and many "progressives" on the left attacked him for it and the vote never happened.

>>>Perhaps I would first need to better understand why you regret it?

I say I regret my vote because I live in a state where the Democratic candidate can count on winning by 20-25 points every presidential election.  This was actually my first time voting for a Democrat for president.  I wonder if I should've cast a protest vote for the Libertarian candidate in 2020, Jorgenson or whatever her name is.  I kinda despise a lot of the Libertarian stuff; my thoughts on a "protest" vote speak more towards how pathetic our system and options are than any love I have for Libertarian ideas.  

Hey Jazz.

Taiibi and greenwald.

that fits.

that also explains why you think Fox is the same as other tv networks.

Substacks sound delicious! Do they deliver?

Taiibi and Greenwald are two of the remaining real journalists working in the industry.  Who else is actually taking on power centers?  I thought that was what the left was about?  Greenwald's new Securing Democracy is absolutely fascinating; his reporting just directly led to Lula being freed from prison and the fall of Segio Moro.  THAT is what real journalism is about IMO.  He also won the Pulitzer prize for the Snowden reporting.  Him and Taiibi have largely been ostracized by the neoliberal establishment for seeing the Russia Gate scam for what it was; a cooked up plot by our intelligence community which was broadcast relentlessly through liberal media outlets.  Rachel Maddow will look directly into the camera and say "I just heard ______ from my contact in the CIA"  WTF.  Anyone with half a brain knows that you don't believe anything you're told by intelligence officials.  They're professionals in disinformation and, I dunno about you guys, but I believe in truly adversial journalism.  Taiibi and Greenwald are not in this business to make friends and stroke any corporate egos.

 I'm trying to engage thoughtfully with you clowns who probably get all your news from The Atlantic, MSNBC, CNN and Vox.  Often times, I'm unsure why I bother trying to articulate myself but then I remember the handful of you remaining on here who do engage me on my points.

America has a class problem and the elites in power want us to bicker with one another over sexuality, gender and race; dividing us so we can never make any meaningful progress.

For some of you- certainly not everyone- your brians have atrophied and your critical thinking and reasoning skills are so compromised from a lifetime of consuming propaganda.  I understand that having this told to you can be jarring and irritating, I really do.  Again, I implore you to step outside your bubbles rather than attacking and avoiding engaging in any valid points I'm presenting thoughtfully.

Holy cow, I've never thought of you as arrogant or ignorant, but that was both. 

>> I believe in truly adversial journalism <<

I believe in reporters actually reporting facts. Yes, I know sometimes they are reporting 'facts' fed to them with an agenda. I look at a wide spectrum of news sources and then derive my own opinion. Very revealing to hear that you, by default, think of your peers here as 'clowns' and 'atrophied' yet claim you are being valid and thoughtful. LOL go suck an egg, Jay. 

>America has a class problem and the elites in power want us to bicker with one another over sexuality, gender and race; dividing us so we can never make any meaningful progress.<

pretty much that.

 

however, virtue signaling/culture war type rhetoric...i don't know where those terms come from. podcasts aren't necessarily news either.

>>>I say I regret my vote because I live in a state where the Democratic candidate can count on winning by 20-25 points every presidential election.  This was actually my first time voting for a Democrat for president.  I wonder if I should've cast a protest vote for the Libertarian candidate in 2020, Jorgenson or whatever her name is.  I kinda despise a lot of the Libertarian stuff; my thoughts on a "protest" vote speak more towards how pathetic our system and options are than any love I have for Libertarian ideas<<
 

I totally get it, In the same vein of thought I voted for a libertarian candidate once a long time ago too. What was his name?

Ah, fuck it. He probably doesn't remember mine either. 

So, that was dumb.

The thing is- I soon realized that even voting in a state that was likely to overwhelmingly lean toward the "good" guy, this is a lazy mindset that takes for granted others would simply do my heavy lifting while I fucked off and didn't put any energy forth and avoided making a critical decision. 
 

You made the right decision

Good luck with the recovering republican thing.
Dude I would slow WAY down on the talk radio stuff.

Ned,

When we're trying to have a discussion as adults and you respond with something like "mmm substacks sounds delicious!!", well, yes, you do come off as a clown.

>>.Good luck with the recovering republican thing.

Thanks man.  To this day, it's really hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion with my parents about anything current events or politics.  I read some pure fucking shit books growing up in my teenage years and had to try hard to course correct.

>>> this is a lazy mindset that takes for granted others would simply do my heavy lifting while I fucked off and didn't put any energy forth and avoided making a critical decision. 

I guess I never really thought of it that way.  I've always subscribed to that "Oh you're voting for the lesser of two evils?  You vote for evil?" type mindset.  I appreciate your perspective on that one.

Lighten up, Francis. This is still The Zone, and not a 400 level PoliSci class. You've made it clear you believe you have a superior grasp of the world than most. Good luck with that, and I hope you have remained healthy!

My opinion broker is more right than your opinion broker! Why? Because I agree with my guy!

