Flynn is the National Security Advisor who talked to the Russians about the sanctions before the inauguration. A General Kellogg has been named to replace him on an interim basis. Trump is meeting with General Petraeus tomorrow.
Flynn is one of the crazies who fell for the fake Pizzagate story so no surprise she's celebrating his demise. Well, that and he was a risk to our national security.
All the Presidents men will be out like Flynn soon enough. We can assume that the CIA has transcripts of their treasonous phone calls.
"The logs also show that Clinton shared more than a dozen flights with a woman who federal prosecutors believe procured underage girls to sexually service Epstein and his friends and acted as a "potential co-conspirator" in his crimes.
Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 in Florida to one count of soliciting underage girls for sex (and one count of adult solicitation), for which he served just over a year in county jail. But sprawling local, state, and federal investigations into the eccentric investor's habit of paying teen girls for "massages"—sessions during which he would allegedly penetrate girls with sex toys, demand to be masturbated, and have intercourse—turned up a massive network of victims, including 35 female minors whom federal prosecutors believed he'd sexually abused. He has reportedly settled lawsuits from more than 30 "Jane Doe" victims since 2008; the youngest alleged victim was 12 years old at the time of her abuse."
" Virginia Roberts, claimed in a federal court filing that Epstein recruited her as a "sex slave" at the age of 15 and "sexually trafficked [her] to politically-connected and financially-powerful people," including Prince Andrew and attorney Alan Dershowitz."
Yes, NAMBLA exists, as do fucked up people who are into abusing children, sharing pedo porn on the interns and worse. none of which has do to with the invented Pizzagate story.
And yes, Flynn and anyone else who believe that Pizzagate is real is absolutely crazy.
Admin, I feel that this thread is becoming contentious, perhaps you can start a new folder for 'elite trafficking in children' so that Agent 73 and Lassen can take their pedophile chat there?
Admin, I feel that this thread is becoming contentious, perhaps you can start a new folder for 'elite trafficking in children' so that Agent 73 and Lassen can take their pedophile chat there? <<<
What about free speech? Personally, I love hearing everybody's take. That way I get to weigh everything. I like to stay at the top of the decision triangle and enjoy some cognitive dissonance to keep me honest.
Staying on topic here, This is HUGE. Some people say his actions would qualify as Treason. Thats why i think Trump dumped him. And if Conway knew this was coming, she would then be lying. Where are the tweets from the CPOTUS calling him "crooked Flynnary" and "crooked Conway". SAD.
Personally this is giving me a little satisfaction and hope. Not a lot, but a bit.
Jeffery E was never quiet about his gig, and everyone in Palm Beach knew about the "lolita express" and the island. the house here was always rocking at the pool. At first it was just topless chics and canopes by the pool on the weekends, but it morphed it seems as he got bored. he loved having powerful friends.
and to be on Topic, everything legal i have read said he was allowed to take and have all those calls in an incoming. I think Spicers take on it is straight, that Trump didnt trust him on what was discussed. Flynn was one of his worst picks, yet the Patriot crowd loves him. total loose canon.
Yeah Truck. Dats what i mean, i think because the word "Treason" starting hitting the press, he was forced to pull the plug. Thats a word thats hard to justify even to his supporters, who seem to ignore reality.
don't need to be under oath, it is a crime to lie to federal agents.
"It's called Making False Statements and it is a federal crime; Section 1001 of Title 18. Martha Stewart, Bernie Madoff, and Scooter Libby are all individuals who have been convicted of this."
Fact: Russia hacked the DNC and released embarrassing emails that helped The Republican Party to get elected
Fact: We now know while the Russians were hacking the DNC and helping the Republican party win - General Flynn was having secret conversations with Russia telling them not react to their diplomats being expelled because they would reverse the sanctions once in place.
Please take a moment to think about the heads exploding shit storm we would be having right now if Russia leaked Republican emails during an election and then the Democrats named someone to head up the NSA who had secrete conversations with the Russians during the elections promising them to reverse sanctions
Oh come on, Ender. What part don't you get or you just playing dumb? Obviously Flynn broke the law by lying to the FBI and for trying to undermine the US Government (he contacted Russia while Obama was still President).
Took about 2 seconds to google the law, Hound Her.
I think Trump will probably resign before he faces impeachment. He doesn't like being told that he can't do stuff, like yesterday when he was put on a Twitter time out.
>> Obviously Flynn broke the law by lying to the FBI
Did the FBI say that? He could have refused to answer their questions and lied to the public. Certainly any representation worth it's salt wouldn't allow him to lie and incriminate himself.
While it is not clear what he said in his F.B.I. interview, Mr. Flynn maintained publicly for more than a week after his interview that his conversations with the ambassador had been innocuous and did not involve Russian sanctions, something now known to be false.
>>Wash, rinse, repeat: The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
As much change as President Trump has tried to bring to Washington in his eventful first weeks as president, he hasn’t yet altered the enduring truth in that Watergate-era cliché. Michael Flynn discovered it anew on Monday night when he submitted his resignation as national security adviser. It wasn’t that Flynn discussed sensitive matters of policy with the Russian ambassador before he took office that led to his ouster, press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters over and over again on Tuesday: It was the fact that he lied about it to Vice President Mike Pence and other senior members of the Trump administration that caused the president to sack him.
That cover-up may cost Flynn way more than his job if the FBI determines that he lied to its investigators in the same way he misled Pence about his discussions with the Russian ambassador during the presidential transition. The New York Times reported on Tuesday afternoon that the FBI interviewed Flynn in the days after Trump became president last month. The bureau had been investigating whether his post-election phone call with Russian ambassador Sergei Kislyak violated the Logan Act, a 1799 prohibition on private citizens corresponding with foreign governments “in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States.” But if history is a guide, Flynn’s conversation with FBI agents at the White House could cause him more legal trouble than his phone call with Kislyak in November.
Even if he did lie to the FBI, there is no case without the warrantless wiretap. And it's probably not admissible.
Criminal prosecution under the NSA program
Evidence gathered without warrant may raise significant Fourth Amendment issues which could preclude its use in a criminal trial. As a general rule of law, evidence obtained improperly without lawful authority, may not be used in a criminal prosecution. The U.S. Supreme Court has never addressed the constitutionality of warrantless searches (which has been broadly defined by the court to include surveillance) targeting foreign powers or their agents, the admissibility of such evidence in a criminal trial nor whether it is permissible to obtain or use evidence gathered without warrant against US persons acting as agents of a foreign power.
Obama tried to stop this. Now there are two fully functioning battalions of missiles.
trump and Putin are apparently besties. how will this kind of stuff help? We had made progress in this regard and now t rump is "the decider". good lord what a mess
I don't think so, WALSTIB. I think it's much more likely that Pence just isn't part of the Trump's inner circle. He's a member of the establishment that Trump is trying to take down.
>>Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.
American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time that they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee....The intercepts alarmed American intelligence and law enforcement agencies, in part because of the amount of contact that was occurring while Mr. Trump was speaking glowingly about the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin....The officials said the intercepted communications were not limited to Trump campaign officials, and included other associates of Mr. Trump.
....Officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, which Russian intelligence officials were on the calls, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians.
This is from Michael Schmidt, Mark Mazzetti, and Matt Apuzzo at the New York Times. If Trump thought that firing Michael Flynn was going to stop the recent bloodletting, he thought wrong.
Just to make this clear: At the same time that Russian intelligence was hacking various email accounts in order to sabotage Hillary Clinton, multiple members of the Trump team had repeated phone calls with senior Russian intelligence officials. And during this entire time, Trump himself was endorsing a foreign policy that appeared almost as if it had been dictated to him by Vladimir Putin.
As a number of people have pointed out, the American intelligence community has all but declared war on Trump since his inauguration. I hardly need to spell out why this is dangerous. At the same time, it's sure becoming a lot clearer why they're so alarmed by the guy.
And by the way, I shouldn't miss this chance to flog my favorite hobbyhorse again: FBI Director James Comey, who knew all about this, pushed hard not to make it public during the campaign. Instead he considered it more important to inform Congress that he had discovered additional copies of Hillary Clinton's emails on Anthony Weiner's laptop. Priorities.
"In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:"
"Yet very few people are calling for a criminal investigation or the prosecution of these leakers, nor demanding the leakers step forward and “face the music” — for very good reason: The officials leaking this information acted justifiably, despite the fact that they violated the law. That’s because the leaks revealed that a high government official, Gen. Flynn, blatantly lied to the public about a material matter — his conversations with Russian diplomats — and the public has the absolute right to know this."
"It’s very possible — I’d say likely — that the motive here was vindictive rather than noble. Whatever else is true, this is a case where the intelligence community, through strategic (and illegal) leaks, destroyed one of its primary adversaries in the Trump White House."
"IT IS, OF COURSE, bizarre to watch this principle now so widely celebrated. Over the last eight years, President Obama implemented the most vindictive and aggressive war on whistleblowers in all of U.S. history. As Leonard Downie, one of the editors at the Washington Post during the Watergate investigation, put it in a special report: “The [Obama] administration’s war on leaks and other efforts to control information are the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration.”
New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is "being really dumb" by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia's cyber activities.
"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.
I'm no Trump fan but the mainstream media’s sudden concern for Flynn having potentially violated the Logan Act is interesting given that establishment politicians have been violating the Logan Act for decades by physically meeting with foreign officials at Bilderberg conferences, without a hint of dissent from the press.
>"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow<
Sounds like Schumer is saying that everybody in Washington is dirty.
Regarding the Logan act... The story is the Trump campaign colluding with Russia. Flynn's violation of the Logan act is the merely the first tangible piece of evidence of this collusion. If there were no other shoe to drop, the Flynn story would not be garnering this level of coverage...IMO.
Trump is a Traitor....He has an imbalanced portfolio of Russian holdings (according to the Washington Post). He's willing to sell this country down the river so that he can make more money over the long run. He has no idea how much he is going to screw this country all for the sake of himself.
There is another component to this story as well -- as Trump himself just tweeted. It's very rare that reporters are ever told about government-monitored communications of U.S. citizens, let alone senior U.S. officials. The last story like this to hit Washington was in 2009 when Jeff Stein, then of CQ, reported on intercepted phone calls between a senior Aipac lobbyist and Jane Harman, who at the time was a Democratic member of Congress.
Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.
In the past it was considered scandalous for senior U.S. officials to even request the identities of U.S. officials incidentally monitored by the government (normally they are redacted from intelligence reports). John Bolton's nomination to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations wasderailed in 2006 after the NSA confirmed he had made 10 such requests when he was Undersecretary of State for Arms Control in George W. Bush's first term. The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.
>The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.<
The red flag is that there is much more to the story. without public pressure the Trump administration would sweep it under the rug. This is why this is being leaked...IMO
and regarding the intelligence community, it is still my thought that the all the leaks in the run up to the election originated inside our intelligence arena and were passed to wiki to diverted and fingerprinted to attention that way
>I'm no Trump fan but the mainstream media’s sudden concern for Flynn having potentially violated the Logan Act is interesting given that establishment politicians have been violating the Logan Act for decades by physically meeting with foreign officials at Bilderberg conferences, without a hint of dissent from the press.
Come on man. Did you steal that from Conroy's or Spicers twitter? You're bridging that gap from being a Hillary hater to a Trump supporter. This is way outside the Logan Act.
I just happen to believe the folks telling us there is a Deep State war against Trump right now and he has no idea the 4d chess that the IC is playing against him, nor is he up to the task of fighting it.
Though the Times and CNN relied exclusively on unnamed sources, both loaded up their reports with caveats.
From the Times:
The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
It is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society.
It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.
From CNN:
Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual.
Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.
These officials cautioned the Russians could have been exaggerating their access.
The communications were gathered as part of routine US intelligence collection and not because people close to Trump were being targeted.
I'm not excusing Trump, but they need to release the transcripts.
Seems like a lot of serious people have been hyperventilating about something still unproven, however likely.
Now CNN reports Pudzer (yes I can spell) isnt gonna make it to Labor Secretary. Too many pubs are against the man. HA! another evil drone getting smacked down. This guy was a terrible pick, as per the norm form our new decider. Maybe Pudzer can be replaced by a robot.
Simply stated, no I'm not. Were you clear with what you were marching for?
>I just happen to believe the folks telling us there is a Deep State war against Trump right now and he has no idea the 4d chess that the IC is playing against him
Deep State war??? I wish I could laugh and equate this to a game.
No one is laughing and I'm speaking to the level of complexity Trump has no idea he is facing in referencing "a game". Im not "equating' this to a game.
I'm not sure that you are clear why you think Im wrong here.
Binary thinking wont serve you well in the next four years, my friend.
Everything from your ssn to the food you eat to the money you spend is a conspiracy. All a big ruse played out on us by the global elites so they can trade in children.
