Four dead in Annapolis shooting

Oh crap! So sad.

Too many guns down there & its too close to DC.

This doesn't happen in Delaware 33 miles away.

ban newspapers!

The NRA and its supporters have already responded to those who want tougher gun legislation...

President Trump has been briefed on the shooting, said White House deputy press secretary Lindsay Walters.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with all that are affected," Walters said.

This shit is happening because of people like this!

June 27th, 2018

Milo wants vigilantes to start killing journalists, and he's not being 'ironic';

Apparently, Milo Yiannopoulos didn’t get the memo about the need for civility in our discourse.

“I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight,” the far-right provocateur texted a reporter for the New York Observer this week. When the reporter inquired further, Yiannopoulos explained that he had simply issued his “standard response to a request for a comment.”

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/27/milo-wants-vigilantes-sta...

Horrible.

Prayers to those involved.

Y’all-Qaeda again? 

No, gotta be the MS-!3 

white guy with a ponytail & damaged fingertips?

>"Our thoughts...

"... and prayers are with all that are affected," 

Orange County Lumber Truck,

Maryland already has some of the most restrictive gun laws on the books. Annapolis has even more restrictive laws. Gun control didn't stop this one and it's not the NRA's fault.

>>Maryland already has some of the most restrictive gun laws on the books<<

Compared to other places in the US maybe, but that proves nothing...especially doesn't prove it’s not the NRA’s fault that this country has a huge gun violence problem.   

How about comparing US gun laws and gun violence to other countries?  It becomes clear that there is a very strong correlation between intelligent gun regulation and gun violence.  Contrary to NRA propaganda you don’t have to step on or restrict the second amendment to have intelligent gun laws.

All the "intelligent" and "common sense" laws are already on the books in Maryland.

Specifically, which new, constitutionally valid law do you think would have stopped this guy from buying a shotgun and killing people?

>Maryland already has some of the most restrictive gun laws on the books. Annapolis has even more restrictive laws.<

Ender, as you can see, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia  ( states not known for tough gun laws) are all close to Maryland. Very easy for folks from Maryland to drive to one of those states to purchase firearms.

>Gun control didn't stop this one and it's not the NRA's fault<

You make this point frequently.  Instead of shrugging my shoulders and believing that there is nothing that could have been done to stop it, i believe that this highlights the need for tougher gun laws.

Problem is that the NRA have opposed virtually all gun control legislation,  and they have helped create a political environment where all Republican politicians and judicial nominees must pass the 2nd amendment litmus test. (That's why i blame the NRA and  its members )

>>  Very easy for folks from Maryland to drive to one of those states to purchase firearms.

Is that what happened in this case?

As far as I can tell this guy was legally able to buy guns in Maryland and no new constitutionally valid law would have prevented this tragedy as argued in this thread. 

>As far as I can tell this guy was legally able to buy guns in Maryland and no new constitutionally valid law would have prevented this tragedy as argued in this thread<

You make this point frequently.  Instead of shrugging my shoulders and believing that there is nothing that could have been done to stop it, i believe that this highlights the need for tougher gun laws.

But...

Problem is that the NRA have opposed virtually all gun control legislation,  and they have helped create a political environment where all Republican politicians and judicial nominees must pass the 2nd amendment litmus test. (That's why i blame the NRA and  its members )

This has led to both politicians and judges view virtually all gun restrictions  as unconstitutional. 

Can cities ban gun stores? 

>> Problem is that the NRA have opposed virtually all gun control legislation, 

Yeah, and the NRA obviously lost that battle in Maryland and the shooting still happened. Worse yet, the laws prevented anyone from adequately defending themselves. 

Ender, you kept citing one example to try to prove a generality, that’s not how it works.  That’s like trying to argue that exercise does not make people healthier because there are examples of people that exercise and still had a heart attack.

The question is not which specific law would have prevented this Annapolis shooting, it is what common sense gun laws should be in place in the US to reduce gun violence.  Look at the research, compare to other countries laws, and figure it out.  

>Yeah, and the NRA obviously lost that battle in Maryland and the shooting still happened. Worse yet, the laws prevented anyone from adequately defending themselves<

The shooting happened, and they will continue to happen,  because of the easy accessibility of firearms and the sheer number of firearms in circulation.  (The NRA has  exacerbated both issues)

Again you say the laws didn't work.  I say we need tougher laws, but the NRA is the major reason we can't have tougher gun laws ( see 2nd amendment litmus test)

double...

>> Ender, you kept citing one example to try to prove a generality, that’s not how it works. 

This thread was about one case. I argued the specifics of that. Maryland is a good example of how gun control doesn't work. Very restrictive laws and still average gun violence levels. The losers in that situation are law abiding citizens who want to practice their 2nd amendment rights. 

(MD's gun laws are so fucked it literally kept me from moving there.)

If you want to debate federal laws, I'd be glad to.

>> Again you say the laws didn't work.  I say we need tougher laws,

I bet I can list a dozen laws the guy broke that day. You think the 13th would give him pause?

