The HOF is a joke

About what I expected.  We'll see if the special committee shows more forgiveness to Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa later this year.  A-Rod will be watching closely.  Good to see Jimmy Rollins get enough votes to stay on the ballot.

Absolutely FUCK every writer that did not vote for him. I wish I had the list.  Bowls full of greenies (Dexedrine) supplied by the teams for decades was not "performance inhancing"?   Really? HOF is now a fucking joke. Way to go.

Mark, you keep failing to see the reasons why Bonds keeps getting the door shut in his face.

Bonds isn't out because he cheated. As you so eloquently stated, there are many players in the HOF who have been caught or were known cheaters. Despite the particularly slimy reason why he cheated in the first place, that still would have been an easy rap for him to beat.

It's how he acted and what he exposed of himself AFTER he cheated that ruined him.

What doesn't seem to be talked about very much is that it isn't just a players' records & ability that they're judged on for the HOF. There are six criteria in the rules that voters must consider and abide by. Bonds is clearly eligible in two of them, but he fails completely & dramatically in two others (I'd say it's 51/49 in the other two).

Rule 5 of the BBWAA Rules for Election...

Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. 

Is it really that hard to understand that repeatedly demonstrating a complete lack of integrity & character is equally a part of the process as how many balls one hit over a wall?

The cheating hurt him, and the reason why he cheated demonstrated a clear absence of integrity & character, but he could have gotten past that. What killed him was the lying, the whining, the federal conviction, the allowing a friend to go to prison. Ironically, all of that was done in a desperate attempt to protect his image, but of course it all had the exact opposite effect.

Personally, I think they should have let him in, then he would have gone away completely. Because of his actions and the way he carried himself he's already an irrelevant afterthought in the game. If he was in the HOF everyone would just rush past his dusty bust on their way to see Hank Aaron's bust.

As it is, his name will keep coming up this time of year, and this same tired argument will get rehashed.

Which is too bad.

Because he ain't worth it.

Thanks for articulating why Bonds is not worthy of HOF ^

different sport, but can you do Aaron Rogers next?!

Jerry did not care about HOFs

nonsense lance.

This is your opinion why Barry Bonds doesn't belong in the HOF. Okay.

Now; square Roger Clemens having gotten stiffed while using the same logic...

see?

there is just no coherent argument there.

Plenty of shitty humans in the hall. Some of them shitty players, too.

David Ortiz; second best clutch hitter ever.

A baseball museum with no Barry Bonds?

Actually, literally, laughable.

"Jerry did not care about HOFs"

HOFs are all a joke. Baseball, Rock and Roll . . .

Lance, always appreciate your detailed and thoughtful observations on music, sports, and other topics, and I often agree with you.

But not about Barry Bonds, who I know you despise, because you have expressed that opinion many times here on the Zone.

You must have been at many games in which he played. I was. How anybody could not be impressed by his gifts as a baseball player, I can't fathom. We have been lucky, in our time, to witness some of the greatest players ever in the game, and Bonds is at the top of that list. Hs is the fucking Home Run King and that is a fact.

The Giants also released a statement on the matter that read: “A seven-time MVP, 14-time All-Star, 12-time Silver Slugger award winner and a winner of eight Gold Glove awards, Barry was a generational talent who amassed a .298 lifetime batting average and a Major League-record 762 home runs and 2,558 walks over his storied 22-year Major League career. His incredible talent and immediate impact when he signed with the Giants in 1993, sparked not only a baseball renaissance in San Francisco, but also helped pave the way for building Oracle Park (née Pacific Bell Park) in 2000. We remain hopeful that he will gain election into the National Baseball Hall of Fame through the next phase of the voting process.”

"Is it really that hard to understand that repeatedly demonstrating a complete lack of integrity & character is equally a part of the process as how many balls one hit over a wall?"

Yeah, it is that hard to understand. I don't get the connection between how great and exciting it was watching Bonds step up to the plate and knock the ball over the wall into the bay and his personal failings. Is he an asshole? I guess so, reportedly, but that has nothing to do with how he performed in the game.

Ty Cobb is in the Hall of Fame, and he does not have a reputation as having been the world's nicest man either.

If the Hall of Fame is intended to be a history museum then all the great players who shaped the game should be there including Joe Jackson and Pete Rose, the all-time MLB leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215), and outs (10,328). And Pete definitely came across as an asshole in every interview I ever saw.