I am far less concerned with what Flynn said (unless it turns out to be either quid pro quo or directly undermining the sitting president) than the fact that he lied about it, not just to the public but to his own VP and possibly the FBI. That's not a good start for an NSA. Combine that with him already being a conspiracy spreading wackjob. Good riddance. I imagine Pence is pretty pissed at the whole thing, and should be.
As far as the campaign people talking to Russia, I thought that already came out during the campaign. We already know the whole administration is Russian stooges, but a lot of America is OK with that. And yes, a lot of the Still Bitter For Bernie crowd is way into that. I get the part about lets not make a war, but it takes big boy pants to deal with Russia, and no one should act like it is someplace where there are unrigged elections, where everyone has a fair wage, where you can speak your mind. A working relationship is necessary, but I think it is fair to be concerned with a President who is TOO cozy with any other major nation. Especially when this guy has mad autocratic tendencies and doesn't seem to understand the first thing about how our constitutional structure is different from theirs. "But Russia did it" is not going to be acceptable. Can you imagine if Hillary had put Pussy Riot in jail?
I am surprised that Puzder is where the GOP is drawing the line. Since when do they care that a guy hates his own workers and doesn't want to pay them?
The new word du jour of the wiki/trump/fox/bernie/brietbart/bannon crowd. Well duh, the world is full of spies and political intrigue. That's why we still talk about who killed Kennedy.
I think this link fairly presents its assets, limitations and interests.
Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
It's not some all powerful, all seeing sinister monolithic entity as your hyperbole infers.
I'm not claiming here or anywhere else that it is, but it is a thing, nonlocalized and has its own continued interests and resources.
The Deep State does not consist of the entire government. It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street. All these agencies are coordinated by the Executive Office of the President via the National Security Council. Certain key areas of the judiciary belong to the Deep State, such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, whose actions are mysterious even to most members of Congress. Also included are a handful of vital federal trial courts, such as the Eastern District of Virginia and the Southern District of Manhattan, where sensitive proceedings in national security cases are conducted. The final government component (and possibly last in precedence among the formal branches of government established by the Constitution) is a kind of rump Congress consisting of the congressional leadership and some (but not all) of the members of the defense and intelligence committees. The rest of Congress, normally so fractious and partisan, is mostly only intermittently aware of the Deep State and when required usually submits to a few well-chosen words from the State’s emissaries.
Fair enough, Ned. I see where you are perceiving an apparent disconnect.
I think you are forgetting that article was written in 2014 before we had Trump as president openly questioning the findings of the IC.
It was also written before the Weiner laptop was in possesion of the FBI and we had open politicization of intelligence.
My armchair guess is that the locus of power involved in this thing has naturally migrated slightly away from the Executive Office of the President as posited in the article.
A current U.S. intelligence official tells NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the transcripts of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, although the official noted that doesn't rule out the possibility of illegal actions.
The official also says that there are recordings as well as transcripts of the calls, and that the transcripts don't suggest Flynn was acting under orders in his conversations.
Ooh, there are tapes and transcripts. Release them.
The intelligence official who has personally seen the transcripts told Mary Louise they contained "no evidence" of criminal wrongdoing, although the official said it can't be definitively ruled out.
The official also said there was "absolutely nothing" in the transcripts that suggests Flynn was acting under instructions "or that the trail leads higher."
"I don't think [Flynn] knew he was doing anything wrong," the official said.
This supports Nancys earlier comment that maybe his sin wasnt in talking to the Russians, but how he portrayed that call to his superiors and what he left out.
Aspects of the Deep State are coordinated by the NSC, but, as the article notes, "It is not too much to say that Wall Street may be the ultimate owner of the Deep State and its strategies, if for no other reason than that it has the money to reward government operatives with a second career that is lucrative beyond the dreams of avarice — certainly beyond the dreams of a salaried government employee."
Wrong, agent 73. I've said that both the treasonous contact with the Russians and the cover up are going to sink All the Presidents men, and The President. it may have to wait till the Dems take back the senate, but it's not just about misleading anyone's superiors when Trump himself is Putin's puppet.
I think its kind of common sense. Do you really think the people who run the world are going to give that up just because there's an election or because we signed a peace or trade treaty or because the nation's politics moves to the right or left or because some guy retired or because a war ended or began?
Here's what I'm getting at: If you think 9/11 was "set up" by this Deep State, or some other nefarious organization, the leaking we're seeing today proves that would have been impossible to keep a lid on. The career intel folks are leaking because they don't like what they're seeing. They see a threat to our country and security. There's no way in hell there could have been any, yes, conspiracy to demo WTC, or fly cruise missiles into Pentagon without work leaking out.
As much as a thumbnail sketch hardly does it justice, all you have to do is look at the signers of the Project For A New American Century to see some of the major players. This was a Neocon paper/ project in 1999 that openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda, which looks a lot like the world today.
Thesee folks all ended up in key positions that seem to cross over the described departments in the Moyers article. I don't think the groupthink of the Deep State would have permitted such an overtly criminal act on its own people as an entity, but I think a faction within it could have pulled it off.
And as much as you don't think there are leaks, all you have to do is spend a little time looking at some of the questions surrounding that day to see information has leaked out.
>>> This was a Neocon paper/ project in 1999 that openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda, which looks a lot like the world today. <<<
This applies today, and four years ago, and 12 years from now. Not buying it.
I wasn't there. How on earth could I say what happened.
If you showed me a large black thorny fruit and called it an apple, I wouldn't invent a name and story for it, but I sure as hell would know it wasn't an apple.
Aaaand we are back to the same territory where you just maintain "bullshit" and "not buying it" without any refutation based in fact. happens every time we get into the details.
The article by Lofgren was well-written and provides a fairly detailed view of the Deep State, so yeah, I'd call the reporting good stuff.
> openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda
There's a huge difference between pining for and executing. The Lofgren article states "My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day."
My take is the Deep State is more opportunistic than operative. The events of 9/11 might have answered the pining of the Deep State, but I don't think it was orchestrated. I see greed as a motivator--it's like Bill Graham once said; "It's not the money; it's the money"--but in my mind that's not sufficient motivation to kill thousands of US citizens in an operation like you propose.
>>Aaaand we are back to the same territory where you just maintain "bullshit" and "not buying it" without any refutation based in fact. happens every time we get into the details.
More backward-bending logic.
I'm not here to refute baseless questions. Make your case. You willfully ignore evidence found at Pentagon. Your choice.
And as you can see above I acknowledged as much in bringing up the article and answered Ned's question about the extent to which the Deep State was involved.
Remains that were recovered from the Pentagon were photographed, and turned over to the Armed Forces Medical Examiner office, located at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The medical examiner's office was able to identify remains belonging to 179 of the victims.[85] Investigators eventually identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the attack.[86] The remains of the five hijackers were identified through a process of elimination, and were turned over as evidence to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).[87] On September 21, the ACFD relinquished control of the crime scene to the FBI. The Washington Field Office, National Capital Response Squad (NCRS), and the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) led the crime scene investigation at the Pentagon.
Even thinner:
At around 3:40 a.m. on September 14, a paramedic and a firefighter who were searching through the debris of the impact site found two dark boxes, about 1.5 feet (46 cm) by 2 feet (61 cm) long. They called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The NTSB employee confirmed that these were the flight recorders ("black boxes") from American Airlines Flight 77.[89] Dick Bridges, deputy manager for Arlington County, Virginia, said the cockpit voice recorder was damaged on the outside and the flight data recorder was charred. Bridges said the recorders were found "right where the plane came into the building."
A fine example of Trump's signature word salad from today's so-called press conference:
Mike Flynn is a fine person, and I asked for his resignation. He respectfully gave it. He is a man who there was a certain amount of information given to Vice President Pence, who is with us today. And I was not happy with the way that information was given.
is it necessary for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file charges and prosecute - or can the FBI just arrest Flynn now and sort it all out in court?
>>Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn denied to FBI agents in an interview last month that he had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country’s ambassador to the United States before President Trump took office, contradicting the contents of intercepted communications collected by intelligence agencies, current and former U.S. officials said.
The Jan. 24 interview potentially puts Flynn in legal jeopardy, as lying to the FBI is a felony, but any decision to prosecute would ultimately lie with the Justice Department. Some officials said bringing a case could prove difficult in part because Flynn may attempt to parse the definition of sanctions.
Flynn apparently lied to the FBI in an interview with the FBI.
How is that not admissable?
As an addendum, the wiretaps were legal, and presumably done by at least two different agencies, based on my current understanding, which could be wrong:
1) the NSA, which apparently records the Russian Ambassador's calls as a standard practice;
and
2) the FBI, which had apparently been granted a FISA warrant to eavesdrop on members of Trump's team, including Flynn.
Harward didn't want Flynn's deputy, K. T. McFarland, to remain, but Trump did, so it's down to Kellogg and Petraeus, who has already had his own intelligence scandal. I would think that Kellogg is the safe choice, but since this is Trump we're talking about, who the hell knows?
Some supporters of Trump, including Breitbart News, are now accusing the intelligence agencies of attempting to wage a "deep state coup" against the president. Meanwhile, some critics of Trump are openly embracing such activity, like Bill Kristol, the prominent Republican analyst who founded The Weekly Standard. He wrote on Twitter, "Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state."
So, still with us, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept, speaking to us from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Glenn, explain what the deep state is, and respond.
The deep state, although there’s no precise or scientific definition, generally refers to the agencies in Washington that are permanent power factions. They stay and exercise power even as presidents who are elected come and go. They typically exercise their power in secret, in the dark, and so they’re barely subject to democratic accountability, if they’re subject to it at all. It’s agencies like the CIA, the NSA and the other intelligence agencies, that are essentially designed to disseminate disinformation and deceit and propaganda, and have a long history of doing not only that, but also have a long history of the world’s worst war crimes, atrocities and death squads. This is who not just people like Bill Kristol, but lots of Democrats are placing their faith in, are trying to empower, are cheering for as they exert power separate and apart from—in fact, in opposition to—the political officials to whom they’re supposed to be subordinate.
Secondly, the idea that Donald Trump is some kind of an agent or a spy of Russia, or that he is being blackmailed by Russia and is going to pass secret information to the Kremlin and endanger American agents on purpose, is an incredibly crazy claim that has been nowhere proven to be true. It reminds me of the kind of things Glenn Beck used to say about Obama while he stood at his chalkboard and drew those—those unstable charts that he drew, these wild conspiracy theories that are without evidence.
(Lol. Honestly, I was thinking about that when Nancy, earlier in this thread, said Flynn was "just the tip of the Trump iceberg" and going on about a conspiracy theory that went deeper than we may know!)
Now, I happen to think that the Trump presidency is extremely dangerous. You just listed off in your news—in your newscast that led the show, many reasons. They want to dismantle the environment. They want to eliminate the safety net. They want to empower billionaires. They want to enact bigoted policies against Muslims and immigrants and so many others. And it is important to resist them. And there are lots of really great ways to resist them, such as getting courts to restrain them, citizen activism and, most important of all, having the Democratic Party engage in self-critique to ask itself how it can be a more effective political force in the United States after it has collapsed on all levels. That isn’t what this resistance is now doing. What they’re doing instead is trying to take maybe the only faction worse than Donald Trump, which is the deep state, the CIA, with its histories of atrocities, and say they ought to almost engage in like a soft coup, where they take the elected president and prevent him from enacting his policies. And I think it is extremely dangerous to do that. Even if you’re somebody who believes that both the CIA and the deep state, on the one hand, and the Trump presidency, on the other, are extremely dangerous, as I do, there’s a huge difference between the two, which is that Trump was democratically elected and is subject to democratic controls, as these courts just demonstrated and as the media is showing, as citizens are proving. But on the other hand, the CIA was elected by nobody. They’re barely subject to democratic controls at all. And so, to urge that the CIA and the intelligence community empower itself to undermine the elected branches of government is insanity. That is a prescription for destroying democracy overnight in the name of saving it. And yet that’s what so many, not just neocons, but the neocons’ allies in the Democratic Party, are now urging and cheering. And it’s incredibly warped and dangerous to watch them do that.
Like I said in this thread earlier. Binary thinking will mislead you during this.
"A friend of Harward's said he was reluctant to take the job because the White House seems so chaotic. Harward called the offer a "s*** sandwich," the friend said."
I don't think it's binary thinking to think that the guy holding that press conference is an incompetent boob. I don't think he's really doing much more with Russia other than possible business interests--but he has those conflicts everywhere and no one really cares any more. The issue with Flynn was really more about lying to Pence and saying stupid shit like "I don't remember" and making them all look bad. A grown person could probably weather this pretty well, maybe some nagging baggage like not divesting, financial conflicts, tax returns. But he's handling this like a crazeball and basically forcing it to be a much bigger story than it needs to be. Right now, Trump's biggest enemy isn't the neocons, it's Trump. I'm sure Bannon wants this showdown, but if Trump cooled out a bit, then he'd have a much better case for the deep state is out to get me.
>"the difference between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with kale"
I know it's a broken record at this point but you can't seem let go of some of the lies that you bought hook line and sinker about Hillary. Your take on the current admin is so slanted because you are still trying to justify that there would have been no difference between a Trump or a Clinton presidency. Let it go.
