President Trump on Wednesday said he thinks Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) would be a "fine choice" for presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden's running mate.
"I think she’d be a fine choice. Kamala Harris. A fine choice," Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a trip to Texas.
daylight, weren't you pushing hydrosychlroriquine a few months back?
not at all, the only thing i was pushing was the idea that we should be hopeful about possible covid treatments until peer reviewed human trails deem it effective or not effective, and not discount and deride something for the sole reason that donald trump and other conservative figures have, for some strange reason, latched onto hydroxycholroquine as some kind of strange political statement. which i still stand by 100%. as time goes on, its looking more and more like hydroxycholorquine is not going to be a good treatment for covid, but at the time the discussion was really front and center, there was absolutely no solid evidence either way, and a very large group of citizens, media personalities and politicians who allow the desire to criticize trump to be prioritized over all else, piled on to the issue by going beyond the basic common sense criticism that trump and other conservatives should not be pushing an untested treatment, and went on to claiming it was obviously not effective - a claim that at the time, had no solid evidence to back it up. some signs and research were beginning to appear that indicated it was not effective and may cause heart related side effects - but at the time the evidence against it was no more sound than the evidence in favor of it, and i found it wildly hypocritical to criticize someone for making recommendations based on very early, tentative research that was in no way conclusive, and then immediately turned around and used the same kind of early, tentative, inconclusive research to claim that it was for sure not going to be effective and would be dangerous.
one of the studies frequently referenced in discussions here was the lancet study that not only claimed it was not effective, but claimed patients treated with it actually had a higher mortality rate. as i pointed out on this forum at the time, the statistics were wildly unreliable, and there were glaringly obvious problems with the data...surprise surprise, that study was retracted - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-h...
The medical journal The Lancet on Thursday retracted a large study on the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 because of potential flaws in the research data. The study, published two weeks ago, found no benefit to the drug — and suggested its use may even increase the risk of death.
Thursday's retraction doesn't mean that the drug is helpful — or harmful — with respect to the coronavirus. Rather, the study authors were unable to confirm that the data set was accurate.
my point has never been that hydroxycholoroquine is good or bad, and in fact many times prior to this ive said that i doubt it will be found to be particularly effective and the side effects involving the heart are concerning. my point has always been that many in the media, many politicians, and certainly everyone on viva who posted in the chloroquine thread in its earlier days claiming with certainty that it was not effective and dangerous, is guilty of doing the same thing trump was guilty of in the first place - using shaky and inconclusive data to reinforce a belief they had without any kind of knowledge about virology, pharmacology, or medicine in general that would inform their opinion. these folks instead used this inconclusive data to reinforce a belief they held simply because they wanted to believe the opposite of whatever donald trump was saying at the time - informed not by any actual knowledge of medicine but rather by reactionary, sensationalist talking heads on 24 hour news sites and garbage political blogs that prey upon your easily manipulated anger in exchange for clicks and neilsen ratings.
My guess is it will certainly not be Warren. Rice, Harris, or Demings is my guess. We don't seem to be hearing Lujan Grisham's name anymore. But that may just be the media.
i guess "nauseating" is a matter of opinion, but all of the frequently discussed candidates for VP have either a pro war voting/policy record or a pro big business/financial deregulation voting/policy record - in many cases both. if you disagree id be very open to hearing any parts of the candidates political records i may have missed - i was actually pretty surprised at harris's voting record on foreign policy issues - seems like she is trying to ratchet back the imperialist machine...unlike senator feinstein who last month voted against withdrawing our troops from an almost 20 year long campaign of terrorism with no real goals or objectives. i have other issues w harris but that is one of the most important ones...its a pretty low bar to just be less horrifingly shitty than diane feinstein but ll give harris some credit there...i guess. her voting and records in the senate honestly are not that bad but imo the last thing this country needs right now is another pro war on drugs/pro police state prosecutor like harris in the white house.
you're probably right which might be a bummer. however, she is seasoned, exudes leadership, poise and will have a great ability to heal our standing with the international community. she would be able to lead behind the scenes while joe floats further into early onset dementia as his term goes on.
...I must be so terribly stupid, or a white supremacist as I didn't know it was illegal nor a racist thing to say that at the time, mea culpa going forward no all lives matter ( but love matters)
two screamers on the opposite side of the spectrum (" I'm right so you are horribly wrong, and a moron")
thanks daylight, politics do suck, compromises and negations are sadly expected and the norm, not that that is OK, at all
woz -- you don't really have a good track record here -- i mean, between telling us nelson would never recover, to openly supporting and telling others to support a racist oligarch and their vanity presidential run.
now that shit is hilarious as well as sad -- hilarious you'll never see that.
timpane, you're right which is disappointing for sure. her family's net worth looks to be between $50 - $100M. also, her son sure seems like a douchebag, too. still think she would do a great job.
your bitter bernie schtick is tired and is doing nothing to move the needle in a positive direction. Joe is the best we got and while flawed, he's not a bad man. Also, googled what you said and those are Russian talking points. hahaha smh smh
it's all about owning the libs for maga and it's all about owning the so called "centrists" by the far left. 2 sides of the same coin sprinkled with a little russian disinformation...
No clue what you're talking bout. You old burnt out druggies are so sensitive nowadays. You used to follow round a drugband fest and take illicit unknowns substances from strangers. Maybe you're not the greatest judges of political news. Night night little Jr
there have been recent whispers of hillary back in the mix and a possible vp choice. i'd cry tears of joy and run through the streets naked if that happened.
JR - what about the political records of both hillary clinton and susan rice make them attractive to you? what sort of specific policies or pieces of legislation have they written or supported that you like? what kind of foreign policy decisions have they made that lead you to wanting them in a strong leadership position in the white house? what are your favorite specific economic policies that have been championed by either rice or hillary?
i totally get supporting them and/or biden as a strong national figurehead, and supporting them in a "lesser of two evils" scenario against trump, but im curious about what specific policies and parts of their recent legislative and/or political history makes them attractive to you in a way that seems to go pretty far beyond simply supporting them in a "lesser of two evils" situation against trump.
not that he or what's his face gives a f what I think
Guess Im just a dumb old burn out- ( but never went on tour and drugs a tiny part of my history >> I Must not be qualified to have opinions or able to think, be intelligent, be objective, or have sound judgement
>>wait -- are we over hating on the racist politicians now? <<
no.
In my mind basically any politician running for a national office, without an actionable and comprehensive plan to dismantle the private prison industry is at minimum a racist enabler. Id like to hear (any of) them even speak intelligently about, or even acknowledge its existence actually.
it's literally the root.
Obama actually (barely, but more importantly - consciously) started this process. Why is joe not waving the roadmap at us?
>>>"they" are prolly gonna stand 8-10+ hrs risking their lives for another old white dude, during a global pandemic,
Speaking from Georgia, we decided today we'd do early voting since our mail-in ballots weren't counted in the last election. So that's the risk we will have to take. Not excited by it but .........
hell yes, and this is big chunk of why yesterday>>> JERRY day MARS HOTEL crushing the hell out of it ( trust me or not, but do give ot a try, what do you have to lose??)
there have been recent whispers of hillary back in the mix and a possible vp choice. i'd cry tears of joy and run through the streets naked if that happened. <<<
Jr, that would be Whoopie Goldberg talking the whisper on the view.
Rumor has it that Jerry did want to argue politics on a dbmb.
Phil was pissed off. According to notes held from the (now infamous) db meeting, Phil said the following:
"Jerry I luv U. That said, if U want to discuss politics, get your own (explitive) dbmb."
It didn’t matter, if we learned anything the last few years it’s that VPs are useless. Mike Pence is so passive I forget he exists. The man is basically the he human version of TV static.
Democrats are not robber baron supporters....Jesus, sometimes these infantile fantasies about the Dems being the good guys are really just sad.
Susan Rice's net worth was declared in 2016 as being between 15 and 28 million dollars. The Center for Responsive Politics estimated in 2009 that she's worth between 23.5 and 43.5 million. She has DEEP ties to the Keysone XL Pipeline people. When she was being vetted for Secretary of State she disclosed 600k in investments in that company alone (TrasCanada). Further, her investment portfolio ranges from fossil fuels to large financial institutions.
So wash your fucking mouth out about Dems not being robber barons, They ARE the robber barons. You may like them better than the Repubs because they don't say mean things on the TV set and because Obama is smooth and talks swell. But at least own up to the fact that by voting for the dems you're voting for the exact same pack of robber barons as the other team. Shit, cross-check their portfolios, see their common investments. Then maybe you'll stop thinking of the dems as such fairy tale folk heroes and realize that this game is about the mega-wealthy (worth 28 million dollars from investment in oil industries) versus the rest of us.
Her résumé from the corporate and government-adjacent world, however, is much lengthier. In the praiseworthy words of The Wall Street Journal, Rice “has more corporate experience than others on Biden running mate list.” Indeed, she currently sits on the board of directors of Netflix, where she’s racked up stock options on more than 5,200 shares of the company, currently worth $2 million alone (according to an August 5 filing, she’s divested about one-quarter of those holdings, netting some $300,000). That, along with a stint at American University as a visiting research fellow, MAKES UP THE BULK OF HER POST-OBAMA professional activity.
The lack of transparency in Rice’s work at Intellibridge may be standard for that particular foreign-consulting industry, but that’s not a sufficient explanation for someone striving to be vice president. And given that the one client of hers from that time that we know is someone widely referred to as a “benevolent dictator” and “darling tyrant” who’s been in power since the mid-1990s, there’s plenty of cause for alarm.
Rice appears to be the beneficiary of substantial family money.
She and her husband were also invested in Enbridge, the company behind the discharge of more than a million gallons of toxic tar sands oil into Michigan’s Kalamazoo River in 2010 , the largest inland oil spill in American history, and BP, of 2010’s Deepwater Horizon spill, the largest offshore oil spill in history, period.
Y'all need to do your research and pop the bubble of your cute little fantasies about the dems. If you for one second believe that Susan Rice has the interests of the common man and woman in mind, then I got a bridge to sell you. She was the wealthiest member of Obama's cabinet, with a third of her portfolio at the time tied to big oil. Lol. Yeah, I'm sure people like her when they go to the Members of the Board meetings at their corporations, they probably sit far away from the Republican members and don't arrange any deals with them. Yup. That's how money works...
But yeah, vote for the lesser of two evils. Clearly, the team with the multi-millionaires invested in the oil industry has your interests at heart. Wait, which team was that again?
I'll make a prediction: the Socialists and Neo-Communists won't like Biden's pick. It'll almost be like they think Biden owes it to them to pick someone on the far left.
Javs, every election is a choice of the lesser of two evils. It's been that way forever. Nothing is all good or all evil, so a choice between two evils is also a choice between the better of two goods. Everyone wants to vote for a better version of themselves, but we don't get that opportunity. I'm voting for Biden no matter who he chooses, unless it's tRump.
My prediction: a corporatist will win the election.
One of them is smarter, more sane, and less evil. I'm gonna vote for that guy.
Lol. Keep on telling yourself whatever you need to to get you through the vote, but the VP candidate that's looking likely to win is an oil millionaire married to the millionaire heir of a lumber company. If you for a second think either of these people is interested in social justice, environmental justice or ending international conflicts, then lol. That's all I got for you is lol.
If you are somehow convinced that a person like this will push policies that are different than Trumps, then I've got another lol for you...
Just please don't sit there and pontificate about how different the dems and the repubs are when you're voting for a oil and lumber millionaire to be your VP.
How's the Communist revolution going, Javs? Not so well?
You really think that you have all the answers, don't you? If you don't think that Biden will be better than Trump, you're missing something big. But of course you are. You don't live here and see it in real life, every day. Backtrack all you want, but you said that we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Disgusting.
Maybe you should write a new Communist Manifesto while on a little jaunt to Tokyo, or maybe to New York to catch a Broadway show and see the sights.
So we R now judging politicians by their bankrolls.
John Kennedy came from a family with money.
From the Inaugural Address of President John F. Kennedy
Washington, D.C. January 20, 1961
We observe today not a victory of party but a celebration of freedom--symbolizing an end as well as a beginning--signifying renewal as well as change... So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.
Though i guess since he had money we shouldn't have listened to him
Lol, BK, you're such a cry baby. For a while I thought you were actually capable of discussing opposing points of view but you're so locked in your dogma that anytime I contradict your ideas your cognitive dissonance goes into over drive and you get all worked up.
I don't need to back track, go read my post, dummy. I never said you deserve it, I said it might be what's best for the country in the long run and I stand by it. Not by virtue of what Trump can do, but by virtue of him destroying and running amok and thereby potentially causing the American populace to slightly wake up from it's two-car garage air-conditioned stupor.
Maybe you should tell us some more about what a progressive you are because you voted Bernie in Burlington as you're casting your vote for an oil and lumber baron. You can waltz through your organic garden and drive your outback to your local city council meeting while telling everyone how an oil and lumber baron are the way to vote.
And the more you little ninnies keep on pointing out that I'm Chilean, the more I'm going to point out the weaknesses in your argument. It's cute that you all, alleged liberals and whatnot, need to resort to your basic down-to-Earth "goddam foreigner" argument to talk to me. Meanwhile, try denying that your candidate has massive economic links to the same people on the other side of the aisle he and his partner are allegedly opposing? Go ahead, I'll wait. Give me a list of all the Boards of Directors that Rice sits on, and find one that doesn't have Republican financial interests in it. I'll wait.
There is no discussion with you. You're a hippy-crite with all the answers. The only one crying here is you. Jesus, you live in the top 10% of your society and spout Communism. Nice.
And if you had any reading comprehension skills you would be able to point out where I've ever spouted communism. All I'm trying to say is that there is a .001% that hoodwinked you into believing they were working for your benefit, and you like a good little lemming to the voting booth bought it hook, line and sinker.
>> By today's standards of the Democratic party, Nixon would have been a perfect candidate for you all, so yeah Dave, maybe you would have voted for him.
Jav's so I guess back in 1960 U would have supported Nixon. He had a lot less money then his opponent.
BK, you really do do the same sad strategy over and over, you realize? You go in with your sarcastic remarks, your little low jabs, you snidely misconstrue what people say, and then when it turns on you you cry about how everyone picks on you. Ever wonder why you always end up in that spot? Couldn't have anything to do with you, could it?
Write an email to Judit if you want to cry some more about it. She might care.
> Just please don't sit there and pontificate about how different the dems and the repubs are when you're voting for a oil and lumber millionaire to be your VP.
So the Democrats R the same as the Trumpers.
Sure, that makes sense.
It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
>>> Lol, BK, you're such a cry baby. For a while I thought you were actually capable of discussing opposing points of view but you're so locked in your dogma that anytime I contradict your ideas your cognitive dissonance goes into over drive and you get all worked up.
I don't need to back track, go read my post, dummy. I never said you deserve it, I said it might be what's best for the country in the long run and I stand by it. <<<
here's what you said bro...
Javs Corner on Sunday, July 19, 2020 – 10:11 am
The best thing that can happen to the US at this point in time is another Donald presidency. Sadly, you all haven't been pushed to the extreme enough to really understand what's important in a government.
After I posted several times, BK, without any personal attacks, your first post was:
"How's the Communist revolution going, Javs? Not so well?
You really think that you have all the answers, don't you? If you don't think that Biden will be better than Trump, you're missing something big. But of course you are. You don't live here and see it in real life, every day. Backtrack all you want, but you said that we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Disgusting.
Maybe you should write a new Communist Manifesto while on a little jaunt to Tokyo, or maybe to New York to catch a Broadway show and see the sights."
That's the very first thing you said to me. I had made several posts before that with not one personal attack against anybody. I may have called dem fantasies infantile and such, but I attacked no one and you came at me with this. You want to talk about getting personal? It's your only strategy, BK. This is how you started your day here. Did you address ANY of the points that I had made?
Fuck you, BK. Tell me that I talk smack to you. You're a passive aggressive whiner.
Thanks for the quote, THOD. Where in that did I say you deserve it? And who gives a fuck anyways? The fact that I'm an asshole makes you feel better about voting for a war-mongering oil baron?
>>> Thanks for the quote, THOD. Where in that did I say you deserve it? And who gives a fuck anyways? <<<
anybody who reads your quote, knows exactly what you mean.
Javs Corner on Sunday, July 19, 2020 – 10:11 am
The best thing that can happen to the US at this point in time is another Donald presidency. Sadly, you all haven't been pushed to the extreme enough to really understand what's important in a government.
Dangerous words. In the subjective grey area you and the masses can find your victim for the pyre. Now address the point, Tod?
What kind of policies do you suppose an oil and timber millionaire supports?
Do you think that she sits on Boards of Directors with members who are republican and have shared interests with her? How do you think that affects her political views?
So, let's see. She was a shareholder of TransCanada, holding 600k in investments there, during the time that TransCanada was attempting to build the Keystone XL Pipeline and suppress the rights of Native Americans. Given this fact:
What do you think that Susan Rice's views are on the rights of Native Americans? The rights of the government to overturn Indigenous rights and treaties for corporate benefit? The rights of heavy contaminating industries like big oil versus environmental priorities?
> What do you think that Susan Rice's views are on the rights of Native Americans?
United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
Susan Rice: "In response to the many calls from Native Americans throughout this country and in order to further U.S. policy on indigenous issues... The United States supports the Declaration (United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples)."
On April 20, 2010, at the United Nation’s Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, Ambassador Susan Rice announced that the U.S. would undertake a formal review of its position, in consultation with Indian tribes and others. The Administration held multiple consultation meetings with tribal leaders and other meetings with interested groups and individuals. The Administration received over 3,000 written submissions. An interagency team reviewed and considered all of the comments received and carefully considered the 46 articles contained in the Declaration.
On December 16, 2010, at the second White House Tribal Nations Conference, President Obama announced the United States’ support for the Declaration. The State Department also released a document to accompany President Obama’s announcement that provides a more detailed statement about US support and ongoing work in Indian Country.
So they said they supported a UN declaration, talked to some indian Elders in front of some cameras aaaaaand.....? Policy changes? Did she stop banking from the oil companies running over the rights of Native Americans? Yeah, right.
