1985/86 GD Sound Systems (Warning:Tech-talk articles)

Link to the Mix article or frankly,  I don't believe you. Your credibility is suspect with me. (Post your resume in a non-garbled format and I might take your digital recording credentials seriously.)

For instance, according to the article above, and contrary to what you seem to assert, the band was making digital stereo recordings using a Sony PCM  / video combo well before Dec 1986. 

[Bluelight: 12/30/86 Recording Notes: These NYE '86 shows were recorded onto digital VHS via a Sony Pro D- VHS recorder with funny knobs. lol  These were the first digital recordings done by that band, in that town.]

And who is "we" that you often refer to when making your videos? Are two people posting under one name?

Without proof, you are just another bunch of words on a black screen spouting off. (Hey, I carved Mt Rushmore! No really, I did.) You are not a credible source of facts.

For example, you never answered the technical question (again)... what did you mean when you said that show was the first one recorded digitally? Was there more to that statement that you meant to clarify? Do you mean multitrack, rather than stereo?  You just seem to make facts up without any corroboration. Why should I believe what you say?

And why should anyone take you seriously if you can't even list the jobs you held  in your field?

If you were really an interviewee or published writer in the public domain I'd guess you would be proud of your work. If so many people have read your words already, why not turn some Zoners on to your wordsmithing? What are you hiding?

Or are you just an internet discussion board persona "playing" a sound guy on a Phil Lesh fan website?

And you never answered the question (again) who is the "we" you refer to when making your videos? Are you two people posting under one handle?

See that's why people probably don't like engaging with you...you are too evasive and boastful at the same time -- I just can't take you seriously...sorry.

It was pretty much just a yes or no question. I don't know what that screenshot means. Social media and You Tube videos are not my forte, so you are going to have to break it down into something a civilian will understand. What is RBDO? And how does this clarify things? Who is the "we" you refer to when making your videos? Can you please use words and complete sentences to just answer the question?

And you never answered the other question about your statement about when the Dead first recorded digitally. The RFK article seems to contradict you. Which makes you look like you misspoke, were mistaken, or just making things up out of thin air.

(PS I don't do personal correspondence on the Zone, sorry.)  But why can't everyone on the one read an old article you wrote or an interview you were in? Are you embarrassed that you were published?

I assume if it really got published it's already in the public domain, so why not just post it like anyone else could? 

So now you are changing the topic to  "define video and movie."  It figures.

Oh well, until you answer the few simple questions I have already posed in this public forum, I can no longer converse with you. I don't know if you are a real person or not, but you are not a credible source of information about digital recording until you provide verifiable references to your credentials and assertations.

Too bad, I thought I might learn something from a real professional sound engineer about emerging technologies. Turns out you are just another bullshit artist on the Zone.

Please take the topic back to 1985 and 1986 Grateful Dead sound systems.

<I remember seeing a guy at Oxford Speedway 1988 with a BetaMax machine recording the audio. He said it was the best DAT technology at the time. he had a battery pack for power source>

You did. It was most likely Digital Jeff. An early adopter of both digital and video recording.

Some serious low end:

https://archive.org/details/gd1988-07-03.140675.FOB.Neumann.Silberman.Am...

A few years before I helped him schlep all that stuff in shows.... a PCM, a video recorder, battery packs, mics, stands, cables, more batteries, and then we added a video camera and video recorder,,, and more batteries (so I'n not all that unfamiliar with digital recording in the early/mid 80's.)

Here's a noteworthy 83 digital recording Digital Jeff made (transferred by Miller).  My shoulders ache just thinking of all the gear required.

Grateful Dead Live at Hartford Civic Center on 1983-10-15

https://archive.org/details/gd1983-10-15.fob.senn441.silberman.miller.93...

I'll try my best to be more incoherent. [More mead, please.]

I was not a hard-core taper, but some of the people around me were. I definitely benefited from their hard work, especially right after the shows on the drive home or in some hotel room.

I mainly stuck to taping bar shows in the SF Bay area, mostly with discrete mics  (Zero, Dinosaurs, Harvey Mandel, NIck Gravenites, etc.). Man, I wish I still had some of those tapes.