Waaaaaay off. No matter how many times you say it, you will still be incorrect.
I am in no way trying to justify there would have been no difference, because I don't believe that.
You are really bad at reading, I think. I think Donald is awful and I think Hillary would have been awful, but in a completely different way.
And as far as letting it go, I was addressing a quote someone else had just brought up , correcting my quote, if you are following along and not just nipping at my heels.
Lol. Talk about letting go something go. I tell you my thoughts on something, makimg it a clear as i can, and you continually say that's not what I'm thinking or feeling.
I've addressed that evidence at least 5 times with you before and how troublesome it is. I really don't want to turn this into a 911 thread though. It's really a dead horse when it comes to you because you clearly dont even look at the other side.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the evidence presented is 'thin', yet all I recall you presenting is the size of a hole. A hole that was filled with plane debris and the bodies of the passengers.
What is this 'other side' you speak of? Obscure questions?
Ned, my refutation of that questionable evidence had nothing to do with this picture, which, by the way, you still haven't pointed to where either the plane entered the building and got swallowed up or where the bulk of it is on the lawn.
Here is the Pentagon minutes after the strike.
Where is the plane or where did it enter the building and disappear?
"From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed."
Of course, he changed his story once he had some time to think about it, claiming he actually did see all of that stuff.
but none of that is even why your evidence is questionable.
I think my evidence outweighs yours. By a mile.
Let alone what happened to the plane, passengers, etc, of which you offer no theory.
My theory (the one fed to my binary brain!) is based on facts, not some snippet of an observation made by one person. I can pull up eyewitnesses who saw the plane.
I can discredit them and provide a multitude of people that saw a completely different path of the plane than what we are told happened and what your eyewitnesses will say.
Ned, we've done this before. It goes nowhere with you.
Point to the plane to convince me you at least believe what you are saying. You believe a 757 crashed. Show me where it went into the building or where it is on the lawn...in that photo. shouldn't be too hard to do, it was only minutes after the strike.
actually, every person ive seen interviewed who saw the plane approaching the pentagon, including the two cops at the Citgo station, say the plane was in a totally different location that the official story, and one of them, who didnt run scared for his car, said he saw the plane fly away from the pentagon after the "fireball".
Where the smoke is. And the plane debris, and the bodies.
You're damn straight it goes nowhere with me, because it has no merit, let alone any credibility. This is before trying to evaluate your alternate theory of what happened to plane and passengers.
Again, are you claiming the plane debris and bodies found were not actually there? That the coroner's office was "in on it"?
This circles back to what I said yesterday, that there is no way to keep a lid on a conspiracy of this scope.
<<<Where the smoke is. And the plane debris, and the bodies
Bwahahahahahaha!
I'm sorry my eyes aren't as good as yours, apparently.
I see the smoke. check.
Having a hard time with the plane debris and bodies in that picture. Maybe that all went into some big airplane sized hole I'm not seeing? Maybe it's right behind the two plumes of smoke? Help me out here.
lol, what in my history on the black screen makes you think I feel uncomfortable answering questions?
Nice try, Ned, my friend.
I just really don't want to go through a remedial argument again. I've shown you at least 5 times where it's troublesome. What's to say if I do it again you are actually listening and this shit doesn't come up again.
Listen, I realize something about 911 is sticking with you and you are searching for something that will break through to you and finally convince you. I'm sorry I haven't been good enough to show you without doubt. I'm trying.
<<<just a simple binary thinker weighing the evidence presented, and have made my own conclusion
See, the thing is, if you really believed that, you'd leave all of this alone and not spend your valuable time trying to convince one crazy conspiracy theorist on a drug bamd message board that he's crazy.
Usually, when I see a crazy person, I steer clear and leave them alone (there's really no helping them, right?) unless I think they have something for me.
I'm trying to help you with this, Ned, but you need to be open to the amount of dots that start to describe a picture different than the one you were sold.
btw, Ned, we are coming your way in August with the vintage rv to Oregon for the Eclipse and may need to camp in your driveway for a night. No dogs, just two fucking awesome kids and an amazing wife. What do you say!?
I'm totally safe in 3d.
People think you're crazy if you talk about this stuff out loud!
Here's my unsolicited two cents worth on 9/11. Ned and 73, you both seem like reasonable people to me, except where this issue is concerned. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll say that I'm more inclined to agree with Ned, but what I find kind of morbidly fascinating is that you both can't seem to let go of this thing and I wonder why that is.
HL, I can follow along perfectly well. Thanks. Until I get a sense that you have let go of the Hillary hate and see what is actually going on, I guess i'll 'nip at your heels'.
>But I am glad you are here still, Jonas, maybe you could help out with some of the 9/11?
Of course. There is physical evidence and accounts that completely contradict the official 9/11 story. I guess I'm one of those dumb asses that still hold onto 'I don't know what exactly happened but I sure as shit know that the official story is not even close'.
As far as the current topic is concerned; awful still ='s awful. Let's put into DBMB terms... Hillary = selling weed, maybe some mushrooms, never even dabbled in LSD. Trump = selling meth, crank, crack, bath salts & bags of heroin.
<<<We all thought there was a monster under the bed as kids.
I looked and found no monster. HL likes the idea of the monster, and never looked.
OMG. I think you actually typed that with a straight face!
Dude, you( and quite a few others, apparently) just learned about, or at least only just accepted, what the Deep State was yesterday....on this thread....or maybe because Jake Tapper is talking about now, I don't know.
No one reading this believes you've plumbed the depths of anything.
The monster has a hold of your feet and you continue to tell yourself its just a snag on the blankie because mommy said there's no such thing as monsters.
Go back to sleep little guy, it'll be ok.
<<<As far as the current topic is concerned; awful still ='s awful. Let's put into DBMB terms... Hillary = selling weed, maybe some mushrooms, never even dabbled in LSD. Trump = selling meth, crank, crack, bath salts & bags of heroin.
Agreed. Awful is awful, but I have my own metaphor I think will help you. more on that later....
As far as the DBMB terms....I think you will be surprised to find out exactly what your dealer was selling behind your back and I think it may come to light... but Im not holding my breath. ( I see the eye rolls, and no, Im not talking about Pedogate).
I'm sorry I haven't been able to give this thread my proper attention.
Was wrapping up my biannual week of volunteering for Habitat with my seven guys and have been trying to get out of town to go skiing in WVA this weekend.
(How's that for a classic PZ move? Only mention it because its true though.)
btw, Is that a no on the camping this summer, Ned?
Jonas, Im going to try as best as I can to let you see my thinking on this. Please tell me where you think Im off.
A Chinese farmer gets a horse, which soon runs away. A neighbor says, "That's bad news." The farmer replies, "Good news, bad news, who can say?"
The horse comes back and brings another horse with him. Good news, you might say.
The farmer gives the second horse to his son, who rides it, then is thrown and badly breaks his leg.
"So sorry for your bad news," says the concerned neighbor. "Good news, bad news, who can say?" the farmer replies.
In a week or so, the emperor's men come and take every able-bodied young man to fight in a war. The farmer's son is spared.
Good news, of course.
I find Trump detestable and I could cite every reason Greenwald gives above in the Amy Goodman piece...but I wont.
Our country has a cancer and everyone feels it.
Donald Trump is the dumb blunt instrument of Chemotherapy. Detestable as a cure and very likely may kill us all, but his fumbling and ineptitude is exposing exactly the discussions we need to be having. I think Hillary would have convinced us there was no cancer and let it metasticize unknown for 8 years while we all coasted behind her. (Look at Nancy for example, she'd normally be crying about hoodies at TXR, instead, she's Johnnyonthespot with the political threads these days. Go Nanc!)
Trump has awoken our democracy and it is working.
The calls to our representatives are working.
The protests are working.
The courts are working.
The democratic process is working. Trump is finding he isnt above the law.
(And that's exactly why I was protesting to answer your earlier sort of condescending question as to if I knew why I was protesting)
Im just incredibly leary of running to the hems of the Deep State or Intelligence Community's petticoat for protection right now because they happen to see things our way.
What happens when they don't and destroy other good people for political reasons?
I think we are in dangerous waters and I believe that the folks that elected Trump ( the ones with all the guns ) democratically sense a soft coup happening, I think it could go sideways really fast.
I just want people to think about what we are empowering the IC to do now and in the future.
I know you think that's an indictment, but you may be surprised to find out that that's really the prevailing thought in the rest of the world, too. The US is really the only place where you find such a huge number of official story ::believers:: You can see it in the course of these threads over time. It's only going in one direction.
I'm sure that the people being deported, and their children, are happy to be a part of Bannon's Cure.
This reminds me of Mao. While the revolution had many merits, when it sucked (like his crappy agricultural projects plans) people and people said so, they were labeled Imperialist. In this new world, if you are critical of Trump, you are therefore supporting the Deep State. Comrade Bannon thanks you for your support.
oh, Mannfred, I should have added that I was also tied up on Coinbase earlier pulling out some more Bitcoin profits to offset our volunteering this week. Really glad I didn't listen to you when they were cheap. Ready to buy more on the next dip...playing with house money at this point. :-)
<<<Im sure that the people being deported, and their children, are happy to be a part of Bannon's Cure.
Like I said, I'm not happy, but I'm working with the situation, and I see lot of hope. Sorry, if I looked at it any other way, it would be too crushing. I, too, see the shitshow and pain and am not trying to brush past it, Alias.
<<<In this new world, if you are critical of Trump, you are therefore supporting the Deep State.
I don't see it that way at all and I hope that's not what I'm telegraphing here. I think the people are pushing back and he realizes he has to deal with us. Give him the rope to hang himself and we will see to it happening. Hes just dumb enough to be playing checkers in a 3d chess match. , thinking his king Trumps all. We got this. Can we leave creepy uncle Deep State out of this one?
I think you have this idea that people are worried about what side you are on. i'm ust responding to comments on a message board in the context of a larger world. "Support Trump's Cure Or be Branded a Pawn Of the NeoCon Deep State" seems to be the common memo that went out within the last few days within certain circles. Bannon is on his game.
You know someone is losing badly bigly when it gets ad hominem.
>>> that that's really the prevailing thought in the rest of the world, too. The US is really the only place where you find such a huge number of official story ::believers::
<<<and so easy Identify the rubes who parrot that nonsense
right....that pulitzer prize winning Greenwald rube is waaaaaay offbase on this too.
I don't think everyone with Deep State concerns supports Trump's cure in the least, btw. Me being at the top of the list.
Ender has a point.
and sorry mannfred, that was petty, but I was really playing more to the old PZ saw of claiming a rich fulfilling life as I was "losing" . Its a time honored tradition. it was really more tongue in cheek than anything. but I do apologize.
>..American policies toward Russia reflect a multitude of disagreements at the international and domestic levels. Russian foreign policy has often run in opposition to that of the United States, such as Russia’s support for the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria and its military escalations in Eastern Europe.
Similarly, Russia’s disappearing democratic institutions diverge from the American government’s long-standing (though often poorly executed) commitment to liberal democratic values. The American government has rightly been critical of Putin’s dangerous consolidation of power, takeover of national media, violent suppression of political opposition, among other domestic policies and practices.
Given these diverging policies and commitments to authoritarian rather than liberal government, the Putin regime and the American government have little reason to hold mutual good will. And that is reflected in public views on both sides of the world.
An August 2015 report by the Pew Research Center reported that Americans held overwhelmingly negative views of Russia. A large majority—67 percent—were unfavorable and only 22 percent were favorable toward the nation. (As context, only a handful of – mostly Eastern European nations – held less positive views of Russia.)
Americans’ attitudes toward Vladimir Putin were similarly (75 percent) unfavorable.
Pew data also suggests that the feeling is mutual: Only 15 percent of Russians hold favorable views of the United States.
Americans’ attitudes can be stated even more categorically: since Gallup started asking the question in 1999, no more than one-quarter of Americans have ever considered Russia to be an American ally. In 2014, 24 percent characterized Russia as an “enemy” and a further 44 percent described the country as “unfriendly” (the highest ratings ever in the Gallup series).
Despite these long-standing and perhaps increasing animosities, the second half of 2016 and the election of Donald Trump has brought a fascinating shift in public views. A YouGov poll from December showed that while Americans as a whole continue to hold unfavorable views of Russia and Putin, supporters of President-elect Donald Trump diverge from the national trend.
They remain, on balance, negative but 35 percent hold favorable views toward Putin and 28 percent consider Russia to be an ally. Politico provided a good discussion of why views might be changing.
Changing Relations With Russia and the Potential Consequences
While Democratic and Republican leaders have long held critical views of Russia, the past few months have seen a dramatic polarization of viewpoints. Democrats have held steadfast in their concerns about Russia, while Republicans have divided with traditional hawks—like Sensators. John McCain and Lindsey Graham—criticizing the president-elect for his pro-Russian views but numerous others taking well to this radical change of position.