Ender you seem believe that all the guns in Maryland were purchased in Maryland.  Maryland's tough gun laws are undermined by states with less restrictive laws. (Pa., Va., W.Va.)

>You think the 13th would give him pause?

No, I'm saying that the easy access to and the proliferation of firearms is the problem.  And the NRA is a big reason for both. If we had tougher gun laws maybe less folks like the shooter would have access to these killing tools. But the NRA's efforts have helped stop such laws.

>> Maryland's tough gun laws are undermined by states with less restrictive laws. (Pa., Va., W.Va.)

Nope, out of state unregulated long gun sales to MD citizens must follow MD law (and the state they are purchased in). You can't buy pistols out of state without an FFL shipping to another FFL in MD.

>> And the NRA is a big reason for both. If we had tougher gun laws maybe less folks... would have access to these killing tools.

That's the crux of the mater. You want to disarm and criminalize gun owners.

>Nope, out of state unregulated long gun sales to MD citizens must follow MD law<

Maryland does not regulate the sale of rifles or shotguns and no permit is required to purchase a rifle or shotgun that is not an "assault weapon.".   

No permit, no problem

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/maryland/

> You can't buy pistols out of state without an FFL shipping to another FFL in MD.<

Legally purchased firearms are often resold illegally. 

>That's the crux of the mater. You want to disarm and criminalize gun owners.

No, I want firearms to be "well regulated." 

You seem to prefer a "wild west" approach.

>> Legally purchased firearms are often resold illegally. 

We should make it doubly illegal?

>We should make it doubly illegal?

Yes, penalties for buyer and seller should definitely be increased.  

Should be tighter restrictions on who can purchase firearms in the first place and we should have a national gun registry. 

I have an idea, lets start with disarming the thugs in the inner cities, primarily Chicago.

Level the playing field, then we can talk about restricting law abiding Americans constitutional rights.

https://heyjackass.com/

^As ender routinely points out, the guns used in most of these shootings were purchased legally.  So we obviously need to reexamine who is permitted to purchase firearms. 

I am all for increasing the penalties for firearms possessed illegally. 

As i am all for a federal firearm registry 

.

>>  Look at the research, compare to other countries laws, and figure it out.  

OK, I figured it out. Other countries did it by disarming their citizens.

Ender, are you a member of the NRA?

>I have an idea, lets start with disarming the thugs in the inner cities, primarily Chicago.

There you have it. the NRA wants to arm white Supremacists - and prevent people of color from owning guns. So much for your defense of Second amendment rights - you only want to defend The KKK and whitey’s rights. Classic NRA cultist.

White Supremacists are terrorists shooting up schools, night clubs, churches, and the workplace but you want to vilify ‘thugs’ 

and yeah, I’m more than happy to restrict gun ownership for ‘thugs’ of all colors 

Add up all the mass shootings etc, thats just another week in Chicago.

Give me a break, you bleeding heart.

>> Ender, are you a member of the NRA?

I was never a fan of the NRA because they are so crass/rude.

But yes, I joined for the first time a few months ago after the president gave a press conference declaring, "Take the guns first, go through due process second.”

>> the NRA wants to arm white Supremacists - and prevent people of color from owning guns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXtpUE1b2NY

Ender, you know he was lying. Not about due process - he's never been a fan, but about taking guns away.Trump and the NRA are so far up each others' asses that you'd need LIDAR to tell who was who. So, by joining the NRA you're just playing into Trump's hands. Own it.

"In real life not everybody gets a trophy".

Thanks for that link , ender.

Surfdead,

>> Trump and the NRA are so far up each others' asses

The NRA backed Bernie in his state race. They aren't married to a party. The Democrats just abandoned gun rights as an issue, so the NRA has no use for them.

There's a lot of reasons to not join the NRA.  They aren't perfect. I don't have to agree with 100% of what they do to join (that was what I was hung up on for a long time). They want to sell guns, I want people to be able to own then - so there is a strong intersection between what we want.

The bottom line is Congresspeople listen to them because they have 5 million members. A theoretical, "perfect to me" gun rights organization that had 1/10 the members, probably wouldn't even get a meeting with a senator. So, I'll use my "citizen united $=free speech" power and buy all the NRA memberships for my family I can.

So, I'll use my "citizen united $=free speech" power and buy all the NRA memberships for my family I can.>>>

Duuude, really?

>> Thanks for that link , ender.

No problem, I'm a fan of Killer Mike. He did take back some of his negative comments about the March for Our Lives after that but the racial stuff refuting what Nancy said stands.

>> Duuude, really?

Yeah, that's reality. Get your checkbook out if you want to get shit done.

Horrible  Monster ___ Pump shotgun -- CRUSHED by this   another Coward - Dude IS Never Getting Out of Prison EVER !

>Give me a break, you bleeding heart.

No break for fucking racists. 

>They want to sell guns, I want people to be able to own then - so there is a strong intersection between what we want.<

I guess some people want to provide folks with the tools to help them improve their lives, while others want to provide folks the tools to end a life.