Russian Invasion of Ukraine

>> (looking at you oligarchs and personal security detail).

IS THIS A CALL OUT THREAD?

I guess some people just can't forgive Zippy.

The West Sucks

Death still raining down on civilians and all we can do is take away their money and toys.

How many deaths will it take till we know that too many people have died ?

Hey Ras...are you "anti-war"?

What's your suggestion, Ras?

More weapons shipped in?

Direct involvement?

We've done quite a bit more than take away their money and toys. There's a reason why Russia is getting pushed back, and it's because the West is hooking Ukraine up with some serious weaponry. Ukraine is now offensively bombing assets inside Russia. I still believe that Ukraine has all those Polish MiGs, and they are putting them to good use.

What more should we do? The "no fly zone" is a passe talking point. Most rockets were coming from the ground in Russia. Should we send in troops? That will cause 100x more deaths.

It's "the greatest good for the greatest number." The course that we're on is messy, but it's working. Putin invaded Ukraine and his military leaders are fucking animals. People are going to die horrible deaths. I tend to believe that our strategy is actually minimizing deaths, and leaving a way for this war to end

What else should 'the west' - NATO do without Putin retaliating and attacking NATO countries and using Nukes?
 

yes, Putin is committing atrocities, war crimes  genocide in Ukraine. So, what's your plan to stop him? 

 

Putin Sucks. 

I don't think Putin is sane. If pushed, he might push the button.

Patton ( who made a name for himself in ww1)  was sooooooooooo right. He knew the evils of Stalin and hated the fuckin Russians more than the Nazis,,, and he knew what needed to be done about it.

BTW today in 1917 the US entered WW1

There are rumors that Putin is being treated for cancer and has 'roid rage.  If you Google it you will find many articles but many seem like tabloids or propaganda.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10675557/Putin-followed-thyroid...

If he thinks his days are numbered, nothing is a deterrent to him and he might more easily choose the nuclear option

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxAIE9TbGyk

No suggestions, Ras?  

What course of action do you think NATO/USA/EU could agree on?

Maybe we should invade Russia. That seems to work out well.

And in other war news 1000 Ukrainian soldiers surrender in Mariupol.

 That was the' go fuck yourself Russian ship', ship

< agree on

At the minimum, a No Fly Zoner Zone

^as stated in another thread, this would require NATO to attack positions in Russia...Anti-aircraft and radar.

Additionally, NATO, the US and the EU have already agreed, there will not be a No Fly Zone implemented. 

THe vast majority of the rockets are coming from the ground in Russia. The no fly zone is really no more than symbolic, a powerful symbol that would surely start WWIII.

I remember seeing that it was destroyed several weeks ago, now we find out it wasn't, and 2 sides to the how it got damaged currently....    trustworthy media?  I'd say no....

>>>Ukraine says it hit the ship with missiles, while the Russians simply acknowledged that the crew had to abandon ship after a fire and explosion.    But even assuming the fire and explosion was some sort of internal accident, and not a Ukrainian attack, that would mean the Russian warship literally did go fuck itself.  <<<
 

so either Ukraine did actually blow it up

or at very least the crew of the fleet's flagship is incompetent enough they blew it up themselves

THe Russians are coming off as highly incompetent. They'll probably nuke themselves.

What if:

 The Russian generals are sucking on purpose in an attempt to make putin look bad at home and forcing his removal?

< involve hitting positions in russia

Like the oil depot Ukraine already blew up a couple weeks ago ? I'm all for smashing an aggressor at home.

We report on a miles long column of russian hardware heading west, and do nothing about it when it should be targeted and destroyed as soon as it crosses inside Ukraine territory.  Before would be better.

The targeting of the civilian population changes all nato eu or usa protocols. Putin needs to be stopped by all means necessary. 

He's already threatened us,,, fuck him.

Russia attacks Ukraine as Putin warns countries who interfere will face ‘consequences you have never seen’ | PBS NewsHour
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/russia-launches-attacks-ukraine-as-pu...

Another fucking thing I can't stand hearing is 'another round of sanctions'. All plugs should have been pulled on this fucker weeks ago. The entire world knew for years what a tyrant putin was,,, the only thing now being exposed is what worthless pussies the west became.

< already ageeed,, no no-fly zone

Hence - The West Sucks

>Like the oil depot Ukraine already blew up a couple weeks ago ? 

Ukraine is not NATO, the EU, or the US. Ukraine is currently at war with Russia.  You understand the difference, eh?

Ras, just to be clear, you know you're advocating for WWIII.

You know the russians have bussed tens of thousands out of Ukraine at gun point and set them up in temporary holding camps where they have been stripped of all identification papers and are going thru more arduous 'processing'.