If Republicans eventually rally around the president’s view, we should expect Republican voters to follow the leader. This would create a domestic cleavage surrounding U.S.-Russian relationships for what may be the first time in American history and serve as a dramatic reversal of the Republican Party’s foreign policy platform...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Which one is he again?
Which one is he again?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Doc Ellis Martin
One Down Many More To Go
One Down Many More To Go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
He's the National Security
Flynn is the National Security Advisor who talked to the Russians about the sanctions before the inauguration. A General Kellogg has been named to replace him on an interim basis. Trump is meeting with General Petraeus tomorrow.
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-flynn-russian-blackmail-2017-2
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Old Fart Message Board
Nice. Let's get the Hooker
Nice. Let's get the Hooker dude in there.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
Hopefully this is the start
Hopefully this is the start of the domino effect that gets rid of the whole bunch.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
He broke the law, right?
He broke the law, right?
Pressing charges, I assume.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Cosmic
LIAR DOWN! LIAR DOWN!
LIAR DOWN! LIAR DOWN!
Now give him immunity and let him sing.
What a fucking shit show.
Shockingly not being reported on FOX News.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sigmund
Gone with the Flynn
Gone with the Flynn
Fuck you Nazi administration !
1 Down a coup,e more to go....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ales
thanks for the info mikee, i
thanks for the info mikee, this appears to be great news but that depends on who will be the replacement.
ivanka?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Thumbkinetic
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
What a mess. Haha
What a mess. Haha
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Highnote
Just the tip......
Just the tip......
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ismelltoadsmoke
>>>General Kellogg
>>>General Kellogg
to be replaced by Cap'n Crunch
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Three weeks.
Three weeks.
Must be some kind of record.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
It's like the Nixon
It's like the Nixon administration after 5 years.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Good for the bitch.
Good for the bitch.
>>>this appears to be great news but that depends on who will be the replacement.
So true.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
Hopefully someone that knows
Hopefully someone that knows what they are doing. What a fucking joke.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-white-house/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dave
When Kellyanne Conway said
When Kellyanne Conway said that General Flynn continued to “enjoy the full confidence of the president,” it was obvious that he was a goner.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Back to Back
Watch -- the administration
Watch -- the administration will now say any Russia questions were totally Flynn's doing and you should never ask about it again. Good luck with that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Cosmic
Russian State TV is saying
Russian State TV is saying that he "retired."
Haha
Shits about to get real.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Hillary trolls "Pizzagaters"?
Hillary trolls "Pizzagaters"?
https://mobile.twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/831377792893849600
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
The new saying is now:
The new saying is now:
Out like Flynn
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
This only the beginning.
This only the beginning.
The White House knew about this for weeks and did nothing.
What a mess.
What did the Trumpster know and when did he know it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-departmen...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Flynn is one of the crazies
Flynn is one of the crazies who fell for the fake Pizzagate story so no surprise she's celebrating his demise. Well, that and he was a risk to our national security.
All the Presidents men will be out like Flynn soon enough. We can assume that the CIA has transcripts of their treasonous phone calls.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: charmskooldropout
It's funny when Nanc calls
It's funny when Nanc calls someone crazy
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Because there' no reason to
Because there's no reason to believe the elite also engage in this type of thing........... right?
http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio...
"The logs also show that Clinton shared more than a dozen flights with a woman who federal prosecutors believe procured underage girls to sexually service Epstein and his friends and acted as a "potential co-conspirator" in his crimes.
Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 in Florida to one count of soliciting underage girls for sex (and one count of adult solicitation), for which he served just over a year in county jail. But sprawling local, state, and federal investigations into the eccentric investor's habit of paying teen girls for "massages"—sessions during which he would allegedly penetrate girls with sex toys, demand to be masturbated, and have intercourse—turned up a massive network of victims, including 35 female minors whom federal prosecutors believed he'd sexually abused. He has reportedly settled lawsuits from more than 30 "Jane Doe" victims since 2008; the youngest alleged victim was 12 years old at the time of her abuse."
" Virginia Roberts, claimed in a federal court filing that Epstein recruited her as a "sex slave" at the age of 15 and "sexually trafficked [her] to politically-connected and financially-powerful people," including Prince Andrew and attorney Alan Dershowitz."
But hey, I hear Beyonce is pregnant again!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Yes, NAMBLA exists, as do
Yes, NAMBLA exists, as do fucked up people who are into abusing children, sharing pedo porn on the interns and worse. none of which has do to with the invented Pizzagate story.
And yes, Flynn and anyone else who believe that Pizzagate is real is absolutely crazy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
My link speaks to the elite
My link speaks to the elite trafficking in children, not any of the superfluous stuff you just mentioned.
Either you don't read so good or you are being purposefully obtuse.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
yes, and just like Pizzagate
yes, and just like Pizzagate the story implicates the Clintons!!!!
great investigative work, Agent 73.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
What makes one a global elite
What makes one a global elite? A lot of gold and a jet?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Admin, I feel that this
Admin, I feel that this thread is becoming contentious, perhaps you can start a new folder for 'elite trafficking in children' so that Agent 73 and Lassen can take their pedophile chat there?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
The FBI knows all...
The FBI knows all...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> take their pedophile chat
> take their pedophile chat there
This is a treason thread and it'd be swell if we could keep it that way.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: BBGD4fun
Admin, I feel that this
Admin, I feel that this thread is becoming contentious, perhaps you can start a new folder for 'elite trafficking in children' so that Agent 73 and Lassen can take their pedophile chat there? <<<
What about free speech? Personally, I love hearing everybody's take. That way I get to weigh everything. I like to stay at the top of the decision triangle and enjoy some cognitive dissonance to keep me honest.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>and enjoy some
>>>>>and enjoy some cognitive dissonance to keep me honest.
Unfortunately, plenty of opportunities for such these daze.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
Staying on topic here, This
Staying on topic here, This is HUGE. Some people say his actions would qualify as Treason. Thats why i think Trump dumped him. And if Conway knew this was coming, she would then be lying. Where are the tweets from the CPOTUS calling him "crooked Flynnary" and "crooked Conway". SAD.
Personally this is giving me a little satisfaction and hope. Not a lot, but a bit.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
> Thats why i think Trump
> Thats why i think Trump dumped him.<
Trump has known about it for at least 3 weeks. He dumped him because the info was leaked to the public
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
Jeffery E was never quiet
Jeffery E was never quiet about his gig, and everyone in Palm Beach knew about the "lolita express" and the island. the house here was always rocking at the pool. At first it was just topless chics and canopes by the pool on the weekends, but it morphed it seems as he got bored. he loved having powerful friends.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
and to be on Topic,
and to be on Topic, everything legal i have read said he was allowed to take and have all those calls in an incoming. I think Spicers take on it is straight, that Trump didnt trust him on what was discussed. Flynn was one of his worst picks, yet the Patriot crowd loves him. total loose canon.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
Yeah Truck. Dats what i mean,
Yeah Truck. Dats what i mean, i think because the word "Treason" starting hitting the press, he was forced to pull the plug. Thats a word thats hard to justify even to his supporters, who seem to ignore reality.
So "crooked Trumpary" Lock him up! SAD.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
jail them all.
jail them all.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Offer Flynn immunity and get
Offer Flynn immunity and get him to testify.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Offer Flynn immunity and
>> Offer Flynn immunity and get him to testify.
Immunity from what charges?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Violating the Logan Act.
Violating the Logan Act.
aka Treason
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Apparently he was interviewed
Apparently he was interviewed by the FBI about this, so there might be perjury involved.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> there might be perjury
>> there might be perjury involved.
When was he under oath?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
ender is hoping trump stays
ender is hoping trump stays prez for charter school purposes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
don't need to be under oath,
don't need to be under oath, it is a crime to lie to federal agents.
"It's called Making False Statements and it is a federal crime; Section 1001 of Title 18. Martha Stewart, Bernie Madoff, and Scooter Libby are all individuals who have been convicted of this."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Nancy, That's not perjury.
Nancy, That's not perjury.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: charmskooldropout
Lotta armchair FBI agents on
Lotta armchair FBI agents on this site
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Fact: Russia hacked the DNC
Fact: Russia hacked the DNC and released embarrassing emails that helped The Republican Party to get elected
Fact: We now know while the Russians were hacking the DNC and helping the Republican party win - General Flynn was having secret conversations with Russia telling them not react to their diplomats being expelled because they would reverse the sanctions once in place.
Please take a moment to think about the heads exploding shit storm we would be having right now if Russia leaked Republican emails during an election and then the Democrats named someone to head up the NSA who had secrete conversations with the Russians during the elections promising them to reverse sanctions
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> Lotta armchair FBI agents
> Lotta armchair FBI agents on this site
A functioning republic requires its citizens to be knowledgeable about the issues.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Oh come on, Ender. What part
Oh come on, Ender. What part don't you get or you just playing dumb? Obviously Flynn broke the law by lying to the FBI and for trying to undermine the US Government (he contacted Russia while Obama was still President).
Took about 2 seconds to google the law, Hound Her.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> ender is hoping trump
>> ender is hoping trump stays prez for charter school purposes.
Stay as prez? Trump is facing impeachment??? Man this echo chamber is loud!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
I think Trump will probably
I think Trump will probably resign before he faces impeachment. He doesn't like being told that he can't do stuff, like yesterday when he was put on a Twitter time out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> Obviously Flynn broke the
>> Obviously Flynn broke the law by lying to the FBI
Did the FBI say that? He could have refused to answer their questions and lied to the public. Certainly any representation worth it's salt wouldn't allow him to lie and incriminate himself.
While it is not clear what he said in his F.B.I. interview, Mr. Flynn maintained publicly for more than a week after his interview that his conversations with the ambassador had been innocuous and did not involve Russian sanctions, something now known to be false.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/fbi-interviewed-mike-flyn...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
true, we don't know if he
true, we don't know if he lied to the FBI, but if he actually lied to VP Pence, it's highly likely.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/did-michael-flynn-l...
>>Wash, rinse, repeat: The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
As much change as President Trump has tried to bring to Washington in his eventful first weeks as president, he hasn’t yet altered the enduring truth in that Watergate-era cliché. Michael Flynn discovered it anew on Monday night when he submitted his resignation as national security adviser. It wasn’t that Flynn discussed sensitive matters of policy with the Russian ambassador before he took office that led to his ouster, press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters over and over again on Tuesday: It was the fact that he lied about it to Vice President Mike Pence and other senior members of the Trump administration that caused the president to sack him.
That cover-up may cost Flynn way more than his job if the FBI determines that he lied to its investigators in the same way he misled Pence about his discussions with the Russian ambassador during the presidential transition. The New York Times reported on Tuesday afternoon that the FBI interviewed Flynn in the days after Trump became president last month. The bureau had been investigating whether his post-election phone call with Russian ambassador Sergei Kislyak violated the Logan Act, a 1799 prohibition on private citizens corresponding with foreign governments “in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States.” But if history is a guide, Flynn’s conversation with FBI agents at the White House could cause him more legal trouble than his phone call with Kislyak in November.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Even if he did lie to the FBI
Even if he did lie to the FBI, there is no case without the warrantless wiretap. And it's probably not admissible.
Criminal prosecution under the NSA program
Evidence gathered without warrant may raise significant Fourth Amendment issues which could preclude its use in a criminal trial. As a general rule of law, evidence obtained improperly without lawful authority, may not be used in a criminal prosecution. The U.S. Supreme Court has never addressed the constitutionality of warrantless searches (which has been broadly defined by the court to include surveillance) targeting foreign powers or their agents, the admissibility of such evidence in a criminal trial nor whether it is permissible to obtain or use evidence gathered without warrant against US persons acting as agents of a foreign power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(2001%E2%80%9307)#Criminal_prosecution_under_the_NSA_program
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
War with Russia Lol
War with Russia
Lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
obviously the firing of AG
obviously the firing of AG Sally Yates (who was aware of Flynn's transgressions) is most suspect...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smokestack
trump was informed jan 26
trump was informed jan 26 flynn was lying
pence didn't find out until feb 9
wtf?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smokestack
trump was informed jan 26
dbl
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
war with Russia is no joke.
war with Russia is no joke. add this to the relevance (from NYT):
Russia Deploys Missile, Violating Treaty and Challenging Trump
Obama tried to stop this. Now there are two fully functioning battalions of missiles.
trump and Putin are apparently besties. how will this kind of stuff help? We had made progress in this regard and now t rump is "the decider". good lord what a mess
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
Yes it is
Yes it is
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: (~)};)StealYourFace
trump was informed jan 26
trump was informed jan 26 flynn was lying
pence didn't find out until feb 9
wtf?
The GOP is trying to shield Pence from Trump's wrongdoings so they get their man when the duped Trump gets impeached...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
I don't think so, WALSTIB. I
I don't think so, WALSTIB. I think it's much more likely that Pence just isn't part of the Trump's inner circle. He's a member of the establishment that Trump is trying to take down.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Flynn is just the tip of the
Flynn is just the tip of the Russian iceberg.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/02/nyt-trump-team-had-repeate...
