interesting. like any dissemination of knowledge, this could have both positive and negative implications
however if set and setting (i.e., the intention and spiritual consciousness of the chemist) can truly influence production quality, unfortunately there might be more bunk product around from fast buck Freddys who start experimenting now that they have this knowledge available
>>>> (the intention and spiritual consciousness of the chemist)....
Those two subjects are both "set" , neither are setting. And since it's a lab product, there's only one lsd-25, so any other molecular configuration would not be lsd-25. Yes, this could lead to cheats, yet how is this any different than any other time? People haven't cheated before this video came out? Plenty of ripoff artists on the lot who would sell blank tabs, at best.
Like any lab product, the inability to see the molecules( it's not weed), the end user will always be taking a chance that someone is being dishonest. How has any of this changed? "Buyer beware" will always stand, especially now that fentanyl is so prevalent. If you read the article, it did mention that final product could be sent off for legit hplc analysis, so at least that option is available.
Agreed. I'm just surmising about the unmeasurable, immaterial aspects - if they exist at all. Does acid from a spiritually enlightened chemist who believes it's a sacrament differ from that of a cartel chemist with only profit motives? Are there quantum conscious entanglement effects? I don't know. Joe you are much more experienced with this stuff than I but thanks for sharing that publication. Good reading on a snowy day.
I don't know about more experienced, Alan...lol, but yes, I think it's safe to say that Nick Sands' intentions were worlds apart from a cartel chemist's intentions. I would say it matters. I know that in an ayahuasca ceremony, intentions of Love and Forgiveness are everything. Good intentions, in general, are important. Especially in the next four years.
Hasn't the process for manufacturing acid been known for some time? I thought Owsley learned how to make it by researching at the university library in Berkeley with the help of Meilssa Cargill, who was a grad student in chemistry. Maybe this information was freely available then because LSD was still legal at the time?
Process aside, my understanding is that acquiring the precursors needed to make acid is the real barrier to manufacturing it, and especially on an industrial scale.
Joe -- ahhh yeah I think you are ... I can't remember the last time when I tripped balls for 8 days in the woods dodging gila monsters and shitting in an empty pit-viper nest with a bunch of half naked stone age wizards --- well -- there was that one Hornings Hideout run....
I had normal high school and concert LSD psychedelic adventures -- until Spring 1985 when I just moved to the Bay area and sourced two vials of crystalline white power from my friend's sketchy boyfriend. Both were labeled "Chemical Reagent - Not For Human Consumption - Laboratory Use Only. One was MDMA (which I had heard of and maybe sampled) and one was called 2CB. Well, lucky me, I had stumbled on a friend of a friend of Alexander Shulgin. These two bottles came with instructions authored by "a friendly stranger." Education was mandated. Literally. I had to agree to read up on the stuff.
I tried the MDMA first, on a Greyhound Bus between Santa Cruz and SF ( didn't own a car out West yet) and holy shit - I still remember the feeling of love for every vagrant on that bus. And the 7 grams (560 hits) of 2CB in that first batch sure spurred some Johnny Appleseed adventures. Both substances were legal at this point in time until Fall of that year, as I recall. Which was fortunate because I was headed back East on Summer Tour from the Greeks thru Merriweather (and Pittsburg) with little money, but with a tour book full of tickets. And those two vials. But that's another story.
This was the time in the Bay area (mid 80s) that post-60s psychedelic culture was blooming. Sure there were mushrooms being cultivated in fancy rental properties in Santa Cruz. Sure there was acid from Family kids in Mendicino. (Jack Herer's "The Emperor Wears No Clothes". was just published in 1985 and really good bud from Humbolt was starting to become available in the City.) But these "new" magic powders were a kick in the ass. It was pre rave - pre hula hoop -- and not many people had tried either of these drugs, certainly not with the purity I had miraculously acquired. Fresh from the lab. Whose, I didn't know at the time.
There was a magazine (print of course) called High Frontiers published by RU Serious in circulation. it became Mondo 2000. Burning Man like antics were percolating among the Cacopheny Society but the mass gatherings hadn't happened yet. Personal computers were new. There was no Web, a few message boards just starting --- one was called the Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, otherwise known as The WELL. Early virtual reality was a thing and Jaron Lanier was spreading his gospel. People were playing with fire and molten metals in Berkeley. My crowd was making holograms and shooting lasers around (which were big and costly back then). And the different scenes were meshing -- tech and hippy. Quite a time.
