Wayne Shorter, women drummers, GTTS, etc.
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Lance minimum goad Newberry
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Some of you may remember that I was whining a while back because the brilliant drummer Brian Blade was being replaced by a woman for the Wayne Shorter Quartet shows in SF that happened this past weekend.
Over the years I have developed certain unfavorable opinions about women drummers in general, and in this particular case I was doubly disappointed to hear that Blade would be replaced by a woman - Terri Lyne Carrington - as Blade's unique style & excellence contributes in a big way to my enjoyment of that group, a group that has played together and I've been seeing for almost 17 years.
I had spent a considerable sum to see all four shows they played this year (which at the time of purchase were advertised with Blade on drums) and even though I knew Carrington was highly regarded I was pretty bummed leading up to the shows, without my usual strong anticipatory excitement for this unreal group.
I went into the first show on Thursday feeling a little uninspired but lecturing myself to listen to what was actually being played and to NOT "listen" to what WASN'T being played (something I think we are all guilty of when we're wishing someone else was on a stage, "Oh, Molo would be SO MUCH BETTER HERE!" "Damn, Sless would be KILLING this solo!!!" etc.). I think that's something that's much easier to say than do, but fortunately I didn't allow my focus to be on how different the drumming was and got lost quickly in the depth and flow of the music.
At first Carrington, who as I said is extremely well regarded and has a seriously fat resume, was pretty much what I was expecting; nifty and just fine but soft, pretty basic and lacking an up-front lead dynamic (the general issues I have with women drummers) and as usual I was thinking that there were dozens of drummers at that level MUCH better. Fortunately I realized almost right away that while she was nothing like Blade (who is brilliantly aggressive, often cacophonous and at times bombastic) her soft, smooth, more straightforward, less pyrotechnic drumming allowed for a very different sound than I have heard from this group over the years, allowing for more space and gentle flow for the other unbelievably brilliant players - Shorter on sax, Danilo Perez on piano and John Pattatucci on bass - to explore. When it was over I was under-whelmed with the drumming on it's own, but it wasn't bad and the show ended up being a melodic, hypnotic, searching, glorious performance, and I credited Carrington's style for helping to create that.
The next night I enjoyed her style more, finding the same things were happening with the group. The Wayne Shorter Quartet is the most seriously improvisational group I have even been exposed to, so different players are going to create different directions, and I REALLY liked the direction they were going with a very different, more flowing percussion approach.
The third night I really began digging what she was doing, and as I watched her I had the thought that she was sort of a jazz version of a Levon Helm, Charlie Watts or Stan Lynch, who IMO are three of the greatest rock drummers of all time. To me their style is a "more with less" approach but they're so deeply rooted in the groove they do more with one or two simple strokes than what other drummers try to do with twenty. Carrington would create a groove, change a direction or respond to another player with just a few perfectly placed and super creative accents or strokes, and in the wide open WSQ setting in particular it began to really work for me.
By yesterday's final show I was pretty much all in with Terri Lyne Carrington on drums. I still have my issues with women drummers and she really didn't dissuade me from them, but while she couldn't do the same physical things male drummers can she is very talented technically and she has a DEEP and natural ear for rhythm, which allows her to be an outstanding musical conversationalist.
Heading into the weekend I was regretting a bit buying expensive tix to all four shows, but oh my, now that the run is over I'm so glad I did. Each show was amazing in different ways. Even though they played many of the same "compositions" the first three nights, each time they were played so completely different it was difficult to tell they were the same "songs". Yesterday they played a new composition, and damn if it didn't totally blow my mind. All four were timeless joys for me and all will go on my 2017 show list as Show Of The Year candidates, but I'll be happily surprised/shocked if I see anything better than yesterdays performance.
Just goes to show how important it is to GO TO THE SHOW!!!!!
At 83 Wayne Shorter is still a genius, his group still explores the deepest corners every night and Terri Lyne Carrington adds something very different and very good to this great group. Damn, I want to see them four more times!!!
If anyone knows of recordings of these shows or comes across any/all I would LOVE to get my hands on them.
BTW, it was great seeing Furious E at the Saturday show and getting the chance to chat with him for a good while. If you haven't met that guy you should put that on your bucket list, because he is one very cool cat.
And thanks for the gift E!!!
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Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
So are you saying you don't
So are you saying you don't like women drummers? Wayne really has a difficult time playing nowadays. Saw Brian not too long ago, he was really great.
Cool story, Lance.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jon
??? dude wtf...
??? dude wtf...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
Have you heard every woman
Have you heard every woman drummer? When I heard TLC she killed it.
Glad you heard a great band of legends.
Shame you have a problem...and it is your problem.
https://youtu.be/nQjjHjcjzb0
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
4 Times!?!
4 Times!?!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
I tell you right now, Dave
I tell you right now, Dave Alvin's drummer, Lisa Pankrantz the other night was one of the top 4 drummers I ever saw. She's on s short list with Carl Palmer, Buddy Rich, and Richie Hayward.