I did make real cool dancing bear / dancing skeleton  "rainbow" stickers -- probably the first GD holographic foil ones. That's more my claim to "fame".

I still have the D-5. Aside from some missing screws and a lot of dust, I think it still works.

I stopped taping after I accidently dropped my D-6 on the parking lot pavement during set break at a real good Kimock and Friends show in Fairfax, sometime in the mid 90s.

I never got it fixed.

If I recall correctly, Jeff initially used Sennheiser 441's > PCM (Technics SV-100 14bit) before he started using the Neumann U89s. Supposedly one of his 83 digital tapes made it into the GD vault as an official part of the collection.

Yes, he would occasionally do crazy experimental things like spread the mics real far apart -- which was quite the feat, as we (his friends/accomplices) had to explain to a Philly floor crowd not to mess with the wire on the floor (it took a lot of friends). While not getting busted by the FOB (in front of board) tape police.

That Philly tape was done with Rob Eaton:  

https://archive.org/details/gd1984-04-21.u87.eaton-silberman.10035.sbeok...

(I don't see how anyone could make it sound better than the original digital recording by upsampling or whatever hocus pocus "someone" won't take the time to explain, but I'm all ears.)

Pardon me to go off-topic a bit, but here is a MINI MOVIE worth watching (a mini movie is defined by me as old video footage combined with a non-original sound source to provide hours of viewing pleasure while eating popcorn and milkduds).

Grateful Dead Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia, MD --  6/27/84 1st Set and Start of 2nd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYkqSmlPpYc

I've told this story in more detail on the Zone several times before (hey gimme a break if you've heard it -- it was my apex as a taper!).

I was the cameraman for this video and shot most of it along with Digital Jeff using all his gear. Merriweather was our local venue so we went for it -- dead center, probably a dozen rows back, towel over the camera, friends around to provide lookout. The funny story is that during the second set you can see Robbie Taylor spot us from backstage --- they came to get us and tried to take the tapes, but we did a quick handoff and gave them a blank.

It takes a little while to get settled in and focused correctly, but the Jackstraw has some of the best Phil moments I've personally seen on video. It was fairly widely circulated, so you probably have seen it before somewhere.

(if I knew a Zoner who was a credible and personable video sound engineer using state-of-the-art technology I might send them a first gen copy to re-release on YouTube, but I've never known someone like that around here).

> it was a very big deal that John Cutler recorded those shows onto 2 channel DAT<

Source? Reference?  How d you know that? Or are you just making up more stuff to sound impressive? Why should we just believe whatever you say? 

 If you bother to read it, the article about RFK clearly stated they were digitally recording on site using PCM in 86.

This is a tech talk thread based in reality and you are not adding anything to the discussion.

You never provided those articles, credentials, or interviews. And you never answered any of the previous questions, so your are in the "bullshit artist basket" around here. Until you do, post your fake tech news in your own hundred threads.

What is that, some beat up sound consoles? How does that relate? Are these the Dead's concert consoles that the article describes? Stay on topic, please.

So are you saying that you are Joe Gastwirt? or are you just posting a picture of a random CD? Or impersonating someone else? Why do you have to be so evasive?

How do I know that you are not some 15 year old gamer kid with access to his uncle's memorabilia shoebox, who thinks it's cool to send spam to strangers on a message board he's emotionally attached to after playing ISP detective all night? 

THE Joe Gastwirt is a man. He can answers questions posed respectfully on a message board. You sir, are no Joe Gastwirt.

Wait - this is not a bash Bluelight thread. This is an intelligent thread about the Dead's sound system in the mid 80's with ancillary taper content.

If Blue (or Joe) would answer a question in a manner becoming an adult, I would welcome his input.

(Blue, why can't you just write: In answer to your question, my name is Joe G and I'm a former sound engineer. I worked on many popular CDs during the 80, such as..... I'm currently making enchanting digital collages using drug band music and old movie footage...blah, blah.... I'd like to politely explain the technology I'm exploring.....Or some such straightforward nonsense.. What's with the pics and gibberish? Why are you so evasive? Why do you write like a 4th grader on a BlackBerry with missing keys? Did you not go to Community College and learn to write coherently?  How did you get to be a sound engineer if you can't even post complete sentences on a message board?)