>>Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.
American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time that they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee....The intercepts alarmed American intelligence and law enforcement agencies, in part because of the amount of contact that was occurring while Mr. Trump was speaking glowingly about the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin....The officials said the intercepted communications were not limited to Trump campaign officials, and included other associates of Mr. Trump.
....Officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, which Russian intelligence officials were on the calls, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians.
This is from Michael Schmidt, Mark Mazzetti, and Matt Apuzzo at the New York Times. If Trump thought that firing Michael Flynn was going to stop the recent bloodletting, he thought wrong.
Just to make this clear: At the same time that Russian intelligence was hacking various email accounts in order to sabotage Hillary Clinton, multiple members of the Trump team had repeated phone calls with senior Russian intelligence officials. And during this entire time, Trump himself was endorsing a foreign policy that appeared almost as if it had been dictated to him by Vladimir Putin.
As a number of people have pointed out, the American intelligence community has all but declared war on Trump since his inauguration. I hardly need to spell out why this is dangerous. At the same time, it's sure becoming a lot clearer why they're so alarmed by the guy.
And by the way, I shouldn't miss this chance to flog my favorite hobbyhorse again: FBI Director James Comey, who knew all about this, pushed hard not to make it public during the campaign. Instead he considered it more important to inform Congress that he had discovered additional copies of Hillary Clinton's emails on Anthony Weiner's laptop. Priorities.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
https://theintercept.com/2017
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14/the-leakers-who-exposed-gen-flynns-l...
"In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:"
"Yet very few people are calling for a criminal investigation or the prosecution of these leakers, nor demanding the leakers step forward and “face the music” — for very good reason: The officials leaking this information acted justifiably, despite the fact that they violated the law. That’s because the leaks revealed that a high government official, Gen. Flynn, blatantly lied to the public about a material matter — his conversations with Russian diplomats — and the public has the absolute right to know this."
"It’s very possible — I’d say likely — that the motive here was vindictive rather than noble. Whatever else is true, this is a case where the intelligence community, through strategic (and illegal) leaks, destroyed one of its primary adversaries in the Trump White House."
"IT IS, OF COURSE, bizarre to watch this principle now so widely celebrated. Over the last eight years, President Obama implemented the most vindictive and aggressive war on whistleblowers in all of U.S. history. As Leonard Downie, one of the editors at the Washington Post during the Watergate investigation, put it in a special report: “The [Obama] administration’s war on leaks and other efforts to control information are the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration.”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Pence likely leaker
Pence likely leaker
Deep State Coup on tap
Vice President John E. Bush
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
New Senate Minority Leader
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
New Senate Minority Leader
New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is "being really dumb" by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia's cyber activities.
"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/02/cia_broke_the_law_to_take_ou...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I'm no Trump fan but the
I'm no Trump fan but the mainstream media’s sudden concern for Flynn having potentially violated the Logan Act is interesting given that establishment politicians have been violating the Logan Act for decades by physically meeting with foreign officials at Bilderberg conferences, without a hint of dissent from the press.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow<
Sounds like Schumer is saying that everybody in Washington is dirty.
Regarding the Logan act... The story is the Trump campaign colluding with Russia. Flynn's violation of the Logan act is the merely the first tangible piece of evidence of this collusion. If there were no other shoe to drop, the Flynn story would not be garnering this level of coverage...IMO.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Zzzzzz
Trump is a Traitor....He has
Trump is a Traitor....He has an imbalanced portfolio of Russian holdings (according to the Washington Post). He's willing to sell this country down the river so that he can make more money over the long run. He has no idea how much he is going to screw this country all for the sake of himself.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> John E. Bush
> John E. Bush
Jeb? How does he figure into this?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
There is another component to
There is another component to this story as well -- as Trump himself just tweeted. It's very rare that reporters are ever told about government-monitored communications of U.S. citizens, let alone senior U.S. officials. The last story like this to hit Washington was in 2009 when Jeff Stein, then of CQ, reported on intercepted phone calls between a senior Aipac lobbyist and Jane Harman, who at the time was a Democratic member of Congress.
Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.
In the past it was considered scandalous for senior U.S. officials to even request the identities of U.S. officials incidentally monitored by the government (normally they are redacted from intelligence reports). John Bolton's nomination to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations wasderailed in 2006 after the NSA confirmed he had made 10 such requests when he was Undersecretary of State for Arms Control in George W. Bush's first term. The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
>The fact that the intercepts
>The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.<
The red flag is that there is much more to the story. without public pressure the Trump administration would sweep it under the rug. This is why this is being leaked...IMO
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
from Russia with love
from Russia with love
new Cruise Missiles
US General in Afghanistan testifies Monday that Russia is arming the Taliban and other fighters there
russia spy ship off the coast of Delaware tuesday morning.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
and regarding the
and regarding the intelligence community, it is still my thought that the all the leaks in the run up to the election originated inside our intelligence arena and were passed to wiki to diverted and fingerprinted to attention that way
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Tweet from Assange today
Tweet from Assange today speaks to precisely that, Hollis.
https://twitter.com/julianassange/status/831858565535129600
"battle for dominance between US elected govt and the IC who see themselves as "permanent govt" "
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
Will the best people be
Will the best people be vetting the new guy?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
hee hee 73
hee hee 73
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
>>>>BRUSSELS (AP) -- Pentagon
>>>>BRUSSELS (AP) -- Pentagon chief Mattis tells NATO allies to increase defense spending by year's end or US will 'moderate its commitment.'
how is the timing of this? good god.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
>I'm no Trump fan but the
>I'm no Trump fan but the mainstream media’s sudden concern for Flynn having potentially violated the Logan Act is interesting given that establishment politicians have been violating the Logan Act for decades by physically meeting with foreign officials at Bilderberg conferences, without a hint of dissent from the press.
Come on man. Did you steal that from Conroy's or Spicers twitter? You're bridging that gap from being a Hillary hater to a Trump supporter. This is way outside the Logan Act.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I marched with the Women on
I marched with the Women on the mall and for the Muslims at Dulles. You are way off.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I just happen to believe the
I just happen to believe the folks telling us there is a Deep State war against Trump right now and he has no idea the 4d chess that the IC is playing against him, nor is he up to the task of fighting it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/831904125101211648
IC community goes nuclear "he will die in jail"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
So now the Pizzagate people
So now the Pizzagate people are blaming the IC for attacking the Russian Stooge POTUS?
Odd how the Hillary haters seem to be defending Trump.
It is almost like the only reason they supported Bernie was to attack Clinton.
Which was the Russian plan.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Note that wikileaks is now
Note that wikileaks is now defending Trump.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
thats not how i see it
thats not how i see it through my lens Steve
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Mannfred, you were running
Mannfred, you were running around blaming "Bernie Bros" in Virginia for electing Trump on election night as it was going blue.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
The Russian plan was to amp
The Russian plan was to amp up the bernie Bros with hatred for Clinton.
It worked.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/13/how-putin-played-the-fa...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
That article brings up some
That article brings up some good points about Stein, but only tangentially mentions the "Bernie Bros".
oooh, and it makes the groundbreaking assertion that extremists are extreme and overlap sometimes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
https://www.washingtonpost
Two explosive reports on Trump and Russia. Zero on-the-record sources.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/15/two-explosive-...
Though the Times and CNN relied exclusively on unnamed sources, both loaded up their reports with caveats.
From the Times:
The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
It is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society.
It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.
From CNN:
Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual.
Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.
These officials cautioned the Russians could have been exaggerating their access.
The communications were gathered as part of routine US intelligence collection and not because people close to Trump were being targeted.
I'm not excusing Trump, but they need to release the transcripts.
Seems like a lot of serious people have been hyperventilating about something still unproven, however likely.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
Now CNN reports Pudzer (yes I
Now CNN reports Pudzer (yes I can spell) isnt gonna make it to Labor Secretary. Too many pubs are against the man. HA! another evil drone getting smacked down. This guy was a terrible pick, as per the norm form our new decider. Maybe Pudzer can be replaced by a robot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
>You are way off.
>You are way off.
Simply stated, no I'm not. Were you clear with what you were marching for?
>I just happen to believe the folks telling us there is a Deep State war against Trump right now and he has no idea the 4d chess that the IC is playing against him
Deep State war??? I wish I could laugh and equate this to a game.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
No one is laughing and I'm
No one is laughing and I'm speaking to the level of complexity Trump has no idea he is facing in referencing "a game". Im not "equating' this to a game.
I'm not sure that you are clear why you think Im wrong here.
Binary thinking wont serve you well in the next four years, my friend.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
Everything from your ssn to
Everything from your ssn to the food you eat to the money you spend is a conspiracy. All a big ruse played out on us by the global elites so they can trade in children.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I am far less concerned with
I am far less concerned with what Flynn said (unless it turns out to be either quid pro quo or directly undermining the sitting president) than the fact that he lied about it, not just to the public but to his own VP and possibly the FBI. That's not a good start for an NSA. Combine that with him already being a conspiracy spreading wackjob. Good riddance. I imagine Pence is pretty pissed at the whole thing, and should be.
As far as the campaign people talking to Russia, I thought that already came out during the campaign. We already know the whole administration is Russian stooges, but a lot of America is OK with that. And yes, a lot of the Still Bitter For Bernie crowd is way into that. I get the part about lets not make a war, but it takes big boy pants to deal with Russia, and no one should act like it is someplace where there are unrigged elections, where everyone has a fair wage, where you can speak your mind. A working relationship is necessary, but I think it is fair to be concerned with a President who is TOO cozy with any other major nation. Especially when this guy has mad autocratic tendencies and doesn't seem to understand the first thing about how our constitutional structure is different from theirs. "But Russia did it" is not going to be acceptable. Can you imagine if Hillary had put Pussy Riot in jail?
I am surprised that Puzder is where the GOP is drawing the line. Since when do they care that a guy hates his own workers and doesn't want to pay them?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
>>>>Deep State war???
>>>>Deep State war???
The new word du jour of the wiki/trump/fox/bernie/brietbart/bannon crowd. Well duh, the world is full of spies and political intrigue. That's why we still talk about who killed Kennedy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>> I imagine Pence is
>>>>> I imagine Pence is pretty pissed at the whole thing, and should be.
He's the NY Times "leak"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<The new word du jour of
<<<The new word du jour of the wiki/trump/fox/bernie/brietbart/bannon crowd.
Actually, I spent a lot of time on the other site in the 9/11 threads trying to convince Ned the Deep State was a real thing,
I've been talking about if for quite some time.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Hi Guy Smiley!!
Hi Guy Smiley!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
Certainly, this article seals
Certainly, this article seals the deal!
http://diffuser.fm/moby-donald-trump-russia-blackmail/?utm_source=sailth...
Sorry Trump...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
HL73....if this Deep State is
HL73....if this Deep State is so ingrained, so in control, why did they 'allow' Trump to get elected in the first place?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
get him ned.
get him ned.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
the Trump propaganda machine
the Trump propaganda machine
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/02/15/how-propaganda-works-fake-news
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ________
>>if this Deep State is so
>>if this Deep State is so ingrained, so in control, why did they 'allow' Trump to get elected in the first place?
No one is in control.
And I don't need hundreds of links and thousands of words to prove it either.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
Whose state is deeper?
Whose state is deeper?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Fly
The derp state
The derp state
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<.if this Deep State is so
<<<.if this Deep State is so ingrained, so in control,
<<<No one is in control.
lol.
::sigh::
I assumed you knew what the Deep State was. From your posts, you are either assuming a lot or very uninformed.
I knew I should have linked this before the deluge of derp that just happened.
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/
I think this link fairly presents its assets, limitations and interests.
Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
It's not some all powerful, all seeing sinister monolithic entity as your hyperbole infers.
I'm not claiming here or anywhere else that it is, but it is a thing, nonlocalized and has its own continued interests and resources.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
more from the 2014 article.
more from the 2014 article....
The Deep State does not consist of the entire government. It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street. All these agencies are coordinated by the Executive Office of the President via the National Security Council. Certain key areas of the judiciary belong to the Deep State, such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, whose actions are mysterious even to most members of Congress. Also included are a handful of vital federal trial courts, such as the Eastern District of Virginia and the Southern District of Manhattan, where sensitive proceedings in national security cases are conducted. The final government component (and possibly last in precedence among the formal branches of government established by the Constitution) is a kind of rump Congress consisting of the congressional leadership and some (but not all) of the members of the defense and intelligence committees. The rest of Congress, normally so fractious and partisan, is mostly only intermittently aware of the Deep State and when required usually submits to a few well-chosen words from the State’s emissaries.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>>>All these agencies are
>>>All these agencies are coordinated by the Executive Office of the President via the National Security Council.
derp
But, then again, I probably don't know what derp really is. Or who it is....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Yes, The National Security
Yes, The National Security Council coordinates those departments mentioned as being a part of the Deep State.