As an audio guy, I am big on large sound, big room, natural reverb, wood floor sounding drums. The Boulton Center in Bayshore makes any drummer sound like John Bonham.
Lisa Pankrantz (that night, in that hall) proved that all drummers are created equal. Some are just better then others.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mike Dalton
Heathen Tom, as usual, well
Heathen Tom, as usual, well articulated observations about the subtlety of live music. Forget gender, anyone swapping out for Brian Blade would have been a major bummer. Glad you stuck with it and described it for those of us who were to stupid to GTTS. Cheers
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jon
>>>>>Over the years I have
>>>>>Over the years I have developed certain unfavorable opinions about women drummers in general,
is this why there is a shortage of women drummers on VIVA?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sycamore Slough
Last time I saw Wayne Shorter
Last time I saw Wayne Shorter was about Summer 1986 at Montréal Int'l Jazz Festival, indoors in some Cool Theatre, maybe Ste. Denis Street ...
Someone turned me on to a ticket, and I was aware that they were all Jazz Legends onstage.
It was already late-night when I ambled in and saw quite the electrifying performance unfold.
Just Dumb Luck on my part. Somebody look up that ensemble in that year, please.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
My little opinions have no
My little opinions have no affect whatsoever on who or what finds itself here.
This place could use a few more rimshots though.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
We went to the Thursday night
We went to the Thursday night show and I thought it was stellar!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Always great seeing u, lance.
Always great seeing u, lance.
I need to start doing more than just one show of these WSQ runs.
i missed blade but carrington's much different approach made these extra unique performances.
the band couldn't fall too much into its old patterns, which kept them even more in the moment.
that was about as real and deep as jazz gets, my friend.
very cool to hear how strong the run finished.
>>>but while she couldn't do the same physical things male drummers can she is very talented technically and she has a DEEP and natural ear for rhythm.
This is pretty much how I feel about most female instrumentalists in general.
what they typically lack in physical, technical capability they often make up for with better music fundamentals than most male players.
not too sure what timpane's referring to by Wayne having a difficult time playing these days.
the man I saw on Saturday may b the most skilled improvisational musician alive.
he appeared capable of doing anything he wanted from a well constructed, shredding type, bebop flavored solo to telling the story of a universe with one beautifully, softly long held note, a violent off the register screech or a heavy, well intentioned, perfectly timed rest.
so clearly a living legend, felt like I was seeing a Coltrane, Mohammed Ali or maya Angelou.
so lucid and capable for his age, his energy is almost frightening in person.
shorter is in touch with the deepest humanistic, artistic and spiritual dimensions of jazz.
nam myoho renge kyo, muthafuckas!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
Really?
Really?
The list of powerful women instrumentalists is too long to mention.
You are great bassist E but would you like to go against Tal? Limited physicality and all...
We have made so little progress.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Tal's got mad chops but I
Tal's got mad chops but I honestly feel is a little overrated simply because she is female.
Flame away.
now kaki King, there's a chick instrumentalist that can shred with the big boys.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
No interest in flaming but I
No interest in flaming but I will say you need some consciousness raising.
I will not begin listing links to show the great numbers of exceptional women in all facets of music going back hundreds of years, you can do that on your own but here is a snippet that illustrates a great and the attitudes that sadly still prevail.
Mary Osborne
When Mary Osborne was first breaking onto the scene, jazz violinist Joe Venuti and the other men who’d heard about a “guitar gal” set out to play a practical joke. Assuming she wouldn’t be able to keep up during her audition for his band, Venuti chose an obscure song from the 1920s and played it at unrelentingly fast tempo. Then, he kicked it up a notch and began changing keys every four measures.
She was, disappointingly to the jokesters, completely unfazed by every challenge they threw at her. An incredible player with a deep love of Charlie Christian, Mary Osborne was more than just a girl with a guitar, but a deep, proficient guitarist with something to prove. Throughout her career, Osborne fronted her own trio and worked tirelessly as a session musician recording with artists like Mel Torme, Clark Terry, Art Tatum, Dizzy Gillespie, Coleman Hawkins and the aforementioned Mary Lou Williams. She also shared the stage with Billie Holiday. Very few women up to that point had even laid hands on a guitar, let alone a jazz archtop, but Osborne brought a spunk and virtuosity that put her down in history as a luminary.
There would be many more and more recognition save the paternalist horseshit of the past that is still going on and being ratcheted up in the age of Trump.
Should Hoover hold off on getting his daughter into an instrument because of her built in physical limitations?
Again, really?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Absolutely not, all the more
Absolutely not, all the more reason to start her early if anything.
and don't misunderstand me, although I'm mostly speaking in generalized prejudices which, granted, is inherently misguided, I'm not suggesting women r in any way inferior musicians to men.
if anything the opposite is, once again, "generally" the case.
so much of music is about playing a supportive, conversationalist, role with lots of intuition.
