Dancing in the balcony at a Phil show - dick move?

it's a rock concert, not an opera.

we were shocked years ago when we stood up to dance; on cinco de mayo, a saturday night, during los lobos....poked in the back...

not sure why people go out.

i'll never forget the father to a young son at TOOL. As soon as the band came out, dad says to the kid, "Get up, stand up, going to stand up the whole show". At least someone is teaching someone somethting...

Really have to feel out the room.   Some shows its more acceptable than others to stand and dance.  I get around the issue at stadium and arena shows by going up to the very last row way up in the rafters where there is plenty of room to dance and freek without having to worry about bothering anyone.   We did that recently for Eagles and the Who and danced much of the shows while practically everyone else was sitting and it would have been an issue if we had been anywhere else.  

My son and I were at a Heart show in a shed and were up rocking out for Jason Bonham who was opening.  Some people behind us started to yell at us to sit down and right on cue Jason Bonham goes into When the Levee Breaks and implored the audience to stand in honor of his father.  Everyone obliged and remained up for the rest of the show.

Funny I was watching part of the live stream from last night and thought to myself , Man I wish I were there Dancin My Ass off, It is part of the show for me! I do try and be respectful of those behind me though , If Bill Walton was front row balcony I wouldn't want to be behind him , too bad people waste their time being angry though..enjoy tonight

I stand at movies.

Because it's a movie, not the opera.

nowadays if everyone behind me is sitting, I will either sit and enjoy that way or go somewhere I can dance without impacting anyone. The crowd is getting older every show and it's happening more n more. I see a lot of tension and anger around what should be an enjoyable experience for everyone. I get the principle of standing ground but honestly I don't like being surrounded by the negative energy of distractions even more

Standing for the whole show in the front row of the loge is a dick move in my view.  As an old person with bad knees I often pay more for those seats precisely so I can sit most of the time and still see the show.  Many in the seats of a Phil show are older people with bad knees, backs, feet, hearts, lungs, etc. If you want to stand and dance the whole show, why not head for the floor where everyone is standing and dancing?

Yes.

A friend always got us balcony seats for the Dead at Hult Center shows 40 years ago.  The first night we removed all the seats so we could dance (they weren't very happy about it!), the second night they noticed that again, and were very nice about it.  For the 3rd show, they had removed the seats for us knowing that we would be back.  They were very gracious that night, live and learn!  (the next time the Dead came to the Hult, the seats were removed)

Fortunately, the 2 tier balcony allowed for sitting (the floor), if anyone needed to!

"this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin around!"  

Dancing at a show isn't a dick move, but being a dick about people who are dancing is.

Many in the seats of a Phil show are older people with bad knees, backs, feet, hearts, lungs, etc.

shit, this is me, and im half of most of y'alls age. i have back problems that are manageable in pretty much every part of my life aside from occasional flare ups, but something about being confined to such a small amount of personal space either standing or in an uncomfortable chair really sets things off for me, and concerts cause significantly more pain for me than even 8-10 hour days of farm labor. on top of that, psychedelics make the pain/tension significantly worse, so if im using some kind of psychedelic that evening, it can be really difficult for me to stand at times.

on one hand, i do get annoyed at people in front of me who stand for the whole show when im in the lodge, and not just right up front. seems like it kinda defeats the point of buying *seats* if you are going to stand all night, but on the other hand, i dont really feel comfortable complaining to people about it. not to avoid conflict, but just because i dont think its actually a resonable request to make of people at shows like PLF shows. we all know its a party vibe, we all know there is lots of dancing, people freakin out on drugs, and all of that, and we all bought the tickets. maintaining the freedom for people to enjoy the show hoe they want is essential to the community, even if sometimes it means i dont get to enjoy the show exactly how id like to.

personally im much more concerned with the behavior that impacts my ability to hear the music or focus on it - things like loud conversations or people dancing aggressively, knocking into people and the like. ive gotten into several confrontations and fights over this kind of behavior at shows. in comparison, whether someone is sitting or standing in the lodge seems like a silly thing to get worked up over. we all know what phil looks like. 

you can do better lance. 

look, it's a rock concert. it's not bluegrass, perry como, barbara striestand or whatever genre you would associate with being seated. 

i get it, however as i continue to age, i will never begrudge someone standing in front of me, at a rock show.

shit my eyes are closed 1/2 the time anyways.

southern california is a great place for meat-in seat crowds. c'mon down!

Uptight security sucks. 

Telling someone to sit down at a GD related show is one of the more clueless and gauche moves there is.