She has a huge hole in her resume working for a foreign consultancy. Buttigieg worked for the same one and was forced to release the list of his clients at the time, something she has not done. Do you think that her connections with key players in the oil industry could influence her perspective during her tenure as VP (a short 4 years in a long career of loyalty to big oil)? Do you think there is an ethical conflict there? The fact that after her time as VP she would return likely as a consultant for the same firm or one like it, do you think that her long term benefits might not come into play when she is helpign to shape policy?
You're a mess, Javs, but I understand. It must be hard for you to be a good Socialist, when you were college educated in the imperialist shithole called the United States. I'm guessing that you don't have any college loans to repay. And then you are able to take your family on international trips to NYC, the most expensive place to visit. Who even considers a last minute jaunt to Tokyo, except those with tons of disposable income?
So yeah, everyone else is the problem, and you sit comfortably in your ivory tower living a life that working stiffs like me never could.
I'm not the enemy. I buy Venezuelan gas as much as possible.
BK, again, reading comprehension, my friend. Try it some time.
If you can point to anywhere anytime that I've called the US a shit-hole, feel free to post it.
I feel like I've told you that my wife is a doctor, yes? And that I'm a teacher? So yeah, I'm jaunting off to New York on my disposable salary. Dumbass...
Lucky you. Do you make sure the airlines you fly, hotels you stay in, restaurants you eat in, clothes you buy are all from corporations that meet your Socialist standards? It seems to me that you feed the system a whole hell of a lot more than me, and then bitch about it.
Lol, the American white male talking to others about privilege. Haha. That's rich. As in yes, you are rich. You're entire life is based on raping the planet. AND you vote for the people who further those policies.
Better look closer at that spot. And sorry you can't afford to travel, Brian. Sounds like it's a sore spot for you.
Lol, thanks, Sensei. Did that pop up in your daily Hallmark greeting? Would you like to answer my questions from above as to how Susan Rice's economic context influences her policy push and potentiallly her tie breaking vote in the senate?
And if you want to lash out about my lifestyle (which for some reason you have notions about what my life should be like that are based on your own inability to read) and still NOT acknowledge your American lifestyle, then go ahead, but let me ask you: You commute to work (in non-pandemic times)? What kind of rig you got? You're in Vermont, I assume something that can handle snow. How many miles you put on it every year? How much mileage do you get? How many cars in your family? At least two, right? Both of you commute? You never travel? How many square feet is your house and how DO you heat it through that long cold Vermont winter?
Oh, and you saw a bunch of shows in your life, right? Travelled around the country in some giant steel gas guzzler eating fast food, smoking cheap smokes and staying in cheap hotels. Sounds like a lot of travelling. I wonder what the environmental footprint of that is? Shit, half the people on this board would throw any and all environmental considerations right out the window for the right show. God bless, 'murica!
I don't care about your lifestyle. I find your blatant hypocrisy humorous. I'm not the one spouting Socialist bullshit while living an upper middle class lifestyle.
BK, you're so full of it. If you think I'm a hypocrite it's because you have no clue what I'm saying. It's like the AOC fancy dress thing. Being a socialist doesn't mean you can't have nice things - it means that every last son of a bitch should pay their dues in taxes. Right now, you as an American are living off the fat of the planet and you ain't paying shit back and you call yourself a progressive while voting for war monger oil millionaires. I'm the hypocrite?
Yet you still visit the United States and willingly give your money to companies that feed American imperialism. If you really believed in what you were saying, you'd boycott all things American.
From this point forward I'm boycotting Chilean sea bass.
Javs, I never post on politics but after reading your posts I feel the need to ask if you are you a supporter of Don Exotic The Lyin King?
There are two choices The current Failure In Chief and Biden. Who do you think will be best for The USA and the world. I do not need a diatribe just a name if you are willing to share .
Javs doesn't understand Americans and the American political system anywhere near as much as he thinks he does. I'll cut him some slack on that, though. It reeks of hubris, but whatever.
The whole, "if you don't think like me you are wrong and part of the problem," thing is a bit totalitarian and problematic.
Javs doesn't understand Americans and the American political system anywhere near as much as he thinks he does.<<<
I don't think anybody understands Americans and the American political system, certainly not as much as they claim. I would include myself but I try to never make such a claim. It's a ball of confusion.
I do feel that this two party system has not yielded great results.
Isn't it pretty much the consensus that this is an Oligarchy?
But it's early in the life cycle of both human evolution and Merica.
^^^^^^DON"T CHEAT and see if you can score higher than a monkey (which means 33% since they are all 3 answer multiple choice). Very humbling for those "know it alls".
Is it a prerequisite that to be a bernie fanatic you also have to be an asshole? There are 3 here and all 3 are punk motherfuckers. Just sipping some non GMO tea and thinking....
I agree 2 Dank. His mental acuity is in some ways worse than Trump. There's a part that wonders if Joe even knows why he's running and why he thinks he's best suited to lead. I'm honestly not confident he could answer that question and give a succinct and impactful answer. Don't get me wrong i will go to the mat for Joe; but also know he's far from running at 100%.
Which is why this might be the most important VP pic in a generation.
Dear early morning Zoners, I tend to sleep through early morning and wonder, does posting in the early morning make it so people can't discuss, in this case, the problems with politicians, money, ideologies, upcoming elections, without resorting to putting people down, name calling, stupid ass distractions somewhat like what the current pres would use?
Yes, I know that you guys are smart, capable of looking at the things that are important, at how current questions will effect the future, and maybe way smarter than I am or anyone else is, but smarter doesn't mean everything.
So what I think I get is that Javs thinks that if the U.S.A. implodes because the present guy continues to destroy what we think we have it's not a bad thing because it will galvanize the force for better choices of politicians in the future. Meanwhile, many of us are looking at the current losses of life, jobs, housing, etc., thinking of not only the long-term but the short-term. I'm having trouble thinking that electing a corporate shill as V.P. will take us down a path of inextricable disaster. Perhaps to someone viewing from outside the U.S.A. it looks like we should experience the same upheavals and disastrous consequences others have had to deal with which will stimulate the rising of the phoenix, and it may, but I'm very attached to a relatively non-violent way of accomplishing change. Peaceful protests make sense to me.
I have quite a low personal standard of living. I'm okay with it as I have few desires outside my needs. I'm oldish. I have grandchildren. I was a Bernie supporter/voter. I haven't seen it demonstrated that Biden has dementia. I will vote for Biden.
Could you guys please make points in ways that elevate the discussion, give us new ways to think about things that you think matter, create dialogue? I want to continue to learn.
p.s. I've gotten no emails about the way you guys are talking to each other.
I respectfully reject Javs statement regarding Rice and "her policies". She will be VP and she helps execute Biden's policies, not hers.
Get Trump out and then we can look forward. Keep it simple.
I was writing about losses of housing, thinking of people who are losing jobs due to current events.
I just read an article about Biden's "risky racial remarks" which will possibly alienate young Black voters. Everyone needs to get their shit together.
Well Turts, seeing as how Javs isn't American, I'm not concerned that you think aim painting him as unAmerican.
Seeing as how the dude recites modern Socialist talking points, that he has posted links to a Socialist website, and be pretty much admitted to being a Socialist, it's not in bad form to call him one.
Funny how your panties get bunched over that, but not over the hundreds of "centrist" and "corporate Democrat" slurs, which are often false and used as nothing more than put-downs.
Now Turts, read above again. The level of vitriol from Javs to me is far beyond what I've said to him, often 3 posts in a row with multiple slams. It's the same old shit with you, playing your lame double standards. Wuss.
unless i am mistaken, you know he's not like from chile originally...so maybe cares or has an opinion.
and brother spare me....calling someone a centrist has nowhere near the long standing connotation of smearing, jailing and murdering people because of that stigma or label so you can shove that right back up where it came out.
the difference here is....it is a term that has been used in this country to alienate, denigrate, and divide the populace. the term centrist, historically has not.
So, you're explaining to me why it's wrong to call someone a Socialist, when they identify as a socialist, write socialist talking points and link to a Socialist website?
I'm honestly lol-ing. Is this the next level of virtue signaling, or whatever it is?
Wow. When I opened this thread, I had to scroll so far up to update that I was filled with the dread of having to read through it.
Then, after I read some of Javs BS, and the BS answering him, I was able to just scroll passed all the bullshit. Turns out it was a short thread afterall.
I used to respect Javs opinions but I think his ol lady must have screwed him over or maybe he got fired. He is not rational today.
I am a socialist. A diehard Bernie supporter. I support progressives across the country with donations etc. I will vote for biden because he is the lesser of 2 evils. I hate that, but have no real choice. I would prefer he pick someone a little more progressive than Rice, but if it is her, so be it.
4 more yrs of trump would be disastrous. Anyone that cannot see this is blind.
Nice try Slick.
There are 4 kinds of voters in this country. The very rich vote republican, and they should. That is where their interests lie. There are non rich that vote republican to their very own detriment. These folks are driven by racism, religion(what a joke to vote for chump because you think it is the "christian" thing to d0) or out n out stupidity. There are folks who vote democratic because they have empathy for other humans and care about the worlds condition and it is the only real choice they have right now(Even though they are also rich capitalists). Then there are the idealists that vote for the best candidate even though they have no chance of winning, effectively throwing their vote away and therefore helping that which is farthest from their views.
centrists like thod, who have been conditioned to always vote party instead of policy, giving the establishment everything they want, election after election, while at the same time having the audacity to shame others who choose not to support corporate politicians b/c they represent the same ideals, whether GOP or dem, have caused great distrust within the party's younger generations.
why did the dnc platform committee vote down m4a and cannabis? ---- both wildly popular topics with registered dems.
why should we trust dems will start to do right? why can't they start now?
wait -- so we can't call somebody a centrist but we can socialist?
this thread is sad and indicative of what is wrong with political discourse in america - regardless of how you feel about the ideas javs has been discussing, he laid out his case clearly, explained exactly what he does not like, possible alternatives, and provided examples and facts to support his points about rice and the DNC in general.
except for judit's post and maybe one or two others, all the responses seem to consist of insults and whataboutisms that do not address or rebut any of the points java made in any meaningful way, and furthermore are the same tired and absurd insults used by folks like donald trump, rush limbaugh and tucker carlson - the kind of stuff that calls into question not only a persons knowledge of nuanced political issues, but also their basic understanding of simple historical concepts that most of us were able to master in high school.
if you disagree with his characterization of rice and/or the dnc, provide rebuttals with concrete examples, and better yet, some links to respectable news sources that might back up your rebuttal.
this applies most to briank - at this point im inclined to agree that getting trump out of office should be a major priority - if i lived in a swing state i would be voting for biden - but your inability to string together a respectful, intelligent, factual, and well thought out rebuttal to an idea you disagree with is very sad. the rebuttal to the idea that we should not vote for biden should be simple to make in a respectful and convincing manner. and i would venture to guess that you dont really have the ability to respond to java's obviously well researched points about susan rice - that would require doing some actual research and critical thinking, and to have some kind of vague concept of the past 10-20 years of american foreign and domestic policy - qualities that generally allow folks to have nuanced political discussions without using the regurgitated insults of braindead trumpists to obscure their ignorance and incompetence.
not even trying to says javs is right and you are wrong - but for those of you who posted several times in this thread and did not contribute any actual ideas, sources or facts, maybe its time to step back from the internet/social media/politics feedback loop and spend some time watching movies, spending time with friends and family, learning about history, or enjoying a hobby. discussions involving viewpoints you disagree with or facts you are unframiliar with is obviously beginning to wear on your mental health and critical thinking abilites.
LOL. Just trying to lighten things up, Mark. What the hell, ya know?
I wish we had better candidates and things were better, but this one is really important. Yeah, Joe is no Barack as a thinker or speaker, but I think his big leads show he will get our number one mission accomplished.
As much respect as I have for both, I don't think Warren or Bernie would have this kind of lead - and turning the swing states. Those Senate seats are important too. Could be a blue tsunami as they say. And we will move forward from there.
Here's a strange thought (from the Strangha). Might be appropriate for an older politician on the way out to take this job. First, who the hell would want it? What a mess they'll inherit and I doubt it will ever get fixed properly. In four years, the arrows headed their way from everywhere will be massive. And quite possibly successful. Why would a politician with a potentially long career ahead of them waste their political capital taking a job that could be political suicide in four years? Just an odd thought. Don't pay it much mind.
As Donald Trump assumes office today, he inherits a targeted killing program that has been the cornerstone of U.S. counterterrorism strategy over the past eight years. On January 23, 2009, just three days into his presidency, President Obama authorized his first kinetic military action: two drone strikes, three hours apart, in Waziristan, Pakistan, that killed as many as twenty civilians. Two terms and 540 strikes later, Obama leaves the White House after having vastly expanding and normalizing the use of armed drones for counterterrorism and close air support operations in non-battlefield settings—namely Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia.
Not that it matters, but I am not for Susan rice in any way
I am against VP pence in many ways
yes the lesser of two evils suck, and can be exhausting - esp year after year
I do feel that javs and heat present far more insults than are required, which detracts from arguments or disagreement or nuanced analysis
i do respect those with the ability to write well like javs, ben and even Bryen ( regardless of any missing logic or ethics)
nanny nanny
" you kids stop arguing or I am going to turn the car around"
it was very traumatic when at the drive in in our 56 Buick watching Ben Hur with my sister, my mom gave up with all the bickering and took us home. Lol?
What you don't quite understand, Daylight, is that I don't necessarily disagree with much of what Javs has said, nor do I give a fuck about socio-political affiliations. My issue is with his blatant hypocrisy. If you see America as the great evil in the world, why on Earth would you feed the worst of the worst by coming here and spending your money at corporate entities?
As I said very early, there's a whole bunch of people who hate Biden and will/would never vote for him, and they will also hate anyone he picks as a veep. What more needs to be said? Definitely not 8 paragraphs on why a capitalist is a capitalist.
Jesus, BK, you are so weak and I see now that Pyramid really has always been right about your Modus Operandi on the Zone. Pyramid, sorry I ever doubted you on that point.
You are the self-proclaimed progressive who rabidly defends neocon neolibs and has called me out for my nationality, for being a socialist and now because I think America is evil. You do realize that you sound like a stereotype, right? Playing progressive in Burlington (lol, real challenge there) and then just feeding into a system and rabidly defending a system which by coincidence feeds into your resource hungry lifestyle.
To the other people on the zone, whose opinions I'm still interested in (all of you but BK at this point), I'll say this: I don't believe in nationalisms and think that calling out a person on their nationality instead of addressing their ideas is pathetic and cliché. I think my country is just as fucked as yours and am more than happy to rant about the bullshit here. I believe in humans, not governments, not nations.
Second, I've never once said I'm a socialist, nor do I associate with that label. Don't bite on BK's half-wit red scare tactics. I don't think there is a label that truly encompasses my perspective but I do know that I value integrity and honesty above all. I am more than happy to adulate any candidate from any side of the political spectrum who shows those qualities. The total and complete lack of integrity in the democratic party today is disgusting and you can wash your hands with your lesser of two evils arguments all you want but the fact remains: if you vote for them, you validate them. It's that simple.
Finally, as a gesture of humor and good will to the Zone. If anyone (except BK) can find a quote where I said that I thought the United States was evil and I was serious (not joking), I will donate another 100 bucks to the zone above what I already donated. The rules are as follows.
1) Find the quote and copy/paste in this thread with date and time stamp;
And I'll add that this thread has been a damn good example in how mob violence works. The masses of people who refuse to think when challenged on their beliefs. I think only two people in this thread have addressed the arguments I've made and a whole bunch of people have piled on the sacrificial violence train.
In the meantime, the only tool most of you have in your arsenal is "He's not the other guy and that's as far as I'm willing to think about it". Haven't you ever thought that if you always play the lesser-of-two-evils game, that you're allowing the "evil" to draw the parameters? All the "evil" party has to do is keep on moving further in the direction of "evil" and then the lesser-of-two-evils keeps getting more and more evil. It's really not that hard to grok. And your Dems have been deliberately playing this game for a long time, so as I've said before: it's either stupidity or vested interest, and I don't think it's stupidity.
I don't care if you're from Chile, Colorado or Texas. You dislike Biden, you would never vote for him in the first place, and you wrote a tome on how one of his potential veep picks is a capitalist from a wealthy family. Were you trying to mansplain to us yet another reason why we shouldn't vote for Biden? Jesus, the guy is pro business and in the center. Of course he's going to pick a veep along those lines.
You, Javs, are the one judging people for voting for Biden. I really don't give a flying fuck who someone votes for. It's their right, and I'd like to see well more than 60-% exercise that right.
thod cares so much about the disenfranchised -- yet fought against the only candidate that was actually representing those thod now pretends to care about.
>>> thod cares so much about the disenfranchised -- yet fought against the only candidate that was actually representing those thod now pretends to care about. <<<
your beloved savior bernie is gonna headline the first night of the democratic national convention.
I'm on the zone exhausting people who are fighting against injustice??????? Hahahahahahahahahhahahah. OMG that's fucking funny. Bunch of old, pot-growing Deadheads on a music board are now warriors against injustice. Sorry, didn't mean to open a debate on your very serious platform dedicated to fighting social injustice. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, what a fucking trip this place is.
And I already donated to the Zone, Chachi. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote.
Every four years a bunch of old farts who took too much acid in their youth read too many media stories and find themselves thinking they are political experts. These boring debates go on and on until the next jerk off is elected then for the next three years they have to validate their dude. They are true battlers of socio economic inequality for sure. Fighting the good fight of arguing like morons on a burn out dbmb. Classic.
You are so full of shit with your arrogance. You've created a black/white situation, and you sure as hell are judging people who don't think the way you do. You've decided what "real" progressives think and do, and hold them to your standards. It's all up there, in post after post of yours.
It's not black/white. There is a whole hell of a lot of gray area. You've decided that Biden is evil. You know ahead of time that you won't like his policies. You are holding his voters culpable for what you perceive as crimes.
Yeah, you never called the US evil. You have, in post after post, painted policies as extremely negative. You have painted Americans as the most privileged. You have smack-talked corporations. And you are not wrong about any of it. Without saying the words, you have painted the US as the evil empire that we are.
Where I disagree with you is on how to fix it. I have said, over and over, that it has to be grassroots. Top-down shit from the Executive yields executive orders, not the lasting change of hearts and minds. We need more progressives in local government, state government, and in Congress. That's when and how real change will come. As far as I can see, right now we need an executive who will stabilize shit and start bringing us together. That's what a President should be.