That's Something, as most wives will tell u, alotta dudes struggle with.
It's not all about who can play the fastest most complex riffs.
prince thought women were better musicians than men.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Painted Mandolin
I have no hang-ups about
I have no hang-ups about woman drummers other than that there don't seem to be too many great ones....
First Fillmore Show I ever attended was an amazing improv throw down - way back in June of '88:
The sensation I got from seeing Carlos w Wayne shorter was akin to witnessing to joyful Labrador Retrievers' frolicking in the waves at the beach.
Mad joy......
Years later I was reminded of it when I caught Branford jamming with the boys at Oakland Coliseum on NYE.
Not quite Nassau Coliseum - but pretty great.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: aiq
http://www.grimygoods.com
http://www.grimygoods.com/2015/04/07/the-20-best-female-drummers-by-all-...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Lance states:
Lance states:
"If anyone knows of recordings of these shows or comes across any/all I would LOVE to get my hands on them."
Talked to my taper friend last week and he went to NY for the WS shows then to all SF 4 nights of the shows you saw lance. Usually takes him a while to process though. Will ask him and see what he says. He would want me to process them...Hmmmm...
How was the sound lance?
Was it chatty at the venue?
Will update the thread if I hear anything...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
I was at that Fillmore
I was at that Fillmore Santana/Shorter show! Great stuff!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
Patrick, you could hear a pin
Patrick, you could hear a pin drop at SF Jazz and the building is perfect acoustically speaking!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>>not too sure what
>>>>>not too sure what timpane's referring to by Wayne having a difficult time playing these days.
He's the guy that said Richard Thompson has no technique and just bangs on the guitar, so consider the source.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
With all do respect to Wayne,
With all do respect to Wayne, the last time I saw him he didn't play well. Maybe he's losing his hearing or he's just getting old but it was bad. His legacy is what it is and I give him in the utmost respect as a musician. He is truly one of the greats. Timmy, seems like you can't let that comment go. I know you don't know shit about jazz or Wayne Shorter. That's why you listen to guys like RT and his old grandad band. Think about it like this, RT isn't even close to Wayne's level of musicianship. His sloppy solos and out of tune singing will never get him anywhere near Wayne's platform. Don't think about it too hard, guy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Mr. Timpane, the comparison
Mr. Timpane, the comparison is like ice cream to chili. They're both pleasing, if done to your taste, but don't take the place of one another.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
We could sit around and live
We could sit around and live in a fantasy land where RT can play like Wayne, I guess. But that shit just wouldn't be the truth. He should be happy to even have his name in the same sentence as Wayne Shorter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
I think, at some level, we
I think, at some level, we all struggle with the notion of applied studies versus the folkloric approach to musicianship. Still, I don't think it's unfair to judge the competency of two musicians from vastly different genres.
I do think it's pretty clear that Mr. Timpane's wrong about Richard Thompson, though.
Also, last time I saw Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock was accompanying the quartet with Brian Blade on drums, and they were slaying. But, I also don't know shit about jazz.
Nice thread, Lance.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
"jazz fans" can be kinda
"jazz fans" can be kinda funny...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Thompsons skills as a player
Thompsons skills as a player aren't even comparable to me. Wayne just knows a lot more about the theory of music and has played with players his whole life who were just as good if not better than he was. That's why he's so good. I guess ateix rhinks Thompson on his level. I would just think that's laughable. I'm just an asshole though. Thompson plays with a bunch of duds. Wayne has had to stand next to guy's like Miles Davis, and Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard among many others and do his best. RT doesn't know shit about that and never will.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Sounds like you're trying to
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Not at all. I'm judging them
Not at all. I'm judging them based off of their playing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
Sometimes horn players have
Sometimes horn players have difficulty playing at high altitude?
It was said by friends that Wayne had trouble playin' a show with Herbie in Park City, early 2000's
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>Was it chatty at the venue
>>>Was it chatty at the venue<<<
It was pin-drop quiet all four shows.
I was amazed.
And appreciative.
And a bit proud.
And sure, Wayne may have had an off night the night you saw him Timpane, but while Wayne Shorter is 83 and has issues (I saw his hand trembling almost uncontrollably when he was attempting to fold his charts) as E said, they guy in SF last week was just amazing, on the mark and playing exactly what he was hearing. When he went from trembling hand to saxophone playing, he went from an old dude to the timeless far reaches.
He may need to sit down while playing now, but he still takes it to the deep, dark corners. I have issues with Charles Lloyd's power and control these days (although he ripped the last time I saw him) but Wayne has never disappointed me, and he didn't at any time over these four shows.
You can call me a shill, but I'll disagree with that. I don't spend big money on image or the past, but I spend money happily on players like Phil Lesh & Wayne Shorter. Because they're still taking it far & deep. Because they're still the REAL deal.