So the MLB HOF is not a history museum, rather a white washed attraction with as much regard for the truths of the most beautiful game - baseball - as Disneyland has for real American history and unvarnished folk tales.

So, MLB, fuck your HOF roadside attraction, and shouldn't you be busy at further corporatizing and ruining the game?

Our national pastime.

Meh.  Fuck Barry Bonds, for the obvious reasons; and props to those writers who said so with their non-votes.

Barry was a dick to reporters. And others including teammates.

Big Popi was very popular. But I did not know that it was a popularity contest.

Big Popi could not hold Bonds' jock strap.

The writers are idiots.

Bonds was HOF in 1996 before the steroids. If that is in fact what he took. And was walked with the bases loaded. That is respect.

Again, all those players in the hall that did speed before games cheated more.

I wish I could laugh about it BSS. But I love the game too much.

Ty Cobb was hugely despicable human being.  But hell, he was white.

Piss off, writers.

Similar to Pete Rose it doesn't have as much to do with the actual cheating, but with the coverups, lawsuits, intimidation and bold face lying that took place. Bonds, Clemens and ARod were world class assholes who just couldn't bring themselves to have a modicum of humility. Chances are that if they displayed some basic self awareness, they'd be in.

Could be.

Ortiz was released by the Twins as a failure before steroids. All of a sudden he is monster....... (But he was very popular with fans and writers)

Bonds was HOF before.

Personality should not be a factor.  See Ty Cobb.

All of those PED cheaters should be banned forever. Complete joke of an argument in the first place. They knew the risks to their legacy's and careers but still chose to juice up for an unfair advantage over their competitors. Liars and cheaters that also tarnished the reputation of MLB. 

JR is the issue for you that PED's have ever been used, at all?

Or just that they were also used when it was against the rules?

If the date that the ink dried on the anabolic steroid control act of 1990 is the point from where one starts measuring time, assuming only "clean" achievements and records are allowed from players thereafter...

...Then this is to basically ignore the entire thirty or forty odd years of baseball records set (with legal, unfettered PED usage) that happened prior.

And yes Mark Bonds was definitely a HOF caliber player most all of his career, except in the very earliest very years when bobby bo was maybe the more dominant teammate.

The entire PED'S Crew will be in someday. Maybe in a small area relegated to a dark corner in the back of the building, but they'll be there,,, Rose too.

Hell they just recently started allowing the best players to ever play the game in,, Negro League stars.

The ball was juiced hahahahahhahahahahahaha

and why does MLB get a pass in turning their blind eye to steroid use because of all that money it was making them?

^^

*Asterisk Alcove*

>Hell they just recently started allowing the best players to ever play the game in,, Negro League stars.
 

good timing and good for them

doesn't change anything about Bond's failure as a team player and good sport.

Let's talk about Clemens and why he even got as many votes as he did when he dated a 15 year who then was tortured by the experienced and killed herself.   

"Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

That guy has zero integrity and character. 

 Pete Rose did less to ruin baseball than Bonds did.  

I do think it's grand that baseball passions and opinions continue to run so strong, even among grown adults.

Eminem, Beck, A Tribe Called Quest, Dolly Parton Nominated for Rock Hall of Fame 2022

https://pitchfork.com/news/eminem-beck-a-tribe-called-quest-dolly-parton-nominated-for-rock-hall-of-fame-2022/

For many of us who grew up in the U. S.,  Baseball (or more likely, the similar Kickball) was our first organized team sport as children,  before Basketball, Football, or Soccer.   The way Soccer is to the rest of the world, Baseball is here.  Baseball's  was the first sports Hall Of Fame and is the most renowned.  It's ultimately a historical museum, and as a part of the game's history the guy's who got banned for gambling or steroids in the midst of Hall Of Fame careers are part of that discussion.  

https://www.mlb.com/video/clemens-throws-bat-c20053773

 integrity, sportsmanship, character

I'm going to chime in as a very casual baseball fan. None of them "ruined" baseball with their PEDs, attitudes, egos, or off-field exploits. The sport transcends them and is doing just fine. Most of the general public doesn't remember all that bad shit, and if they do, they don't really give a fuck. I think that most people simply want to see the best in the game voted into the HOF.