Bill Moyers obviously doesn't know the first thing about fascism. He's a living example of Orwell's statement, made over 70 years ago in his essay "Politics and the English Language":
"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable.""
From "What is Fascism?" (1944):
"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.
Yet underneath all this mess there does lie a kind of buried meaning. To begin with, it is clear that there are very great differences, some of them easy to point out and not easy to explain away, between the régimes called Fascist and those called democratic. Secondly, if ‘Fascist’ means ‘in sympathy with Hitler’, some of the accusations I have listed above are obviously very much more justified than others. Thirdly, even the people who recklessly fling the word ‘Fascist’ in every direction attach at any rate an emotional significance to it. By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword."
It would ne nice to see that circumspection being applied, but I certainly don't expect it from the likes of Bill Moyers or most on the contemporary left.
Nationalists: Nationalism is universally regarded as inherently Fascist, but this is held only to apply to such national movements as the speaker happens to disapprove of.
left, right. Why always so partisan Thom? All those words up there to say you hate Bill Moyers because he is a "leftie" Democrat. It would be easier for you to just write that. And without the mostly irrelevant mess from 1944 you posted...
Words have different meanings in different contexts. A lot has happened since WW2. Of course this is just my opinion.
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before it spread to other European countries. Fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum, a melding of state power with corporate power with a dose of propagandizing cultural superiority.
The revisionism put forth from the right in recent times is that fascism is really some form of left wing idea along with Nazism.
Yeah, like having to pay a private insurance company steady payments by law, for life.
Were I fascist, I would declare myself l'insegnante and make the government make a law that says that everyone must come to my language school to learn their languages, and that everyone has to take classes forever. Muwahhahahahahah
> Bill Moyers didn't write the linked article, nor did the actual author, Rosa Brooks, seem to mention Fascism
It should be noted that the writer, Rosa Brooks, is a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, which is a non-partisan public policy institute. I don't know Brooks' politics, but I wouldn't call this writing a hit job by the Left.
I think it's interesting that Thom included this quote from Orwell: "By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’." Call it what you will, but that sure sounds like the Trump administration to me.
Also, did anyone else notice the domain of the URL Thom provided for the Orwell text? .RU Couldn't you find a non-Russian host for your source, Thom?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ausonius
Bill Moyers obviously doesn't
Bill Moyers obviously doesn't know the first thing about fascism. He's a living example of Orwell's statement, made over 70 years ago in his essay "Politics and the English Language":
"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable.""
From "What is Fascism?" (1944):
"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.
Yet underneath all this mess there does lie a kind of buried meaning. To begin with, it is clear that there are very great differences, some of them easy to point out and not easy to explain away, between the régimes called Fascist and those called democratic. Secondly, if ‘Fascist’ means ‘in sympathy with Hitler’, some of the accusations I have listed above are obviously very much more justified than others. Thirdly, even the people who recklessly fling the word ‘Fascist’ in every direction attach at any rate an emotional significance to it. By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword."
http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc
It would ne nice to see that circumspection being applied, but I certainly don't expect it from the likes of Bill Moyers or most on the contemporary left.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Maybe this will help u out,
Maybe this will help u out, thom:
http://pdxfanatic.tumblr.com/post/156517415561/elliot-lusztig-on-interpr...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
from the same "As I Please"
from the same "As I Please" column
Nationalists: Nationalism is universally regarded as inherently Fascist, but this is held only to apply to such national movements as the speaker happens to disapprove of.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
>>>No harm ever came from
>>>No harm ever came from overestimating the danger of a political situation. Whole civilizations have been lost from underestimating it.
Thom, Im sure you are more concerned about Obama's new place in DC, and the Obama/Soros counter counter coup.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
left, right. Why always so
left, right. Why always so partisan Thom? All those words up there to say you hate Bill Moyers because he is a "leftie" Democrat. It would be easier for you to just write that. And without the mostly irrelevant mess from 1944 you posted...
Words have different meanings in different contexts. A lot has happened since WW2. Of course this is just my opinion.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
can someone post a legitimate
can someone post a legitimate "right wing" or "conservative" media intellectual that is comparable?
didn't think so.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
(((words)))
(((words)))
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
thom and his links. lol.
thom and his links. lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
how propaganda works: http:/
how our authoritative POTUS is using propaganda effectively to fool people like Thom: http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/02/15/how-propaganda-works-fake-news
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Thom,
Thom,
Bill Moyers didn't write the linked article, nor did the actual author, Rosa Brooks, seem to mention Fascism, as far as I could tell.
Read the article, it's interesting.
Best,
John
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
Fascism is a form of radical
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before it spread to other European countries. Fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum, a melding of state power with corporate power with a dose of propagandizing cultural superiority.
The revisionism put forth from the right in recent times is that fascism is really some form of left wing idea along with Nazism.
In related news Franco is still dead.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
aig, maybe you can have thom
aig, maybe you can have thom sit in on some of your classes?
scary that guy is giving young people advice.
AGAIN....thom/dog....can you actually articulate your OWN thoughts and DEBATE them with people?
thought not.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
>>>a melding of state power
>>>a melding of state power with corporate power
Yeah, like having to pay a private insurance company steady payments by law, for life.
Were I fascist, I would declare myself l'insegnante and make the government make a law that says that everyone must come to my language school to learn their languages, and that everyone has to take classes forever. Muwahhahahahahah
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
And Thom, Bill Moyers is a
And Thom, Bill Moyers is a saint. He must be one of The most fair and interested men in America.
Plus Joe Campbell loved him, so there.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
Good. Nobody contradicted me,
Good. Nobody contradicted me, so I'm right.
Ahhhhhhh
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Semolina Pilchard
> Bill Moyers didn't write
> Bill Moyers didn't write the linked article, nor did the actual author, Rosa Brooks, seem to mention Fascism
It should be noted that the writer, Rosa Brooks, is a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, which is a non-partisan public policy institute. I don't know Brooks' politics, but I wouldn't call this writing a hit job by the Left.
I think it's interesting that Thom included this quote from Orwell: "By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’." Call it what you will, but that sure sounds like the Trump administration to me.
Also, did anyone else notice the domain of the URL Thom provided for the Orwell text? .RU Couldn't you find a non-Russian host for your source, Thom?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: schwarzer peter
https://www.oswaldmosley.com
https://www.oswaldmosley.com/william-buckley-interview/