>>>he appeared capable of doing anything he wanted from a well constructed, shredding type, bebop flavored solo to telling the story of a universe with one beautifully, softly long held note, a violent off the register screech or a heavy, well intentioned, perfectly timed rest<<<
Yep, that's it. I wish I could say it that succinctly.
Whatever words are used the playing was just brilliant for four straight nights.
And just because one doesn't see women playing center field for the Yankees, guarding Seph Curry or competing in the PGA tour, that doesn't mean one doesn't appreciate great women athletes.
Unless they try to play center field for the Yankees, guard Steph Curry or try to compete on the PGA tour.
Drums are a physical instrument as well as a musical one.
In my experience the physicality makes a difference.
Still, please let me try to be clear through all my babble...
I thought Terri Lyne Carrington was VERY good, and helped the music soar.
But really the only thing that matters is that the four shows were all fucking amazing, no matter who was playing.
And that's all I ask.
Go to the show.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Oh, and by the way, Wayne
Oh, and by the way, Wayne Shorter didn't have to stand next to Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard and many others; at one point or another they all had to stand next to HIM.
That's a fact.
Dude's a master.
Bow to the master.
Go to the show.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
http://nikkiglaspie.com/about
Just caught Nikki Glaspie in a set led by New Orleans Avant-Garde cellist Helen Gillet last Friday night at Allways. She blew me away with an intense, physical style of drumming reminiscent of Art Blakey. I'd like to see Lance try to question her as to women's physical capability to drum. She'd probably just deck him.
Didn't know she is Dumpstafunk's drummer and worked with Beyoncé for three years until I read the above bio. She is ridiculously talented.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Ha!
Ha!
Nikki Glaspie is one that I've seen who handled the seat perfectly.
I was bummed when I went to a Dumpstafunk show in Santa Cruz a few years ago and before the show our good & great Dynamohum told me a woman drummer was playing, new to the band. I almost left.
After the show I was ALL in on her!
She my exception to the rule in my 3D conversations about this subject and I almost mentioned her in my yammering above, but believe it or not I do edit.
And Dave, I'm sure there's lots of women who can deck me. That doesn't make them great drummers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
How do you feel about female
How do you feel about female guitarists, Lance?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Did you say that Heron
Did you say that Heron Oblivion reminded you of heroin music, Lance?
Sorry in advance for the pile-on. You kind of put yourself there with a statement like
"...doesn't mean one doesn't appreciate great women athletes.
Unless they try to play center field for the Yankees, guard Steph Curry or try to compete on the PGA tour."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Did you say that Heron
Did you say that Heron Oblivion reminded you of heroin music, Lance?
Sorry in advance for the pile-on. You kind of put yourself there with a statement like
"...doesn't mean one doesn't appreciate great women athletes.
Unless they try to play center field for the Yankees, guard Steph Curry or try to compete on the PGA tour."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: troubador
Pretty sad you let a person's
Pretty sad you let a person's gender pre-judge her talent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
I like ragtime.
I like ragtime.
The Fabulous Ingenues
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AHuGGq3fUB0
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Slacker, is that video just
Slacker, is that video just illustrative or do you really like it? I thought it was sort of cool.
EB Fox, I enjoy few (white) female vocalists and so use that as part of the information when I make choices about shows that I go to. Is that similar to what Lance does?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: troubador
Hey Judit,
Hey Judit,
I don't know Lance at all and do not want to judge his view of females based on this thread topic. However, with the strides we as a human race are trying to make in gender equality and identity, why bring up the gender in a way that goes against the goal of hopefully achieving equality?
In my opinion, give a person credit (or not) based on their talent in their craft without the old, "Oh wow, she's good for a chick." Or, "Chick drummers really suck." I just don't think that's a fair assessment.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
Lance, it seems you may have
Lance, it seems you may have mildly offended somebody. Check your email for a warning letter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
Damn. We were this close to
Damn. We were this close to all the exiled zoners returning, and Lance goes and ruins it with his outdated perspective on gender equality.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Yeah, I pretty much knew the
Yeah, I pretty much knew this thread would end up going this way. I almost didn't start it because I figured people would end up offended.
As was said, it's my issue and one I acknowledge based on personal experience, and is further engrained when I read something like, "Terri Lyne Carrington is the greatest drumming prodigy since Tony Williams." Which is something I read in a major newspaper leading up to last weeks shows. I mean, common'.
As for musical talent I have never noticed any significant difference between men & women guitar players, keys players, bass players, strings, etc. A jazz big band that I see often has three trombone players and one is a woman; she WAILS and is as good or better than the men.
As I said my issues have nothing to do with musical talent; IMO drums are just much more of a physical/athletic endeavor, and in that light, if we're to be perfectly gender equal I guess Serena Williams should be playing Roger Federer in best of five sets instead her sister in best of three's, and there shouldn't be women's tee's on golf courses, and how come there ISN'T a woman playing center field for the Yankees?
It's a gender equality outrage.
