Bears Ears / Outdoor Retailers / Utah
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Well for those who don't know, the Outdoor Retailers, who hold conventions twice a year in Salt Lake that bring the local economy $45 million dollars in DIRECT spending, have decided to leave Utah after attempting to get Utah 's political leaders to back off on their efforts to get not only Bears Ears rescinded and/or reduced, but also to reduce the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument declared by President Clinton 20 years ago. They are also continuing with efforts to get federal lands turned over to the states. The OR group tried to put pressure on the state to no avail. Colorado just ran ads yesterday to try to lure the OR group there.
The Outdoor Retailers had a last ditch phone call with Governor Herbert yesterday that ended badly, and Utah will not be requested to bid on the conventions.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/4952414-155/outdoor-retailer-is-leaving-utah-...
Grasping at straws, a San Juan County anti-monument group is now picking on Patagonia over a video shot in 2015, because a climber picked up a pottery shard and didn't show what he did with it. Also criticized Patagonia for showing an oil rig outside the monument. The video was attempting to show what could happen to lands inside the monument.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43210090&nid=148&title=group-criticizes-actions-... The seven minutes video is there.
One last note. Tthe anti-environmental legislator from Kanab who may be the next head of the BLM just got a bill passed that compels metropolitan Salt Lake County to allow motorized ATV 's on county streets. It was a law for other counties but Salt Lake was exempted. This man representing a district 400 miles away who is in favor of "local control" just shoved it down the county's throat much to his delight if you see his photo. http://www.sltrib.com/news/4947087-155/street-legal-atvs-could-be-coming-to
Not sure where I heard it, but I heard a joke which is a great example of "local control" gone awry. New Yorkers may try to exert local control over a federally-managed park service site and will install a New York Yankees hat on the Statue of Liberty.
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Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: utahmountaingirl
Utah does not deserve the
Utah does not deserve the money that comes to the state from this convention. It should go to Colorado.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
For sure - ths is completely
For sure - ths is completely crazy!
UT Gov Herbert lacks any real negotiating skills and in the end had no real intention of backing away from the non-winnable stances many UT politicians and US delegation have taken on public lands, etc. The financial hole in the budget left in the wake of the Outdoor Retailer show departing UT (likely to Denver) will only lead to higher taxes and "fees", let alone, again/still, the loser stance that goes against the grain of what most residents and people at large DO want - which is 'hands off' public lands. These people continually find new lows to sink to and it is mind-boggling that enough people around UT do see the OR show leaving as a "win" in that "outsiders cant push us around!" Stubborn fools cannot see past their own shoelaces.
The nonsense continues as local GOP votes to eliminate annual automobile inspection fees and other attempts to put legislation in place that gives even more power to majority party rule....and let's not forget the completely ridiculous place the LDS (so-called) church has a seat at the table as a seemingly permanent stakeholder/lobbying force in this state.
I agree, Jen, CO will earn and deserve the OR show and the recurring benefits it brings. As with many other things, UT is choosing to remain in the dustbin of the past, becoming more and more regressive all the while. Here is the ad Conservation Colorado ran this week. I do like the "higher recreation" phrase - more 14r'z (14K mountain peaks) than UT, let alone the freedom to chose Cannabis before/while/after hiking them, as many do. UT is still wringing its hands over 3.2% beer and wants to drop its DUI threshold to 0.05% as well....which I would actually be OK with that IF they forever ban 3.2% beer.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Ya know...
Ya know...I've been giving $$$ to SUWA for longer than I like to admit, and I 100% support Bears Ears, and every single other SUWA initiative.Colorado is way nicer than Utah.
Utah sucks. (I grew up in both states)
Everybody should go to Colorado, it's EPIC.
Every
Person
Inthe
Country
Utah is lame, boring, low elevation [ :) ], low energy, Mormon-dominated, shitty snow and voted for Trump.
Stay away.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
I have also lived in both
I have also lived in both places and while I do agree with many of those points, Steve, the snow and terrain in UT is hard to beat anywhere. Other than that - and the close proximity between city/metro and quality wilderness - yea, it can oftentimes be a real shit show that feels like Big Brother is always lurking in the shadows.