Disagree all you want. Judge me for casting a vote for someone who I think will be best for the country, right now, and hold me responsible for his fuck-ups. Whatever.
I'm in Vermont and can vote for whomever I want, knowing that our electoral votes will go to Biden. For me, this election is different. Trump will contest it when he loses. Although the popular vote is meaningless, it holds a lot of symbolism. If he loses by 2 million popular voles, he'll be emboldened. If he loses by 10 million popular votes, that takes a ton of wind out of his sails. I do t see it as "voting for the lesser of 2 evils." I see it as doing what is necessary to remove the malignancy that sits in the Oval Office, and is making a mockery of the people and the Constitution. We can agree to disagree on all that.
>> But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote. <<
Javs...that is you opinion, and nothing more. Most people are less rigid and use a little more nuance. Some will vote on a single issue (abortion, weed, gunz, immigration, etc) and are willing to accept the collateral stuff if the candidate advocates their one issue. Personally, I'm voting against Trump and would have voted for the Democratic candidate regardless of who they were.
What is you alternative, to not vote at all if a candidate doesn't wholly represent your values 100%, or to write-in someone that does?
This just occurred to me; are you a chess player? As you are playing, you're looking ahead to moves that both you and your opponent may make and the consequences as the moves unfold. It's never just the move you're making, but the moves your opponent will make and then yours in response. Right?
Lay out domino chains? Card player? Project manager? You get the idea, right?
When we vote for a candidate, we're planning for the long haul, not just the next move. I'm voting for the coalitions they can build to accomplish their goals. I hope their goals are my goals, though not necessarily our immediate goals, more likely into the future.
For example, creating group food security isn't an overnight thing, it's farming, distribution, sales, and starts with a seed. Same with candidates for leadership.
The critical thing right now is replacing the present guy (and his cronies). A fucking monkey might do a better job. But seriously, and this is serious, Biden and whoever are going to stop the immediate destruction we're living (and dying) with. Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources... it's a very long a list of what needs to be done.
But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote. <<
I haven't read all this thread but that is in no way a plausible statement in a free election.
There are too many situational variances over time.
I do play chess and Judit, I think you are miscalculating the long-term results of the current moves. In chess you have to learn from the moves that have already been made, look back on them and see the pattern. The pattern in my life, since I was like 10:
R moves Ronnie Reagan. Conservative, trickle down, neolib, yet classical, classy and a statesman. Neolib policies start full swing, rich gettting richer; poor/rich gap starting to grow.
R gets extra turn for solid public manipulation, moves George HW. More conservative, sneaky. But still classy and a statesman. Neolib policies continue. Populace not happy with him as economic policies continue to widen gap.
D moves Billy. Far more conservative than the previous D president (Ford). A good politician, but here the dems introduce the sleaze factor. The being cool to appeal factor. The Arsenio Hall, saxophone playing, intern banging factor. Most love him anyways though. Neolib policies continue, bombings continue, rich/poor gap continues. R's see the opening for an everyman factor in politics.
R moves W. Far more right now than HW. Controlled by a dark cabal of neolib neocon sons of bitches. Appears on TV cutting wood with a chainsaw and dodging shoes. Says stupid things but people think he's cute. 9/11, political tide, war, war, war, state surveillance, Patriot Act, military hardware in the hands of police. 8 years. Wears out the cute welcome. Neolib gap growing more and more.
D moves Barry. Yet more right then Billy, more corporate friendly. Smooth, everyone loves Barry, except of course the racist everyman that W empowered before. Neolib gap continues, drone wars continue, etc.
R moves WAY right, mixes far-right with everyman populist DJT.
Next move, Dems throw a further right neolib neocon, with a big oil big timber friendly VP, more war, more neolib economy, gap continues to grow. Same trajectory as before. Subsequent result in 4 or 8 years? An even further right version of Donny. Or just flat out collapse depending on how long the republic can take the continually growing divide between rich and poor.
I don't think most people here take into consideration the real weight of big oil, big war in the US and ergo the global economy. Every little detail, weapons, bullets, plastic cups in the Mess Hall, stationery for official letters, billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. The entire US economy is dependent on this. And if you think for a second that an establishment president is going to alter the course of that, well, I guess I think you're wrong.
I really don't think that Biden/Rice have this "Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources..." in mind as their policy platforms.
>> D moves Billy. Far more conservative than the previous D president (Ford). <<
You lost me there. Bill Clinton was not more conservative than Ford (R). And Obama went left of Clinton with the ACA, something that Clinton couldn't accomplish.
And yes, "Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources..." is part of the Biden policy platform. Just because you don't believe it doesn't reverse their platform.
>>>And if you think for a second that an establishment president is going to alter the course of that, well, I guess I think you're wrong.
You're absolutely correct, no president, establishment or otherwise, has the ability to change the entire system. That will take time and has to come from Congress.
Top down vs. bottom up. I believe that you and I differ on how to make it happen.
well, i hope that the mighty dnc has done its woo-ing of voters in states that are contested otherwise all this posturing and blather doesn't mean jack-doodly-squat.
then we can go back to seeing the slow decay of our society instead of dumpster donny's fast track approach.
Jav, I think the patterns you're looking back on are broken and the moves aren't the ones we're used to. DJT and friends are breaking what's breakable.
Yes, oil has been king, but now as T.O.D. pointed out, we're also dealing with other things as well. The killing of so many people by our gov't's response, and lack thereof) to Covid-19 is a really big deal. So, there's a lot to come back from. Sustaining the oil economy should be way lower down the list than it is. I presume that Biden gets where we're at in terms of what really matters. Why? Because we are so far fucked right now.
I'm no longer looking at political platforms, I'm looking at how can we save what and who we can. I used to think we had the ability and responsibility to save global population health and welfare. Now I'm not so sure the USA can do that. But we can start in our cities and farmlands. And we could get people like Jeff fucking Bezos to support the programs we are desperately in need of. I really don't like that guy; I don't believe it's right for people to have billions of dollars when others are starving, etc. I guess that might seem like an aside but it's not. It can't be all about the election, it has to be about how the hell we crawl out of where we are..
I agree, Turtle. I hope someone is reaching out to the people who can make a difference (and that we go back to slow decay as we crawl out).
Dan, your mean-spiritedness is hard to take. Wishing us ill hurts. No thanks.
Meanwhile, Trump is quietly in the process of lowering the federal poverty line. If he succeeds, it means more people will be substantially worse off: less housing support, less healthcare, fewer kids on free and reduced lunch, etc.
Is it Trump's incompetence, his racism, his dishonesty, his narcissism, his misogyny, his vindictive nature, his lack of empathy, his corruption, his authoritarian instincts?
You may not believe it, Slack, but I'm with you. Property values in my town are spiking, and it means that average people an no longer afford to buy here. The house 2 doors down just went on the market for $410k, and got multiple cash offers. On one hand it's great, it the reality is that it isn't right. Rich fucks from Florida and Texas are literally driving around and making outrageous cash offers.
Meanwhile, my rental is well below fair market value, so that working class people can afford to live there. If I was to sell right now, I'd price it below value and only sell to a working class family. It's something I've done before, and I'll do it again. I honestly hope that this little bubble bursts very quickly. Life is not about the almighty dollar.
Thod do you have a job right now or are you collecting the socialist money? Just wondering bradi diddly brah. Seems like you have endless hours to post on here. Makes it more impressive that you run through the same exact discussion on every thread too. I would say you're on the verge of lunacy, bud.
The definition of "insanity" is repeating the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.
Yo, Timpane and T.O.D., the thread has gotten a lot more on topic and less tit-for-tat on each other's backs. Please back away from that, and from the black screen if you don't want to be kind.
Your discussion is a broken fucking record, Thod. And looking at your posts it's hard to consider you an adult. You guys are nothing more th just a bunch of punk ass little boys. Enjoy your political circle jerk that you can't stop having. Round and round you go
>>> Your discussion is a broken fucking record, Thod. And looking at your posts it's hard to consider you an adult. You guys are nothing more th just a bunch of punk ass little boys. Enjoy your political circle jerk that you can't stop having. Round and round you go <<<
Lol, have fun getting your rocks off on this discussion. Keep seeking validation little boy. You have a lot to learn about acceptance and your mental illness. Good luck.
You're either making every effort in the world to vote for biden or not. end of discussion. bernie will speaking at the convention because he knows the catastrophe and collapse 4 more years of Trump will bring. the corona virus may literally go on forever in some shape or form if trump remains.
and also, thank you brian k and thod for standing up to the bullies.
1) Can we have 20 posts without insulting other Zoners?
2) all of you with strong opinions, and many things that you may disagree with, or don't like..: who would you prefer as Biden's VP, weather or not you would / will vote for that ticket ?
thank you for sharing your thoughts. (Try to keep them positive )
To answer your question, LLTD, I don't really care who he picks. They are all qualified, and they all have a black mark or two. At the end of the day, Biden will be boss. It's not like the person is going to go lone wolf and push through policies that Biden doesn't agree with.
Right on Ned and BSS. I knew I could count on you guys. LOL.
This thread reminds me of the politically incorrect meme about arguing on the internet. Does anyone actually think they'll convince anybody else of anything? But have fun and enjoy your day!
Nice - got any room? Green River to Mineral or going down to the confluence? Tex's doesn't take boats. I may go down Labyrinth mid-Sept. Taking 3 weeks off.
Wanted to let everyone know that I decided to come back to the zone and am okay, now. Did some soul searching and have re-found my purpose: fight against the "twitter progressives" and bernie trolls — more than willing to put abortions into back alleys so they can stroke their fragile little egos. You all know who you are and have been put on notice.
slick, ned, and our other neoliberals here should be happy trump and his shitty family donated to harris' campaign several times -- he liked what he saw, and kept giving.
slick is a republican disguised as a dem, lol, who thinks he cares and votes for the environment. good stuff.
neoliberals appeal to people like the trumps, this is not new.
let what go? letting go is what the dems want, it's what they count on.
sorry, confused liberals, like our psychobabble king above, the kind that think "all lives matter" (you still don't get that one, do you, lltd?), is what pelosi, schumer, and the rest of the republican-lites foam at the mouth for -- people who think the dems are the party that represent the people, our true values, honest, care about the poor and working classes -- when the reality of the situation is the opposite -- they, just like the republicans that lltd says he literally hates, lol, are working for their corporate masters, that's it.
>>>>>people who think the dems are the party that represent the people, our true values, honest, care about the poor and working classes -- when the reality of the situation is the opposite
Not at all. We're not confused. We just know the world will be marginally better if Biden beats Trump.
This is the progression of the conservativism scale over the last 40 years or so:
1 Most Liberal - 10 Hard conservative
Carter: 1
Ford: Not sure
Reagan: 5
HW: 6
Clinton: 4
W: 7
Obama: 5
Trump: 9
Do you see the pattern? This is what the lesser-of-two-evils creates. Cause and effect. By voting for the lesser-of-two-evils you don't ameliorate the effects of the right - you deepen them. What's next?
Do I have to pay rent for the space in your head, heat? Should be pretty cheap. There's a lot of empty space in there. Geez, you need a new shtick.
And JR, just wondering if you could find something more productive than wasting your time "fighting" the trolls on the internet. They couldn't be more irrelevant, and that's what frustrates them. Kinda funny.
To quote Brandi in "The Joke", "Let 'em spin. Let 'em scatter in the wind".
Whatever. Ya'll have a good day. Be well and stay safe.
I think arguably, in many ways yes. Economically, militarily, not all that different. There are some other areas where there may be differences. I'm pretty sure Obama was more of an environmentalist in terms of preserving lands, but I don't think that was much of a measuring stick in the 80s though; it didn't have the same weight back then that it does now. Where would you put them on the scale?
Shrunk the military? That's a bold claim. Reduced the amount of troops in Afghanistan are two different things. I would venture to guess that military budgets continued to increase during his time.
According to one article, probably a conservative source, Reagan and the EPA:
"Ruckelshaus demonstrated that a conservative Republican administration can be a faithful environmental steward. Under Ruckelshaus, the EPA acted to protect the Earth’s ozone layer from destruction by toxic chemicals. He launched the agency’s initiatives to phase out gasoline lead additives and to ban asbestos.
Ruckelshaus’ appointment helped neutralize some of the environmental outrage that Gorsuch and Watt had engendered. Without a functional EPA, it would have been very hard for the GOP to state with any credibility in its 1984 platform that Republicans supported “continued commitment to clean air and clean water,” and that “the health and well being of our citizens must be a high priority.”"
According to another source (don't know it, but the facts can be researched):
"Republicans for Environmental Protection, an organization that has been a staunch critic of Bush’s environmental record, posted a glowing In Memoriam to Reagan on their website Monday: “REP America joins every citizen in bidding a sad farewell to President Ronald Reagan. His wilderness protection achievements are an enduring legacy for the American people. President Reagan signed into law 38 bills that added more than 10.6 million acres of spectacular forests, mountains, deserts, and wetlands to the National Wilderness Preservation System.”"
James Watt was Reagan's Secretary of the Interior:
In 1980, President-elect Reagan nominated Watt as his Secretary of the Interior. The United States Senate subsequently confirmed the nomination.
His tenure as Secretary of the Interior was controversial, primarily because he was perceived as being hostile to environmentalism, and endorsed development of federal lands by foresting and ranching, and for other commercial interests.
According to the Center for Biological Diversity, Watt had the record, among those who served as Secretary of the Interior, of listing the fewest species protected under the Endangered Species Act. The record was later surpassed by Dirk Kempthorne, a George W. Bush appointee who, as of August 27, 2007 [needs update], had not listed a single species in the 15-month period since his confirmation.[4]
Greg Wetstone, the chief environment counsel at the House Energy and Commerce Committee during the Reagan administration, who subsequently served as director of advocacy at the Natural Resources Defense Council, argued that Watt was one of the two most "intensely controversial and blatantly anti-environmental political appointees" in American history. The other was Anne Gorsuch, director of the EPA at the time.[5] Environmental groups accused Watt of reducing funding for environmental programs,[6] restructuring the department to decrease federal regulatory power,[6] wanting to eliminate the Land and Water Conservation Fund which aimed at increasing the area of wildlife refuges and other protected land,[6] easing regulations of oil[6] and mining,[6][7] directing the National Park Service to draft rules that would de-authorize congressionally authorized national parks,[citation needed] and recommending lease of wilderness and shore lands such as Santa Monica Bay to explore and develop oil and gas.[6]
Watt resisted accepting donation of private land to be used for conservation.[8] He suggested that 80 million acres (320,000 km²) of undeveloped land in the United States all be opened for drilling and mining by 2000.[8] The area leased to coal mining quintupled during his term as Secretary of the Interior.[8] Watt boasted that he leased "a billion acres" (4 million km²) of coastal waters, even though only a small portion of that area would ever be drilled.[8] Watt once stated, "We will mine more, drill more, cut more timber."[9][dubious – discuss]
Watt periodically mentioned his Dispensationalist Christian faith when discussing his method of environmental management. Speaking before Congress, he once said, "I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns, whatever it is we have to manage with a skill to leave the resources needed for future generations."[10]
One apocryphal quotation falsely attributed to Watt is: "After the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." Glenn Scherer, writing for Grist magazine, erroneously attributed this remark to 1981 testimony by Watt before Congress.[11] Journalist Bill Moyers, relying on the Grist article, also attributed the comment to Watt. After it was discovered that the alleged quotation did not exist, Grist corrected the error, and Moyers apologized.[12]
"I never said it. Never believed it. Never even thought it," Watt later wrote of the statement. "I know no Christian who believes or preaches such error. The Bible commands conservation — that we as Christians be careful stewards of the land and resources entrusted to us by the Creator."[13]
That's an interesting read, Ned. Thanks for posting that. I think the Obama /Reagan comparison is an interesting discussion for academic reasons more than anything. Where exactly they sit in relationship to each other in terms of how conservative they are. It's interesting what you post about the Secretary of Interior and the conflicting claim from my (probably conservative) source saying the head of the EPA protected so much land, etc. I'm too lazy to research the stats now.
But I think it's undeniable that Obama was much more conservative than say Kenney or Carter. And that Trump and W were far more conservative than HW, Reagan and Ford. Is that correct? Because if that's the case, then you can see a clear pattern of the political center being pushed to the right over the years, until now what passes for left-wing, is somewhere in the neighborhood of an 80s right-wing.
> I think it's undeniable that Obama was much more conservative than say Kenney or Carter. And that Trump and W were far more conservative than HW, Reagan and Ford. Is that correct?
No that is not correct. It is clueless.
The Don is a snake oil salesmen. He will say whatever he thinks will work that day, then say the opposite a day later.
That is neither conservative or liberal politics. The best description would be charlatan politics.
Comparing 50 years of political thought as being all the same, regardless of the time period it happens shows complete and utter ignorance.
To say that "By voting first or the lesser-of-two-evils you don't ameliorate the effects of the right - you deepen them," is beyond foolish. It is less then zero dimensional checkers. It is more like zero dimensional tic tack toe.
That said, feel free to keep bloviating your nonsense.
The whole chess game analogy holds no water. It pre-supposes that there's some deep conspiracy, that has lasted for well over 60 years, to bring this nation to the right, and both parties are a part of it.
What the theory doesn't take into account is the reality of the American people. This has always been a very conservative nation. Although pockets have become more liberal, there are shit-ton of far right whackos and religious zealots. Although a majority want both universal health and a $15 minimum wage (around 66% for both), they will never align with "progressivism."
In almost 250 years we have had one non white president, and one Catholic president. Kamala Harris is only the second Black woman in the Senate. The "Red Scare" ended only 30 years ago, and the Committee on UnAmerican Affairs was 70 years ago. By in large, the United States is and has been conservative. The notion of some long-term conspiracy to move us to the right shows absolutely no understanding of the American psyche or history.
Or, is it yet another case of selective history to back a dim-witted theory?
No, Turts, calling someone who spouts Socialist talking points and links to Socialist website a "Socialist" isn't part of the red scare. Spin it any way you want, but you're barking up the wrong tree and creating a false narrative to change the conversation. Don't lay the historical context on me. For our purposes, here, it's not applicable. Socialism is an economic ideology, not a bad word. Deal with it.
