Check out this Proud Boy

Portland whackos.

I'll take it that's a rhetorical question Ken....

Thanks very much for the reporting and great photos.

I appreciate all of your Portland coverage.

I was watching a stream (couple of them actually) of this exact thing, thinking wtf a stealie tie dye? 
 

total fuckin creepshow out there tonight. Saw multiple fights, Bear mace sprayings, a dude got his wig split with a bat I think but couldn't see clearly enough, lots of guns on everybody. Ski masks. Lots of like, small penis truck engine revving, *almost but not quite* hitting people with said trucks. The whole shit.

at a VIGIL. 

Just awful. Stay way safe ken. Woo what a week this is gonna be.

No shit BSS.  Buckle up.

Thanks ken.

^ Could that be the Zone's favorite own political operative, Bryen? "Someone said" he's on tour going to every show rally and vigil. Did the dude wish the anarchists, namaste, before brawling?

He’s seen more rallies then anyone here

Wow, Ken. Please STAY SAFE. Thanks for the photos and THANKS for standing up. But these a-holes ain't worth getting your skull beat in. 

what's up with oregonians?

This is WA 

but yeah

logger spawn 

Don't these fucking "militias" understand that their roll is to protect protesters from the government, not to be vigilantes for the government?

oops...

just really sad that this shit is gaining traction.

its like its ok to be an open racist shit bag, encouraged even

this is all fueled by fox, right wing radio, facebook?

the election of the current potus is what fueled the emboldening of the racists now proudly displaying their shitty beliefs. 

>>>>wtf a stealie tie dye? 

First they took our Hawaiian shirts, then our Fred Perry polo shirts/laurels...and now this???

>>>Don't these fucking "militias" understand that their roll is to protect protesters from the government, not to be vigilantes for the government?<<<

check this thread out Brian 

https://twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1321843659248177154

Holy fuck, the nutso in this country has finally risen to the surface. It was always simmering in the background, but now it's front and center.

If there's an upside, maybe now that it's so overt we can confront it head on. I just hope that good people on one side don't die in the process.

I'm inches away from going out and getting a gun. The revolution is going to come from these fascist Nazis, and they are armed to the hilt.

that's a blackwater built 1041 or 1042 (can't tell from photo), in private hands. This particular outfit actually owns a whole fleet of them, and equips law enforcement agencies all over the country with armored vehicles, ballistic protection, NVG'S, that sort of thing. 

couple weeks ago when I said we are on the precipice of a civil war, at least in the northwest, I wasn't being ridiculous or trying to stir emotion.

the oath keepers have already declared as such https://newrepublic.com/article/159174/oath-keepers-militias-trump-fascism

yeah sure I talk plenty of shit on here, but as a career soldier this is subject matter I'm actually quite familiar with.

Do you guys believe me yet?

I don't doubt that we're on the precipice of civil war. My big question is, who is going to take arms against these fascist pigs? Will it be the police or National Guard, or will it be normal citizens who expect the authorities to protect them from fascism?

How long were you in the military, Bss?

If I had the answer to that I would be charging by the keystroke. 
 

Seventeen years 

Armored Cavalry

Abrams tanks

and no I never killed anybody

and yes I grew weed almost the entire time

Thank you for your service!

People with less clue than you go on CNN and Fox News all the time, and make tons of cash doing it.

Yes joy of course

The reason your question is so complicated brian is because police/national guard (state actors with all kinds of crazy ideas and loyalties, as well as a full monopoly on violence), private militias, etc (non-state actors involving the entire spectrum of pro *fascist/nationalist* and anti-state *anarchist* actors side by side), and "regular citizens" (assuming folks who mostly harbor anti-racist, anti-fascist tendencies) is basically something like a three way gunfight. Who is who? Who is loyal to whom? Who is acting in good faith? Who wants to do violence and who only seeks to defend? All very tough to tell.