Culture, social life, and freedom win @ CO!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
(Strawbud? I was trying to
(Strawbud? I was trying to keep people away from Utah 'cause I love it and I like it a lot more when it is not full of people who should go to Colorado instead, right? wink wink?)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
Opps! Sorry Steve. I totally
Opps! Sorry Steve. I totally get that and do not like the population spike in UT over the last while either...except for the demographic changes that will certainly ripple through politics in the next few elections.
UT is a gem in ways and I have a love-hate thing going on that I am currently trying to square with myself.
In reality, however, business is a ton smoother in CO and people are generally much more willing to work together to reach a deal or get to more collectively beneficial agreements and outcomes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
On the flip side, CO has seen
On the flip side, CO has seen a major spike in douchbags moving in too, chasing weed and apparently not much else.
Overall, the country is rapidly changing and it will surely prove a wild ride - for better or worse.
Are you SLC-local? We need to have get-togethers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Legislators backing off
Legislators backing off public lands lawsuit???
http://www.sltrib.com/news/4956555-155/trusting-in-trump-utah-lawmakers-...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ales
i had hoped that vlz'a would
i had hoped that vlz's would have done something prior to this devastating action.
( https://www.vivalazone.org/other-stuff/save-bears-ears-national-momument )
Bears Ears National Monument is a United States National Monument located in San Juan County in southeastern Utah. The monument protects 1,351,849 acres (547,074 ha) of public land surrounding the Bears Ears, a pair of mesas.President Obama protected this land during his last days in office. "This arrogant act by a lame duck president will not stand,” said Senator Lee, a Republican, in a statement. .." send an email to you legislator to support Bears Ears Nat'l Monument. this link will look up your reps and send an email to them in your name. so easy - do it please.thank you: http://bearsearscoalition.org/action/
maybe next time. thanks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
Thanks Ales - emails sent..
Thanks Ales - emails sent...however, we need a miracle in getting them to read/listen.
I dont think they are backing away from a/the lawsuit, Slickrock. GOP barks the loudest when a Democrat is in the White House and they may now figure that since tRump does not understand or even know what he is signing they can slide some shit past him that will not pass legal muster anyway. Herbert signed the resolution last night that calls to shrink Bears Ears Monument too. Probably just a strategy to quit wasting money on an actual lawsuit to see if their orange hero will try to issue a flimsy executive order instead. Mike Lee seems to understand that the root "problem" is the Antiquities Act, hence his push to unravel it. I am not sure what other legal options may exist - if there are any, then why has Escalante remained intact for all of these years? It seems like they would have pushed "W" to end or shrink that designation if there was a way as well.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
My brother used to work for a
My brother used to work for a US Rep. - according to him, the best way to get your message through is to call, not E-mail.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
I agree and disagree,
I agree and disagree, Strawbud. They ARE backing away from the lawsuit FOR NOW as it may not be necessary with Orange Mussolini in the White House. Exactly as you say, with a Demo in the WH, lawsuits are necessary for them. But not now with a Republican congress and WH, and they could save some of the $14 million they appropriated for the legal route and make it look like they're looking out for the taxpayers on something they got chided for funding previously. .
As the article I posted makes clear,
*****
Instead of backing a lawsuit, it now "urges our federal executive agencies to do all that they can to promote the transfer of control over Utah's public lands to state management."
It also urges "our federal delegation and Congress to take necessary legislative steps to ensure the transfer of control of Utah's public lands to state management."
Only if those efforts don't yield progress, does it call for the state to pursue filing a lawsuit directly with the U.S. Supreme Court.
"It has always been the case that legislative resolution is preferred above litigation, but we need to be ready, willing and able to pursue that as a last resort if need be," legislator Keven Stratton said.
******
As for the Escalante question, I think it has to do with momentum, being in the public eye with the PLI vs. the monument designation, and the fact GWB was not as radical as Orange Mussolini. When GWB was in the WH, that was before the Bundy standoff, Malheur NWR, Recapture Canyon, Bears Ears, and the out of control whack job in the WH.
