Lets start w/when you issue a congressional subpoena and it's ignored you have the sargent at arms makes an arrest. Politics in the USA = wild west. The GOP seemingly change the rules/laws daily, either play their game or be left with another 4 years of Trump.
I really can't grasp the notion that if impeachment proceedings begin that somehow 100% of the nation is going to back Trump? When the facts are laid out and there's no spin, millions are going to come out and make a protest vote for Trump?
>>>> I really can't grasp the notion that if impeachment proceedings begin that somehow 100% of the nation is going to back Trump?
That is not going to happen, but even if an impeachment proceeding (which would be doomed to fail in the GOP controlled Senate) turns off just 5% of the electorate, it would be enough to throw the election in favor of Trump. Remember, a majority of voters don't follow this stuff nearly as closely as the vocal anti-trumpers do and many folks who aren't big Trump fans or are undecided may just roll their eyes at an impeachment proceeding and just see it as divisive and unnecessary political gamesmanship. You can lay the facts out as clearly and soberly as possible to demonstrate the pretty obvious obstruction of justice, but in the end why risk anything that will alienate even a small percentage of voters when you know that it would be a just a quixotic exercise that will die a gory death in the Senate. That's not justice and its not right, but it is nevertheless a political reality.
Of course, if the mood of the American people suddenly changes in the next few months because of a sudden recession or pointless costly war, you could revisit the issue, but as long as the economy is doing fine and a large segment of the population is ok with Trump's overall performance, it would be best to keep the powder dry and save an impeachment proceeding until after the 2020 election plays out. I hope I am wrong and maybe a majority of Americans will soon warm up to the idea without a big calamity, but an impeachment proceeding without the backing of a majority of the public is not a wise move.
Personally, yes. It's clear to me that dude at least attempted to obstruct justice, which as I understand it is a crime. And unlike Clinton's perjury, the crime at issue here went beyond a personal matter and involved an investigation of a foreign power's attempt to interfere with our election.
However, if I was in Congress, I would have to consider the best interests of the country and carefully analyze the practical pros and cons using the very best data on the affect of an impeachment proceeding on undecided voters in the upcoming election.
Hate to burst your bubble but America isn't all that liberal, and people like the Koch brothers spend billions on keeping it conservative.
Kevin Drum wrote: The reality of American political life is that 40% of people say they are conservative and 20% say they are liberal. That has held steady going back to 1996 with only minor variations. That means in any given election Republicans only need to attract 10% of independents while liberals have to attract 30% of independents.
It isn’t even close to a level playing field. Liberal politicians have to walk a tight rope of not pissing off their much smaller base while attracting enough moderates and independents to put them over the top. Republicans rarely if ever get punished for being too conservative by their base, and can usually attract a small part of the independents to make them competitive in most races.
That has left us where we are today with two choices - a radicalized “conservative” party and a moderate/conservative party. The only way to change anything is to convince the self identifying conservatives that the new Republican party doesn’t represent them anymore.
All "damages" incurred every day beyond Robert Mueller's public statement are now on Nancy Pelosi, IMO. Trade war fallout, deaths at border, military conflicts, election interference, etc.
Mueller CLEARLY handed the baton to Congress and rightly refused to play an arbitrary quasi role of the "cavalry coming to the rescue". Not only has Pelosi refused to accept said baton, she has established a completely unrealistic threshold (i.e. "ironclad case" to convince GOP stalwarts in the Senate) to begin a formal impeachment inquiry.
Mueller opened and closed his statement with a stark warning about hostile external forces interfering in our elections as still being a matter of the utmost concern for every American. Yet Pelosi still wants the fate of over 325 million people to hinge on her own personally derived political calculation that is necessarily dependent upon said elections?!?
Perhaps the more progressive wing of the Dem party will get their act together and compel Pelosi to perform her duty and do the "right thing"; regardless of the immediate outcome.
I just don't see how impeachment can not proceed in light of the precedent that would be set in light of the facts on the ground.
when you get wealthy funding think tanks and media to influence sheeple to vote against their own self interests....you get the shit hole out country is becomming.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
Would viva still exist if
Would viva still exist if slacker stopped posting?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
What should they do
What should they do differently?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
^ begin an impeachment
^ begin a formal impeachment inquiry immediately
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: g-reg
So what
So what
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Strangha
Pat Bagley in tomorrow's Salt
Pat Bagley in tomorrow's Salt Lake Tribune.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ausonius
Please do it.
Please do it.
It used to be that the Republicans were the stupid party. No more.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: g-reg
So you admit you are stupid
So you admit you are stupid unless dems impeach. Then you're smart?