Okay, go ahead and believe that there's a vast conspiracy that's ruling our lives and controlling all levels of government. I believe that there are wealthy people with way too much power, no more or less.
I'm not an idiot. I fully understand why Trump is already calling Harris a "Socialist." Most Americans do t know the difference between Communist and Socialist, nor can they name the 3 branches of government and their roles.
You're making my point for me. We live in a country with very conservative and capitalist ideals. It's not new, and it wasn't planted by the Koch Bro's. It goes back 400 years.
>>It's used to describe working class people that don't support trickle down economics.
I'm working class, don't support trickle down, and have never been called a Socialist. Have you considered moving away from California? People there seem like close-minded dicks.
When I mentioned chess I brought it up to say that we need to work for the future, not just for the now. I didn't think about looking back, I was just thinking about the future. I think that works, in that we can't and shouldn't expect that whoever gets elected won't be able to make all the desired change right away, we have to make moves one at a time.
"Kamala Devi Harris was born on October 20, 1964, in Oakland, California.[3] Her mother, Shyamala Gopalan, was a breast-cancer scientist who had emigrated from Tamil Nadu, India in 1960 to pursue a doctorate in endocrinology at UC Berkeley.[11] Her father, Donald J. Harris, is a Stanford University emeritus professor of economics, who emigrated from British Jamaica in 1961 for graduate study in economics at UC Berkeley."
It's starting to sound like someone has a strange boogeyman invented in their heads and is oddly obssessed with me and needs to project all that on me. Creepy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: I rang a silent bell
Susan Rice
Susan Rice
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
probably some kind of
probably some kind of nauseating pro war neoliberal
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Trump likes Kamala Harris:
Trump likes Kamala Harris:
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
daylight, weren't you pushing
daylight, weren't you pushing hydrosychlroriquine a few months back?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
meanwhile, susan rice is cool
meanwhile, susan rice is cool as a god damn cucumber. crossing my fingers for her.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
meanwhile, susan rice is cool
meanwhile, susan rice is cool as a god damn cucumber. crossing my fingers for her<<<
she also seems sincere
routing for either her or Warren
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
Fine choice = easy for him to
Trump's Fine choice = easy for him to rip apart in innuendo, false claims, and a little truth, Biden is a fine choice too
Susan Rice, and too bad the debate will not be Rice vs. Trump
Katie Porter needs a role, a key role,
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Porter should replace
Porter should replace Feinstein.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sigmund
Michelle Obama !
Michelle Obama !
Ohhhhhhhh, Bathe in the tears of the "Conservatives" !
You heard it here ( on the Zone) first !
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
daylight, weren't you pushing
not at all, the only thing i was pushing was the idea that we should be hopeful about possible covid treatments until peer reviewed human trails deem it effective or not effective, and not discount and deride something for the sole reason that donald trump and other conservative figures have, for some strange reason, latched onto hydroxycholroquine as some kind of strange political statement. which i still stand by 100%. as time goes on, its looking more and more like hydroxycholorquine is not going to be a good treatment for covid, but at the time the discussion was really front and center, there was absolutely no solid evidence either way, and a very large group of citizens, media personalities and politicians who allow the desire to criticize trump to be prioritized over all else, piled on to the issue by going beyond the basic common sense criticism that trump and other conservatives should not be pushing an untested treatment, and went on to claiming it was obviously not effective - a claim that at the time, had no solid evidence to back it up. some signs and research were beginning to appear that indicated it was not effective and may cause heart related side effects - but at the time the evidence against it was no more sound than the evidence in favor of it, and i found it wildly hypocritical to criticize someone for making recommendations based on very early, tentative research that was in no way conclusive, and then immediately turned around and used the same kind of early, tentative, inconclusive research to claim that it was for sure not going to be effective and would be dangerous.
one of the studies frequently referenced in discussions here was the lancet study that not only claimed it was not effective, but claimed patients treated with it actually had a higher mortality rate. as i pointed out on this forum at the time, the statistics were wildly unreliable, and there were glaringly obvious problems with the data...surprise surprise, that study was retracted - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-h...
my point has never been that hydroxycholoroquine is good or bad, and in fact many times prior to this ive said that i doubt it will be found to be particularly effective and the side effects involving the heart are concerning. my point has always been that many in the media, many politicians, and certainly everyone on viva who posted in the chloroquine thread in its earlier days claiming with certainty that it was not effective and dangerous, is guilty of doing the same thing trump was guilty of in the first place - using shaky and inconclusive data to reinforce a belief they had without any kind of knowledge about virology, pharmacology, or medicine in general that would inform their opinion. these folks instead used this inconclusive data to reinforce a belief they held simply because they wanted to believe the opposite of whatever donald trump was saying at the time - informed not by any actual knowledge of medicine but rather by reactionary, sensationalist talking heads on 24 hour news sites and garbage political blogs that prey upon your easily manipulated anger in exchange for clicks and neilsen ratings.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
"probably some kind of
"probably some kind of nauseating pro war neoliberal"
pyramid/Bryenish
calm down kid jfc
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
Gina Raimondo- governor of RI
Gina Raimondo- governor of RI
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
My guess is it will certainly
My guess is it will certainly not be Warren. Rice, Harris, or Demings is my guess. We don't seem to be hearing Lujan Grisham's name anymore. But that may just be the media.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
<<Katie Porter needs a role,
<<Katie Porter needs a role, a key role
Forgot about her. She is fucking badass and I agree with Slacker.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
<<<>>>
<<<>>>
pyramid/Bryenish
calm down kid jfc
<<<>>>>
the fact that you likened me to bryen is hilarious, goes to show how little you know, and overall just makes you look like the stupid old man you are.
all lives matter, right lltd?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
calm down kid jfc
i guess "nauseating" is a matter of opinion, but all of the frequently discussed candidates for VP have either a pro war voting/policy record or a pro big business/financial deregulation voting/policy record - in many cases both. if you disagree id be very open to hearing any parts of the candidates political records i may have missed - i was actually pretty surprised at harris's voting record on foreign policy issues - seems like she is trying to ratchet back the imperialist machine...unlike senator feinstein who last month voted against withdrawing our troops from an almost 20 year long campaign of terrorism with no real goals or objectives. i have other issues w harris but that is one of the most important ones...its a pretty low bar to just be less horrifingly shitty than diane feinstein but ll give harris some credit there...i guess. her voting and records in the senate honestly are not that bad but imo the last thing this country needs right now is another pro war on drugs/pro police state prosecutor like harris in the white house.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
the fact that you likened me
the fact that you likened me to bryen is hilarious, goes to show how little you know, and overall just makes you look like the stupid old man you are.
You and "Bry" are opposite sides of the same coin. It's hilarious that you can't see that....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Let's go Susan Rice!
Let's go Susan Rice!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
I like Susan Rice a lot, but
I like Susan Rice a lot, but Trump's already come after her about her involvement in the investigation of his 2016 campaign.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
you're probably right which
you're probably right which might be a bummer. however, she is seasoned, exudes leadership, poise and will have a great ability to heal our standing with the international community. she would be able to lead behind the scenes while joe floats further into early onset dementia as his term goes on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
your life matters
your life matters
as do all lives, oh young brilliant one
...I must be so terribly stupid, or a white supremacist as I didn't know it was illegal nor a racist thing to say that at the time, mea culpa going forward no all lives matter ( but love matters)
two screamers on the opposite side of the spectrum (" I'm right so you are horribly wrong, and a moron")
thanks daylight, politics do suck, compromises and negations are sadly expected and the norm, not that that is OK, at all
trade offs, compromises, and weaklings do rule
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
woz -- you don't really have
woz -- you don't really have a good track record here -- i mean, between telling us nelson would never recover, to openly supporting and telling others to support a racist oligarch and their vanity presidential run.
now that shit is hilarious as well as sad -- hilarious you'll never see that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Exxon Mobil is delighted to
Exxon Mobil is delighted to once again pick the vp for the Democrats this year.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
timpane, you're right which
timpane, you're right which is disappointing for sure. her family's net worth looks to be between $50 - $100M. also, her son sure seems like a douchebag, too. still think she would do a great job.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
2024 = Biden's VP pick v.
2024 = Biden's VP pick v. Nikki Haley
Biden is just a place holder.
But could the VP pick be bested by someone else running as a Dem in 2024?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Biden is probably trying to
Biden is probably trying to convince Exxon to toss him a bo that likes being fondled and touched in public
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
your bitter bernie schtick
your bitter bernie schtick is tired and is doing nothing to move the needle in a positive direction. Joe is the best we got and while flawed, he's not a bad man. Also, googled what you said and those are Russian talking points. hahaha smh smh
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
it's all about owning the
it's all about owning the libs for maga and it's all about owning the so called "centrists" by the far left. 2 sides of the same coin sprinkled with a little russian disinformation...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
No clue what you're talking
No clue what you're talking bout. You old burnt out druggies are so sensitive nowadays. You used to follow round a drugband fest and take illicit unknowns substances from strangers. Maybe you're not the greatest judges of political news. Night night little Jr
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
what is he doing about
what is he doing about georgia?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
i'm 42. is that old on the
i'm 42. is that old on the zone?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
people here say they'll
people here say they'll arrest gavin newsome.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
I've got the running mate!
I've got the running mate! Not a woman, but he can fix about anything! Jambi !!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Mekka Lekka Hi Mekka Hiney Ho
Mekka-lekka-hi, Mekka-hiney-ho!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
there have been recent
there have been recent whispers of hillary back in the mix and a possible vp choice. i'd cry tears of joy and run through the streets naked if that happened.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
JR - what about the political
JR - what about the political records of both hillary clinton and susan rice make them attractive to you? what sort of specific policies or pieces of legislation have they written or supported that you like? what kind of foreign policy decisions have they made that lead you to wanting them in a strong leadership position in the white house? what are your favorite specific economic policies that have been championed by either rice or hillary?
i totally get supporting them and/or biden as a strong national figurehead, and supporting them in a "lesser of two evils" scenario against trump, but im curious about what specific policies and parts of their recent legislative and/or political history makes them attractive to you in a way that seems to go pretty far beyond simply supporting them in a "lesser of two evils" situation against trump.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Clear questions benway
Clear questions benway
timpani seems to have issues
Bernie no more. bye bye let go move on
not that he or what's his face gives a f what I think
Guess Im just a dumb old burn out- ( but never went on tour and drugs a tiny part of my history >> I Must not be qualified to have opinions or able to think, be intelligent, be objective, or have sound judgement
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
^Drunk post? With all the
^Drunk post? With all the stoners on this drug board you'd think you all wouldn't be such a bunch of uptight stiffs and be able to take a joke or two.
42>>>>
Middle aged druggie suit ya better?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Timpane never took drugs from
Timpane never took drugs from strangers. What a wuss!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Lol. I'd ask what it was
Lol. I'd ask what it was after I took it. Not exactly something to be proud of but reality is what it is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
biden being against cannabis
biden being against cannabis legalization is racist.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
so, in theory...the vp would
so, in theory...the vp would be someone that should be able to ascend to the presidency once the pres is done, right?
like...joe was the vp once...then lost..to hilldawg.
who can fill this role?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
^ no doubt
>>> biden being against cannabis legalization is racist. <<<
^ no doubt
but, i'm still voting for him
joe's the perfect candidate right now,
because people ain't jazzed on him either.
now how about everybody pull their weight to get rid of the fascist-in-chief trump.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
how about they campaign and
how about they campaign and work in tight states that they lost?
just an idea...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> how about they campaign
>>> how about they campaign and work in tight states that they lost? <<<
how do you know they're not?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
biden being against cannabis
>>>biden being against cannabis legalization is racist.<<<
some seem to think officer kamala will bring him around
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
wait -- are we over hating on
^^haha.
wait -- are we over hating on the racist politicians now?
we know kamala is lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
they are tied in georgia tod.
they are tied in georgia tod.
what are they going to do about it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
>>wait -- are we over hating
>>wait -- are we over hating on the racist politicians now? <<
no.
In my mind basically any politician running for a national office, without an actionable and comprehensive plan to dismantle the private prison industry is at minimum a racist enabler. Id like to hear (any of) them even speak intelligently about, or even acknowledge its existence actually.
it's literally the root.
Obama actually (barely, but more importantly - consciously) started this process. Why is joe not waving the roadmap at us?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Will Biden's veep pick really
Will Biden's veep pick really swing voters one way or another?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
i agree, bss.
i agree, bss.
imo no, bk.
didn't they have jr's queen HRC up by 15pts this time in 2016?
biden isn't allowed to support m4a even tho everybody is out of work and lost their employee health insurance.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
don't businesses want to get
don't businesses want to get out of the business of supplying health coverage to their employees?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> they are tied in georgia
>>> they are tied in georgia tod.
what are they going to do about it? <<<
"they" are prolly gonna stand 8-10+ hrs risking their lives for another old white dude, during a global pandemic,
to vote out putin's favorite lil puppet.
meanwhile...
white privileged kids from states like vt get to scream how both sides suck
thinking they grabbed the holy grail of talking points, like we don't know that already
but...
leaving it up to others to carry their weight.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
All this hot air is not
All this hot air is not helping the climate change issue.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
The working class are the
The working class are the biggest polluters. Keep them out of the suburbs.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
so i should register to vote
so i should register to vote in georgia?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
nah, you're good and safe
nah, you're good and safe right where ya are (winky face)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Zzzzzz
>>>"they" are prolly gonna
>>>"they" are prolly gonna stand 8-10+ hrs risking their lives for another old white dude, during a global pandemic,
Speaking from Georgia, we decided today we'd do early voting since our mail-in ballots weren't counted in the last election. So that's the risk we will have to take. Not excited by it but .........
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
I'm old so what ...that only
I'm old so what ...that only means
i have experienced and observed a lot and benefited from nature and nurture > where when and how I grew up
my ego has limited me some, but I guess that also applies to others. Lol?
Have a good day all (Is this really a drug message board? I am slow and never looked at it that way )
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Music. Art. Life
Music. Art. Spiritually. Life. LOVE
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
are they calling you zang?
are they calling you zang?
are you being wooed by the democratic party or not?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Lltd getting all poetic and
Lltd getting all poetic and shit.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
thod you are the problem are
thod you are the problem are you don't even know it. lol.
you supported bernie in 2016 b/c it was cool, like the fucking idiot you are.
then you were against bernie in 2020 b/c it was again cool to hate an old white guy and support a woman -- identity politics over real change/policy.
supporting party over policy is what got us into this mess and does nothing to change only supports the status quo.
people like thod hated on bernie for being old and angry -- how sad is that?
now he supports protesters in the streets who are calling for the exact policies bernie has been pushing for.
stupid human.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
you went 0-12 there, bro.
you went 0-12 there, bro.
god you suck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Lltd getting all poetic and
Lltd getting all poetic and shit.
~~~~~!~
hell yes, and this is big chunk of why yesterday>>> JERRY day MARS HOTEL crushing the hell out of it ( trust me or not, but do give ot a try, what do you have to lose??)
makes me so very happy
we are blessed
https://www.facebook.com/Deadheadland/videos/289553075660306
please play this VERY loud, smile, cry, dance, be crazy, give thanks LOve to ALL :)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Scott Guberman keys
Scott Guberman keys
Jeremy Hoenig drums
Robin Sylvester bass
Alex Jordan rhythm
Stu Allen
I'll pay for your Forteleza Blanco and a beer too
tribute band, cover band whatever in the DNA
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Apologies for bumping my own
Apologies for bumping my own shit. as I wax poetic or not
this Stu ain't got no husky, but his Robin is so beautiful look and listen and opine
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
fuck you timpane!
fuck you timpane!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jazfish
there have been recent
there have been recent whispers of hillary back in the mix and a possible vp choice. i'd cry tears of joy and run through the streets naked if that happened. <<<
Jr, that would be Whoopie Goldberg talking the whisper on the view.
No link.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
*tears fall from JRs face*
*tears fall from JRs face*
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
that's it, thod?
that's it, thod?
truth hurts, eh.
sucker.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Hillary will NOT be chosen.
Hillary will NOT be chosen.
However people feel about Joe, he does want to become our next POTUS.
Poor VP choices can damage a run.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> that's it, thod?
truth hurts, eh.
sucker. <<<
you project a word salad scenario
and claim it's who I am?
it really is almost sad how much you appear to be hurting.
I did see bernie give a full-throated endorsement of biden this weekend on ali velshi.
he said everybody (including the bros) need to get behind joe and vote trump out.
you gonna let someone else carry your weight?
or
are you gonna do the right thing?
nevermind, I don't care, you're a fuck'n idiot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
thank you for speaking truth
thank you for speaking truth to power, tod. i don't have the energy right now to be as eloquent as you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Are we going to take a day
Are we going to take a day off of insulting people?
to honor Jerry...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Jerry never got into
Jerry never got into political arguments on a drugband internet board bradi
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Rumor has it that Jerry did
Rumor has it that Jerry did want to argue politics on a dbmb.
Phil was pissed off. According to notes held from the (now infamous) db meeting, Phil said the following:
"Jerry I luv U. That said, if U want to discuss politics, get your own (explitive) dbmb."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: I rang a silent bell
Rumors that Susan Rice is
Rumors that Susan Rice is flying in to Delaware on private jet today...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
So did Gretchen Whitmer
So did Gretchen Whitmer earlier this week.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
I Think It Will Be Susan Rice
I Think It Will Be Susan Rice
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
Sounds like the final
Sounds like the final interviews are happening, what's Vegas got for the odds right now?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Biden better find someone
Biden better find someone competent and willing to be out front; because the less he opens his mouth the better at this point.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
hey JR you edited out the
hey JR you edited out the good part of your last post
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
maybe msnbc viewers are not
maybe msnbc viewers are not allowed to say the "D" word in reference to joe biden, good thing you caught yourself there
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jazfish
Is Biden all there in the
Is Biden all there in the zoner's collective opinion?
He seems sharp as the ball part of a peening hammer.
Trump , lol!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
So, what are the main
So, what are the main objections to Susan Rice? OGP? Anyone? What are the positives? Looks a little centrist to me, but I know little about her.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
too much experience to be in
too much experience to be in this game right now - tongue in cheek
compared to pence or dumbo, words cant describe the intellectual gap
Democrats are not Republicans, nor trmupkin robber barron supporters ( Stanford Indians still rule btw)...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
nice quote re pence
nice quote re pence
It didn’t matter, if we learned anything the last few years it’s that VPs are useless. Mike Pence is so passive I forget he exists. The man is basically the he human version of TV static.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
The concern about Susan Rice
The concern about Susan Rice seems to be that she never ran for or held office.