I don't think he is saying that's the nucleus of monolithic thoughtmission. Maybe he is. Either way, it supports my point that it's a real thing.
or maybe I missed your point?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I thought you were saying the
I thought you were saying the Deep State is behind taking down Trump, Flynn et al.
Yet, the Deep State is coordinated by the NSC.
That is all.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Fair enough, Ned. I see where
Fair enough, Ned. I see where you are perceiving an apparent disconnect.
I think you are forgetting that article was written in 2014 before we had Trump as president openly questioning the findings of the IC.
It was also written before the Weiner laptop was in possesion of the FBI and we had open politicization of intelligence.
My armchair guess is that the locus of power involved in this thing has naturally migrated slightly away from the Executive Office of the President as posited in the article.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
From NPR...
From NPR...
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence...
A current U.S. intelligence official tells NPR's Mary Louise Kelly that there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the transcripts of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, although the official noted that doesn't rule out the possibility of illegal actions.
The official also says that there are recordings as well as transcripts of the calls, and that the transcripts don't suggest Flynn was acting under orders in his conversations.
Ooh, there are tapes and transcripts. Release them.
The intelligence official who has personally seen the transcripts told Mary Louise they contained "no evidence" of criminal wrongdoing, although the official said it can't be definitively ruled out.
The official also said there was "absolutely nothing" in the transcripts that suggests Flynn was acting under instructions "or that the trail leads higher."
"I don't think [Flynn] knew he was doing anything wrong," the official said.
This supports Nancys earlier comment that maybe his sin wasnt in talking to the Russians, but how he portrayed that call to his superiors and what he left out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Thanks for that moyers link,
Thanks for that moyers link, 73.
> the Deep State is coordinated by the NSC
Aspects of the Deep State are coordinated by the NSC, but, as the article notes, "It is not too much to say that Wall Street may be the ultimate owner of the Deep State and its strategies, if for no other reason than that it has the money to reward government operatives with a second career that is lucrative beyond the dreams of avarice — certainly beyond the dreams of a salaried government employee."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Wrong. I said that both the
Wrong, agent 73. I've said that both the treasonous contact with the Russians and the cover up are going to sink All the Presidents men, and The President. it may have to wait till the Dems take back the senate, but it's not just about misleading anyone's superiors when Trump himself is Putin's puppet.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Jesus, Nancy. I was agreeing
Jesus, Nancy. I was agreeing with you and you still somehow twist it around.
Take a deep breath.
<<<Thanks for that moyers link, 73.
You're welcome, Mike.
Good stuff, huh?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
Dude this is gnarly.
Dude this is gnarly.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I think its kind of common
I think its kind of common sense. Do you really think the people who run the world are going to give that up just because there's an election or because we signed a peace or trade treaty or because the nation's politics moves to the right or left or because some guy retired or because a war ended or began?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Mr. Guy,
Mr. Guy,
Are you suggesting the Deep State was responsible for 9/11 (designed/implemented), or simply that it was emboldened and strengthened by 9/11?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Wow, that was fast.
Wow, that was fast.
The Deep State just went from a buzzword du jour crazy conspiracy theory to "common sense" in about 20 posts.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I'm historically sloooooow.
I'm historically sloooooow.
Answer?
Hey, I can edit too :). I never said, or even implied, it is common sense. Simply trying to clarify your position.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Settle down, Neddy. It's not
Settle down, Neddy. It's not always about you.
Someone else above you mentioned common sense. I'm addressing the spectrum of criticism here.
I really don't think we need to start into 911. I can expound if you really need me to, but we've tortured this poor board with that shit enough.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Answer the question agent 73
Answer the question agent 73
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
It's a simple question, Senor
It's a simple question, Senor Guy.
Here's what I'm getting at: If you think 9/11 was "set up" by this Deep State, or some other nefarious organization, the leaking we're seeing today proves that would have been impossible to keep a lid on. The career intel folks are leaking because they don't like what they're seeing. They see a threat to our country and security. There's no way in hell there could have been any, yes, conspiracy to demo WTC, or fly cruise missiles into Pentagon without work leaking out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Ned, I know exactly what you
Ned, I know exactly what you are getting at.
As much as a thumbnail sketch hardly does it justice, all you have to do is look at the signers of the Project For A New American Century to see some of the major players. This was a Neocon paper/ project in 1999 that openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda, which looks a lot like the world today.
Thesee folks all ended up in key positions that seem to cross over the described departments in the Moyers article. I don't think the groupthink of the Deep State would have permitted such an overtly criminal act on its own people as an entity, but I think a faction within it could have pulled it off.
And as much as you don't think there are leaks, all you have to do is spend a little time looking at some of the questions surrounding that day to see information has leaked out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
"Here’s the thing: It can’t
"Here’s the thing: It can’t be both fake news and an illegal leak of classified information.
'Your honor, I did not murder that man. The real criminal is whoever filmed me strangling him.' "
Colbert
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
It's the whole 'I don't have answers, just simply asking questions...' approach that spoils the stew of deductive thought. Intellectual laziness.
Could it be (blah, blah, spew)?
Nope. Save that shit for Ancient Aliens.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>>> This was a Neocon paper/
>>> This was a Neocon paper/ project in 1999 that openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda, which looks a lot like the world today. <<<
This applies today, and four years ago, and 12 years from now. Not buying it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
lol. it's not lazy. it's
Lol. It's not lazy. It's realistic.
I wasn't there. How on earth could I say what happened.
If you showed me a large black thorny fruit and called it an apple, I wouldn't invent a name and story for it, but I sure as hell would know it wasn't an apple.
Aaaand we are back to the same territory where you just maintain "bullshit" and "not buying it" without any refutation based in fact. happens every time we get into the details.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> Good stuff, huh?
> Good stuff, huh?
The article by Lofgren was well-written and provides a fairly detailed view of the Deep State, so yeah, I'd call the reporting good stuff.
> openly pined for a catalyzing "pearl Harbor style event" that would enable them to rally the people and advance their agenda
There's a huge difference between pining for and executing. The Lofgren article states "My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day."
My take is the Deep State is more opportunistic than operative. The events of 9/11 might have answered the pining of the Deep State, but I don't think it was orchestrated. I see greed as a motivator--it's like Bill Graham once said; "It's not the money; it's the money"--but in my mind that's not sufficient motivation to kill thousands of US citizens in an operation like you propose.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>>Aaaand we are back to the
>>Aaaand we are back to the same territory where you just maintain "bullshit" and "not buying it" without any refutation based in fact. happens every time we get into the details.
More backward-bending logic.
I'm not here to refute baseless questions. Make your case. You willfully ignore evidence found at Pentagon. Your choice.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Agreed, mike.
Agreed, mike.
And as you can see above I acknowledged as much in bringing up the article and answered Ned's question about the extent to which the Deep State was involved.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<< You willfully ignore
<<< You willfully ignore evidence found at Pentagon. Your choice.
You have a pretty short term memory, as I've shown you time and again how thin that evidence really is.
Talk about willfully ignoring.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
AA77/Pentagon evidence is
AA77/Pentagon evidence is thin?
I can't debate with you if you really think this to be true.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Thin:
Thin:
Remains that were recovered from the Pentagon were photographed, and turned over to the Armed Forces Medical Examiner office, located at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The medical examiner's office was able to identify remains belonging to 179 of the victims.[85] Investigators eventually identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the attack.[86] The remains of the five hijackers were identified through a process of elimination, and were turned over as evidence to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).[87] On September 21, the ACFD relinquished control of the crime scene to the FBI. The Washington Field Office, National Capital Response Squad (NCRS), and the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) led the crime scene investigation at the Pentagon.
Even thinner:
At around 3:40 a.m. on September 14, a paramedic and a firefighter who were searching through the debris of the impact site found two dark boxes, about 1.5 feet (46 cm) by 2 feet (61 cm) long. They called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The NTSB employee confirmed that these were the flight recorders ("black boxes") from American Airlines Flight 77.[89] Dick Bridges, deputy manager for Arlington County, Virginia, said the cockpit voice recorder was damaged on the outside and the flight data recorder was charred. Bridges said the recorders were found "right where the plane came into the building."
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
>>>>The Deep State just went
>>>>The Deep State just went from a buzzword du jour crazy conspiracy theory to "common sense" in about 20 posts.
HAH
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
“One of these days we will
“One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
sorry, back to Trump being a
sorry, back to Trump being a Russian agent.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
Russian Agent?http://www.cnbc
Russian Agent?
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/15/marine-le-pen-is-on-course-to-be-frances-...
----------------------
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/16/can-russia-derail-a-fre...
---------------------
http://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-aide-blames-russia-for-ha...
same narrative, huh?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
> same narrative, huh?
> same narrative, huh?
It's an old story writ anew.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>>sorry, back to Trump
>>>>>sorry, back to Trump being a Russian agent.
He only cares about himself. He's just willing to take help from anyone who offers it to him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
The zone is way more
The zone is way more entertaining with Trump in office.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
http://thehill.com/policy
http://thehill.com/policy/international/319832-mattis-very-little-doubt-...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Brennan
does anyone have the cock pic
does anyone have the cock pic puff sent cumberlyn a few years ago? always wanted to get a look at that bad boy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
puff's dick?
puff's dick?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://twitter.com/amacker
>>> The zone is way more entertaining with Trump in office.
(Note: these are WSJ reporters)
https://twitter.com/amacker/status/832308092322856962
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: W. Claude Dukenfield
^^The zone is way more
^^The zone is way more entertaining with Trump in office.
Hell yeah. The Trumpster has got a lot of zoners out of the station and right off the goddamn rails. Funny stuff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
A fine example of Trump's
A fine example of Trump's signature word salad from today's so-called press conference:
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
KILLARY GAVE PUTIN URANIUM
KILLARY GAVE PUTIN URANIUM FOR RAMADAN !!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
If you didn't pull that from
If you didn't pull that from Breitbart or Infowars, Ned, it will probably be up on one of them by the end of the day. lol.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://twitter.com/jk
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/832302368553312257
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
http://talkingpointsmemo.com
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/about-the-press-conference
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
Perfectly normal behavior.
Perfectly normal behavior.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Things Said by People Who Are
Things Said by People Who Are Ranting and Raving, for $500, Alex.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
I have said before "If you
I have said before "If you find yourself yelling I'm not crazy, you're probably crazy"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://www.washingtonpost
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/flynn-in-fbi-interview-denied-discussing-sanctions-with-russian-ambassador/2017/02/16/e3e1e16a-f3d5-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Ender owes me a cookie.
Ender owes me a cookie.
Lying to FBI is a crime.
is it necessary for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to file charges and prosecute - or can the FBI just arrest Flynn now and sort it all out in court?
>>Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn denied to FBI agents in an interview last month that he had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country’s ambassador to the United States before President Trump took office, contradicting the contents of intercepted communications collected by intelligence agencies, current and former U.S. officials said.
The Jan. 24 interview potentially puts Flynn in legal jeopardy, as lying to the FBI is a felony, but any decision to prosecute would ultimately lie with the Justice Department. Some officials said bringing a case could prove difficult in part because Flynn may attempt to parse the definition of sanctions.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Pardon
Pardon
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> can the FBI just arrest
>> can the FBI just arrest Flynn now and sort it all out in court?
Good luck admitting a warrantless wiretap that was illegally sourced in a criminal trial.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
But who will Pardon Trump?
But who will Pardon Trump? I don't see VP Pence doing it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Patience, grasshopper Ender.
Patience, grasshopper Ender.
You're too young to remember Ollie North or Watergate.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Who wouldn't pardon him? It's
Who wouldn't pardon him? It's all deep state stuff above my tax bracket.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> You're too young to
>> You're too young to remember Ollie North or Watergate.
You're supposed to attack the argument, not an attribute of the person making the argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Poor snowflake.
If you feel attacked over that, all I can say is
Poor Snowflake.
Nothing to say about Watergate or Ollie North then?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
I'll attack your argument,
I'll attack your argument, Ender.
Flynn apparently lied to the FBI in an interview with the FBI.
How is that not admissable?
As an addendum, the wiretaps were legal, and presumably done by at least two different agencies, based on my current understanding, which could be wrong:
1) the NSA, which apparently records the Russian Ambassador's calls as a standard practice;
and
2) the FBI, which had apparently been granted a FISA warrant to eavesdrop on members of Trump's team, including Flynn.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Interesting, the NSA
>> Flynn apparently lied to the FBI in an interview with the FBI.
>> How is that not admissable?
It is, but you have to have the leaked telephone call admitted to prove he lied to them.
Interestingly, the NSA warrantless wiretaps of the call would not be admissible, but the FISA warranted wiretap would.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(2001%E2%80%9307)#Criminal_prosecution_under_the_NSA_program
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/new-eff-aclu-amicus-brief-argues-c...