But no...he just wants to bullshit the Zone and make threats.

{Joe, if you are a real person caring for an ailing parent I know it's a stressful and lonely and sad job, I've been there..... but please man, keep it together. Maybe find another hobby that doesn't involve a computer. Sleep more. Less drugs. Exercise. Go meet some real 3D people that don't care about music.}

<When you notice a student is more intelligent then you, what is your standard reaction?>

I stuff him or her upside-down in a trashcan, of course. And have all the kids commence a tickle torture. There's nothing worse than a know it all.

All the kids understand that narcissistic, braggart, bullshitters - no matter how smart they are -- end up alone on the playground, whining for the principal. Why, what did your teacher do to you?

A question any sound engineer familiar with Tom Dowd should know:

On consoles, in the transition to faders from knobs, is it tru that the very first faders were purely mechanical... i.e., a string attached to a pulley that turned a rotary gear behind the face of the console? Or is that a myth? Can you answer this one coherently Blue, in a simple way, to us uneducated neophytes? Please include references or personal anecdotes (labeled as such). You will be graded on sentence structure, but we will let spelling slide for now.

Oh and Blue, if you really were a writer, why don't you know the difference between "than" and "then"? Serious question. Did your editors at Pro Sound and Mix actually pay someone like you who writes at the 4th grade level? I mean, really. How are we to believe you?

We never saw the articles you claim to have written, so until you post links, your claims are still highly suspect. And based on your lack of proper grammar (and pettiness), I still think you are a 15 year old kid who stole his uncle's laptop masquerading as a sound engineer. I'm stil waiting to see a resume or credentials. All day and all we've seen is a picture of a CD.

Anyway, I gotta go to bed -- enough Zoning for one day. Unusual mega-zoning for me..too hot to work outside today breaking rocks.... but Blue got plenty of attention, so it's all good.

Based on 8 seconds of detective work while I was relieving myself, my best guess is that Bluelight is that Kirley guy (or some other disgruntled stay at home bi-polar Zoner with severe OCD or a brain injury) who bought some poor schlub's handle or hacked his password in order to "kick down the doors" of the Zone by posting ridiculous crap every day in order just to annoy people and get attention. My buddy's audio analytics software shows these Bluelight videos have no higher resolution than an MTV clip from the 80's. No wonder no one can hear any upgrade -- it's all bullshit.

Who else but a Kirley-type would be so obsessed with being in every thread, crave "Likes," threaten "FIRE,"  use erratic capitalization and coloring, employ IP address revenge tactics, can't spell, post at weird hrs, and concoct bullshit lies that can easily be disproved by a quick Google search? Perhaps it's even a team effort at the anti-zone, as the multiple personality posting style indicates. Maybe they know someone who does live on Long Island and goes to shows, but that real person probably doesn't know anything about a Phil Lesh message board or is being paid to ignore all the other fake Bluelight posts. Who knows? The Zone does attract it's fair share of crazy 8-balls.

So Bluelight/Joe/Kirley dude(s) - In spite of the fact that you pollute every thread you step in I'm sympathetic to your cognitive disability, but I just don't have the energy to interact with you any more. It's boring. I'm putting you on "ignore" for awhile. Sorry. (Please don't send 10 pizzas to my house.)

Now back to the thread's original topic -- 80s Dead stuff.. Here's a "mini-movie" someone really made:

Documenting the Grateful Dead Scene: 1988-1990 (Short Version)

This film includes Grateful Dead fan interviews and concert footage from Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Buffalo. As a young filmmaker in 1988, I felt compelled to document the Grateful Dead scene for historic significance. Now, almost 30 years later, this documentary is more relevant than ever.

https://vimeo.com/227638938

*********************************************

My first thought was: I remember more long hair than that back then. Maybe there were more "hippies" in the Bay area.