Moving forward this race is gonna b as low & nasty as it gets.
From what I can tell, Susan Rice is very bright & can handle what's sure to come.
If chosen, the proof is in the pudding.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
The POTUS
The POTUS
Piece
Of
Trash
USA suffers under
Still. has zero political experience
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
Sounds like Michelle Obama
Sounds like Michelle Obama and Bernie are speaking on the first night of the convention
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Democrats are not robber
Democrats are not robber baron supporters....Jesus, sometimes these infantile fantasies about the Dems being the good guys are really just sad.
Susan Rice's net worth was declared in 2016 as being between 15 and 28 million dollars. The Center for Responsive Politics estimated in 2009 that she's worth between 23.5 and 43.5 million. She has DEEP ties to the Keysone XL Pipeline people. When she was being vetted for Secretary of State she disclosed 600k in investments in that company alone (TrasCanada). Further, her investment portfolio ranges from fossil fuels to large financial institutions.
So wash your fucking mouth out about Dems not being robber barons, They ARE the robber barons. You may like them better than the Repubs because they don't say mean things on the TV set and because Obama is smooth and talks swell. But at least own up to the fact that by voting for the dems you're voting for the exact same pack of robber barons as the other team. Shit, cross-check their portfolios, see their common investments. Then maybe you'll stop thinking of the dems as such fairy tale folk heroes and realize that this game is about the mega-wealthy (worth 28 million dollars from investment in oil industries) versus the rest of us.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Her résumé from the corporate
Her résumé from the corporate and government-adjacent world, however, is much lengthier. In the praiseworthy words of The Wall Street Journal, Rice “has more corporate experience than others on Biden running mate list.” Indeed, she currently sits on the board of directors of Netflix, where she’s racked up stock options on more than 5,200 shares of the company, currently worth $2 million alone (according to an August 5 filing, she’s divested about one-quarter of those holdings, netting some $300,000). That, along with a stint at American University as a visiting research fellow, MAKES UP THE BULK OF HER POST-OBAMA professional activity.
The lack of transparency in Rice’s work at Intellibridge may be standard for that particular foreign-consulting industry, but that’s not a sufficient explanation for someone striving to be vice president. And given that the one client of hers from that time that we know is someone widely referred to as a “benevolent dictator” and “darling tyrant” who’s been in power since the mid-1990s, there’s plenty of cause for alarm.
Rice appears to be the beneficiary of substantial family money.
She and her husband were also invested in Enbridge, the company behind the discharge of more than a million gallons of toxic tar sands oil into Michigan’s Kalamazoo River in 2010 , the largest inland oil spill in American history, and BP, of 2010’s Deepwater Horizon spill, the largest offshore oil spill in history, period.
https://prospect.org/politics/susan-rice-has-a-disclosure-problem/
Y'all need to do your research and pop the bubble of your cute little fantasies about the dems. If you for one second believe that Susan Rice has the interests of the common man and woman in mind, then I got a bridge to sell you. She was the wealthiest member of Obama's cabinet, with a third of her portfolio at the time tied to big oil. Lol. Yeah, I'm sure people like her when they go to the Members of the Board meetings at their corporations, they probably sit far away from the Republican members and don't arrange any deals with them. Yup. That's how money works...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
But yeah, vote for the lesser
But yeah, vote for the lesser of two evils. Clearly, the team with the multi-millionaires invested in the oil industry has your interests at heart. Wait, which team was that again?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'll make a prediction: the
I'll make a prediction: the Socialists and Neo-Communists won't like Biden's pick. It'll almost be like they think Biden owes it to them to pick someone on the far left.
Jesus, get your own party, would you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
Javs, every election is a
Javs, every election is a choice of the lesser of two evils. It's been that way forever. Nothing is all good or all evil, so a choice between two evils is also a choice between the better of two goods. Everyone wants to vote for a better version of themselves, but we don't get that opportunity. I'm voting for Biden no matter who he chooses, unless it's tRump.
My prediction: a corporatist will win the election.
One of them is smarter, more sane, and less evil. I'm gonna vote for that guy.
It ain't rocket surgery.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol. Keep on telling yourself
Lol. Keep on telling yourself whatever you need to to get you through the vote, but the VP candidate that's looking likely to win is an oil millionaire married to the millionaire heir of a lumber company. If you for a second think either of these people is interested in social justice, environmental justice or ending international conflicts, then lol. That's all I got for you is lol.
If you are somehow convinced that a person like this will push policies that are different than Trumps, then I've got another lol for you...
Just please don't sit there and pontificate about how different the dems and the repubs are when you're voting for a oil and lumber millionaire to be your VP.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Biden, smarter? Dubious.
Biden, smarter? Dubious.
More sane? Lol, can you say dementia?
Less evil? Bumbling your way around while you let corporations rule the roost is less evil? Riiiiiiiiight.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I'll make a prediction:
I'll make a prediction:
The centrists will vote for business as usual and then cry about the 50% that abstained from voting when Trump gets re-elected.
Boo-hoo, it's all their fault for not voting. It's not our fault for putting our chips down on a failed candidate in a failed system...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
Calm down, Javs - three posts
Calm down, Javs - three posts in a row?
I'm glad you don't live here - we don't need any more tRump voters.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
How's the Communist
How's the Communist revolution going, Javs? Not so well?
You really think that you have all the answers, don't you? If you don't think that Biden will be better than Trump, you're missing something big. But of course you are. You don't live here and see it in real life, every day. Backtrack all you want, but you said that we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Disgusting.
Maybe you should write a new Communist Manifesto while on a little jaunt to Tokyo, or maybe to New York to catch a Broadway show and see the sights.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
it really is amazing how much
it really is amazing how much a guy from Chile is going this hard on US politics...
what time is it in Chile right now?
nvm, it's the same as the US (EST)
it's Sunday...
enjoy every donut.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Joe missed his deadline.
Joe missed his deadline. Howie Hawkins!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
So we R now judging
So we R now judging politicians by their bankrolls.
John Kennedy came from a family with money.
From the Inaugural Address of President John F. Kennedy
Washington, D.C. January 20, 1961
We observe today not a victory of party but a celebration of freedom--symbolizing an end as well as a beginning--signifying renewal as well as change... So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.
Though i guess since he had money we shouldn't have listened to him
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol, BK, you're such a cry
Lol, BK, you're such a cry baby. For a while I thought you were actually capable of discussing opposing points of view but you're so locked in your dogma that anytime I contradict your ideas your cognitive dissonance goes into over drive and you get all worked up.
I don't need to back track, go read my post, dummy. I never said you deserve it, I said it might be what's best for the country in the long run and I stand by it. Not by virtue of what Trump can do, but by virtue of him destroying and running amok and thereby potentially causing the American populace to slightly wake up from it's two-car garage air-conditioned stupor.
Maybe you should tell us some more about what a progressive you are because you voted Bernie in Burlington as you're casting your vote for an oil and lumber baron. You can waltz through your organic garden and drive your outback to your local city council meeting while telling everyone how an oil and lumber baron are the way to vote.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
nah, most people with even
>>> So we R now judging politicians by their bankrolls.
John Kennedy came from a family with money. <<<
nah, most people with even the littlest amount of intelligence knows what's at stake
this time around.
well maybe, with the exception of Vermont/Chile.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
And the more you little
And the more you little ninnies keep on pointing out that I'm Chilean, the more I'm going to point out the weaknesses in your argument. It's cute that you all, alleged liberals and whatnot, need to resort to your basic down-to-Earth "goddam foreigner" argument to talk to me. Meanwhile, try denying that your candidate has massive economic links to the same people on the other side of the aisle he and his partner are allegedly opposing? Go ahead, I'll wait. Give me a list of all the Boards of Directors that Rice sits on, and find one that doesn't have Republican financial interests in it. I'll wait.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Keep bloviating, Javs.
Keep bloviating, Javs.
There is no discussion with you. You're a hippy-crite with all the answers. The only one crying here is you. Jesus, you live in the top 10% of your society and spout Communism. Nice.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Yeah. And you vote for war
Yeah. And you vote for war mongers and call yourself a progressive. Right.
Keep on talking about my nationality and my finance, BK. Maybe someday you'll actually come up with an argument.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
And if you had any reading
And if you had any reading comprehension skills you would be able to point out where I've ever spouted communism. All I'm trying to say is that there is a .001% that hoodwinked you into believing they were working for your benefit, and you like a good little lemming to the voting booth bought it hook, line and sinker.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Poor, oppressed Javs.
Poor, oppressed Javs.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Jav's so I guess back in 1960
Jav's so I guess back in 1960 U would have supported Nixon. He had a lot less money then his opponent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol. What kind of foreign
Lol. What kind of foreign policy do you think an oil-industry millionnaire supports?
And most of you can't even see why a foreigner would care about your politics. Jesus.
BK, you're sad. Go cry about how everybody on the zone bullies you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
By today's standards of the
By today's standards of the Democratic party, Nixon would have been a perfect candidate for you all, so yeah Dave, maybe you would have voted for him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You're an arrogant mofo, Javs
You're an arrogant mofo, Javs.
Look at you with all the personal attacks. You can't stop, can you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Jav's so I guess back in 1960
>> By today's standards of the Democratic party, Nixon would have been a perfect candidate for you all, so yeah Dave, maybe you would have voted for him.
Jav's so I guess back in 1960 U would have supported Nixon. He had a lot less money then his opponent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
You really do do the same sad
BK, you really do do the same sad strategy over and over, you realize? You go in with your sarcastic remarks, your little low jabs, you snidely misconstrue what people say, and then when it turns on you you cry about how everyone picks on you. Ever wonder why you always end up in that spot? Couldn't have anything to do with you, could it?
Write an email to Judit if you want to cry some more about it. She might care.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
> Just please don't sit there
> Just please don't sit there and pontificate about how different the dems and the repubs are when you're voting for a oil and lumber millionaire to be your VP.
So the Democrats R the same as the Trumpers.
Sure, that makes sense.
It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> Lol, BK, you're such a cry baby. For a while I thought you were actually capable of discussing opposing points of view but you're so locked in your dogma that anytime I contradict your ideas your cognitive dissonance goes into over drive and you get all worked up.
I don't need to back track, go read my post, dummy. I never said you deserve it, I said it might be what's best for the country in the long run and I stand by it. <<<
here's what you said bro...
Javs Corner on Sunday, July 19, 2020 – 10:11 am
The best thing that can happen to the US at this point in time is another Donald presidency. Sadly, you all haven't been pushed to the extreme enough to really understand what's important in a government.
now, kindly go fuck yourself javs
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
After I posted several times,
After I posted several times, BK, without any personal attacks, your first post was:
"How's the Communist revolution going, Javs? Not so well?
You really think that you have all the answers, don't you? If you don't think that Biden will be better than Trump, you're missing something big. But of course you are. You don't live here and see it in real life, every day. Backtrack all you want, but you said that we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Disgusting.
Maybe you should write a new Communist Manifesto while on a little jaunt to Tokyo, or maybe to New York to catch a Broadway show and see the sights."
That's the very first thing you said to me. I had made several posts before that with not one personal attack against anybody. I may have called dem fantasies infantile and such, but I attacked no one and you came at me with this. You want to talk about getting personal? It's your only strategy, BK. This is how you started your day here. Did you address ANY of the points that I had made?
Fuck you, BK. Tell me that I talk smack to you. You're a passive aggressive whiner.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Thanks for the quote, THOD.
Thanks for the quote, THOD. Where in that did I say you deserve it? And who gives a fuck anyways? The fact that I'm an asshole makes you feel better about voting for a war-mongering oil baron?
Good for you, I guess...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
anybody who reads your quote,
>>> Thanks for the quote, THOD. Where in that did I say you deserve it? And who gives a fuck anyways? <<<
anybody who reads your quote, knows exactly what you mean.
Javs Corner on Sunday, July 19, 2020 – 10:11 am
The best thing that can happen to the US at this point in time is another Donald presidency. Sadly, you all haven't been pushed to the extreme enough to really understand what's important in a government.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"Knows exactly what you mean"
"Knows exactly what you mean"
Dangerous words. In the subjective grey area you and the masses can find your victim for the pyre. Now address the point, Tod?
What kind of policies do you suppose an oil and timber millionaire supports?
Do you think that she sits on Boards of Directors with members who are republican and have shared interests with her? How do you think that affects her political views?
Thoughts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
No? Nobody wants to answer
No? Nobody wants to answer that, huh?
So, let's see. She was a shareholder of TransCanada, holding 600k in investments there, during the time that TransCanada was attempting to build the Keystone XL Pipeline and suppress the rights of Native Americans. Given this fact:
What do you think that Susan Rice's views are on the rights of Native Americans? The rights of the government to overturn Indigenous rights and treaties for corporate benefit? The rights of heavy contaminating industries like big oil versus environmental priorities?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
your trying to talk oil
your trying to talk oil barron blah blah.
when we're at 164,000 dead and expected to be at 300,000 dead by December 1st.
so saying we deserve what we get is fucked up
so, go fuck yourself
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
> What do you think that
> What do you think that Susan Rice's views are on the rights of Native Americans?
United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
Susan Rice: "In response to the many calls from Native Americans throughout this country and in order to further U.S. policy on indigenous issues... The United States supports the Declaration (United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples)."
On April 20, 2010, at the United Nation’s Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, Ambassador Susan Rice announced that the U.S. would undertake a formal review of its position, in consultation with Indian tribes and others. The Administration held multiple consultation meetings with tribal leaders and other meetings with interested groups and individuals. The Administration received over 3,000 written submissions. An interagency team reviewed and considered all of the comments received and carefully considered the 46 articles contained in the Declaration.
On December 16, 2010, at the second White House Tribal Nations Conference, President Obama announced the United States’ support for the Declaration. The State Department also released a document to accompany President Obama’s announcement that provides a more detailed statement about US support and ongoing work in Indian Country.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
So they said they supported a
So they said they supported a UN declaration, talked to some indian Elders in front of some cameras aaaaaand.....? Policy changes? Did she stop banking from the oil companies running over the rights of Native Americans? Yeah, right.
She has a huge hole in her resume working for a foreign consultancy. Buttigieg worked for the same one and was forced to release the list of his clients at the time, something she has not done. Do you think that her connections with key players in the oil industry could influence her perspective during her tenure as VP (a short 4 years in a long career of loyalty to big oil)? Do you think there is an ethical conflict there? The fact that after her time as VP she would return likely as a consultant for the same firm or one like it, do you think that her long term benefits might not come into play when she is helpign to shape policy?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Hey Tod, I'm just kinda
Hey Tod, I'm just kinda seeing how far back I need to start with you, but check out this link:
http://www.dailygood.org/story/1366/10-tips-for-effective-communication/
It might be a bit complex for you still. If so, let me know and I'll find something more basic to school you with.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Where have I whined about
Where have I whined about people picking on me?
You're a mess, Javs, but I understand. It must be hard for you to be a good Socialist, when you were college educated in the imperialist shithole called the United States. I'm guessing that you don't have any college loans to repay. And then you are able to take your family on international trips to NYC, the most expensive place to visit. Who even considers a last minute jaunt to Tokyo, except those with tons of disposable income?
So yeah, everyone else is the problem, and you sit comfortably in your ivory tower living a life that working stiffs like me never could.
I'm not the enemy. I buy Venezuelan gas as much as possible.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> It might be a bit complex for you still. If so, let me know and I'll find something more basic to school you with. <<<
164,000+ dead in the US
donald trump let this happen, deliberately
and isn't gonna do a fuckin' thing about it.
so here's a lil something more basic to school you with...
I don't want to see family, friends etc...die!
so, add any name you want for vp with biden.
dig?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
BK, again, reading
BK, again, reading comprehension, my friend. Try it some time.
If you can point to anywhere anytime that I've called the US a shit-hole, feel free to post it.
I feel like I've told you that my wife is a doctor, yes? And that I'm a teacher? So yeah, I'm jaunting off to New York on my disposable salary. Dumbass...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Oh, and BTW, there's you with
Oh, and BTW, there's you with another personal jab.
Waaaa, waaaa, everyone picks on me!
Oh, and you're in luck: Venezuelan gas will be cheap after Rice get's Ol' senile Joe to sign off on a war against them...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Lucky you. Do you make sure
Lucky you. Do you make sure the airlines you fly, hotels you stay in, restaurants you eat in, clothes you buy are all from corporations that meet your Socialist standards? It seems to me that you feed the system a whole hell of a lot more than me, and then bitch about it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
WaaaaaaaaWwaaaaaaaa
WaaaaaaaaWwaaaaaaaa
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Hey is that a speck of blood
Hey is that a speck of blood on your hands from voting for War Mongers, BK? It's hard to wash out, isn't it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I've got much thicker skin
I've got much thicker skin than do you, Che.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You willingly and
You willingly and unapologetically give the war mongers your money. Out, damn spot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol, the American white male
Lol, the American white male talking to others about privilege. Haha. That's rich. As in yes, you are rich. You're entire life is based on raping the planet. AND you vote for the people who further those policies.
Better look closer at that spot. And sorry you can't afford to travel, Brian. Sounds like it's a sore spot for you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Hyperbole is the argument of
Hyperbole is the argument of the weak.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol, thanks, Sensei. Did that
Lol, thanks, Sensei. Did that pop up in your daily Hallmark greeting? Would you like to answer my questions from above as to how Susan Rice's economic context influences her policy push and potentiallly her tie breaking vote in the senate?
And if you want to lash out about my lifestyle (which for some reason you have notions about what my life should be like that are based on your own inability to read) and still NOT acknowledge your American lifestyle, then go ahead, but let me ask you: You commute to work (in non-pandemic times)? What kind of rig you got? You're in Vermont, I assume something that can handle snow. How many miles you put on it every year? How much mileage do you get? How many cars in your family? At least two, right? Both of you commute? You never travel? How many square feet is your house and how DO you heat it through that long cold Vermont winter?