Still, I apologize for any insult I may have projected.
I'm a bad person.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Drumming isn't an athletic
Drumming isn't an athletic endeavor. Yes, it requires physical stamina, but it's not like you need to HAMMER the drums. I don't see any handicap for women.
Now, if you wanna talk about Tuba players..
You're not a bad person, just wrong about this one.
Apology accepted, Lance.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
...
...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
The only drummers that draw
The only drummers that draw any interest from me, are those who make it a physical endeavor; male or female. The rest are percussionists.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
Remember when google would
Remember when google would correct "she invited" with "he invited"?
good times
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: troubador
Hi Lance,
Hi Lance,
I am not offended by your words. I was just disappointed to read that thought projected, especially here on the Zone where it's been pretty Liberal thinking since its inception, sans the handful of Conservatives who post here.
So, sorry Hoover and St. Mark, there is no letter coming to Lance from admin. You both are not immune from calling out Zoners either whose opinions, agenda, or lifestyle don't coincide with your beliefs.
I'm into having conversations and figuring things out.
If there is something I need to be educated about on the gender issue, I'm open to it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
Sheila E is pretty cool
Sheila E is pretty cool
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Bluelight
Indeed.
Indeed.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>>However, with the
>>>>>However, with the strides we as a human race are trying to make in gender equality and identity
Not just gender but with the disabled too.
Indomitable Spirit is really a band that really drives that point home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AckxOWz868k
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
Those kids in Indomitable
Those kids in Indomitable Spirit are so brave.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
>>>Drumming isn't an athletic
>>>Drumming isn't an athletic endeavor.
i'm getting the impression most of the people in this thread have never seen Brian blade drum for Wayne shorter.
it's a kind of drumming that makes professional, prog, metal and punk musicians take a step back.
indomitable spirit might b the only band more impressive than WSQ out there today.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: |-|/-\|_|_
>>>Drumming isn't an athletic
>>>Drumming isn't an athletic endeavor.
can we get a ruling on juggling?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Is Lance the same age
Is Lance the same age demographic as Hillman?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Where do we stand on female
Where do we stand on female comedians?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Hall, to answer your question
Hall, to answer your question I'd say it's more of an artistic endeavor than an athletic one - but I suppose some people approach it as an athletic endeavor - same as drummers. have you watched rhythmic gymnastics? That's an example of artistry and athletic ability. And then there are numbers jugglers who try to get as many objects airborne at one time. different goals and objectives. Both require endurance and timing - and coordination
Did you happen to catch today's Science Friday? It was all about endurance
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>> have you watched rhythmic
>>> have you watched rhythmic gymnastics?
Hell yeah! If golf isn't on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: pancake
sly dunbar is the best
sly dunbar is the best drummer on the planet, period.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Oh, turtle. U and your reggae
Oh, turtle. U and your reggae legends
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
I love drummers, like guitar
I love drummers, like guitar players there have been a lot of great ones with a voice(sound) that is recognizable.
Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Jack DeJohnette, Billy Cobham, Al Jackson Jr, Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd, Levon Helm......But...
Tony Williams is by far the best of all time and as good as Brian Blade is he's nowhere near the driving force that was Tony Williams.
1963 Miles Davis - Seven Steps to Heaven!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQMJv3HuZdU
!!!!!!!!!!!!1965 Miles Davis – Live at The Plugged Nickel!!!!!!!!!!!
1964 Herbie Hancock – Empyrean Isles!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oirjDyliqA
1968 - Miles Davis - Miles in the sky!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY96aBGZv9I
1969 Miles Davis - Filles De Kilimanjaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiGf9nQsqe4
1986 Album (Public Image Ltd album) Ha ha ha...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
Here's Brian Blade & The
Here's Brian Blade & The Fellowship Band with a track off my favorite album of theirs! So good and mellow man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YT74nAiLSM
Landmarks is the album...Brian Blade Fellowship kicks ass, and I love the hell out of Kurt Rosenwinkel.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
Fer Turtle...
Fer Turtle...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Could you see this thread
Good to see this thread still going but the numbers are totally underwhelming
I'm just gonna say this will never become a chicken bong thread
where is the mrs anyway
carry-on all and let's leave the sweater vests out of it
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Well, gender biases aside, it
Well, gender biases aside, it's still the most successful Wayne shorter thread either of the zones have ever known.
If I was to earnestly posit another controversial notion, like the idea that minorities have better rhythm, could that push this thing to 100?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>>If I was to earnestly
>>>>>If I was to earnestly posit another controversial notion, like the idea that minorities have better rhythm, could that push this thing to 100?
I would argue it's more a cultural thing than a genetic thing.
I would point to 3rd Bass as an example of white people with amazing rhythm due to their cultural upbringing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VpZk9dGXGA
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
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Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Good point, the guys from 3rd
Good point, the guys from 3rd base certainly deserve to b mentioned in the same breath as tony Williams and Brian blade.
speaking of which, nice Williams links, hoople.
while I've never seen the fellowship live, from the recordings and video I've experienced in the past, it seems that blade drums more intensely for WSQ.