It doesn't work that way
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Lets start w/when you issue a
Lets start w/when you issue a congressional subpoena and it's ignored you have the sargent at arms makes an arrest. Politics in the USA = wild west. The GOP seemingly change the rules/laws daily, either play their game or be left with another 4 years of Trump.
I really can't grasp the notion that if impeachment proceedings begin that somehow 100% of the nation is going to back Trump? When the facts are laid out and there's no spin, millions are going to come out and make a protest vote for Trump?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
Yeah, duh... 2+2=5
Yeah, duh... 2+2=5
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
>>>> I really can't grasp the
>>>> I really can't grasp the notion that if impeachment proceedings begin that somehow 100% of the nation is going to back Trump?
That is not going to happen, but even if an impeachment proceeding (which would be doomed to fail in the GOP controlled Senate) turns off just 5% of the electorate, it would be enough to throw the election in favor of Trump. Remember, a majority of voters don't follow this stuff nearly as closely as the vocal anti-trumpers do and many folks who aren't big Trump fans or are undecided may just roll their eyes at an impeachment proceeding and just see it as divisive and unnecessary political gamesmanship. You can lay the facts out as clearly and soberly as possible to demonstrate the pretty obvious obstruction of justice, but in the end why risk anything that will alienate even a small percentage of voters when you know that it would be a just a quixotic exercise that will die a gory death in the Senate. That's not justice and its not right, but it is nevertheless a political reality.
Of course, if the mood of the American people suddenly changes in the next few months because of a sudden recession or pointless costly war, you could revisit the issue, but as long as the economy is doing fine and a large segment of the population is ok with Trump's overall performance, it would be best to keep the powder dry and save an impeachment proceeding until after the 2020 election plays out. I hope I am wrong and maybe a majority of Americans will soon warm up to the idea without a big calamity, but an impeachment proceeding without the backing of a majority of the public is not a wise move.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
Do you think he should be
Do you think he should be impeached Ken?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Personally, yes. It's clear
Personally, yes. It's clear to me that dude at least attempted to obstruct justice, which as I understand it is a crime. And unlike Clinton's perjury, the crime at issue here went beyond a personal matter and involved an investigation of a foreign power's attempt to interfere with our election.
However, if I was in Congress, I would have to consider the best interests of the country and carefully analyze the practical pros and cons using the very best data on the affect of an impeachment proceeding on undecided voters in the upcoming election.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: spectrums of cage free range
How is it "for the good of
How is it "for the good of the country" that the president is above the law?
Sounds pretty dictator-ish to me
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Hate to burst your bubble but
Hate to burst your bubble but America isn't all that liberal, and people like the Koch brothers spend billions on keeping it conservative.
Kevin Drum wrote: The reality of American political life is that 40% of people say they are conservative and 20% say they are liberal. That has held steady going back to 1996 with only minor variations. That means in any given election Republicans only need to attract 10% of independents while liberals have to attract 30% of independents.
It isn’t even close to a level playing field. Liberal politicians have to walk a tight rope of not pissing off their much smaller base while attracting enough moderates and independents to put them over the top. Republicans rarely if ever get punished for being too conservative by their base, and can usually attract a small part of the independents to make them competitive in most races.
That has left us where we are today with two choices - a radicalized “conservative” party and a moderate/conservative party. The only way to change anything is to convince the self identifying conservatives that the new Republican party doesn’t represent them anymore.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideolo...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
All "damages" incurred every
All "damages" incurred every day beyond Robert Mueller's public statement are now on Nancy Pelosi, IMO. Trade war fallout, deaths at border, military conflicts, election interference, etc.
Mueller CLEARLY handed the baton to Congress and rightly refused to play an arbitrary quasi role of the "cavalry coming to the rescue". Not only has Pelosi refused to accept said baton, she has established a completely unrealistic threshold (i.e. "ironclad case" to convince GOP stalwarts in the Senate) to begin a formal impeachment inquiry.
Mueller opened and closed his statement with a stark warning about hostile external forces interfering in our elections as still being a matter of the utmost concern for every American. Yet Pelosi still wants the fate of over 325 million people to hinge on her own personally derived political calculation that is necessarily dependent upon said elections?!?
Perhaps the more progressive wing of the Dem party will get their act together and compel Pelosi to perform her duty and do the "right thing"; regardless of the immediate outcome.
I just don't see how impeachment can not proceed in light of the precedent that would be set in light of the facts on the ground.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
interesting kxela...
interesting kxela...
depressing also.
when you get wealthy funding think tanks and media to influence sheeple to vote against their own self interests....you get the shit hole out country is becomming.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Yep and just in case you need
Yep and just in case you need more evidence:
Quote of the Day: The Mueller Report Says Bad Things About Trump? Fox News Never Mentioned That.
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/05/quote-of-the-day-the-muel...