Oh, and you saw a bunch of shows in your life, right? Travelled around the country in some giant steel gas guzzler eating fast food, smoking cheap smokes and staying in cheap hotels. Sounds like a lot of travelling. I wonder what the environmental footprint of that is? Shit, half the people on this board would throw any and all environmental considerations right out the window for the right show. God bless, 'murica!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Oh...and just how much DOES
Oh...and just how much DOES your gas cost? Weird that it's so cheap compared to the rest of the world, huh?...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Jav's U seem like a
Jav's U seem like a reasonable person, as much as one can make such a judgement on a message board.
U have every right 2 express your political opinions & even 2 get into sandbox brawls on Viva.
That U R buying into Trump speak that Biden has dementia plus adding that one of his perspective VP choices is a "robber barren" seems sad.
If U support the Don, that's your right. When U repeat Don speak, that is sad.
Carry on.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
OK you two, that's it. I'm
OK you two, that's it. I'm turning this car around.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Roarshock
Susan Rice.
Susan Rice.
It will be Obama Admin. Part 2
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I don't care about your
I don't care about your lifestyle. I find your blatant hypocrisy humorous. I'm not the one spouting Socialist bullshit while living an upper middle class lifestyle.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
BK, you're so full of it. If
BK, you're so full of it. If you think I'm a hypocrite it's because you have no clue what I'm saying. It's like the AOC fancy dress thing. Being a socialist doesn't mean you can't have nice things - it means that every last son of a bitch should pay their dues in taxes. Right now, you as an American are living off the fat of the planet and you ain't paying shit back and you call yourself a progressive while voting for war monger oil millionaires. I'm the hypocrite?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Javs
Javs
you are completely out of you mind and I can't read your drivel
containing as many damn insults as possible while claiming to be well informed and intelligent
yes it is always Bout the Benjamins
trump is way more evil and incoherent and steals as much money as possible for the fewest whiteys
do write whatever drivel suits your fancy
stay chilly dude ..go fly a kite and hate and rant on
but best of luck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Yet you still visit the
Yet you still visit the United States and willingly give your money to companies that feed American imperialism. If you really believed in what you were saying, you'd boycott all things American.
From this point forward I'm boycotting Chilean sea bass.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Javs
Javs
you are completely out of you mind and I can't read your drivel
containing as many damn insults as possible while claiming to be well informed and intelligent
yes it is always Bout the Benjamins
trump is way more evil and incoherent and steals as much money as possible for the fewest whiteys
do write whatever drivel suits your fancy
stay chilly dude ..go fly a kite and hate and rant on
but best of luck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Javs
Javs
you are completely out of you mind and I can't read your drivel
containing as many damn insults as possible while claiming to be well informed and intelligent
yes it is always Bout the Benjamins
trump is way more evil and incoherent and steals as much money as possible for the fewest whiteys
do write whatever drivel suits your fancy
stay chilly dude ..go fly a kite and hate and rant on
but best of luck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Did anyone else see Hillary
Did anyone else see Hillary on MSNBC this morning?
Smart, funny and always a good reminder how different it all would be if she was steering our ship.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Eggman
Javs, I never post on
Javs, I never post on politics but after reading your posts I feel the need to ask if you are you a supporter of Don Exotic The Lyin King?
There are two choices The current Failure In Chief and Biden. Who do you think will be best for The USA and the world. I do not need a diatribe just a name if you are willing to share .
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Javs doesn't understand
Javs doesn't understand Americans and the American political system anywhere near as much as he thinks he does. I'll cut him some slack on that, though. It reeks of hubris, but whatever.
The whole, "if you don't think like me you are wrong and part of the problem," thing is a bit totalitarian and problematic.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
So who's taking over for
So who's taking over for Senile Joe, if he gets elected? Poor Joe, can't even put a sentence together anymore. Poor old man.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: BBGD4fun
Javs doesn't understand
Javs doesn't understand Americans and the American political system anywhere near as much as he thinks he does.<<<
I don't think anybody understands Americans and the American political system, certainly not as much as they claim. I would include myself but I try to never make such a claim. It's a ball of confusion.
I do feel that this two party system has not yielded great results.
Isn't it pretty much the consensus that this is an Oligarchy?
But it's early in the life cycle of both human evolution and Merica.
Some clarity I have found here:
https://factfulnessquiz.com/
^^^^^^DON"T CHEAT and see if you can score higher than a monkey (which means 33% since they are all 3 answer multiple choice). Very humbling for those "know it alls".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27re_Wrong_Abo...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Is it a prerequisite that to
Is it a prerequisite that to be a bernie fanatic you also have to be an asshole? There are 3 here and all 3 are punk motherfuckers. Just sipping some non GMO tea and thinking....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Fank "dank"
Fank "dank"
you are more senile than Biden fwiw ..... get a grip "hippie"
I was meaning to ask:
Do you believe in the death penalty And murdering those convicted?
Trump and darkness dankness. Winning team
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
I agree 2 Dank. His mental
I agree 2 Dank. His mental acuity is in some ways worse than Trump. There's a part that wonders if Joe even knows why he's running and why he thinks he's best suited to lead. I'm honestly not confident he could answer that question and give a succinct and impactful answer. Don't get me wrong i will go to the mat for Joe; but also know he's far from running at 100%.
Which is why this might be the most important VP pic in a generation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Javs. What are your Psudenyms
Javs. What are your Psudenyms
And why ?
what is a javs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh
Do you sport a rifle and headband?
Beret?
Live off the land?
Why are you so angry? Disenfranchised?
Boss Bruce Springsteen’s biggest hit’s lyrics hurt?
And thanks for the insults
Even if they weren’t Insults by your accounting system
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Hypocrite comments stinging?
Hypocrite comments stinging much
lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Which side are you guys on
Which side are you guys on
blue?
https://apple.news/AWPaceQiiSv-p1scKJZp-ww
merica is ficked up. Jfc
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Dear early morning Zoners, I
Dear early morning Zoners, I tend to sleep through early morning and wonder, does posting in the early morning make it so people can't discuss, in this case, the problems with politicians, money, ideologies, upcoming elections, without resorting to putting people down, name calling, stupid ass distractions somewhat like what the current pres would use?
Yes, I know that you guys are smart, capable of looking at the things that are important, at how current questions will effect the future, and maybe way smarter than I am or anyone else is, but smarter doesn't mean everything.
So what I think I get is that Javs thinks that if the U.S.A. implodes because the present guy continues to destroy what we think we have it's not a bad thing because it will galvanize the force for better choices of politicians in the future. Meanwhile, many of us are looking at the current losses of life, jobs, housing, etc., thinking of not only the long-term but the short-term. I'm having trouble thinking that electing a corporate shill as V.P. will take us down a path of inextricable disaster. Perhaps to someone viewing from outside the U.S.A. it looks like we should experience the same upheavals and disastrous consequences others have had to deal with which will stimulate the rising of the phoenix, and it may, but I'm very attached to a relatively non-violent way of accomplishing change. Peaceful protests make sense to me.
I have quite a low personal standard of living. I'm okay with it as I have few desires outside my needs. I'm oldish. I have grandchildren. I was a Bernie supporter/voter. I haven't seen it demonstrated that Biden has dementia. I will vote for Biden.
Could you guys please make points in ways that elevate the discussion, give us new ways to think about things that you think matter, create dialogue? I want to continue to learn.
p.s. I've gotten no emails about the way you guys are talking to each other.
p.p.s. Black Lives Matter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
when you have nothing to
when you have nothing to really offer, just blurt out SOCIALIST!
same fuck smears the trumpers use but BK and TOD amongst others just fall back on that age old way to make someone seem un-american...
i'd expect better but when you cannot really refute someone's points just call them a socialist.
commie is also a good one!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I respectfully reject Javs
I respectfully reject Javs statement regarding Rice and "her policies". She will be VP and she helps execute Biden's policies, not hers.
Get Trump out and then we can look forward. Keep it simple.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
If only we could have a
If only we could have a socialist system. I'd feel much better about things.
I agree wtih you, nedb.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>>>>Meanwhile, many of us
>>>>>Meanwhile, many of us are looking at the current losses of life, jobs, housing, etc., thinking of not only the long-term but the short-term.
Advocating for more housing is just whining.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I wish you could find what
I wish you could find what you want, Knotesau.
I was writing about losses of housing, thinking of people who are losing jobs due to current events.
I just read an article about Biden's "risky racial remarks" which will possibly alienate young Black voters. Everyone needs to get their shit together.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Well Turts, seeing as how
Well Turts, seeing as how Javs isn't American, I'm not concerned that you think aim painting him as unAmerican.
Seeing as how the dude recites modern Socialist talking points, that he has posted links to a Socialist website, and be pretty much admitted to being a Socialist, it's not in bad form to call him one.
Funny how your panties get bunched over that, but not over the hundreds of "centrist" and "corporate Democrat" slurs, which are often false and used as nothing more than put-downs.
Now Turts, read above again. The level of vitriol from Javs to me is far beyond what I've said to him, often 3 posts in a row with multiple slams. It's the same old shit with you, playing your lame double standards. Wuss.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
lol, ok tough guy.
lol, ok tough guy.
unless i am mistaken, you know he's not like from chile originally...so maybe cares or has an opinion.
and brother spare me....calling someone a centrist has nowhere near the long standing connotation of smearing, jailing and murdering people because of that stigma or label so you can shove that right back up where it came out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Yeah, my calling a Socialist
Yeah, my calling a Socialist a Socialist is tantamount to jailing and killing. Lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
i know you don't see the
i know you don't see the point.
should i say have a nice day or fuck you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You're being overly dramatic
You're being overly dramatic about it.
Say whatever you want.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Say both
Say both
I often do. not that that makes it ok, is good, or is cool
some pontificate
some do not
some love to insult
some love to be offended
we are all humans
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
And some are dancers! (from a
And some are dancers! (from a song I've heard). Hey everybody, let's turn up the music and dance together! Kinda like a show.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Are you guys against social
Are you guys against social security / For trump?
are the evil "centrists"? That term makes me laugh when applied to me tbh
commie
socialist
Marxist
centrist
right wing
left wing
racist
evil republicans (trumpists)
less evil republicans
Democrats .... suck if they have money
Deadheads?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
the difference here is....it
the difference here is....it is a term that has been used in this country to alienate, denigrate, and divide the populace. the term centrist, historically has not.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
So, you're explaining to me
So, you're explaining to me why it's wrong to call someone a Socialist, when they identify as a socialist, write socialist talking points and link to a Socialist website?
I'm honestly lol-ing. Is this the next level of virtue signaling, or whatever it is?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
bk, sorry but bag o' hammers
bk, sorry but bag o' hammers is already taken...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Wow. When I opened this
Wow. When I opened this thread, I had to scroll so far up to update that I was filled with the dread of having to read through it.
Then, after I read some of Javs BS, and the BS answering him, I was able to just scroll passed all the bullshit. Turns out it was a short thread afterall.
I used to respect Javs opinions but I think his ol lady must have screwed him over or maybe he got fired. He is not rational today.
I am a socialist. A diehard Bernie supporter. I support progressives across the country with donations etc. I will vote for biden because he is the lesser of 2 evils. I hate that, but have no real choice. I would prefer he pick someone a little more progressive than Rice, but if it is her, so be it.
4 more yrs of trump would be disastrous. Anyone that cannot see this is blind.
Nice try Slick.
There are 4 kinds of voters in this country. The very rich vote republican, and they should. That is where their interests lie. There are non rich that vote republican to their very own detriment. These folks are driven by racism, religion(what a joke to vote for chump because you think it is the "christian" thing to d0) or out n out stupidity. There are folks who vote democratic because they have empathy for other humans and care about the worlds condition and it is the only real choice they have right now(Even though they are also rich capitalists). Then there are the idealists that vote for the best candidate even though they have no chance of winning, effectively throwing their vote away and therefore helping that which is farthest from their views.
Really sad situation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
California Democrats have a
California Democrats have a lot of issues. They aren't everything they think they are.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
just came in to say thod is
just came in to say thod is very stupid.
centrists like thod, who have been conditioned to always vote party instead of policy, giving the establishment everything they want, election after election, while at the same time having the audacity to shame others who choose not to support corporate politicians b/c they represent the same ideals, whether GOP or dem, have caused great distrust within the party's younger generations.
why did the dnc platform committee vote down m4a and cannabis? ---- both wildly popular topics with registered dems.
why should we trust dems will start to do right? why can't they start now?
wait -- so we can't call somebody a centrist but we can socialist?
strange.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Well said mr D
Well said mr D
Possible Nelson celebrations someday!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
this thread is sad and
this thread is sad and indicative of what is wrong with political discourse in america - regardless of how you feel about the ideas javs has been discussing, he laid out his case clearly, explained exactly what he does not like, possible alternatives, and provided examples and facts to support his points about rice and the DNC in general.
except for judit's post and maybe one or two others, all the responses seem to consist of insults and whataboutisms that do not address or rebut any of the points java made in any meaningful way, and furthermore are the same tired and absurd insults used by folks like donald trump, rush limbaugh and tucker carlson - the kind of stuff that calls into question not only a persons knowledge of nuanced political issues, but also their basic understanding of simple historical concepts that most of us were able to master in high school.
if you disagree with his characterization of rice and/or the dnc, provide rebuttals with concrete examples, and better yet, some links to respectable news sources that might back up your rebuttal.
this applies most to briank - at this point im inclined to agree that getting trump out of office should be a major priority - if i lived in a swing state i would be voting for biden - but your inability to string together a respectful, intelligent, factual, and well thought out rebuttal to an idea you disagree with is very sad. the rebuttal to the idea that we should not vote for biden should be simple to make in a respectful and convincing manner. and i would venture to guess that you dont really have the ability to respond to java's obviously well researched points about susan rice - that would require doing some actual research and critical thinking, and to have some kind of vague concept of the past 10-20 years of american foreign and domestic policy - qualities that generally allow folks to have nuanced political discussions without using the regurgitated insults of braindead trumpists to obscure their ignorance and incompetence.
not even trying to says javs is right and you are wrong - but for those of you who posted several times in this thread and did not contribute any actual ideas, sources or facts, maybe its time to step back from the internet/social media/politics feedback loop and spend some time watching movies, spending time with friends and family, learning about history, or enjoying a hobby. discussions involving viewpoints you disagree with or facts you are unframiliar with is obviously beginning to wear on your mental health and critical thinking abilites.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
>>>Nice try Slick.
>>>Nice try Slick.
LOL. Just trying to lighten things up, Mark. What the hell, ya know?
I wish we had better candidates and things were better, but this one is really important. Yeah, Joe is no Barack as a thinker or speaker, but I think his big leads show he will get our number one mission accomplished.
As much respect as I have for both, I don't think Warren or Bernie would have this kind of lead - and turning the swing states. Those Senate seats are important too. Could be a blue tsunami as they say. And we will move forward from there.
Here's a strange thought (from the Strangha). Might be appropriate for an older politician on the way out to take this job. First, who the hell would want it? What a mess they'll inherit and I doubt it will ever get fixed properly. In four years, the arrows headed their way from everywhere will be massive. And quite possibly successful. Why would a politician with a potentially long career ahead of them waste their political capital taking a job that could be political suicide in four years? Just an odd thought. Don't pay it much mind.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
As Donald Trump assumes
https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Not that it matters, but I
Not that it matters, but I am not for Susan rice in any way
I am against VP pence in many ways
yes the lesser of two evils suck, and can be exhausting - esp year after year
I do feel that javs and heat present far more insults than are required, which detracts from arguments or disagreement or nuanced analysis
i do respect those with the ability to write well like javs, ben and even Bryen ( regardless of any missing logic or ethics)
nanny nanny
" you kids stop arguing or I am going to turn the car around"
it was very traumatic when at the drive in in our 56 Buick watching Ben Hur with my sister, my mom gave up with all the bickering and took us home. Lol?
Btw. Didn't deadheads get on the bus?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Slacker, you voting for Trump
Slacker, you voting for Trump?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
What you don't quite
What you don't quite understand, Daylight, is that I don't necessarily disagree with much of what Javs has said, nor do I give a fuck about socio-political affiliations. My issue is with his blatant hypocrisy. If you see America as the great evil in the world, why on Earth would you feed the worst of the worst by coming here and spending your money at corporate entities?
As I said very early, there's a whole bunch of people who hate Biden and will/would never vote for him, and they will also hate anyone he picks as a veep. What more needs to be said? Definitely not 8 paragraphs on why a capitalist is a capitalist.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Jesus, BK, you are so weak
Jesus, BK, you are so weak and I see now that Pyramid really has always been right about your Modus Operandi on the Zone. Pyramid, sorry I ever doubted you on that point.
You are the self-proclaimed progressive who rabidly defends neocon neolibs and has called me out for my nationality, for being a socialist and now because I think America is evil. You do realize that you sound like a stereotype, right? Playing progressive in Burlington (lol, real challenge there) and then just feeding into a system and rabidly defending a system which by coincidence feeds into your resource hungry lifestyle.
To the other people on the zone, whose opinions I'm still interested in (all of you but BK at this point), I'll say this: I don't believe in nationalisms and think that calling out a person on their nationality instead of addressing their ideas is pathetic and cliché. I think my country is just as fucked as yours and am more than happy to rant about the bullshit here. I believe in humans, not governments, not nations.
Second, I've never once said I'm a socialist, nor do I associate with that label. Don't bite on BK's half-wit red scare tactics. I don't think there is a label that truly encompasses my perspective but I do know that I value integrity and honesty above all. I am more than happy to adulate any candidate from any side of the political spectrum who shows those qualities. The total and complete lack of integrity in the democratic party today is disgusting and you can wash your hands with your lesser of two evils arguments all you want but the fact remains: if you vote for them, you validate them. It's that simple.
Finally, as a gesture of humor and good will to the Zone. If anyone (except BK) can find a quote where I said that I thought the United States was evil and I was serious (not joking), I will donate another 100 bucks to the zone above what I already donated. The rules are as follows.
1) Find the quote and copy/paste in this thread with date and time stamp;
2) Paste the link to the thread where I said it.
Good luck finding that! :)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Did Biden forget about this?
Did Biden forget about this?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
"I thought the United States
"I thought the United States was evil and I was serious"
That was easy. :)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
And I'll add that this thread
And I'll add that this thread has been a damn good example in how mob violence works. The masses of people who refuse to think when challenged on their beliefs. I think only two people in this thread have addressed the arguments I've made and a whole bunch of people have piled on the sacrificial violence train.