So I guess they can get him for lying to a federal officer, but not perjury, treason, or violation of Logan Act.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jeff
ender's got a rosey ass from
ender's got a rosey ass from all that spanking by nancy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
Harward just turned down the
Harward just turned down the offer
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Harward didn't want Flynn's
Harward didn't want Flynn's deputy, K. T. McFarland, to remain, but Trump did, so it's down to Kellogg and Petraeus, who has already had his own intelligence scandal. I would think that Kellogg is the safe choice, but since this is Trump we're talking about, who the hell knows?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/robert-harward-turns-down-national-security-adviser-job/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://twitter.com/CBSNews
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/832367907841642501
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
The well oiled machine is
The well oiled machine is having some break downs again.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Good career move.
Good career move.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://twitter.com
>>> So I guess they can get him for lying to a federal officer, but not perjury, treason, or violation of Logan Act.
https://twitter.com/20committee/status/832366312693325824
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
From Democracy Now and Amy
From Democracy Now and Amy Goodman......
Greenwald: Empowering the "Deep State" to Undermine Trump is Prescription for Destroying Democracy
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/2/16/greenwald_empowering_the_deep_sta...
Some supporters of Trump, including Breitbart News, are now accusing the intelligence agencies of attempting to wage a "deep state coup" against the president. Meanwhile, some critics of Trump are openly embracing such activity, like Bill Kristol, the prominent Republican analyst who founded The Weekly Standard. He wrote on Twitter, "Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state."
So, still with us, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept, speaking to us from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Glenn, explain what the deep state is, and respond.
The deep state, although there’s no precise or scientific definition, generally refers to the agencies in Washington that are permanent power factions. They stay and exercise power even as presidents who are elected come and go. They typically exercise their power in secret, in the dark, and so they’re barely subject to democratic accountability, if they’re subject to it at all. It’s agencies like the CIA, the NSA and the other intelligence agencies, that are essentially designed to disseminate disinformation and deceit and propaganda, and have a long history of doing not only that, but also have a long history of the world’s worst war crimes, atrocities and death squads. This is who not just people like Bill Kristol, but lots of Democrats are placing their faith in, are trying to empower, are cheering for as they exert power separate and apart from—in fact, in opposition to—the political officials to whom they’re supposed to be subordinate.
Secondly, the idea that Donald Trump is some kind of an agent or a spy of Russia, or that he is being blackmailed by Russia and is going to pass secret information to the Kremlin and endanger American agents on purpose, is an incredibly crazy claim that has been nowhere proven to be true. It reminds me of the kind of things Glenn Beck used to say about Obama while he stood at his chalkboard and drew those—those unstable charts that he drew, these wild conspiracy theories that are without evidence.
(Lol. Honestly, I was thinking about that when Nancy, earlier in this thread, said Flynn was "just the tip of the Trump iceberg" and going on about a conspiracy theory that went deeper than we may know!)
Now, I happen to think that the Trump presidency is extremely dangerous. You just listed off in your news—in your newscast that led the show, many reasons. They want to dismantle the environment. They want to eliminate the safety net. They want to empower billionaires. They want to enact bigoted policies against Muslims and immigrants and so many others. And it is important to resist them. And there are lots of really great ways to resist them, such as getting courts to restrain them, citizen activism and, most important of all, having the Democratic Party engage in self-critique to ask itself how it can be a more effective political force in the United States after it has collapsed on all levels. That isn’t what this resistance is now doing. What they’re doing instead is trying to take maybe the only faction worse than Donald Trump, which is the deep state, the CIA, with its histories of atrocities, and say they ought to almost engage in like a soft coup, where they take the elected president and prevent him from enacting his policies. And I think it is extremely dangerous to do that. Even if you’re somebody who believes that both the CIA and the deep state, on the one hand, and the Trump presidency, on the other, are extremely dangerous, as I do, there’s a huge difference between the two, which is that Trump was democratically elected and is subject to democratic controls, as these courts just demonstrated and as the media is showing, as citizens are proving. But on the other hand, the CIA was elected by nobody. They’re barely subject to democratic controls at all. And so, to urge that the CIA and the intelligence community empower itself to undermine the elected branches of government is insanity. That is a prescription for destroying democracy overnight in the name of saving it. And yet that’s what so many, not just neocons, but the neocons’ allies in the Democratic Party, are now urging and cheering. And it’s incredibly warped and dangerous to watch them do that.
Like I said in this thread earlier. Binary thinking will mislead you during this.
It's not just Us vs Them.
It's Us vs. Them and Them.
Mind your topknot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
"A friend of Harward's said
"A friend of Harward's said he was reluctant to take the job because the White House seems so chaotic. Harward called the offer a "s*** sandwich," the friend said."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/politics/harward-says-no-to-national-secur...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
I thought Trump was the giant
I thought Trump was the giant douche and Hillary was the shit sandwich.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
That's Turd sandwich
That's Turd sandwich
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<I thought Trump was the
<<<I thought Trump was the giant douche and Hillary was the shit sandwich.
I believe my words were "the difference between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with kale"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Coming from a die-hard
Coming from a die-hard Hillary supporter, Nancy, that's pretty frickin' funny. Touché. lol.
And 73, I'm thinking that a shit sandwich with kale is somehow worse than a shit sandwich unadorned.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I don't think it's binary
I don't think it's binary thinking to think that the guy holding that press conference is an incompetent boob. I don't think he's really doing much more with Russia other than possible business interests--but he has those conflicts everywhere and no one really cares any more. The issue with Flynn was really more about lying to Pence and saying stupid shit like "I don't remember" and making them all look bad. A grown person could probably weather this pretty well, maybe some nagging baggage like not divesting, financial conflicts, tax returns. But he's handling this like a crazeball and basically forcing it to be a much bigger story than it needs to be. Right now, Trump's biggest enemy isn't the neocons, it's Trump. I'm sure Bannon wants this showdown, but if Trump cooled out a bit, then he'd have a much better case for the deep state is out to get me.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
https://twitter.com/FoxNews
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/832396832974131200
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
>"the difference between a
>"the difference between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with kale"
I know it's a broken record at this point but you can't seem let go of some of the lies that you bought hook line and sinker about Hillary. Your take on the current admin is so slanted because you are still trying to justify that there would have been no difference between a Trump or a Clinton presidency. Let it go.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Again, you couldn't be more
Again, you couldn't be more off base, Jonas.
Waaaaaay off. No matter how many times you say it, you will still be incorrect.
I am in no way trying to justify there would have been no difference, because I don't believe that.
You are really bad at reading, I think. I think Donald is awful and I think Hillary would have been awful, but in a completely different way.
And as far as letting it go, I was addressing a quote someone else had just brought up , correcting my quote, if you are following along and not just nipping at my heels.
Lol. Talk about letting go something go. I tell you my thoughts on something, makimg it a clear as i can, and you continually say that's not what I'm thinking or feeling.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Following up on my thin
Following up on my thin evidence posted above.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
I'll get to you Ned.
I'll get to you, Ned.
I've addressed that evidence at least 5 times with you before and how troublesome it is. I really don't want to turn this into a 911 thread though. It's really a dead horse when it comes to you because you clearly dont even look at the other side.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I'm just trying to wrap my
I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the evidence presented is 'thin', yet all I recall you presenting is the size of a hole. A hole that was filled with plane debris and the bodies of the passengers.
What is this 'other side' you speak of? Obscure questions?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
But I am glad you are here
But I am glad you are here still, Jonas, maybe you could help out with some of the 9/11? People seem to have a lot of questions.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Ned, my refutation of that
Ned, my refutation of that questionable evidence had nothing to do with this picture, which, by the way, you still haven't pointed to where either the plane entered the building and got swallowed up or where the bulk of it is on the lawn.
Here is the Pentagon minutes after the strike.
Where is the plane or where did it enter the building and disappear?
https://youtu.be/WCqFL59pink
Jamie Mcintyre on scene minutes after the strike.
JAMIE MCINTYRE:
"From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed."
Of course, he changed his story once he had some time to think about it, claiming he actually did see all of that stuff.
but none of that is even why your evidence is questionable.
that's just sniff test stuff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I think my evidence outweighs
I think my evidence outweighs yours. By a mile.
Let alone what happened to the plane, passengers, etc, of which you offer no theory.
My theory (the one fed to my binary brain!) is based on facts, not some snippet of an observation made by one person. I can pull up eyewitnesses who saw the plane.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<I think my evidence outweighs yours. By a mile
::another sigh::
maybe you didn't read the very last thing I wrote.
"none of that is even why your evidence is questionable.
that's just sniff test stuff."
Point to the plane, Ned , and I'll tell you why your evidence is troublesome.....again.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
They found plane parts,
They found plane parts, including the flight recorders, as well as passenger bodies.
Are you claiming those findings are false?
What more evidence do you need?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<>I can pull up
<<<<I can pull up eyewitnesses who saw the plane.
I can discredit them and provide a multitude of people that saw a completely different path of the plane than what we are told happened and what your eyewitnesses will say.
Ned, we've done this before. It goes nowhere with you.
Point to the plane to convince me you at least believe what you are saying. You believe a 757 crashed. Show me where it went into the building or where it is on the lawn...in that photo. shouldn't be too hard to do, it was only minutes after the strike.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
actually, every person ive
actually, every person ive seen interviewed who saw the plane approaching the pentagon, including the two cops at the Citgo station, say the plane was in a totally different location that the official story, and one of them, who didnt run scared for his car, said he saw the plane fly away from the pentagon after the "fireball".
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Where the smoke is. And the
Where the smoke is. And the plane debris, and the bodies.
You're damn straight it goes nowhere with me, because it has no merit, let alone any credibility. This is before trying to evaluate your alternate theory of what happened to plane and passengers.
Again, are you claiming the plane debris and bodies found were not actually there? That the coroner's office was "in on it"?
This circles back to what I said yesterday, that there is no way to keep a lid on a conspiracy of this scope.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
nnnnnaaaayyysayer ned
nnnnnaaaayyysayer ned
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<Where the smoke is. And
<<<Where the smoke is. And the plane debris, and the bodies
Bwahahahahahaha!
I'm sorry my eyes aren't as good as yours, apparently.
I see the smoke. check.
Having a hard time with the plane debris and bodies in that picture. Maybe that all went into some big airplane sized hole I'm not seeing? Maybe it's right behind the two plumes of smoke? Help me out here.
Eagle Eye Ned!
and Hollis....exactly.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
You didn't answer my
You didn't answer my questions.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
You still haven't answered
You still haven't answered mine.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
>> Maybe that all went into
>> Maybe that all went into some big airplane sized hole I'm not seeing?
That is what the evidence suggests.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Look, I know answering these
Look, I know answering these questions makes you feel uncomfortable, and that's OK!
Maybe listen to your brain.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
lol, what in my history on
lol, what in my history on the black screen makes you think I feel uncomfortable answering questions?
Nice try, Ned, my friend.
I just really don't want to go through a remedial argument again. I've shown you at least 5 times where it's troublesome. What's to say if I do it again you are actually listening and this shit doesn't come up again.
Listen, I realize something about 911 is sticking with you and you are searching for something that will break through to you and finally convince you. I'm sorry I haven't been good enough to show you without doubt. I'm trying.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 2 Room Shack
ned, did you buy that saddam
ned, did you buy that saddam had weapons of mass destruction?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
HA! Nice projection, Guy.
HA! Nice projection, Guy.
I'm just a simple binary thinker weighing the evidence presented, and have made my own conclusion.
Feel free to answer those questions whenever you feel convenient.
Turtle: No. I smelled redemption for Daddy's unfinished biz from the get-go.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<just a simple binary
<<<just a simple binary thinker weighing the evidence presented, and have made my own conclusion
See, the thing is, if you really believed that, you'd leave all of this alone and not spend your valuable time trying to convince one crazy conspiracy theorist on a drug bamd message board that he's crazy.
Usually, when I see a crazy person, I steer clear and leave them alone (there's really no helping them, right?) unless I think they have something for me.
I'm trying to help you with this, Ned, but you need to be open to the amount of dots that start to describe a picture different than the one you were sold.
afternoon, Turts!
Hope you are staying high and dry.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
btw, Ned, we are coming your
btw, Ned, we are coming your way in August with the vintage rv to Oregon for the Eclipse and may need to camp in your driveway for a night. No dogs, just two fucking awesome kids and an amazing wife. What do you say!?
I'm totally safe in 3d.
People think you're crazy if you talk about this stuff out loud!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
Here's my unsolicited two
Here's my unsolicited two cents worth on 9/11. Ned and 73, you both seem like reasonable people to me, except where this issue is concerned. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll say that I'm more inclined to agree with Ned, but what I find kind of morbidly fascinating is that you both can't seem to let go of this thing and I wonder why that is.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
I see it this way, Mike.
I see it this way, Mike.
We all thought there was a monster under the bed as kids.
I looked and found no monster. HL likes the idea of the monster, and never looked.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
I wonder where the trillions
I wonder where the trillions Rumsfeld lost went.
And why 911 was followed by Richard Reid.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: always
I love the Reid story.