And while I'm no aficionado I do think blade's live work with shorter is very much in the ballpark with any of the greatest jazz, or any kind of music really, drumming performances I've ever heard.
lance, u want to weigh in on that?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
Justin Timberlake is a good
Justin Timberlake is a good dancer. That's worth noting, I think.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
So is Kevin federline and
So is Kevin federline and Baryshnikov.
odds that the first time those 2 have been mentioned in the same sentence?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: St. Mark
Very high, E.
Very high, E.
K-Fed put on some weight since the Brittany days, I believe. Riding that 30k a month check from the Spears Trust, LLC. buys a lot of pork rinds.
I'm not sure he's the spry B Boy you remember.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Lance, talked to my taper
Lance, talked to my taper friend. He said he send me all 4 WS SF shows in raw format. Meaning they would be one or two wav files for each show. He is still on travel and won't be back till 3nd week of may. Said he try and get me the shows then. He did not comment on the sound - he had not listened to them yet. He does not process his own shows. It takes me 3 hours to process each show. With 4 shows would take me 12 hours. Not sure if I will have the time to process them.
Would you be able to deal with them in the raw format lance? Long wav files either in 16/44? Think he records in 16/44 format...
Or they will probably be on traders den in 4-6 months is my estimate....
Please let me know that you think about that...
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Side note: His comments on the shows were, shortest shorter shows he seen, Commented that brian blade was not there and there was a women drummer, last said he enjoyed the third night the most musically.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Ooo, I was there the 3rd
Ooo, I was there the 3rd night.
I'd love copies of the 3rd and 4th night.
I think I could handle the raw files.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
I went the third night as
I went the third night as well!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
When it comes to opinions, I
When it comes to opinions, I have a few. When it comes to handling files (or anything remotely technical) I got nothin'.
The only way I get recorded music is by purchasing a CD or having someone graciously give them to me. If I get anything from these shows someone else will have to do all the work, work that I would greatly appreciate if any of these shows ever found their way to me (I still thank hedspace in my mind every time I listen to the WSQ shows he sent me a few years ago, and I listen to those all the time - THANKS AGAIN HED!!!).
The shows may have been a bit shorter than other WSQ shows I've seen, but not by much. I think they all clocked in around 1:20, but they did play shorter pieces, stopping more often than in the past, and the length of each seemed about the same each night.
Each night the first piece went about fifteen minutes; I've often seen them go a half-hour to forty-five minutes before stopping for the first time, and the longest piece on this run seemed to be around twenty, maybe twenty-five minutes. But every one was great every night.
And yeah, the third night was brilliant.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Sorry to Furious E and Woz
Sorry to Furious E and Woz for not including them with lance for files that they could acquire. :)
Will update this thread when I hear from him and get the files. It may take awhile he said he might want to come to my house and drop them off.
About processing them, usually do not convert shows unless I went to them and recorded it - there is not a personal connection to the show. I do make exceptions such as if it is rare etc... Though do not want to commit to converting all 4 shows. If they sound good was maybe thinking of doing the third night...
PS: About contacting the three of you above, none of you have emails listed...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
[email protected]
M r . E t i s m e @ g m a i l dot com
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Poz
Funny, I saw the thread title
Funny, I saw the thread title and immediately clicked it, because it reminded me of when I saw Herbie Hancock about a decade ago, and was aboslutely blow the fuck away by his female drummer. I figured I'd read the thread to learn about some awesome female drummers. Haven't finished the thread yet, but decided to google and find out who the crazy good drummer I saw was. Lo and Behold, it's Terri Lyne Carrington! Go figure. I do remember her as kicking fucking ass. Gotta' find some youtubes to see if it's like I remember.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Listened to Filles de
Listened to Filles de Kilimanjaro earlier today (Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams) and the percussion work is pretty unreal. I like Williams' work on In a Silent Way more than anything else in the world, probably.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
A Poz sighting!
A Poz sighting!
My thread is validated.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Poz
>>> Pretty sad you let a
>>> Pretty sad you let a person's gender pre-judge her talent. >>>
Where did he do that? All I saw was him talking about drummers he's actually seen, which would be post-judging and a far different thing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: |-|/-\|_|_
"In medicine, guttae, the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttae_(medical).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roy Batty
WTF Poz!
WTF Poz!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Art, bitches!
Art, bitches!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l03dTGBzfzU&feature=youtu.be
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
I saw Dave Holland play solo
I saw Dave Holland play solo and acoustic for about 15 minutes a few weeks back. Big old fuckin' standup bass, no amplification. Wailed on an original tune (or an improvised one, I dunno, didn't ask) and a take on Ellington's "Caravan."
That took some serious physicality.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
neat.
neat.