In the meantime, the only tool most of you have in your arsenal is "He's not the other guy and that's as far as I'm willing to think about it". Haven't you ever thought that if you always play the lesser-of-two-evils game, that you're allowing the "evil" to draw the parameters? All the "evil" party has to do is keep on moving further in the direction of "evil" and then the lesser-of-two-evils keeps getting more and more evil. It's really not that hard to grok. And your Dems have been deliberately playing this game for a long time, so as I've said before: it's either stupidity or vested interest, and I don't think it's stupidity.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Ned, damn you, man. You got
Ned, damn you, man. You got me on fucking loophole.
:)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'm honored, Javs.
I'm honored, Javs.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
javs you're disingenuous
javs you're disingenuous because you know you've never said it,
so why not make it $1000?
How about not trying to make people jump through your hoop and donate that bone anyway?
or
are you gonna continue being that guy?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I don't care if you're from
I don't care if you're from Chile, Colorado or Texas. You dislike Biden, you would never vote for him in the first place, and you wrote a tome on how one of his potential veep picks is a capitalist from a wealthy family. Were you trying to mansplain to us yet another reason why we shouldn't vote for Biden? Jesus, the guy is pro business and in the center. Of course he's going to pick a veep along those lines.
You, Javs, are the one judging people for voting for Biden. I really don't give a flying fuck who someone votes for. It's their right, and I'd like to see well more than 60-% exercise that right.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
thod cares so much about the
thod cares so much about the disenfranchised -- yet fought against the only candidate that was actually representing those thod now pretends to care about.
so much awesome.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> thod cares so much about
>>> thod cares so much about the disenfranchised -- yet fought against the only candidate that was actually representing those thod now pretends to care about. <<<
your beloved savior bernie is gonna headline the first night of the democratic national convention.
bernie gets it.
why don't you?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Susan doesn't think Benghazi
Susan doesn't think Benghazi will be a problem. Coming in hot....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I'm on the zone exhausting
I'm on the zone exhausting people who are fighting against injustice??????? Hahahahahahahahahhahahah. OMG that's fucking funny. Bunch of old, pot-growing Deadheads on a music board are now warriors against injustice. Sorry, didn't mean to open a debate on your very serious platform dedicated to fighting social injustice. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, what a fucking trip this place is.
And I already donated to the Zone, Chachi. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I'm not judging anyone for
I'm not judging anyone for anything, BK, just you for being an asshole.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
But I stand by my comment -
But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Every four years a bunch of
Every four years a bunch of old farts who took too much acid in their youth read too many media stories and find themselves thinking they are political experts. These boring debates go on and on until the next jerk off is elected then for the next three years they have to validate their dude. They are true battlers of socio economic inequality for sure. Fighting the good fight of arguing like morons on a burn out dbmb. Classic.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
^ Timpy still thinks he's
^ Timpy still thinks he's above the fray.
LOL Wrong (again), Timpy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Slapfighters gonna slapfight.
Slapfighters gonna slapfight.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You are so full of shit with
You are so full of shit with your arrogance. You've created a black/white situation, and you sure as hell are judging people who don't think the way you do. You've decided what "real" progressives think and do, and hold them to your standards. It's all up there, in post after post of yours.
It's not black/white. There is a whole hell of a lot of gray area. You've decided that Biden is evil. You know ahead of time that you won't like his policies. You are holding his voters culpable for what you perceive as crimes.
Yeah, you never called the US evil. You have, in post after post, painted policies as extremely negative. You have painted Americans as the most privileged. You have smack-talked corporations. And you are not wrong about any of it. Without saying the words, you have painted the US as the evil empire that we are.
Where I disagree with you is on how to fix it. I have said, over and over, that it has to be grassroots. Top-down shit from the Executive yields executive orders, not the lasting change of hearts and minds. We need more progressives in local government, state government, and in Congress. That's when and how real change will come. As far as I can see, right now we need an executive who will stabilize shit and start bringing us together. That's what a President should be.
Disagree all you want. Judge me for casting a vote for someone who I think will be best for the country, right now, and hold me responsible for his fuck-ups. Whatever.
I'm in Vermont and can vote for whomever I want, knowing that our electoral votes will go to Biden. For me, this election is different. Trump will contest it when he loses. Although the popular vote is meaningless, it holds a lot of symbolism. If he loses by 2 million popular voles, he'll be emboldened. If he loses by 10 million popular votes, that takes a ton of wind out of his sails. I do t see it as "voting for the lesser of 2 evils." I see it as doing what is necessary to remove the malignancy that sits in the Oval Office, and is making a mockery of the people and the Constitution. We can agree to disagree on all that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
over 165,000 US Americans dead right now because of trump.
black and brown voter suppression will be at the worst we've ever seen.
I'm pretty sure anyone with the smallest clue knows what's at stake.
moving forward from this global pandemic vs trump
but, there will always be a group that will never be able to think past their own selfish reasons,
all under the guise of thinking they're righteous, smh
and so it goes...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> But I stand by my comment
>> But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote. <<
Javs...that is you opinion, and nothing more. Most people are less rigid and use a little more nuance. Some will vote on a single issue (abortion, weed, gunz, immigration, etc) and are willing to accept the collateral stuff if the candidate advocates their one issue. Personally, I'm voting against Trump and would have voted for the Democratic candidate regardless of who they were.
What is you alternative, to not vote at all if a candidate doesn't wholly represent your values 100%, or to write-in someone that does?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
the gaslighting by the butt
the gaslighting by the butt hurt bernie bros is rising to new levels. even Timpon showed up to tell us how it is and what we're thinking.....hahahaha
Biden/Rice 2020 - lets go bitches!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
This just occurred to me; are
This just occurred to me; are you a chess player? As you are playing, you're looking ahead to moves that both you and your opponent may make and the consequences as the moves unfold. It's never just the move you're making, but the moves your opponent will make and then yours in response. Right?
Lay out domino chains? Card player? Project manager? You get the idea, right?
When we vote for a candidate, we're planning for the long haul, not just the next move. I'm voting for the coalitions they can build to accomplish their goals. I hope their goals are my goals, though not necessarily our immediate goals, more likely into the future.
For example, creating group food security isn't an overnight thing, it's farming, distribution, sales, and starts with a seed. Same with candidates for leadership.
The critical thing right now is replacing the present guy (and his cronies). A fucking monkey might do a better job. But seriously, and this is serious, Biden and whoever are going to stop the immediate destruction we're living (and dying) with. Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources... it's a very long a list of what needs to be done.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Did somebody say something?
Did somebody say something? Funny, I thought I heard the sound of two jive turkeys clucking.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Judit
Judit
chess
nice presentation, compassion, gentle, idealism grounded in practical behavior, one step at a time with a goal, one more reason to love you
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jazfish
But I stand by my comment -
But I stand by my comment - if you vote for a candidate, then you assume the responsibility for that candidate's actions and policies. Their role is validated by your vote. <<
I haven't read all this thread but that is in no way a plausible statement in a free election.
There are too many situational variances over time.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
I do play chess and Judit, I
I do play chess and Judit, I think you are miscalculating the long-term results of the current moves. In chess you have to learn from the moves that have already been made, look back on them and see the pattern. The pattern in my life, since I was like 10:
R moves Ronnie Reagan. Conservative, trickle down, neolib, yet classical, classy and a statesman. Neolib policies start full swing, rich gettting richer; poor/rich gap starting to grow.
R gets extra turn for solid public manipulation, moves George HW. More conservative, sneaky. But still classy and a statesman. Neolib policies continue. Populace not happy with him as economic policies continue to widen gap.
D moves Billy. Far more conservative than the previous D president (Ford). A good politician, but here the dems introduce the sleaze factor. The being cool to appeal factor. The Arsenio Hall, saxophone playing, intern banging factor. Most love him anyways though. Neolib policies continue, bombings continue, rich/poor gap continues. R's see the opening for an everyman factor in politics.
R moves W. Far more right now than HW. Controlled by a dark cabal of neolib neocon sons of bitches. Appears on TV cutting wood with a chainsaw and dodging shoes. Says stupid things but people think he's cute. 9/11, political tide, war, war, war, state surveillance, Patriot Act, military hardware in the hands of police. 8 years. Wears out the cute welcome. Neolib gap growing more and more.
D moves Barry. Yet more right then Billy, more corporate friendly. Smooth, everyone loves Barry, except of course the racist everyman that W empowered before. Neolib gap continues, drone wars continue, etc.
R moves WAY right, mixes far-right with everyman populist DJT.
Next move, Dems throw a further right neolib neocon, with a big oil big timber friendly VP, more war, more neolib economy, gap continues to grow. Same trajectory as before. Subsequent result in 4 or 8 years? An even further right version of Donny. Or just flat out collapse depending on how long the republic can take the continually growing divide between rich and poor.
I don't think most people here take into consideration the real weight of big oil, big war in the US and ergo the global economy. Every little detail, weapons, bullets, plastic cups in the Mess Hall, stationery for official letters, billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. The entire US economy is dependent on this. And if you think for a second that an establishment president is going to alter the course of that, well, I guess I think you're wrong.
I really don't think that Biden/Rice have this "Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources..." in mind as their policy platforms.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> D moves Billy. Far more
>> D moves Billy. Far more conservative than the previous D president (Ford). <<
You lost me there. Bill Clinton was not more conservative than Ford (R). And Obama went left of Clinton with the ACA, something that Clinton couldn't accomplish.
And yes, "Rebuilding social programs, taking care of elders and youths, restoring water and earth resources..." is part of the Biden policy platform. Just because you don't believe it doesn't reverse their platform.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>>And if you think for a
>>>And if you think for a second that an establishment president is going to alter the course of that, well, I guess I think you're wrong.
You're absolutely correct, no president, establishment or otherwise, has the ability to change the entire system. That will take time and has to come from Congress.
Top down vs. bottom up. I believe that you and I differ on how to make it happen.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
There should be a place in
There should be a place in America that someone can point to as an example of successful policy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> I don't think most people
>>> I don't think most people here take into consideration the real weight of big
oilglobal pandemic.ftfy
All those things you mentioned in your lengthy (big brain) post
doesn't mean dick
if we don't vote out trump.
can you wrap that around that big head of yours?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
There is an election coming
There is a vote coming up in less then 90 days.
American people have the ability to chose a leader.
One candidate seems incompetent in his ability to do the job.
The chess mans approach to American politics seems skewed. At least to me. But that's just me.
To support an incompetent person during a pandemic because those evil corporate pig democrats R the devil incorporate lacks common sense.
ymmv
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
well, i hope that the mighty
well, i hope that the mighty dnc has done its woo-ing of voters in states that are contested otherwise all this posturing and blather doesn't mean jack-doodly-squat.
then we can go back to seeing the slow decay of our society instead of dumpster donny's fast track approach.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
yep
yep
Biden/Rice 2020
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
TRUMP 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TRUMP 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEAH, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 MORE YEARS, JUST TO WATCH YOUR TEARS
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
i mean besides the compromise
i mean besides the compromise health care deal what did 16 yrs of dems in charge do for the avg. american?
answer: not much... hence the donald and the further entrenchment of right-wing ideology...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
What's more important, getting the pandemic under control
or
whiny politics?
because, the pandemic don't give a shit about your politics
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Jav, I think the patterns you
Jav, I think the patterns you're looking back on are broken and the moves aren't the ones we're used to. DJT and friends are breaking what's breakable.
Yes, oil has been king, but now as T.O.D. pointed out, we're also dealing with other things as well. The killing of so many people by our gov't's response, and lack thereof) to Covid-19 is a really big deal. So, there's a lot to come back from. Sustaining the oil economy should be way lower down the list than it is. I presume that Biden gets where we're at in terms of what really matters. Why? Because we are so far fucked right now.
I'm no longer looking at political platforms, I'm looking at how can we save what and who we can. I used to think we had the ability and responsibility to save global population health and welfare. Now I'm not so sure the USA can do that. But we can start in our cities and farmlands. And we could get people like Jeff fucking Bezos to support the programs we are desperately in need of. I really don't like that guy; I don't believe it's right for people to have billions of dollars when others are starving, etc. I guess that might seem like an aside but it's not. It can't be all about the election, it has to be about how the hell we crawl out of where we are..
I agree, Turtle. I hope someone is reaching out to the people who can make a difference (and that we go back to slow decay as we crawl out).
Dan, your mean-spiritedness is hard to take. Wishing us ill hurts. No thanks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Ban dan
Ban dan
well at least give him ban deodorant
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Meanwhile, Trump is quietly
Meanwhile, Trump is quietly in the process of lowering the federal poverty line. If he succeeds, it means more people will be substantially worse off: less housing support, less healthcare, fewer kids on free and reduced lunch, etc.
Lets all wrap our minds around that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
BK, every one of these things
BK, every one of these things hurts my heart.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
What's the appeal, Dan?
Is it Trump's incompetence, his racism, his dishonesty, his narcissism, his misogyny, his vindictive nature, his lack of empathy, his corruption, his authoritarian instincts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Even the smart conservatives
Even the smart conservatives want Trump gone.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Dan thinks it should be an
Dan thinks people that can't afford California without assistance should split. Most people here agree with him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Please stay here slacker
Please stay here slacker
now Dan ... ....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
You may not believe it, Slack
You may not believe it, Slack, but I'm with you. Property values in my town are spiking, and it means that average people an no longer afford to buy here. The house 2 doors down just went on the market for $410k, and got multiple cash offers. On one hand it's great, it the reality is that it isn't right. Rich fucks from Florida and Texas are literally driving around and making outrageous cash offers.
Meanwhile, my rental is well below fair market value, so that working class people can afford to live there. If I was to sell right now, I'd price it below value and only sell to a working class family. It's something I've done before, and I'll do it again. I honestly hope that this little bubble bursts very quickly. Life is not about the almighty dollar.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Thod do you have a job right
Thod do you have a job right now or are you collecting the socialist money? Just wondering bradi diddly brah. Seems like you have endless hours to post on here. Makes it more impressive that you run through the same exact discussion on every thread too. I would say you're on the verge of lunacy, bud.
The definition of "insanity" is repeating the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
There is a vote coming up in
There is a vote coming up in less then 90 days.
American people have the ability to chose a leader.
One candidate seems incompetent in his ability to do the job.
The chess mans approach to American politics seems skewed. <<<< Ding ding ding
LOOK Up ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> Thod do you have a job right now or are you collecting the socialist money? <<<
you have no idea kid...
now stay in the shallow end so the adults can have a conversation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Yo, Timpane and T.O.D., the
Yo, Timpane and T.O.D., the thread has gotten a lot more on topic and less tit-for-tat on each other's backs. Please back away from that, and from the black screen if you don't want to be kind.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Your discussion is a broken
Your discussion is a broken fucking record, Thod. And looking at your posts it's hard to consider you an adult. You guys are nothing more th just a bunch of punk ass little boys. Enjoy your political circle jerk that you can't stop having. Round and round you go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
yeah your right Judit, I shouldn't have responded to his weak ass attempt at an attack,
thanks for helping clear that up.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
>>> Your discussion is a
>>> Your discussion is a broken fucking record, Thod. And looking at your posts it's hard to consider you an adult. You guys are nothing more th just a bunch of punk ass little boys. Enjoy your political circle jerk that you can't stop having. Round and round you go <<<
...and yet you're still here, smh
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Lol, have fun getting your
Lol, have fun getting your rocks off on this discussion. Keep seeking validation little boy. You have a lot to learn about acceptance and your mental illness. Good luck.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
sure thing, sweetheart
sure thing, sweetheart
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
thod trashed bernie's
thod trashed bernie's policies but now he cares.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
(((zero dimensional chess)))
(((zero dimensional chess)))
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
The was a sweet meltdown.
The was a sweet meltdown. Congratulations. Blahahaha haha
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>than the previous D
>>>>>than the previous D president (Ford)
That would be Carter.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
You're either making every
You're either making every effort in the world to vote for biden or not. end of discussion. bernie will speaking at the convention because he knows the catastrophe and collapse 4 more years of Trump will bring. the corona virus may literally go on forever in some shape or form if trump remains.
and also, thank you brian k and thod for standing up to the bullies.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Javs is the 1%.
Javs is the 1o%.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Curious
Curious
two things:
1) Can we have 20 posts without insulting other Zoners?
2) all of you with strong opinions, and many things that you may disagree with, or don't like..: who would you prefer as Biden's VP, weather or not you would / will vote for that ticket ?
thank you for sharing your thoughts. (Try to keep them positive )
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Curious
Thank you in advance for your thoughts. (Try to keep them positive )
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
My question, along the
My question, along the similar lines, is if you'd never vote for Biden, why spend so much time and energy on his potential veep?
Poor Pence. That sick fuck has been around for 4 years, and he's never received the Zone scrutiny that Rice has in only a week.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
To answer your question, LLTD
To answer your question, LLTD, I don't really care who he picks. They are all qualified, and they all have a black mark or two. At the end of the day, Biden will be boss. It's not like the person is going to go lone wolf and push through policies that Biden doesn't agree with.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Biden is going to rid the
Biden is going to rid the country of coronavirus by a wave of a magic wand
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
you already know how trump
you already know how trump has handled it,
you think biden could do a better job?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Biden will forget when he
Biden will forget when he said he would do something like announce his vp by end of first week of August.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> they all have a black mark
> they all have a black mark or two
That's a trope that needs updating, BK.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
Maybe Biden can get Sarah
Maybe Biden can get Sarah Palin to join his ticket.
That way TIna Fay can also benefit.
Plus she can see the Ruakies from her back yard.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
^^^^ of course not.
^^^^ of course not.
biden is against proving healthcare for all humans -- he doesn't care if people die, just like trump.
has biden said a vaccine should be free ?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>That's a trope that needs
>>That's a trope that needs updating, BK.
I thought about that after I posted it. Isn't it from Treasure Island?
It's so hard to know these days. What would we change it to?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
If you want to stick with a
If you want to stick with a metaphor, "she has baggage" would work. Or you could just say she has liabilities.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
You guys do realize that all
You guys do realize that all these opinions don't mean squat, right? Are you folks doing anything locally to help change things?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Slick, I break down my boxes
Slick, I break down my boxes for recycling.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
I only flush the brown
Same here. I also only flush the brown.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
hahahaahahahahaha
hahahaahahahahaha
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
That's one Mr. Bean looking
That's one Mr. Bean looking mofo, huh?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Right on Ned and BSS. I knew
Right on Ned and BSS. I knew I could count on you guys. LOL.