Something like Syria or Kurdistan with much better pizza

^wow

so are people now doing protests every time a black person is killed by police regardless of context? many credible reports in major media outlets are reporting he "displayed a handgun" while fleeing/during an altercation with police, and so far have not seen any credible reports that would indicate he was unarmed or not a threat...im sure more concrete stories will come out as well as hopefully bodycam footage, so of course for now its not possible to say what happened one way or the other, and of course there is nothing wrong with a candlelight vigil for someone regardless of whether they were a victim of unjustified violence or were a victim of social ills and their own choices, but usually candlelight vigils dont include armed demonstrators with histories of political violence or rioting.

pretty sure the path to social justice does not include armed partisan demonstrators controlling streets at night, opportunities for political violence masquerading as dubious candlelight vigils and armored military vehicles roaming the streets.  

>>the election of the current potus is what fueled the emboldening of the racists now proudly displaying their shitty beliefs.<<

In my opinion, it was actually the election of the previous one that lit the match. Trump just provided the legitimization/validation.

The threepers established in 2008. Direct far right response to nonsense Obama gun confiscation hysteria. The oath keepers first organized in 2009. Trayvon Martin, 2012. Torch network (response) starts coming online, Zimmerman acquitted, Black lives matter starts taking form, 2013. Tamir Rice. Eric Garner. Michael Brown, Ferguson. 2014. Freddie Gray. 2015. Philando Castile, Alton Sterling, so many more, Standing Rock, right winger kills cops at Dallas protest, 2016 

>>> now enter Trump 2017

dude there is so much

Just wondering, Daylight, is running away from police, even with a gun, enough threat to justify lethal force?

If the cops are in a chase with a car  they know has arms inside, why don't they just drone bomb it?

Just wondering, Daylight, is running away from police, even with a gun, enough threat to justify lethal force?

def not a one size fits all answer. unarmed and running away? 100% no. running away in broad daylight with a gun openly holstered on your hip? no. running away with a gun in hand in broad daylight? maybe. running away in the dark and drawing a gun while running? probably yes. i dont think it is at all a stretch to think that a person who is armed, selling drugs on the streets, and running away from police might at any time decide to turn around and shoot. if a person's intent was to run away and evade police(which tbh ive done on multiple occasions in situations related to drugs, unarmed of course), and they were not considering the option of shooting officers, why would they have drawn their weapon? there could be many answers, maybe he did it mindlessly in a panic, we probably will never know his true motives - and with only the reports coming from police i dont even feel we can trust that he pulled a gun at all...but for the most part yes, i think that someone who is running from police during a mental health crisis or after committing/being investigated for a crime pulling out a weapon while running is a situation where an officer could very justifiably fear for his life.

my feeling on car chases is that outside of running people down who have a very real chance of hurting bystanders - not just being an "armed criminal" but one they believe would actually hurt bystanders and citizens, drunk drivers and other immediate threats the chase should be abandoned after a short time in the interest of public safety.

 "Gentlemen, let's get the thing straight, once and for all. The policeman isn't there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder." 

       - Mayor Richard J. Daley

The short answer, Daylight, is that in almost all cases they could aim for the legs instead of the head of torso. The suspect/criminal would be subdued, police and the public would be safe, and there wouldn't be mass riots over unnecessary deaths. It is that clear cut.

The problem is that too many times that a cop feels threatened, they immediately use lethal force. 

So, an MRAP (a mine resistant ambush protected) carrier is basically what came out of battlefield experience from the first two iterations (OIF I and II) of the illegal Iraq war. Guys were just getting shredded in uparmored humvees, at first only with improvised plating, (which then still couldn't be modified fast enough), standard aluminum hulled personnel carriers, etc. Marines had the cougar and the LAV, and both of their survivabilites are very high. Besides the Bradley the army didn't have anything that effficient yet, and IED technology was advancing very rapidly. You know what a 150 lb manhole cover can do to a truck and crew when it's blasting straight upwards at say, 20k/fps? Instant ugly. So these rolled out with the 2007 surge.

You see there how the hull of the carrier is shaped like a V? This is intended to direct blast energy away from the occupants, and they work very well. RPG or shaped charge (EFP); are literally the only things that will even put a dent in it, and that's if you can get close enough to emplace.  ANTIFA soup cans (even frozen ones) just ain't gonna cut it here. Nor would anything in any standard police arsenals (I think?).