I love the Reid story.
more stretches and late blooming connections.
dope.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
HL, I can follow along
HL, I can follow along perfectly well. Thanks. Until I get a sense that you have let go of the Hillary hate and see what is actually going on, I guess i'll 'nip at your heels'.
>But I am glad you are here still, Jonas, maybe you could help out with some of the 9/11?
Of course. There is physical evidence and accounts that completely contradict the official 9/11 story. I guess I'm one of those dumb asses that still hold onto 'I don't know what exactly happened but I sure as shit know that the official story is not even close'.
As far as the current topic is concerned; awful still ='s awful. Let's put into DBMB terms... Hillary = selling weed, maybe some mushrooms, never even dabbled in LSD. Trump = selling meth, crank, crack, bath salts & bags of heroin.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Has Hillary done anything
Has Hillary done anything since the loss that suggests she has
Knowledge that will help the country counter the Trump mess?
Does she need $250,000 to speak about it?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
Holy shit. Yall been workin
Holy shit. Yall been workin in here.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Speak about what? At this
Speak about what? At this time Hillary is out of picture. The country has already made it clear that they do not want her opinion or leadership.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: charmskooldropout
Jerry would love Trump
Jerry would love Trump
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: New & Improved
Jerry loved all sorts of
Jerry loved all sorts of things that were bad for him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: jonaspond
Jorts?
Jorts?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>> At this time Hillary is
>>> At this time Hillary is out of picture. The country has already made it clear that they do not want her opinion or leadership.
You brought her up in your last few posts.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<We all thought there was a
<<<We all thought there was a monster under the bed as kids.
I looked and found no monster. HL likes the idea of the monster, and never looked.
OMG. I think you actually typed that with a straight face!
Dude, you( and quite a few others, apparently) just learned about, or at least only just accepted, what the Deep State was yesterday....on this thread....or maybe because Jake Tapper is talking about now, I don't know.
No one reading this believes you've plumbed the depths of anything.
The monster has a hold of your feet and you continue to tell yourself its just a snag on the blankie because mommy said there's no such thing as monsters.
Go back to sleep little guy, it'll be ok.
<<<As far as the current topic is concerned; awful still ='s awful. Let's put into DBMB terms... Hillary = selling weed, maybe some mushrooms, never even dabbled in LSD. Trump = selling meth, crank, crack, bath salts & bags of heroin.
Agreed. Awful is awful, but I have my own metaphor I think will help you. more on that later....
As far as the DBMB terms....I think you will be surprised to find out exactly what your dealer was selling behind your back and I think it may come to light... but Im not holding my breath. ( I see the eye rolls, and no, Im not talking about Pedogate).
I'm sorry I haven't been able to give this thread my proper attention.
Was wrapping up my biannual week of volunteering for Habitat with my seven guys and have been trying to get out of town to go skiing in WVA this weekend.
(How's that for a classic PZ move? Only mention it because its true though.)
btw, Is that a no on the camping this summer, Ned?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Jonas, Im going to tryy as
Jonas, Im going to try as best as I can to let you see my thinking on this. Please tell me where you think Im off.
A Chinese farmer gets a horse, which soon runs away. A neighbor says, "That's bad news." The farmer replies, "Good news, bad news, who can say?"
The horse comes back and brings another horse with him. Good news, you might say.
The farmer gives the second horse to his son, who rides it, then is thrown and badly breaks his leg.
"So sorry for your bad news," says the concerned neighbor. "Good news, bad news, who can say?" the farmer replies.
In a week or so, the emperor's men come and take every able-bodied young man to fight in a war. The farmer's son is spared.
Good news, of course.
I find Trump detestable and I could cite every reason Greenwald gives above in the Amy Goodman piece...but I wont.
Our country has a cancer and everyone feels it.
Donald Trump is the dumb blunt instrument of Chemotherapy. Detestable as a cure and very likely may kill us all, but his fumbling and ineptitude is exposing exactly the discussions we need to be having. I think Hillary would have convinced us there was no cancer and let it metasticize unknown for 8 years while we all coasted behind her. (Look at Nancy for example, she'd normally be crying about hoodies at TXR, instead, she's Johnnyonthespot with the political threads these days. Go Nanc!)
Trump has awoken our democracy and it is working.
The calls to our representatives are working.
The protests are working.
The courts are working.
The democratic process is working. Trump is finding he isnt above the law.
(And that's exactly why I was protesting to answer your earlier sort of condescending question as to if I knew why I was protesting)
Im just incredibly leary of running to the hems of the Deep State or Intelligence Community's petticoat for protection right now because they happen to see things our way.
What happens when they don't and destroy other good people for political reasons?
I think we are in dangerous waters and I believe that the folks that elected Trump ( the ones with all the guns ) democratically sense a soft coup happening, I think it could go sideways really fast.
I just want people to think about what we are empowering the IC to do now and in the future.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
RT thinks 911 was an inside
RT thinks 911 was an inside job. Shocking.
http://yournewswire.com/rt-claims-911-was-an-inside-job/
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL172C9CC073815D38
http://csglobe.com/russia-reveals-911-satellite-imagery-evidence-indicat...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<RT thinks 911 was an
<<<RT thinks 911 was an inside job. Shocking
I know you think that's an indictment, but you may be surprised to find out that that's really the prevailing thought in the rest of the world, too. The US is really the only place where you find such a huge number of official story ::believers:: You can see it in the course of these threads over time. It's only going in one direction.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I'm sure that the people
I'm sure that the people being deported, and their children, are happy to be a part of Bannon's Cure.
This reminds me of Mao. While the revolution had many merits, when it sucked (like his crappy agricultural projects plans) people and people said so, they were labeled Imperialist. In this new world, if you are critical of Trump, you are therefore supporting the Deep State. Comrade Bannon thanks you for your support.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
oh, Mannfred, I should have
oh, Mannfred, I should have added that I was also tied up on Coinbase earlier pulling out some more Bitcoin profits to offset our volunteering this week. Really glad I didn't listen to you when they were cheap. Ready to buy more on the next dip...playing with house money at this point. :-)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<Im sure that the people
<<<Im sure that the people being deported, and their children, are happy to be a part of Bannon's Cure.
Like I said, I'm not happy, but I'm working with the situation, and I see lot of hope. Sorry, if I looked at it any other way, it would be too crushing. I, too, see the shitshow and pain and am not trying to brush past it, Alias.
We are really on the same side here.
I hope you can see that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<In this new world, if you
<<<In this new world, if you are critical of Trump, you are therefore supporting the Deep State.
I don't see it that way at all and I hope that's not what I'm telegraphing here. I think the people are pushing back and he realizes he has to deal with us. Give him the rope to hang himself and we will see to it happening. Hes just dumb enough to be playing checkers in a 3d chess match. , thinking his king Trumps all. We got this. Can we leave creepy uncle Deep State out of this one?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I think you have this idea
I think you have this idea that people are worried about what side you are on. i'm ust responding to comments on a message board in the context of a larger world. "Support Trump's Cure Or be Branded a Pawn Of the NeoCon Deep State" seems to be the common memo that went out within the last few days within certain circles. Bannon is on his game.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
Aha, cool.
Aha, cool.
Personally, I didn't get that memo.
I see your point about Bannon's talking point, though.
They do seem to be pushing that one.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
This ^
Indeed, Alias.
and so easy Identify the rubes who parrot that nonsense.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
You know someone is losing
You know someone is losing
badlybigly when it gets ad hominem.>>> that that's really the prevailing thought in the rest of the world, too. The US is really the only place where you find such a huge number of official story ::believers::
Any credible evidence to support this claim?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> In this new world, if
>> In this new world, if you are critical of Trump, you are therefore supporting the Deep State.
In this new world, if you support trump, you're a pawn of the Russians.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: smiley
<<<and so easy Identify the
<<<and so easy Identify the rubes who parrot that nonsense
right....that pulitzer prize winning Greenwald rube is waaaaaay offbase on this too.
I don't think everyone with Deep State concerns supports Trump's cure in the least, btw. Me being at the top of the list.
Ender has a point.
and sorry mannfred, that was petty, but I was really playing more to the old PZ saw of claiming a rich fulfilling life as I was "losing" . Its a time honored tradition. it was really more tongue in cheek than anything. but I do apologize.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Yes, good point Ender.
>In this new world, if you support trump, you're a pawn of the Russians.
Yes, good point Ender. Although one could argue that it's more of pawn of the Trump propaganda.
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-putin-bromance-making-americans-pro-russi...
>..American policies toward Russia reflect a multitude of disagreements at the international and domestic levels. Russian foreign policy has often run in opposition to that of the United States, such as Russia’s support for the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria and its military escalations in Eastern Europe.
Similarly, Russia’s disappearing democratic institutions diverge from the American government’s long-standing (though often poorly executed) commitment to liberal democratic values. The American government has rightly been critical of Putin’s dangerous consolidation of power, takeover of national media, violent suppression of political opposition, among other domestic policies and practices.
Given these diverging policies and commitments to authoritarian rather than liberal government, the Putin regime and the American government have little reason to hold mutual good will. And that is reflected in public views on both sides of the world.
An August 2015 report by the Pew Research Center reported that Americans held overwhelmingly negative views of Russia. A large majority—67 percent—were unfavorable and only 22 percent were favorable toward the nation. (As context, only a handful of – mostly Eastern European nations – held less positive views of Russia.)
Americans’ attitudes toward Vladimir Putin were similarly (75 percent) unfavorable.
Pew data also suggests that the feeling is mutual: Only 15 percent of Russians hold favorable views of the United States.
Americans’ attitudes can be stated even more categorically: since Gallup started asking the question in 1999, no more than one-quarter of Americans have ever considered Russia to be an American ally. In 2014, 24 percent characterized Russia as an “enemy” and a further 44 percent described the country as “unfriendly” (the highest ratings ever in the Gallup series).
Despite these long-standing and perhaps increasing animosities, the second half of 2016 and the election of Donald Trump has brought a fascinating shift in public views. A YouGov poll from December showed that while Americans as a whole continue to hold unfavorable views of Russia and Putin, supporters of President-elect Donald Trump diverge from the national trend.
They remain, on balance, negative but 35 percent hold favorable views toward Putin and 28 percent consider Russia to be an ally. Politico provided a good discussion of why views might be changing.
Changing Relations With Russia and the Potential Consequences
While Democratic and Republican leaders have long held critical views of Russia, the past few months have seen a dramatic polarization of viewpoints. Democrats have held steadfast in their concerns about Russia, while Republicans have divided with traditional hawks—like Sensators. John McCain and Lindsey Graham—criticizing the president-elect for his pro-Russian views but numerous others taking well to this radical change of position.
If Republicans eventually rally around the president’s view, we should expect Republican voters to follow the leader. This would create a domestic cleavage surrounding U.S.-Russian relationships for what may be the first time in American history and serve as a dramatic reversal of the Republican Party’s foreign policy platform...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
>>>>if you support trump, you
>>>>if you support trump, you're a pawn of the Russians.
Nah, just a sucker unless you pretty rich. Then you're probably just greedy for supporting him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
i dunno, I think some of the
i dunno, most if not all of the greedy mother fuckers who support Trump are also suckers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
My quick research shows US
My quick research shows US opinion consistent with the rest of the world.
Looks like about 15% of the rest of the world thinks it was an inside job (as of 2008).
The roughly contemporaneous (2007) Rasmussen poll showed 22% of Americans had that opinion.
e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sept11-qaeda-poll-idUSN1035876620080910
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/b...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
A little of column a, a
>>>>i dunno, most if not all of the greedy mother fuckers who support Trump are also suckers.
A little of column a, a little of column b.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
>> it was really more tongue
>> it was really more tongue in cheek than anything. but I do apologize.
All cool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
And some of both.
And some of both.
Yeah, I'm looking at you, Thom..Fafa....Seadog.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Why does it always have to be
Why does it always have to be a full inside job?
Couldnt it just be an opportunity that came along with
invisible angels making sure it happened?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
>>>>if you support trump, you
>>>>if you support trump, you're a pawn of the Russians.
Nah, just racist.
:)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
..
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
One Asian, One Hispanic for
One Asian, One Hispanic for Trump. Where the token black?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Taco trucks on every corner!
Taco trucks on every corner!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Are there any token Muslims
Are there any token Muslims for Trump?
Not a Muslim ban, Trump is least racist and anti-Semitic person he knows!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: good at drinking water
(No subject)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Oh look, he allowed one woman
Oh look, he allowed one woman in the room of white men; clearly he's not sexist!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
..
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
The Derp State?
The Derp State?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
(No subject)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nevermind
The world would be a much
The world would be a much different place now if Fonzie had never jumped that shark.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
I blame Chaichi
I blame Chachi
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
I blame Chaichi
...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lucky Day
Netenyahu is pretty racist
Netenyahu is pretty racist himself
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: That’s Nancy with the laughin’ face
Yes, he's despicable much
Yes, he's despicable much like Trump. only smarter.