I've played Tuba, sousaphone, and all kinds of electric basses for the majority of my life and still can't believe how guys like Holland can wail on a doghouse like they do.
To me it's like trying to express yourself on a tractor with strings.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
So, I was pleasantly shocked
So, I was pleasantly shocked to see Wayne Shorter's performance earlier this year in Newark NJ near the top of list of "NPR Music's Essential Songs, Albums, Performances And Videos Of 2017 (So Far)":
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/28/534599159/npr-musics-essential-songs-album...
Nice little blurb about the show. Wish I realized the magnitude of the performance when I saw Herbie Hancock join the Quartet at Newport in 2013 as part of Wayne Shorter's 80th birthday celebration:
http://www.npr.org/event/music/208274665/wayne-shorter-quartet-with-herb...
I remember clear as day that the playing was off the chain, but a few more years worth of knowledge would have gone a long way toward appreciating how amazing that show was.
With the very recent passing of Geri Allen (educator, pianist), and then Kelan Phil Cohran (one of the earliest members of the Sun Ra Arkestra), I'm reminded of how crucial it is to show the fuck up and see your heroes.
Catch ya fools at Birdland sometime during the last week of September. Will be riding the astral highway with Pharoah Sanders. Oh, yeah.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Furious Eugenius, you should
Furious Eugenius, you should fly into NYC for one of those dates.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
I was surprised to see
I was surprised to see pharaoh has some west coast dates in September, gonna try and catch him in Humboldt.
It's a little more in my budget than NYC, but kickin it at birdland with u sounds like a dream, ateix.
And I hear ya about not being able fully comprehend/appreciate WSQ the 1st few times u see them.
1st time for me was circa 2002 and I really enjoyed it but was totally at a loss.
i feel like I understand how they operate a little bit better every time I catch'em.
Wayne's quartet isn't just great, I honestly believe they're actually moving the entire culture of jazz and even America forward in their own small but significant way.
and you're damn lucky to have seen Hancock with them, Herbie's bond with Wayne transcends music into something nothing short of spiritual.
I've almost finished reading this: https://www.amazon.com/Reaching-Beyond-Improvisations-Buddhism-Joyful-eb...
nam myoho renge kyo, muthafuckas!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Wow, yeah true. These dates
Wow, yeah true. These dates come off of his facebook events page. I recently read that Sonny Rollins has retired (ostensibly for real this time) from playing, so it's encouraging to see a busy but intelligently scheduled calendar for a player of the caliber of Pharoah Sanders:
Mon 03 Jul 2017 Festival Jazz à Vienne Vienne, France Tickets
Fri 07 Jul 2017 Charlie Jazz Festival Vitrolles, France Tickets
Fri 07 Jul 2017 — Sun 09 Jul 2017 CHARLIE JAZZ FESTIVAL 2017 Vitrolles, France Tickets
Sat 08 Jul 2017 Domaine De Fontblanche Vitrolles, France Tickets
Mon 17 Jul 2017 Unknown venue Nice, France Tickets
Mon 17 Jul 2017 Nice Festival 2017 Nice, France Tickets
Tue 25 Jul 2017 Dakota Jazz Club Minneapolis, MN, US Tickets
Wed 26 Jul 2017 Dakota Jazz Club Minneapolis, MN, US Tickets
Thu 27 Jul 2017 Musical Instrument Museum Phoenix, AZ, US Tickets
Sat 29 Jul 2017 New Mexico Jazz Festival 2017 Santa Fe, NM, US Tickets
Fri 01 Sep 2017 Cité de la Musique Paris, France Tickets
Thu 21 Sep 2017 Kuumbwa Jazz Center Santa Cruz, CA, US Tickets
Thu 21 Sep 2017 Kuumbwa Jazz Center Santa Cruz, CA, US Tickets
Tue 26 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Tue 26 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Wed 27 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Wed 27 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Wed 27 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Thu 28 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Thu 28 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Fri 29 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Fri 29 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Fri 29 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Sat 30 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Sat 30 Sep 2017 Birdland New York, NY, US Tickets
Sat 14 Oct 2017 Rialto Center for the Arts Atlanta, GA, US Tickets
Thu 09 Nov 2017 — Sun 12 Nov 2017 Le Guess Who? 2017 Utrecht, Netherlands Tickets
Thanks for the link to that treatise E, that looks fucking awesome.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
And is it true pharaoh is
And is it true pharaoh is gonna join Raga massive for a trane tribute in Brooklyn in late June?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
That was last week and I
That was last week and I missed it because I was going to the Wilco fest. Was agonizing over whether to travel down the Berkshires and into the city for it. Therefore Birdland is probably the most important thing on my radar right on, musically speaking.
Also the Charlie Parker Jazz Festival in late August has got a few pretty outstanding names, that's another must-see for me.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Lol, yeah late June has come
Lol, yeah late June has come and gone hasn't it?
My oh my, that's a tough one to miss, I'd love to hear me some audio of that.