I eventually met up with some elders in Shulgin's "substance testing" scene (detailed in his first book) who apparently trusted me enough to acquire some more. By elders I mean they were in their 60s and 70s, which was ancient to me -- I was in my late 20s. They were good karma folks who wanted to raise some consciousness - it was beyond a recreational endeavor for them. I respected their wishes but definitely enhanced some Jerry shows (he was playing regularly back then).
Long story short -- I kinda gave up on the 16 hour intense LSD trips in favor of an evening of 2CB at the Warfield of Fillmore or where-ever, followed by a meal and a good night's sleep. I didn't need to dissolve my ego and circle the universe --- I was and am still content to just stick it in my back pocket and glow for an evening. I'll leave the deep dive psychonaut-ing to you and others.
I always described it as a trapezoid drug. If mushroom trips were like a wave. And LSD trips were like a triangle with a peak. 2CB would get you to a mid level for 4-6 hrs and taper off. Like a trapezoid.
Perfect for concerts. And sex. You could converse if you wanted to and even walk around a museum without attracting attention. Or you could connect with your inner shaman. But then eat a plate of Korean food without having it squiggle around on your plate.
it didn't take the physical or karmic energy out of you the next day like latter-day X and it didn't make you grind your teeth. Just a gentle psychedelic.
Then the rave cartels got a hold of it and ruined it....
>>Process aside, my understanding is that acquiring the precursors needed to make acid is the real barrier to manufacturing it, and especially on an industrial scale.
Yes, mike. before october of '66, not only could you get lsd straight from Sandoz (best case scenario EVER), chemists could get pure lysergic acid, the perfect precursor, relatively easily. As the war on drugs progressed and government agencies developed their focus on the "problem", those easy precursors became harder and harder to obtain without notice from chemical suppliers, so good chemists started to "construct" the precursors from other compounds so as not to raise any red flags and get caught. That is the current state of affairs. Various chemical synthesis "routes" have been available for decades, but Willy Myco's approach is a first bc he not only shows and describes the chemical process, he also gives in detail all of the necessary glassware needed to perform the procedures. It's an all-in-one approach with a human voice. Before this, you needed decent advanced knowledge of chemistry and synthesis in order to decipher the necessary glassware for each step of the procedure. All of those who dedicate their life to this work have the utmost of my respect, considering the federal consequences of getting caught.
>>>>Alan, thanks for the breakdown. Great story, thank you! I remember RU Serious and Mondo 2000. And i read PHIKAL from start to finish. Loved it, and truly admired Ann and Alexander for their pioneering spirit. They were heroes of mine, and remain so. I have always been "Leary" of synthetics bc of not having reliable sources, and i wasn't very wise with lsd use either. My first trip was my first full day of sophmore HS. I traded 2g of Lebanese blonde hash for two tabs of white blotter from my cousin, and it hit me hard in 5th hr chemistry class ( looking back, the synchronicity was meant to be) and i was lucky to hold my sanity together to finish the day without incident. My love has always been the naturals, though. So,not a lot of expereince with the lab products.
Finding Ayahuasca came after a year and a half and 14 - 5-meo ceremonies with toad toxin. Those ceremonies were the very first time i became educated in "set and setting", and those ceremonies finally changed my heart and mind for good. But the toad experience left me longing for a path forward. While 5-meo is extremely powerful, it is a repetitive experience, more like a hamster wheel. I still enjoy the occasional low dose at home, but no more 6 packs of dynamite for me.
When i first approached Aya, i knew i still needed to release a tremendous amount of life baggage, and i literally placed my well being and all my hopes into my teacher and those first three ceremonies. To the quick of it, i was a changed person, and have chosen to dedicate my remaining years to eventually bringing this medicine to as many as feel called to it. ( I found my teacher 2 days after he posted for the first time on Safeceremonies.com. We both laugh about that "coincidence").
There are only 2 ways to be an apprentice with the Shipibo tribe. The first way is to be born into the tribe. I'm half Irish, so there's that, but when we went to Pucallpa, Peru ( the area that is considerd the home of the Shipibo) this past August, we had 12 high dose ceremonies in 14 days with a 7th gen. Shipibo maestro ( my teacher's teacher). During 3 of those ceremonies, the daughter of the lead maestro sat in with us, took the medicine and saw me in visions in each ceremony serving medicine. That is the only other way...called "when the plants choose you", and i"m still reeling from even being considered for this position. My teacher "was chosen by the plants" from this same family and has been at this for 7 years. It was, and has been, an incredibly humbling experience, and not one that I can turn away from.