Sounds an awful lot like you're advocating for further genocide lumber,, not noticing ww3 has already started..  Of course the US is customarily late to such events (world was fighting the scum since 39, we didn't hit the beaches till 44).

Interesting, I don't recall Rasta advocating for such major intervention when Russia invaded Syria. But he wouldn't be the only one. What's the difference?

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/putin-airstrikes-syrian-war-a...

Not at all, Ras. I believe it's only a matter of time before this escalates. Unfortunately, I believe that the West will wait until there is overwhelming support for intervention, thus minimizing the political risk.

That politic cartoon is lame propaganda. It paints Naziism as bombing cities, and equates it with what Putin is doing. However, that wasn't Naziism, it was war. We did far worse in Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Baghdad, Basra, and Afghanistan. The problem with Nazis is that they systematically killed over 9 million civilians. The Russians are doing some fucked up shit, but it's not systematic ethnic cleaning.

I also don't believe that the Russians have moved tens of thousands into concentration camps in Russia. They can't even get food and munitions in to their troops. How the hell could they move that many people the other way?

I don't doubt that they would if they could. It's how they "Russianized" Crimea and other parts of Ukraine. 

>not noticing ww3 has already started<

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/13/us-alert-malicious-cyber...

Stalin was the worst (40 - ? million killed)

But since we're talking eastern Europe, this is largely forgotten; 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

WW III has not started.

Stop talking that shit.

Jaz, is a cyber attack on our infrastructure an act of war?

I have to assume that we have the same cyber attack capabilities as Russia, and we also used them.

^that doesn't answer the question...

Is a cyber attack on our infrastructure an act of war?

Cyber attacks are among the greatest threats we face from foreign adversaries . It's so scary and fragile that the government doesn't tell you all about it so you don't panic.  

>also don't believe that the Russians have moved tens of thousands into concentration camps in Russia.<

Saw a clip of a member of the Duma discussing the need to set up Russian language classes for the children who have been brought from Ukraine. 

Trailhead, I do agree, but that doesn't answer my question. 

If a cyber attack on infrastructure was an act of war, then we've surely been at war with Russia and China for well over a decade. We've been doing it to them and them to us.

I see it more as a Cold War type of thing. Our supplying Ukraine with arms that are being used for offensive attacks on Russian soil seems like a far more egregious act of war, but doesn't seem to be taken as such.

The lines of war seem to have been drawn. Putin said that if we enforce a no fly zone, that's war. Biden said that if Putin puts one toe in NATO territory, that's war.

^so cyber attack that knocks out our electrical grid is not an act of war?

I don't know. There are clearly different levels of cyber attacks. I'm gathering that the folks on the red phones have that shit worked out. Seeing as how we have the capability to do it to them, and them to us, and it hasn't happened, maybe that line has been drawn. The small stuff is fine, but you don't fuck with power grids.

From the article i linked...

Multiple US government agencies issued a joint alert Wednesday warning of the discovery of malicious cyber tools created by unnamed advanced threat actors that they said were capable of gaining “full system access” to multiple industrial control systems....

One of the cybersecurity firms involved, Mandiant, said in a report that the tools’ functionality was “consistent with the malware used in Russia’s prior physical attacks” though it acknowledged that the evidence linking it to Moscow is “largely circumstantial”.

It called the tools “exceptionally rare and dangerous”....

Last month, the FBI issued an alert saying Russian hackers have scanned at least five unnamed energy companies for vulnerabilities

Doesn't seem like "small stuff"

Propaganda? Perhaps.  

Knocking out our power grid would certainly cause some to support more direct involvement in the war.

Lumber Truck, decisions on what constitutes an act of war is way beyond your and my pay grades.

I just know we aren't there yet.

Were Trump's implications that Covid was intentionally created and leaked in a Chinese lab and calling it the China virus an act of war?

Maybe provocation is a better term.

Jaz, FWIW, Mikhail Kasyanov, former Russian Prime Minister, has stated that there are many high ranking Russian officials who believe that Russia is already at war with the US, and has been for a while. 

Yes, intentionally deploying a bio weapon is an act of war. 

I'm jumping right out of this conversation right now. I will not personally condone conspiracy theories. 

^which is the conspiracy?

Trump's nonsense?

I am now advocating for Trump's lies. Just stating that deploying a bio weapon is an act of war.

Kasyanov has been pushing hard to confront Putin. Such a statement certainly fits his agenda. 

Not advocating for Trump's lies*

*

after rereading,  fair enough. 

War is just a word. Hostilities broke out between the US and Russia long ago.