I do so enjoy a well intentioned, heavy hitter trane tribute.
the best jazz I've ever seen outside of wsq might very well have been Azar Lawrence (he played on parts of the Miles Davis 'dark magus' album) performing the works of John Coltrane one night only at the world beat center, of all places, in San Diego about a decade ago.
just fucking sensational and that was with a total c list backing band of nobody's.
fairly rare to get that kind of one off in San Diego but it sure is nice to b there when it happens
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
>> Tony Williams is by far
>> Tony Williams is by far the best of all time and as good as Brian Blade is he's nowhere near the driving force that was Tony Williams.
Uh there is another drummer, one who played in Miles original powerhouse quintet, that is in the same league if not better then Tony.
Philly Joe Jones.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
What do u jazz nerds think of
What do u jazz nerds think of antonio sanchez?
I think he's one of the greatest drummers alive
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I'm a huge fan of Antonio
I'm a huge fan of Antonio Sanchez.
And I'm glad to see this thread carrying on in a positive - go to the show - mentality.
Carry on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
I'm also a fan of this thread
I'm also a fan of this thread. Kudos to Lance 4 starting it.
I look forward 2 posting a 100 at the 100'th post, so even though this is # 99...
Stay tuned...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Go 2 the show!
Go 2 the show!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Did not forget this thread.
Did not forget this thread. My friend went on a 6800 mile bike ride across the US from May to Sept who recorded the shows. Talked to him 2 nights ago at "the bad plus" and he said the shows Wayne shorter shows are processed ready to upload though the person who is doing it had a health problem in the family and he said should upload shows soon to Traders den.
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Did anyone go see crosscurrent in SF? (Dave Holland, Zakir Hussain, Chris Potter, etc)
My taper friend went and all 4 shows are up on traderden.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/search.php?searchid=12793856
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
I've been meaning to try and
I've been meaning to try and look up some cross currents vids on YouTube.
they've got a pretty good buzz surrounding them right now.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I saw one of the Crosscurrent
I saw one of the Crosscurrent shows at the Miner in SF and thought it was just OK.
It could have been the general state I've been in lately, it could have been that I couldn't hear Zakir very well (the drummer was hittin' 'em hard and sort of washed out what Zakir was doing) and it didn't seem that Zakir was really doing all that much anyway, it could have been that while I think he's a fine player I've never been "taken away" by Chris Potter, it could have been that it was their second show of the day and the last of their run in SF and it just wasn't their best performance.
Whatever it was, I didn't get much out of it.
The best part of the show was toward the end when I was hanging at the top of the main room and a little dude with an entourage including a very large man was ushered in and sat at the little table in the back corner, right next to where I was standing. After a minute I recognized the large man as the great organist Joey DeFrancesco. I then realized the little dude sitting right next to me was Van Morrison, who was playing two shows with DeFrancesco at the Miner the next two nights.
I thought it was pretty cool to be grooving to Zakir Hussain with Van Morrison.
I also saw The Bad Plus at the Miner last night, the first of their four night run there. I already have a ticket for their Sunday show and have been looking forward to that, but the band is breaking up after this tour and a good discounted ticket was available yesterday afternoon so I went for it, and am glad I did.
The Bad Plus is a really unique jazz trio. I've been seeing them for about 15 years and have always loved them. I'm sad to see them shutting it down, but after 17 years together I guess they need change.
Thanks for keeping the Shorter shows and this thread in mind Patrick. I'm technologically disabled so downloads and all that sort of thing are lost on me, but hopefully I'll be able to get copies of the shows at some point.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Furious E
Interesting, do u think cross
Interesting, do u think cross currents would benefit from stripping down to a smaller ensemble?
and I've been very curious about the whole defrancesco & van duo shows.
heard the bad plus we're breaking up but I'm not familiar with them.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I think Crosscurrents would
I think CrossCurrents would be better without a drummer at all. The one in that band is good but not brilliant IMO, and as I said he's pretty powerful for a jazz group. The shows they played in SF had an Indian violin player who was awesome, and the piano player was outstanding as well but the guitar player didn't do much of anything, so yeah it seems to me that if it was just Holland, Zakir, Potter & the piano player and with or without the violinist there would be more room in the sound for the players to roam around in.
IMO when Zakir Hussain is on the stage there isn't a need for a drummer.
And E, it's a shame you've never seen The Bad Plus. They're great and have always taken a different approach to jazz. I'm going to miss them.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: .44 Smokeless
http://www.sfgate.com/music
http://www.sfgate.com/music/article/Bad-Plus-thrills-fans-at-SFJazz-Cent...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Patrick H.
Thanks Lance for the review
Thanks Lance for the review of CrossCurrents. My friend was not very descriptive about the 4 shows except they were good and could not really tell how the shows really were...your write ups seems accurate.
Here is a video of the Bad Plus from Wed this week in boulder...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRKCZm1zyE