I long ago gave up on balcony at Phil/Cap shows. Although it can be a great spot for viewing, the lame-ass Boomer archetypes are more than enough to stick to the floor. They love to chat, they love their phones, they love to sing along and they love to sit.

Also with Ticketmaster taking over Cap ticketing, the loge seats go for big dollars. It elevates this front section to people who paid $250 or $300 or whatever. Same jerkoffs who go to Billy Joel shows.

Yeah, I usually use the movie comparison for talkers. "It's a rock concert, not the opera" is also the go-to excuse for talkers at shows, but my point is the same. Just because it's a "rock concert" doesn't mean it's the law that everyone is allowed to or must stand, or talk, or bang/push/spin into people.

Ultimately, most of it comes down to common decency and an awareness of the people & situation around you. If most people are standing then it's foolish to complain about that, and visa versa.

Anyway, in this case, beyond the fact that it was a Grateful Dead related concert where everyone stands (everyone stood at those symphonic Wolf Bros. shows a couple of weeks ago; how ridiculous is THAT?) and the guy should have known what he was getting into, it sounds like this guy was a total asshole, which in my book negates any ground he had to stand on.

(See what I did there?)

There are lots of variants to these situations, but to me, in any public gathering it mostly comes down to majority rules/the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

And in any case it's never OK to be an asshole, so poop on that guy last night.

Now go live long & prosper.

Dancing at a GD show? Oh My

I would've asked the guy behind me if he wanted to change seats, just for peacefulness. If he didn't take the offer, then dance away. Either expect to put up with behavior you don't like,  or stay home.  Everyone wants to be respected when they've paid for entrance with their hard earned money, and then attend with the expectation that all your likes and dislikes will be respected by all others attending.  Joe likes to dance, so Joe danced. 

Joe for the win! 

 I'm not certain i would've danced in the balcony, or had the expectation that i could if no one else wasn't dancing, also. But that's not what Joe thought, and if dancing is allowed in the balconies, then...?  And being a Phil concert, it's entirely possible that the spirit(s) in him wouldn't let him sit still, and we've all been there. 

It'd be funny if Ken gets a call this week from a guy who wants to sue "some asshole" for emotional distress at a musical function this past weekend.

Row 1 guy could have switched seats with row 2 guy..........seems like an easy fix. 

Until row 3 guy gets pissed....

thought this was gonna be a thread about someone dancing with his junk out

freak freely...

row 2 guy actually strikes Joe  in the back >>>>>>>>

That is when it becomes real, you hit me when Im tripping , I WILL beat the living fuck out of em right there.

Sorry, Then I become the ultimate dick.

Ratdog in Pompano Beach, 1999. There is a drunken asshole who will never ever forget me or the Playin reprise.

I was at a Schofield show and the lady behind me 3 times asked me to sit in my seat "properly" 

What the fuck does that mean? I was leaning forward in my seat leaning on the rail.

We got ADA seats (sometimes), we used to have taper tix - why not have sections where standing and dancing is expected and encouraged, and others where it's not allowed?

This thread again.



 

Unless there's an explicit rule to remain seated at a so-called "rock concert" (or the like), standing / dancing is 100% acceptable. Anyone trying to buffalo others is what is unacceptable, IMO.

Having said that, I'm cognizant of the crowd around me; and while sitting down would be out of the question if I wanted to dance, I may or may not "move on" to another spot.

The notion of paying a lot of money for a "good seat" does not entitle one to impose arbitrary rules upon others in the immediate vicinity, but unfortunately, I've been seeing more and more of this in recent years. I've gotten into it several times over the past few years at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival for the daytime Peter Rowan set ... which I always walk right up to an empty tarp up in the front row and dance. It's not so much the monetary costs that rile up the people behind me, but the "investment" of their time in the overnight tarp line. It's so out of hand, that I've become somewhat militant in my defiance in this particular situation.

Having said that, I've relinquished primo seats at venues (i.e. Chatauqua in Boulder) to hang out in the back or on the sides where others who want to dance mostly congregate. 

thanks for the laugh Walstib!!

> There is a drunken asshole who will never ever forget me or the Playin reprise.

I can't really say why, Tim, but the Playin' Reprise part of this comment cracked me up.

That is when it becomes real, you hit me when Im tripping , I WILL beat the living fuck out of em right there.