There are a lot of these out there (something like 15k produced), so nice ones are all over the surplus market.

yes, this:

BULLETPROOF-IT provides a comprehensive selection of gear for hostile environments, such as Active Shooter Response Kits, Soft Armor Vests, Ballistic Plates, Face Shields, Mask and Ballistic Hand-Held Shields. These are designed to offer the user maximum protection and resilience during high-risk encounters. When used alongside our body armor, this equipment will ensure the wearer has the most comprehensive protection. We also provide helmets of various kinds, for all ranges of roles within law enforcement, the Armed Forces, from Ground Troops and Special Forces.

>>>The short answer, Daylight, is that in almost all cases they could aim for the legs instead of the head of torso.<<<

respectfully this is as realistic as "whoops, missed".

tinkering with this "thing" at the margins isn't gonna cut it anymore. That's probably a different conversation. Then again it's all linked.

and in the police's defense (honestly), they are trained from day one to be in fear for their lives.

>>> The problem is that too many times that a cop feels threatened, they immediately use lethal force. <<<

yep, because they're protected by qualified immunity 

When one is trained to believe that every exchange they have is more or less a matter of life and death, or could become one at any second,

and

that they are quite literally the "thin blue line" - the only effort holding space between law and order and widespread violence,

and 

that they also probably won't be held accountable even if they do make a bad decision as long as it is in "good faith", 

then

every interaction is basically forced into becoming a binary shoot/don't shoot type of thing.

From my perspective the glaring problem with this "thin blue line" type of belief trafficking is that for the above to be true, it would require the default state of the citizenry to be violent. 

And my belief is that we are overall actually a fairly peaceful society to begin with, and that our default community settings are generally, and overwhelmingly non-violent in nature.

And right now the water is more or less poisoned.

I just did some learning on "shoot for the leg" policies. For a myriad of reasons, it doesn't work to stop dangerous behaviors.

I guess, for me, the bigger question is, "what is a dangerous behavior?" There's a lot of subjectivity and gray area in there. I used to teach at a school for kids with severe behavioral disorders, and physical restraint was kosher for unsafe behavior, "harm to self or others." The amount of restraints was sickening, and often crossed the line to what I would call criminal. They were mostly used for non-compliance, at least 90%+ of them. I have to wonder how many police shootings are for non-compliance rather than safety.

This discussion reminded me of this article:

A Pro-Trump Militant Group Has Recruited Thousands of Police, Soldiers, and Veterans

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/right-wing-militias...

"Rhodes had been talking about civil war since he founded the Oath Keepers, in 2009. But now more people were listening. And whereas Rhodes had once cast himself as a revolutionary in waiting, he now saw his role as defending the president. He had put out a call for his followers to protect the country against what he was calling an “insurrection.” The unrest, he told me, was the latest attempt to undermine Donald Trump...."

Someone here posted (maybe Ned? Idk) that the problem with owning a gun is how you look at every situation as if you might need to use it, where you might've found a more peaceful non-violent alternative without one. Sorry for the paraphrasing, it was something along those lines and stuck with me because it makes a lot of sense.

Seems like the ammosexuals are getting antsy to play with their weapons.

when you give a child a hammer

everything looks like a nail

Nobody involved thinks of an end game. They just want to fight now.  Then it escalates. What's the goal? How do little civil wars or a big civil war end?  How do you win? Political domination? Total subjugation of Group B by Group A? Genocide?  Everyone just goes home and lives normal lives like it never happened? 

>>uparmored humvees, at first only with improvised plating,

I vaguely remember a fund drive or bakesale to help armor and reinforce the hummers

again thank you for serving!

Nobody involved thinks of an end game. They just want to fight now.  Then it escalates. What's the goal? How do little civil wars or a big civil war end?  How do you win? Political domination? Total subjugation of Group B by Group A? Genocide?  Everyone just goes home and lives normal lives like it never happened? <<<

Seems like you are accurate , isollated small skirmishes now. More to come.

Just might take up to a whole generation to undo or regenerate a new normal ' new'.

Doesn't look like a good situation.

This turd stewart rhodes is now going to prison for 18 years. This might actually be progress.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oath-keepers-founder-stewart-rhodes-041627637...

That's federal lockup. No MAGA hats and no parole.

just to bring an old thread on home. stay safe out there zone

Well, he'll have to do at least 85% of the sentence, so he won't be let out after 9 for "good behavior".

I hope he enjoys the prison food, I hear it's really good...