First I'll buy some beads
And then perhaps a leather band
To go around my head
Some feathers and bells
And a book of Indian lore
I will ask the Chamber Of Commerce
How to get to Haight Street
And smoke an awful lot of dope
I will wander around barefoot
I will have a psychedelic gleam in my eye at all times
I will love everyone
I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me on the street
I will sleep
I will, I will go to a house
That's, that's what I will do
I will go to a house
Where there's a rock & roll band
'Cause the groups all live together
And I will join a rock & roll band
I will be their road manager
And I will stay there with them
And I will get the crabs
But I won't care
Because
-----
Just having some fun with y'all.
Thanks for your intent and efforts to heighten consciousness.
I moved to SF in 91 and started my transition from the Dead scene into the early SF rave scene. I always thought one of the bright lines that separated the two scenes was Shulgin. He was very involved with Dance Safe and the rave scene was awash in all the different research drugs that he was responsible for. From my experience dead heads kind of stopped at LSD and never explored all the 2C's and Foxy.
I remember one person who came to his first rave and then immersed himself in the scene only to find out that the old guy in his chamber music quartet was Shulgin. Kind of funny that he had no idea who he was hanging with. That was all coincidentally happening during the great LSD drought after the guy in the Silo got busted. 2C's for me are like eye candy - similar visuals to LSD without any of the spiritual interconnections you get with LSD and also 8 hours as opposed to 14 hours.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alan R StoneSculptor
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 07:39 am
interesting. like any
interesting. like any dissemination of knowledge, this could have both positive and negative implications
however if set and setting (i.e., the intention and spiritual consciousness of the chemist) can truly influence production quality, unfortunately there might be more bunk product around from fast buck Freddys who start experimenting now that they have this knowledge available
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ... Voodoo Chile
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 07:46 am
^^^ Then I suggest the "5 - 6
^^^ Then I suggest the "5 - 6" in control should flood the market with high quality product and eliminate any financial incentive for bunk producers.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: dimethyllovebeam joe
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 09:04 am
>>>> (the intention and
>>>> (the intention and spiritual consciousness of the chemist)....
Those two subjects are both "set" , neither are setting. And since it's a lab product, there's only one lsd-25, so any other molecular configuration would not be lsd-25. Yes, this could lead to cheats, yet how is this any different than any other time? People haven't cheated before this video came out? Plenty of ripoff artists on the lot who would sell blank tabs, at best.
Like any lab product, the inability to see the molecules( it's not weed), the end user will always be taking a chance that someone is being dishonest. How has any of this changed? "Buyer beware" will always stand, especially now that fentanyl is so prevalent. If you read the article, it did mention that final product could be sent off for legit hplc analysis, so at least that option is available.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alan R StoneSculptor
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 12:52 pm
Agreed. I'm just surmising
Agreed. I'm just surmising about the unmeasurable, immaterial aspects - if they exist at all. Does acid from a spiritually enlightened chemist who believes it's a sacrament differ from that of a cartel chemist with only profit motives? Are there quantum conscious entanglement effects? I don't know. Joe you are much more experienced with this stuff than I but thanks for sharing that publication. Good reading on a snowy day.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: dimethyllovebeam joe
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 01:06 pm
I don't know about more
I don't know about more experienced, Alan...lol, but yes, I think it's safe to say that Nick Sands' intentions were worlds apart from a cartel chemist's intentions. I would say it matters. I know that in an ayahuasca ceremony, intentions of Love and Forgiveness are everything. Good intentions, in general, are important. Especially in the next four years.
Happy Football Saturday, brother.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness mikeedwardsetc
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 01:19 pm
Hasn't the process for
Hasn't the process for manufacturing acid been known for some time? I thought Owsley learned how to make it by researching at the university library in Berkeley with the help of Meilssa Cargill, who was a grad student in chemistry. Maybe this information was freely available then because LSD was still legal at the time?
Process aside, my understanding is that acquiring the precursors needed to make acid is the real barrier to manufacturing it, and especially on an industrial scale.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alan R StoneSculptor
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 11:22 pm
>I don't know about more
>I don't know about more experienced, Alan<
Joe -- ahhh yeah I think you are ... I can't remember the last time when I tripped balls for 8 days in the woods dodging gila monsters and shitting in an empty pit-viper nest with a bunch of half naked stone age wizards --- well -- there was that one Hornings Hideout run....
I had normal high school and concert LSD psychedelic adventures -- until Spring 1985 when I just moved to the Bay area and sourced two vials of crystalline white power from my friend's sketchy boyfriend. Both were labeled "Chemical Reagent - Not For Human Consumption - Laboratory Use Only. One was MDMA (which I had heard of and maybe sampled) and one was called 2CB. Well, lucky me, I had stumbled on a friend of a friend of Alexander Shulgin. These two bottles came with instructions authored by "a friendly stranger." Education was mandated. Literally. I had to agree to read up on the stuff.