Sorry, Then I become the ultimate dick.

ive had similar experiences dealing with drunken assholes while im tripping. i dont get annoyed at things i normally wouldnt, but i respond to things much more quickly and forcefully than i otherwise would.

you would think that a small guy like me, obviously tripping balls, would not be very threatening to people, but ive done some crazy shit to giant, drunken men(thrown their palo santo smudge across the room and told them to get the fuck out, shoved aggressive dancers onto the floor, etc) and in every situation, they just stare at me like i killed their puppy and then leave. i guess i have murder in my eyes or something, because just based on my physical size/ability vs theirs, and most other people for that matter, i should have been getting my ass kicked in these situations. i have very little upper body strength, am significantly smaller than most men, and have very very little experience fighting, but i guess somehow when i take a ton of acid i become intimidating. idk.

Some of these balconies are so steep and the rows are so narrow that I'm afraid to even stand up, much less dance. One wrong move and you'd be tumbling down.

(I was just at the old Warner Thr in DC for a Tedeski Trucks show and the balcony seats were closer together than at Shoreline, which I didn't think possible.)

Nowadays I book aisle seats if I have to buy a chair, as not to feel claustrophobic and it provides some dance space. But we usually end up moving somewhere with even more room to move anyway. 

The older I get the more I dislike indoor shows in general, unless they are mellow sit and listen performances. But for dance music, give me an open field of grass any day.

>>>>Some of these balconies are so steep and the rows are so narrow that I'm afraid to even stand up, much less dance.  One wrong move and you'd be tumbling down.

I have been in plenty of indoor venues like that.  Just need to make sure you are on solid footing and restrain yourself from dancing too hard.

At Phish at Mathew Knight Arena in Eugene in 2014, there was a shirtless wook high as a kite standing up on his seat in a very steep section of the upper balconies preaching to the crowd.  He slipped and went tumbling down several rows right through a bunch of people.   There was a collective gasp from the crowd, but a second later he was back up preaching again without skipping a beat before his girlfriend and yellow shirts escorted him off.  

Joe could have offered to switch seats/rows with Mr heart condition

and also if MHC needed to sit and wanted to see he could have paid a lot of money plus even more money for row AA

It seems this tale has spread to Reddit, and from another point of view:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/11wt2ie/don_appreciation_...

> Just need to make sure you are on solid footing and restrain yourself from dancing too hard.<

Part 1 of that statement I can handle. Part 2 I still have a hard time with. 

good thing Cardiac man wasn't sitting behind The Faith Tones or any other women in the beehive hairdo days. Poor guy would have had another heart attack.

Just popped in to see how Cap run was... lol

Hope all enjoyed!

2 things - had the Presidential Box with friends one year for Phil, thanks to awesome folks out there :)

They don't let you stand up and dance - the barrier was to my knees - so security kept telling us to sit - wasn't blocking a soul- in case we tumbled over. Bunk.

Note to self at Chase Center, SF...Don't fall over while dancing in the uppers- had never been there for a show or Warriors game ....

Went for Phish- 2 people fell over the partitions in upper seats -

It was a nightmare scene.

Thought to myself- Warrior fans rage here- and first time Phish comes to town, 2 tumble?

Hope you enjoyed the show, regardless!!!

Ro.

Hi Ro!

Mike, thanks for the link to Reddit.

Don, you continue to be a lovely guy.

Crazy bald head

I'm surprised that $hapiro hasnt monetized this aspect of the shows yet?
 

He's pretty keen on how to tune in on individual wants, and make them available for an additional upsell.
So, would the surcharge apply to the dancing-rights? Or to the stay-seated exclusivity?
Correct answer: both.

Regarding the original situation, I almost certainly would have stood, just BECAUSE the guy was being an entitled prick New Yorker about being blocked.
For balcony loge area, I typically think of the last row, usually the 3rd or 4th in the smaller theaters, as the best seats:
You have killer front-of-balcony viewing
There is no rail, or barrier, which can impede view in some front row seats
You can stand and dance at will, with only an aisle behind you, so really not blocking anyone
 

> ..guy actually strikes Joe  in the back and scream

What a goon. 

Foo Foo

Don, I read saw you over there earlier. It's very cool this thing came full circle.

You might want to poke around Reddit a bit since you signed up. It can seem kind of intimidating at first, but there's tons of cool content there.

^^^^^^ Re: Sitting Properly

Both feet squarely on the ground pointing straight ahead

no jiggling legs , back erect 

 eyes straight forward , hands gently clasped on lap

enjoy the show

except at the Ryman 

pew-eee

A long time ago 1990 91? a Gf and I went to the Sonoma Bluegrass festival  in Cali in a theater off 101, this was not long after Grisman and Garcia hooked back up, I thought Jerry might shoe up as a guest, David Grisman quartet was on the bill! we did shooms everybody was sitting the folks next to us looked at us strangely, we were crackin up laughing.. I needed to Dance, Gf said, Tom your gonna have to lean to dance in your mind, I do that a lot now!