Yes. I remastered Star Wars for the hard to find Myanmar-only release. Fun fact - We had to insert a special soundtrack for the generals that included Brittany Spear's voice in place of Chewbacca.

And as you know, I consult on the side for a top-secret government agency who is engaged in watching the Zone (and other db message boards) for malcontents. That guy Duke recruited me a long time ago. (He was my supervisor before he made it big in music management.) Don't fault me for picking up a little cash on the side for such easy work.

(Shhhh - Joe thinks I'm teacher in Colorado or a "stone sculptor" in Sonoma County --  Don't blow my cover.)

<he isn't a disgruntled former zoner>

If true, I apologize to all the disgruntled former Zoners. No harm intended -- you were entertaining during your time in the sun.  I miss you all.... somewhat....not much, really.

******************************************************************************

Here is a bit of nostalgia dated 1995, but it directly relates to 80s taping (photo by J. Blakesberg)

The Live Taper's Survival Guide v1.0

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~./gdead/taping-guide/live-taping.html

Here's an excerpt: Tips (before showtime):

• bone up on your flipping skills (especially in 'concert mental state')!
• bone up on your setup and break-down skills (in 'concert metal state')
• bring a flashlight.
• bring extra batteries for everything.
• bring extra tapes.
• bring a pen and paper for the setlist.
• get a taper's ticket (if going to a Dead or Phish show ;-).
• if you're going outside: bring RAIN gear, bring a blanket (claim your space!) and a chair, etc...
• bring food, drinks, etc. (M&M's make friends, beer makes lasting friends!) Caution: may require smuggling.

Tips (showtime):

• NO TALKING during the show!
• DO be polite. Everyone in front of you in the chain is your best friend, and the guy with the mics is your very best friend!
• DON'T get in the way of people setting up their gear -- if you're patching, you'll have comparatively little to deal with. This often includes not asking 'dumb' questions -- no question is dumb, but bothering people who are trying to work IS. Ask 'dumb' questions during the setbreak.
• DON'T get in the way of people during the show who have to tend to their gear, flip tapes, replace batteries, etc. This is more of a problem indoors.

It's part of "Guide to Cassette Decks and Tape Trading"  a fun read --  https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~./gdead/taping-guide/

***************************************************************************************************************

I have to go teach class now..school started this week. Maybe I'll teach some of these kids that are smarter than me about 80s Dead stuff, as this thread has diverted from it's original intention.

I am proud to have made your acquaintance in 3D....(and our other new Zoner friends, good folks)......glad you had a safe and adventurous get-a-way.

We had fun.

See ya next year!

Hey, we're in there somewhere...

Well Joe, this is a major step...

You had the patience to try to explain things in a coherent fashion and not talk down to us mere earthlings (more or less). You even used spell check.

What you need now is some marketing advice -- Ditch the term "Mini Movie". When they hear the term movie, most people think characters, plot, theaters, etc. Cinematic productions shot onto photo-sensitive emulsions -- though I know the tech gets fuzzy as most everything is digitized nowadays.

I suggest the name "Digis" - soft g like in digital.

If you wwant to enhance the name further, you can call them - "Ultra Definition Digis".

Couple of questions -- bear with me a moment as I haven't had my coffee yet ---

How is it possible to upsample things beyond the resolution of the source material? If you do that, aren't you introducing manmade / artificial  artifacts from the algorithmic enhancements (similar to the sharpen filter in Photoshop)? Won't that make your recording "different" than the original master? 

Where do you acquire your Dead-related audio source material?

Why stick with You Tube? Shouldn't you post on a platform that can best demonstrate the capacities of your process?

Are you Bluelight  that posts on Gearslutz Pro Audio Community? If so, you certainly have a different persona over there.

Personally, I like all this high res stuff because as my eyes and ears get worse, the audio / video inputs get clearer -- so it all evens out to watching a good Sony TV in 1985.