This thread reminds me of the politically incorrect meme about arguing on the internet. Does anyone actually think they'll convince anybody else of anything? But have fun and enjoy your day!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> Does anyone actually think
>> Does anyone actually think they'll convince anybody else of anything? <<
Of course not, but taking it out on Timpy/Pheater is better than kicking the dog, no?
Slick.... just locked down a Labyrinth Canyon trip around October 1 full moon :)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Nice - got any room? Green
Nice - got any room? Green River to Mineral or going down to the confluence? Tex's doesn't take boats. I may go down Labyrinth mid-Sept. Taking 3 weeks off.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Ruby Ranch to Mineral Bottom.
Ruby Ranch to Mineral Bottom. No extra room at this time, unfortunately.
1 raft and 1 canoe.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
>>> Of course not, but taking
>>> Of course not, but taking it out on Timpy/Pheater is better than kicking the dog, no?
LOL. I tired of those two quite quickly. There's no talking to them. They so smart - they think.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sigmund
The Pick is in>>>>
The Pick is in>>>>
C'mon No Jamarcus Russell !
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
We were doing pretty well
We were doing pretty well with only minimal insults team
back to form please and ty
without judgment or insults: How many of you all are voting for trump?
it a free country No one should disparage you, We are all together on this one planet...
LLTD will not be
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
So who will Biden pick? This
So who will Biden pick? This whole thread is much 2 do about nothing. So what?
Viva political threads R so fun. We have zero dimensional chess players, Bernie Bots & Jerry tour heads who support the Don.
That's half the fun of it. As for rhe other half, uh let me get back to Viva about that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
<<How many of you all are
<<How many of you all are voting for trump?
Javs
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
If you can't make a better
If you can't make a better thread, why critique one?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Deadly
Kamala
Kamala
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Cool. Can't wait to see her
Cool. Can't wait to see her shred Pence in a debate.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
& the winner is Kamala Harris
& the winner is Kamala Harris.
looking forward 2 the Zononer response.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
An actual law and order
An actual law and order candidate. She will make a fine Veep..and President
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
very disappointed. i will be
very disappointed. i will be taking a hiatus from the zone. good bye friends.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
Great choice, she will
Great choice, she will emasculate both Trump and Pence.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
My kind of warrior.
My kind of warrior.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
identity politics is big
identity politics is big
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Maya Rudolf's stock just went
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Trump and Ivanka donated to
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
Mike pence is currently busy
Mike pence is currently busy shitting his pants.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Will Mother have to escort
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> Trump and Ivanka donated to
> Trump and Ivanka donated to Harris's campaign in 2011, 2013 and 2014
That frickin' hilarious.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
Identity politics is big
Identity politics is big <<<<<<
this ! ^^
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
Biden ~ Harris Ticket
Biden ~ Harris Ticket
Trump Probably Wants To Kick Pence to The Curb Now and Fast !
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Solid choice to enable
Solid choice to enable
defeating trump "#1 enemy if the free world". We can start repairing some of the damage hopefully
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
>Will Mother have to escort
>Will Mother have to escort him on stage at the debate?<
lols...what a freako.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
didn't kamala call biden
didn't kamala call biden racist in the debates?
funny.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
She called him out on his
She called him out for his support of bussing, but didn't call him racist.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
I got my own rig, Ned. No
I got my own rig, Ned. No need for room on a boat. Thanks for the reminder of the full moon. We may end up on there around same time anyway!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
So, what are the chances
So, what are the chances Trump dumps Pence and puts Nikki Haley up as his running mate now?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
If Trump did pick Haley, then
If Trump did pick Haley, then we'd have our first Asian-American female VP whichever way it falls.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Wanted to let everyone know
Wanted to let everyone know that I decided to come back to the zone and am okay, now. Did some soul searching and have re-found my purpose: fight against the "twitter progressives" and bernie trolls — more than willing to put abortions into back alleys so they can stroke their fragile little egos. You all know who you are and have been put on notice.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: I rang a silent bell
300
300
we have a vp pick and new thread
let this stinky thread drop
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Racketinmyhead
Welcome home ((((((JR)))))).
Welcome home ((((((Jeff JR)))))).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
good to have you back JR.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
slick, ned, and our other
slick, ned, and our other neoliberals here should be happy trump and his shitty family donated to harris' campaign several times -- he liked what he saw, and kept giving.
slick is a republican disguised as a dem, lol, who thinks he cares and votes for the environment. good stuff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
>>> didn't kamala call biden
>>> didn't kamala call biden racist in the debates? <<<
Can we call both men and women by either last name or first, but not women by their first and men by their last?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Heat is very cold
Heat is very cold
give it up son
just let go
or continue going completely batshit crazy
----not psychobabble ---
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ogkb
neoliberals appeal to people
neoliberals appeal to people like the trumps, this is not new.
let what go? letting go is what the dems want, it's what they count on.
sorry, confused liberals, like our psychobabble king above, the kind that think "all lives matter" (you still don't get that one, do you, lltd?), is what pelosi, schumer, and the rest of the republican-lites foam at the mouth for -- people who think the dems are the party that represent the people, our true values, honest, care about the poor and working classes -- when the reality of the situation is the opposite -- they, just like the republicans that lltd says he literally hates, lol, are working for their corporate masters, that's it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>people who think the
>>>>>people who think the dems are the party that represent the people, our true values, honest, care about the poor and working classes -- when the reality of the situation is the opposite
Not at all. We're not confused. We just know the world will be marginally better if Biden beats Trump.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
This is the progression of
This is the progression of the conservativism scale over the last 40 years or so:
1 Most Liberal - 10 Hard conservative
Carter: 1
Ford: Not sure
Reagan: 5
HW: 6
Clinton: 4
W: 7
Obama: 5
Trump: 9
Do you see the pattern? This is what the lesser-of-two-evils creates. Cause and effect. By voting for the lesser-of-two-evils you don't ameliorate the effects of the right - you deepen them. What's next?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
Javs, if you were a US
Javs, if you were a US citizen....
Who would you vote for
trump or biden?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
You still have Carter and
You still have Carter and Ford reversed.
So Obama is equiivalent to Reagan?
Don't think so.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Do I have to pay rent for the
Do I have to pay rent for the space in your head, heat? Should be pretty cheap. There's a lot of empty space in there. Geez, you need a new shtick.
And JR, just wondering if you could find something more productive than wasting your time "fighting" the trolls on the internet. They couldn't be more irrelevant, and that's what frustrates them. Kinda funny.
To quote Brandi in "The Joke", "Let 'em spin. Let 'em scatter in the wind".
Whatever. Ya'll have a good day. Be well and stay safe.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> What's next? <<
>> What's next? <<
Well, I'm certainly not voting for Trump. Would you, Javs?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"So Obama is equiivalent to
"So Obama is equiivalent to Reagan?"
I think arguably, in many ways yes. Economically, militarily, not all that different. There are some other areas where there may be differences. I'm pretty sure Obama was more of an environmentalist in terms of preserving lands, but I don't think that was much of a measuring stick in the 80s though; it didn't have the same weight back then that it does now. Where would you put them on the scale?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
"Well, I'm certainly not
"Well, I'm certainly not voting for Trump. Would you, Javs?"
No Ned, I would not. I would not vote at all in this election, assuming I had the ability to do so.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
^ That, sir, is irresponsible
^ That, sir, is irresponsible. Yet, it would be your right to do so.
And, comparing Obama to Reagan is laughable. Obama: passed ACA, grew EPA, shrunk the military, and tons of differences.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Shrunk the military? That's a
Shrunk the military? That's a bold claim. Reduced the amount of troops in Afghanistan are two different things. I would venture to guess that military budgets continued to increase during his time.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Reagan pretty much brought an
Reagan pretty much brought an end to the cold war, signed several disarmament treaties with Gorbachev, right?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
According to one article,
According to one article, probably a conservative source, Reagan and the EPA:
"Ruckelshaus demonstrated that a conservative Republican administration can be a faithful environmental steward. Under Ruckelshaus, the EPA acted to protect the Earth’s ozone layer from destruction by toxic chemicals. He launched the agency’s initiatives to phase out gasoline lead additives and to ban asbestos.
Ruckelshaus’ appointment helped neutralize some of the environmental outrage that Gorsuch and Watt had engendered. Without a functional EPA, it would have been very hard for the GOP to state with any credibility in its 1984 platform that Republicans supported “continued commitment to clean air and clean water,” and that “the health and well being of our citizens must be a high priority.”"
https://theconversation.com/what-next-for-the-epa-heres-what-reagan-did-...(I have no idea what this source is, for the record)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
According to another source
According to another source (don't know it, but the facts can be researched):
"Republicans for Environmental Protection, an organization that has been a staunch critic of Bush’s environmental record, posted a glowing In Memoriam to Reagan on their website Monday: “REP America joins every citizen in bidding a sad farewell to President Ronald Reagan. His wilderness protection achievements are an enduring legacy for the American people. President Reagan signed into law 38 bills that added more than 10.6 million acres of spectacular forests, mountains, deserts, and wetlands to the National Wilderness Preservation System.”"
https://grist.org/article/griscom-reagan/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
James Watt was Reagan's
James Watt was Reagan's Secretary of the Interior:
In 1980, President-elect Reagan nominated Watt as his Secretary of the Interior. The United States Senate subsequently confirmed the nomination.
His tenure as Secretary of the Interior was controversial, primarily because he was perceived as being hostile to environmentalism, and endorsed development of federal lands by foresting and ranching, and for other commercial interests.
According to the Center for Biological Diversity, Watt had the record, among those who served as Secretary of the Interior, of listing the fewest species protected under the Endangered Species Act. The record was later surpassed by Dirk Kempthorne, a George W. Bush appointee who, as of August 27, 2007 [needs update], had not listed a single species in the 15-month period since his confirmation.[4]
Greg Wetstone, the chief environment counsel at the House Energy and Commerce Committee during the Reagan administration, who subsequently served as director of advocacy at the Natural Resources Defense Council, argued that Watt was one of the two most "intensely controversial and blatantly anti-environmental political appointees" in American history. The other was Anne Gorsuch, director of the EPA at the time.[5] Environmental groups accused Watt of reducing funding for environmental programs,[6] restructuring the department to decrease federal regulatory power,[6] wanting to eliminate the Land and Water Conservation Fund which aimed at increasing the area of wildlife refuges and other protected land,[6] easing regulations of oil[6] and mining,[6][7] directing the National Park Service to draft rules that would de-authorize congressionally authorized national parks,[citation needed] and recommending lease of wilderness and shore lands such as Santa Monica Bay to explore and develop oil and gas.[6]
Watt resisted accepting donation of private land to be used for conservation.[8] He suggested that 80 million acres (320,000 km²) of undeveloped land in the United States all be opened for drilling and mining by 2000.[8] The area leased to coal mining quintupled during his term as Secretary of the Interior.[8] Watt boasted that he leased "a billion acres" (4 million km²) of coastal waters, even though only a small portion of that area would ever be drilled.[8] Watt once stated, "We will mine more, drill more, cut more timber."[9][dubious – discuss]
Watt periodically mentioned his Dispensationalist Christian faith when discussing his method of environmental management. Speaking before Congress, he once said, "I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns, whatever it is we have to manage with a skill to leave the resources needed for future generations."[10]
One apocryphal quotation falsely attributed to Watt is: "After the last tree is felled, Christ will come back." Glenn Scherer, writing for Grist magazine, erroneously attributed this remark to 1981 testimony by Watt before Congress.[11] Journalist Bill Moyers, relying on the Grist article, also attributed the comment to Watt. After it was discovered that the alleged quotation did not exist, Grist corrected the error, and Moyers apologized.[12]
"I never said it. Never believed it. Never even thought it," Watt later wrote of the statement. "I know no Christian who believes or preaches such error. The Bible commands conservation — that we as Christians be careful stewards of the land and resources entrusted to us by the Creator."[13]
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
That's an interesting read,
That's an interesting read, Ned. Thanks for posting that. I think the Obama /Reagan comparison is an interesting discussion for academic reasons more than anything. Where exactly they sit in relationship to each other in terms of how conservative they are. It's interesting what you post about the Secretary of Interior and the conflicting claim from my (probably conservative) source saying the head of the EPA protected so much land, etc. I'm too lazy to research the stats now.
But I think it's undeniable that Obama was much more conservative than say Kenney or Carter. And that Trump and W were far more conservative than HW, Reagan and Ford. Is that correct? Because if that's the case, then you can see a clear pattern of the political center being pushed to the right over the years, until now what passes for left-wing, is somewhere in the neighborhood of an 80s right-wing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: long live the dead
Lolol
Lolol
heat causes meltdowns
psychobabble exists in your butthurt posts
or look in the mirror you will see
please never stop. I could relax my sphincter today with a hearty belly laugh at your post above
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
> I think it's undeniable
> I think it's undeniable that Obama was much more conservative than say Kenney or Carter. And that Trump and W were far more conservative than HW, Reagan and Ford. Is that correct?
No that is not correct. It is clueless.
The Don is a snake oil salesmen. He will say whatever he thinks will work that day, then say the opposite a day later.
That is neither conservative or liberal politics. The best description would be charlatan politics.
Comparing 50 years of political thought as being all the same, regardless of the time period it happens shows complete and utter ignorance.
To say that "By voting first or the lesser-of-two-evils you don't ameliorate the effects of the right - you deepen them," is beyond foolish. It is less then zero dimensional checkers. It is more like zero dimensional tic tack toe.
That said, feel free to keep bloviating your nonsense.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
The whole chess game analogy
The whole chess game analogy holds no water. It pre-supposes that there's some deep conspiracy, that has lasted for well over 60 years, to bring this nation to the right, and both parties are a part of it.
What the theory doesn't take into account is the reality of the American people. This has always been a very conservative nation. Although pockets have become more liberal, there are shit-ton of far right whackos and religious zealots. Although a majority want both universal health and a $15 minimum wage (around 66% for both), they will never align with "progressivism."
In almost 250 years we have had one non white president, and one Catholic president. Kamala Harris is only the second Black woman in the Senate. The "Red Scare" ended only 30 years ago, and the Committee on UnAmerican Affairs was 70 years ago. By in large, the United States is and has been conservative. The notion of some long-term conspiracy to move us to the right shows absolutely no understanding of the American psyche or history.
Or, is it yet another case of selective history to back a dim-witted theory?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
the red scare is still going
the red scare is still going on calling people socialists.
>deep conspiracy, that has lasted for well over 60 years, to bring this nation to the right, and both parties are a part of it.<
well, if you don't think there HASN'T been this movement you are living under a rock. ever hear of think tanks or the koch bros?
the federalist society?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
No, Turts, calling someone
No, Turts, calling someone who spouts Socialist talking points and links to Socialist website a "Socialist" isn't part of the red scare. Spin it any way you want, but you're barking up the wrong tree and creating a false narrative to change the conversation. Don't lay the historical context on me. For our purposes, here, it's not applicable. Socialism is an economic ideology, not a bad word. Deal with it.
Okay, go ahead and believe that there's a vast conspiracy that's ruling our lives and controlling all levels of government. I believe that there are wealthy people with way too much power, no more or less.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
bk, many people do not have
bk, many people do not have the sophistication to distinguish the term communist from socialist. to them its the same fucking thing.
your avg. fox viewer?
the center has been shifted so far to the right, bringing up the comparisons of past presidents and their records.
and i am not necessarily just talking about your back and forth with javs.
SOCIALIST is a boogey man word used by people to paint them as un-american.
deal with it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
It's used to describe working
It's used to describe working class people that don't support trickle down economics.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'm not an idiot. I fully
I'm not an idiot. I fully understand why Trump is already calling Harris a "Socialist." Most Americans do t know the difference between Communist and Socialist, nor can they name the 3 branches of government and their roles.
You're making my point for me. We live in a country with very conservative and capitalist ideals. It's not new, and it wasn't planted by the Koch Bro's. It goes back 400 years.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>It's used to describe
>>It's used to describe working class people that don't support trickle down economics.
I'm working class, don't support trickle down, and have never been called a Socialist. Have you considered moving away from California? People there seem like close-minded dicks.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
We're paying the rent. The
We're paying the rent. The people who can't can leave.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
When I mentioned chess I
When I mentioned chess I brought it up to say that we need to work for the future, not just for the now. I didn't think about looking back, I was just thinking about the future. I think that works, in that we can't and shouldn't expect that whoever gets elected won't be able to make all the desired change right away, we have to make moves one at a time.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
"Kamala Harris is only the
"Kamala Harris is only the second Black woman in the Senate."
Why was she swore into the Senate as the 1st Indian-American?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4899074/senator-kamala-harris-sworn-vice-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris
"Kamala Devi Harris was born on October 20, 1964, in Oakland, California.[3] Her mother, Shyamala Gopalan, was a breast-cancer scientist who had emigrated from Tamil Nadu, India in 1960 to pursue a doctorate in endocrinology at UC Berkeley.[11] Her father, Donald J. Harris, is a Stanford University emeritus professor of economics, who emigrated from British Jamaica in 1961 for graduate study in economics at UC Berkeley."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
There R both right & left
There R both right & left think tanks that toss out notions promoting and supporting their approach.
These days people read less and plug into whatever news sources that support their views and beliefs.
As to whether Americans are more or less conservative now then they were 60 years ago, I'm not sure.
Partially that question seems to depend on which way the wind blows.
Most people tend to support political approaches they learn at a young age.
Obviously, there are exceptions.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Andean Flight
Lol
Lol
Foreigner
Socialist
Agitator
Thinks America is Evil
Socialist
and now......
Conspiracy Theorist
It's starting to sound like someone has a strange boogeyman invented in their heads and is oddly obssessed with me and needs to project all that on me. Creepy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
I'm sure you think that, and
I'm sure you think that, and most of what you think turns out to be bolderdash.
i don't care where you're from.
You spout Socialist talking points.
I've never called anyone an agitator.
You had post after post explaining how America has messed up the world.
You brought up some cockamamie chess game theory about a steady move to the right.
Jesus, get a grip on yourself. The only creepy thing here is your arrogance.