I remember at some of  the old basketball / hockey arenas like the Balto Civic Center, Deadheads would take all the metal folding chairs on the floor and stack them into big piles. This would really screw with people who thought they would be going to a normal concert and watching the band while sitting down in their "reserved" seats. "What row is this?" was a nonsensical question. 

on another note, do ya think that there is a parallel universe where acid never got invented? 

Tommy---Luther Burbank Center.

My wife was there a few nights ago for Los Lobos.

Dead, uninterested, meat in seat crowd.

By the end, the band was basically imploring people to dance for one song.

Nope.

   As far as the balcony thing goes, I think if you buy a ticket that says Phil Lesh or 

Bob Weir, you have already "read the room", and that includes the balcony.

Did everyone sit in the balcony when Phil played the Warfield a few months ago?

I highly doubt it.

Epic photoshop, Alan R !  
 

Tangentially related reply here. I was in Row A balcony for Phil's 83rd Birthday show. Except for the douchenozzle right behind me. During the initial Tuning up, Phil was struggling with what appeared to be a bad cable causing distortion in his bass amp. Before he played a single note of live music, Frat boy in Row B bellows during a quiet moment for all to hear, "TURN UP YOUR BASS VOLUME, PHIL!!!" I just rolled my eyes as I did the second time dookie breath yelled it again in the first set. 

By the 3rd or 4th idiotic and embarrassingly stupid outburst, I couldn't take it anymore and I turned to him and said "Will you shut up with that? Do you really think Phil is gonna adjust his volume for you?!"

Then the verbal abuse began. "Who are you to tell me to shut up?! GO FUCK YOURSELF!" Over and over. And he starts yelling about the Bass volume even louder. Fucking moron. Not wanting to be associated with the scene he was creating, I split my killer seat. I texted my friend a few songs into the 2nd set and of course blabber mouth had Left early during a killer show, as I suspected. So I returned and enjoyed the rest of the show. 

He must've loved that hit single 'Touch Of Grey" when it hit the radio...
 

DJ - Photoshop? In keeping with the Win95 retro atheistic of this place, I rely solely on MS Paint for my contemporary fine art endeavors. 

Sorry about the nearby dickheads at the show. Since I'm often with my wife, I typically move rather than deal with that nonsense. Usually we find a better dance space elsewhere.

Just went thru a similar situation myself a few months ago at a Blackberry Smoke concert at the Roxian Theater in Pittsburgh. Not for dancing, but simply for standing up! It was an older crowd, actually much older than I expected. Definitely meat in your seat crowd. I usually go with the flow... if everyone is standing, I'll stand, and if everyone is sitting I'll sit. Our seats were halfway up in the balcony and things are going nicely when they go into a little rocker Ain't Much Left of Me (with a nice When The Levee Breaks jam). The whole bottom half of the balcony stands, so we stand too. I do enjoy watching the interaction of the musicians on stage.

Then i start getting pelted with items, turn around and some dude almost at the back of the balcony at least 10 rows behind me is screaming SIT THE FUCK DOWN repeatedly. I just ignore him and try to get back to the show. Mind you, everyone in front of me is standing! Get pelted with a couple more items and then dickhead comes down and tries to get in our face! A screaming match ensued, and then security saw what was going on and split us up. He goes back to his seat and security stations a couple people at the rail midway up the balcony. Then dickheads wife comes down and says Why don't you just sit the fuck down??? Well now I'm making it a point to stand, they can fuck off!!! I'm trying not to let this ruin the show, if you asked nicely I probably would have sat down, but if your getting in my face then its game on.

So a couple songs later they go into a ballad, and everyone sits down, so we sit down too. The rest of the show, everyone pretty much remained sitting so we just sit and enjoy the show. After its over, dude is standing at the side aisle throwing us a glare like he wants to do something about it. I turn and go up to him, face to face, and put my hand out to shake hands and said, No disrespect, we were only standing because everyone else was standing and i wanted to see what was going on. He shook my hand and said he was sorry, he shouldnt have freaked out. So I managed to diffuse the situation, but I cant wait to see him at another show and say Hey, theres the guy that freaked out on me at Blackberry Smoke!                    

> "What row is this?" <<

lol indeed.

concerts, they're the worst.

For incessant talkers, my go-to now is, "If you both have phones, you could just text each other during the music."

It takes them a second to figure out what I said -- and if they reply "We'd rather talk," well, they just sound stupid.

Don't you know?  Dancin is only allowed in the street.

Don, you're a local hero.   Sullying our asshole zoner name though.  ;) 

But seriously, well done.  

you sure it wasn't sideshow bob?