I'm sure you know when you negotiate, you sometimes ask for more than you want, so when you compromise, it looks like you're giving up something. By including GSENM in the discussion, a negotiated settlement might say "OK, we'll leave GSENM alone but we ARE gonna mess with the Bears Ears" and it looks more like a compromise. Utah voters fall for that phony BS.
You probably noticed in Thursday's paper Garfield County was set to pass a resolution in Escalante supporting the rescission or modification of GSENM, but then an "estimated 75 people, mostly monument supporters, attended a meeting on the issue Tuesday, and many were puzzled that the commission would not make the resolution's text available," The secondary headline read "Commissioners delay vote on proposal to shrink Grand Staircase after residents pack meeting." For 75 people in Garfield County to stand up and say that, that's big. http://www.sltrib.com/news/4941386-155/escalante-business-owners-rebel-a...
>>>i had hoped that vlz's would have done something prior to this devastating action.
Ales, your profile says your new, so maybe you're unaware of the many many threads Zoners have seen on the issues of Utah, public lands, and Bears Ears. This is a MUSIC board that wanders into other topics of interest, so don't be too disappointed your thread didn't get much traction. That's normal. Please keep up the good work, but the shamey finger might not be the way to go. YMMV.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
I originally got on this
I originally got on this thread this morning to mention the column from Robert Gehrke in today's SL Tribune saying the OR show leaving the state is even more devastating than previously thought, as the OR'ers were going to 5 shows per year. The estimated loss - "a half-billion dollars going away and potentially much more". Plus the loss of a cycling convention looking to come here.
From his column -
"Half a billion from Outdoor Retailers over five years, potentially another $30 million-plus a year from Interbike. All told about $12 million a year in lost state and local taxes, Herbert and the Legislature paid lip service to the outdoor industry over the years, but when push came to shove, they valued sticking it to the federal government and a drill-baby-drill mentality more.
We're paying for it now."
The column IF you're interested. http://www.sltrib.com/news/4955606-155/stubborn-drill-baby-drill-rhetori...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Spent an hour and a half out
Spent an hour and a half out by the street in front of this store today. Lots of good reception and horn honking.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
Right on, Slickrock!
Right on, Slickrock!
....I went on a long motorcycle ride, pissed at this state for unraveling one of the few sustainable and growing industries that was actually building some momentum.
Then I turn om my TV and on comes the news - hurray! Orrin Hatch held a "town hall" in some far-flung S Utah nursing home with about 30 85-yr old veterans in wheelchairs who just sat there listening, apparently drooling. That was followed by a story on some Hunting ("and Conservation", suddenly) Show @ Southtown (smaller convention center on south side of valley) in a pitch that they and similars will save the day. Not.
OR was the only lasting show with a solid base and increasing, recurring revenue that really made a difference throughout the year that I have seen since I moved here. The other random, smaller, one-off shows do not have deep or wide enough interest to generate "an industry".
It was funny (and sad) to hear from some downtown restaurant owners and workers who say OR show brings people who actually spend money by ordering drinks and real food - quite atypical of their other experiences of folks having lemon slices with water, trying to order off of the kid's meal, and no alcohol/apps/dessert...not to mention the table of 12 (parents with their kids) doing even worse with little or no tip.
UT just slapped itself in the face with a blast of reality. OR gave Herbert et al a taste of what happens in the real world of business and leveraging economic impact and this has been brewing for a while now. UT is very accustomed to pushing things off that are not comfortable or downright simply not on their or their minders agenda ("...oh yea, sorry, we will get to that but ran out of time this legislative session", etc) but that only works for so long with certain groups.
They failed on the big stage and will be stuck in red state hell like so many others with nothing going on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
https://medium.com/m/global
https://medium.com/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https://thinkprogress.o...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: utahmountaingirl
Love it Slick!!! Not sure how
Love it Slick!!! Not sure how I missed seeing you yesterday? I was in Sugar House doing errands and had lunch/beers down there yesterday also. Even went past Patagonia. Oh well. Awesome pics!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
That sucks, Firebird. I am
That sucks, Firebird. I am afraid there will be few limiting factors against this kind of crap, for a bit anyway.