Wouldn't it be helpful to tell people something like "To see the high resolution, you need to have a HD cable feed", like Comcast is rolling out in certain select cities? And list those cities, rather than treat your audience as idiots? How would we know that otherwise? I actually watched your You Tube stuff on a pro system using a HD delivery system when I was on the East coast and it might be me, but I couldn't tell this was a "better" 3 Stooges. We played the audio loud and also frankly, I didn't notice better separation or imaging. Don't get me wrong... I'm a fan of clarity -- but maybe provide some instructions with your material.

Again from a marketing perspective -- why don't you think this will bomb like HDCD did? Not many people bought them besides a handful of audiophiles. Do you even have a market for this stuff with kids nowadays just watching stuff on phones using wireless gear?

Perhaps you would be better off pitching your stuff to the virtual reality community... I see that as a viable marketing opportunity. Just imagine Ultra Definition Digi Porn. It's where the real money is. That and the gaming community. Rock and Roll fans are not a large slice of the pie.

Look, we are diverging from the topic of this thread, but since this is the first time I've seen you act human in quite a while, and since it is "my" thread,  I'll go out on a limb and take the chance that you aren't bullshitting me --- here's some more advice from one who knows:

There are no rules for being a caretaker for an elderly parent. You do the best you can everyday to help him or her retain his or her dignity. That's the objective.

It's hard on the caretaker, especially if you are the sole family member. Who would evr have thought you's be shaving your dad, combing his hair, and changing his clothing? Muchless, take care of all the associated paperwork, bills, insurance forms, more bills, more insurance forms...... etc.? It sucks. Stay as organized as possible and write everything down in a central notebook -- especially the medical related stuff -- you will probably have to come back to it at some point and you need to remember specifics. Prepare for guardianship and DNR issues.

Caretakers need a break every once in a while -- it's easy to be overwhelmed. Try and stick to distractions that don't have adverse consequences. Don't be afraid to utilize community recourses like social workers and hospice workers.

Once a parent passes, things can get sticky. The more estate planning you can do now, the better. 

Be nice to people -- you will need their support in the future.

Joe - Stay focused in your explanations and keep it simple and stay humble -- I see you wandering a bit --

Another idea so everyone can appreciate your work - start ONE new thread called Bluelight's Ultra Definition Digis and just post instructions, technical explanations, and ALL your stuff in there. Otherwise it looks like you are spamming the board. We have low tolerance for that. This can be the "beta" site that will be the basis for the website you wil eventually need. We can be your guinea pigs but you need to treat your audience with respect. Deadheads are notorious early adopters and can spread good information fast, but don't fuck with Zoners. We are everywhere. One or two phone calls to the right college buddy and you will be selling hot dogs outside the Capitol Thr instead of boozin it up with Trixie at a booth at the next CES.

The guys that made it happen in the 80s

L->R: Don Pearson (Ultra Sound); front row: Mike Brady (Ultra Sound), Howard Danchik (Ultra Sound), Geoff Peters (Ultra Sound), Danny English (Morpheus Lights); back row: Clark Scott (Ultra Sound), Bernie Granat (Ultra Sound), Fred White (Bill Graham Presents), Morpheus Lights staff

(Pre Internet, one of the ways we got innie info was from one of the gals dating one of these guys. (Soundboard tapes were "borrowed", copied, and returned in a matter of hours).

Here's a decent Gans interview with Pearson and Phil dated 1993, but it relates to the thread topic:

https://gopherproxy.meulie.net/nemesis.cs.berkeley.edu/00/interviews/Don...

Excerpt - 

Gans:  Since you're on the line, let's talk about the onstage monitor 
system. You've been seen going over to the mixer and mixing your own 
sound! 

Lesh:  Oh yes, this is my dream. I love to mix my own sound. It's 
faster that way for me. 

Gans:  So there's a console right there and you can just walk over and 
turn up somebody if you want to hear them a little better, and stuff 
like that? 

Lesh:  Yes, exactly. Actually, I can pan and EQ and do all that other 
good stuff, too. 

Gans:  So each of you has a stereo mix in your earpieces? 

Lesh:  Yes, that's correct. 

Pearson:  Each band member has the ability to adjust 30 different 
things in their ears. ....