 

 >I've always subscribed to that. "Oh you're voting for the lesser of two evils?  You vote for evil?" type mindset. <

 

A half a loaves beats no loaf.

 

Progress is slow, and uneven. 

Regression is fast, like an avalanche. 

 

 

> the elites in power want us to bicker with one another over sexuality, gender and race; dividing us so we can never make any meaningful progress<

 

Pretty easy for a straight, white guy to dismiss these issues as distractions.  You're a straight, white guy, right?

 

You do realize that race, gender, sexual identity are part of the class issue, right? 

 

>>> Lighten up, Francis.

You're right.  I should not have called you a clown- I can get fired up and wear my passions on my sleeve.  I stand by the points I made but want to acknowledge that I shouldn't be insulting anyone here.

Dems stand for progressivism, moving forward, ex;  taxing the uber rich to help pay for badly needed  infrastructure,, the repubs are staunchly a'gin it. Leave our rich alone. Thats just the way it is, been that way my entire life,, how they get voted in, in poor red states just amazes me. Must be a lot of rich folk or dumbfucks in them poor red states.

Dems = Progress

repubs = Regress or keep the status quo

Reminder ->

Sen. Mitch McConnell Insists: One And Done For Obama

Boehner says his party's plan for the president's agenda is to 'kill it, stop it, slow it down."

And as far as the current white house - 

Perhaps to remind people that, despite McConnell being an elected official ostensibly sent to D.C. to work on behalf of the Americans who pay his salary, he doesn’t give a fuck about anything but his own interests, McConnell on Wednesday told reporters that while he could spend his time helping to end the pandemic, or aiding the economic recovery, or stopping mass shootings, he’s actually got something else in mind: blocking Joe Biden’s entire agenda. “One hundred percent of my focus is standing up to this administration,” the Kentucky Republican said at a press conference in his state in response to questions about fighting among House Republicans. “

If his focus doesn't bother you,, shame on you.

Even with a few speed bumps, this is still the best political discussion here in a while,, good job folks.

How did it get to the point that a different political opinion makes someone stupid or ignorant or a shill for some media outlet or another? That attitude does not lend itself to open debate, and it definitely stifles progress.

It seems like the distinctions between fact, opinion and belief have become muddied. In reality, though, they aren't. People on all sides of the spectrum believe that their biased news/opinion source is fact. So much opinion is taken as gospel, and revered as such. It's just words.

So many people, whether they are informed by Fox, OAN, CNN, MSNBC, Jacobin, VOX, etc can mimic the words and ideas of their favorite talking heads. However, they can't describe the balance of power set forth in the Constitution. They don't understand the precursors to the Bill of Rights. They don't know and they don't care.

I'm not saying that anyone here, right now, is in that boat, but a few have been. The problem is that the attitude becomes the norm, and it becomes a nasty rabbit-hole.

I have discovered I have become more open minded and less judgemental simply by reading multiple sources without watching the talking heads.

 

A different perspective. 

 

>Oh you're voting for the lesser of two evils?  You vote for evil?" type mindset<

 

I have found that most with that attitude are extremely self-righteous. Your 10:45 am post certainly places you in that group.

 

god and guns.

dems will lose both every time.
 

 

 

President Joe Biden is facing backlash for repeating his administration’s admonition that immigrants and asylum seekers should not attempt to enter the U.S. 

 

“They should not come unless they want to be our underpaid servants” Biden said at a CNN town-hall-style meeting Thursday, echoing what Vice President Kamala Harris told migrants during a trip to Guatemala last month. 

^ source?

Looks like I missed a decent political conversation here this week, and some other stuff too.

So, Jay, are you still vaccination hesistant? Or have the variants changed your mind?

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_60fb3fbae4b0d2a22d4b30ad

I'm stuck in bed with an ancient, ailing cat on top of me, so I've had plenty of time to finally read this thread.  

Thanks to all of you, particularly Jay, for sharing your views. 

Trump rally roots against US in Olympics:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1419092430809358338

>>So, Jay, are you still vaccination hesistant? Or have the variants changed your mind?

Yes I am.  I'd like to reassure you all that I carefully considered my decision in light of what happened to my body from the mold exposure in 2015 and '16.  I am yet to regain my health to what it was before that happened and it's something that alarms and disturbs me at multiple points each day.  It's a very heavy thing I live with that affects me daily.  I'd also like to emphasize that I'm not trying to influence anyone in their decisions nor am I striving to be an opinion leader on this matter; it's a personal decision I've made and while I'm generally pretty outspoken and loud with my opinions in life, this is something I've been keeping to myself and only sharing with those close to me in 3D.

We cool, Ned?  I'm not typically in the habit of insulting anyone or creating enemies on here.  I think anyone who's ever interacted with me in 3D would agree I can be intense in my communication, especially discussing something I'm animated about.

>>this is something I've been keeping to myself and only sharing with those close to me in 3D.

and with you folks- obviously.  Here on this semi-anonymous black screen.

F......A