OK, I had some coffee & breakfast ;) ....but, in reality, all states/locales have to use what they have to acheive the most collectively beneficial outcomes. What would CO & UT be without Rocky Mountains and associated landscapes? What would the draw be for NV without casinos/sin/conventions, largely centered around Vegas & Reno? Would FL purposely shit on tourism or retirees or privatize most beaches to fight some non-winnable land grab in the everglades? The places with the most robust economies embrace diversity and at least try to deal with some of the other accompanying baggage which they may not exactly like. Places that dig in over narrow ideologies fare much less well and get stuck with narrow-minded support from a much smaller base that ends up paying more or carrying the brunt of the burden.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
The "stupid" in Utah knows no
The "stupid" in Utah knows no bounds. A story about this letter decrying equal pay for women even made the Washington Post.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/utah-republican-argues-against-equal-pa...
Part of the article follows. Click the link to see all of the stupidity.
James Green’s letter to the editor, published in two local publications earlier this week, immediately prompted such outrage that within two days, Green had written an apology and resigned from his post as vice chair of the Wasatch County Republican Party.
Green said in his letter, published Wednesday by the Park Record and the Wasatch Wave, that men make more than women because they’re “the primary breadwinners” of their families, and paying women equally would somehow ruin the makeup of a traditional family where “the Mother” remains at home raising children.
“If businesses are forced to pay women the same as male earnings, that means they will have to reduce the pay for the men they employ, simple economics,” Green wrote. “If that happens, then men will have an even more difficult time earning enough to support their families, which will mean more Mothers will be forced to leave the home (where they may prefer to be) to join the workforce to make up the difference.”
And having more women in the workforce would create competition for jobs, “even men’s jobs,” Green wrote. That will, in turn, lower the pay for all jobs and force “more and more Mothers” into the workforce, he argued.
That’s “bad for families and thus for all of society,” Green wrote. “It’s a vicious cycle that only gets worse the more equality of pay is forced upon us. It’s a situation of well-meaning intentions, but negative unintended consequences.”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
Damn, I caught a blip on that
Damn, I caught a blip on that the other day but was hoping it was 'fake news'. What a shit-stain excuse of a food tumor loser waste of breath!
UT is already recognized as the leader in gender pay gap, among other notables. Gee, let's waste time & money studying this issue to see if it has any merit, huh? Sort of like UT pulling teeth lately to "more so study" the potential benefits of Cannabis, medical or otherwise. Let's reinvent the wheel so it only rolls in our favor. This nonsense comes from a place way beyond The Twilight Zone.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
...sort of like James Evans,
...sort of like James Evans, the scam payday lender chief and black guy currently propped up as the leader of the UT GOP. He and Mia Love are probably the only black repukedagains in all of Utah.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GDTRFB
As ever, UT politicians are
As ever, UT politicians are absolutely inept at solving problems. Wait until this homelessness "resolution plan" totally fails from bloated costs and no gain and the prison relocation effort does not work and does not lead to a successful "Silicon Slopes". Most of the quality tech firms here are satellite offices from CA and they can easily show UT a big F-U as well.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Way to go slick. Many speak
Way to go slick. Many speak of doing thing to improve our situations, though few actually come through or stay with it very long.
slick, bro use to live in utah for decades. Would go visit him almost every year for a decade+. Went to the patagonia outlet store and got great deals back in the 80 and 90's. still have those products.
Utah is an underrated state for beauty. When skiing was not good we would go camping/climbing/hiking in many areas of utah. Plus it has more and better snow if you like skiing steep with lots of powder. Easy access to canyons for skiing with bus systems in little and big cottonwood canyons. Can ski an half day in utah and be back at work by noon. In co you would be stuck in traffic and you have to drive for hours. Remember skiing for a week in utah with hotels, eating out and lift tickets were cheaper then skiing a couple days in CO. Brighton and solitude use to be 5 dollars lift tickets for the week days...could ski all week there for 30 dollars. In co one day cost more the $30 dollars.
Have many fond memories from Utah and when my bro was still alive.
Thanks for sharing and hope the right thing gets done here...