<<You crack me up.>>

Joe – Thanks. I’m here mainly to amuse you (as you often seem too stubborn to Zone rationally -- you still left a bunch of questions unanswered).  One of the only reasons I’m even dealing with you is I’m kinda use to working with crazy scientist/engineer/artist types (very often lacking normal social skills – seemingly on the Asperger’s spectrum, maybe?)  in my work in holography.

I just wanted to mention that he “sub-caption” of one holography-related business I managed was “technology as art.” Before plasma balls became available at the local mall.  I’m thinking you, in fact, might be better off marketing yourself as an artist, rather than a sound engineer -- if you ever start generating your own content. I suppose you could call yourself an audio-visual “collage-ist.” Then, instead of slaving away on music videos for 21st century MTV, you could be an artist yourself.  Trust me, the chicks dig artists and you can act insane and be up all night and no one cars.This is the path for you.

Also I’m also thinking your “Ultra Definition Digis” could be marketed to nursing homes packed with sedated baby boomers! They could rock out to their favorite bands in front of giant hi-res TVs out while being soothed by the gentle imagery. Perhaps the enhanced soundtrack could be beamed directly into their hearing aids.

Oh and Joe (is your name really Joe?) - Another reason I’m taking the time to chat is that I’m fairly well-versed in high resolution imagery, and you seem to dabble in the subject. Well, I'm sorry to break it to ya but, in that field you are like a little kid selling pickles at the airport. Minor league. It’s hard to compare video resolution with other visual technologies, but you basically work in the low res – and it’s only 2D.  For sake of comparison, in my field we can hit 10,000 lines / mm and generate 3D images. I mostly measure resolution in wavelengths of  light, not  "gigantic" pixels. So I have to chuckle when you question my credentials or academic achievements in this rather narrow field. So fuck you -- when you can discuss this kind of stuff, we'll talk:

"We have designed and built a new high-resolution holographic display system that uses dense ray sampling and integral imaging sensing techniques. With our system, in which we use the integral imaging system technique to achieve high spatial resolution, we first capture multi-perspective 2D images for each object in focus. We then use an image-based rendering technique to interpolate and resample at high density the recorded rays as a set of projection images on planes near the object (dense ray sampling planes). In the next step, we multiply the projected images by a random phase distribution and transform them into a complex amplitude distribution using a Fourier transform that is based on angular spectrum theory. We then calculate the light propagation from the dense ray sampling planes to the CGH plane via 2D Fresnel diffraction. We generate the final holograms as an interference between the reference beam and the wavefront from the dense ray sampling planes."

Back to gear and tech talk..... here's a couple nice articles with some cool pics that I haven't seen before:

The Gear of The Grateful Dead

      https://reverb.com/news/the-gear-of-the-grateful-dead

Phil Lesh Tone & Sound – Bass Guitar Gear Guide

      https://jam.buzz/extra/phil-lesh-gear-guide/

Phil's pedalboard from ‘Fare Thee Well’ 

Hi Highnote!  Hi Jaz - no pictures unless you Photoshop out all my weird ear hairs (why does the human body even grow those)? 

Miss you guys already. But It's Rosh Hashana and I have to bow out of this thread for a bit and go tribal and feed the relatives.

Everyone, I mean everyone.... have a healthy, happy New Year, whether you believe the Earth has only circled the sun 5778 some times or not.

Hug your kid, pinch your spouse, and steal a Chiclet from Gramma's purse.

Also, while I'm gone please post some interesting stuff about gear, sound systems, and related tech stuff so we can keep this thread going.

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue77/vintage_mcintosh_experience.htm:

... description of their Los Angeles 'pink house' practice system in 1966: "The equipment was set up in the living room: the "lead sled" of Mac amps (four McIntosh 240 stereo tube amps running mono, one for each electric instrument—two guitars, bass, and keyboard—bolted onto a single sheet of two-inch plywood), the Altec "Voice of the Theater" speakers (huge woofer and horn combo speakers, four in all, one for each amp), and all the drums and instruments. The volume level of this gear was enough to bulge out the sides of the house when we cranked."