I tried the MDMA first, on a Greyhound Bus between Santa Cruz and SF ( didn't own a car out West yet) and holy shit - I still remember the feeling of love for every vagrant on that bus. And the 7 grams (560 hits) of 2CB in that first batch sure spurred some Johnny Appleseed adventures. Both substances were legal at this point in time until Fall of that year, as I recall. Which was fortunate because I was headed back East on Summer Tour from the Greeks thru Merriweather (and Pittsburg) with little money, but with a tour book full of tickets. And those two vials. But that's another story.
This was the time in the Bay area (mid 80s) that post-60s psychedelic culture was blooming. Sure there were mushrooms being cultivated in fancy rental properties in Santa Cruz. Sure there was acid from Family kids in Mendicino. (Jack Herer's "The Emperor Wears No Clothes". was just published in 1985 and really good bud from Humbolt was starting to become available in the City.) But these "new" magic powders were a kick in the ass. It was pre rave - pre hula hoop -- and not many people had tried either of these drugs, certainly not with the purity I had miraculously acquired. Fresh from the lab. Whose, I didn't know at the time.
There was a magazine (print of course) called High Frontiers published by RU Serious in circulation. it became Mondo 2000. Burning Man like antics were percolating among the Cacopheny Society but the mass gatherings hadn't happened yet. Personal computers were new. There was no Web, a few message boards just starting --- one was called the Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, otherwise known as The WELL. Early virtual reality was a thing and Jaron Lanier was spreading his gospel. People were playing with fire and molten metals in Berkeley. My crowd was making holograms and shooting lasers around (which were big and costly back then). And the different scenes were meshing -- tech and hippy. Quite a time.
I eventually met up with some elders in Shulgin's "substance testing" scene (detailed in his first book) who apparently trusted me enough to acquire some more. By elders I mean they were in their 60s and 70s, which was ancient to me -- I was in my late 20s. They were good karma folks who wanted to raise some consciousness - it was beyond a recreational endeavor for them. I respected their wishes but definitely enhanced some Jerry shows (he was playing regularly back then).
Long story short -- I kinda gave up on the 16 hour intense LSD trips in favor of an evening of 2CB at the Warfield of Fillmore or where-ever, followed by a meal and a good night's sleep. I didn't need to dissolve my ego and circle the universe --- I was and am still content to just stick it in my back pocket and glow for an evening. I'll leave the deep dive psychonaut-ing to you and others.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD ntfdaway
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 11:37 pm
What the hell is 2CB?
What the hell is 2CB?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alan R StoneSculptor
on Saturday, January 18, 2025 – 11:49 pm
I always described it as a
I always described it as a trapezoid drug. If mushroom trips were like a wave. And LSD trips were like a triangle with a peak. 2CB would get you to a mid level for 4-6 hrs and taper off. Like a trapezoid.
Perfect for concerts. And sex. You could converse if you wanted to and even walk around a museum without attracting attention. Or you could connect with your inner shaman. But then eat a plate of Korean food without having it squiggle around on your plate.
it didn't take the physical or karmic energy out of you the next day like latter-day X and it didn't make you grind your teeth. Just a gentle psychedelic.
Then the rave cartels got a hold of it and ruined it....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: dimethyllovebeam joe
on Sunday, January 19, 2025 – 01:49 am
>>Process aside, my
>>Process aside, my understanding is that acquiring the precursors needed to make acid is the real barrier to manufacturing it, and especially on an industrial scale.
Yes, mike. before october of '66, not only could you get lsd straight from Sandoz (best case scenario EVER), chemists could get pure lysergic acid, the perfect precursor, relatively easily. As the war on drugs progressed and government agencies developed their focus on the "problem", those easy precursors became harder and harder to obtain without notice from chemical suppliers, so good chemists started to "construct" the precursors from other compounds so as not to raise any red flags and get caught. That is the current state of affairs. Various chemical synthesis "routes" have been available for decades, but Willy Myco's approach is a first bc he not only shows and describes the chemical process, he also gives in detail all of the necessary glassware needed to perform the procedures. It's an all-in-one approach with a human voice. Before this, you needed decent advanced knowledge of chemistry and synthesis in order to decipher the necessary glassware for each step of the procedure. All of those who dedicate their life to this work have the utmost of my respect, considering the federal consequences of getting caught.
>>>>Alan, thanks for the breakdown. Great story, thank you! I remember RU Serious and Mondo 2000. And i read PHIKAL from start to finish. Loved it, and truly admired Ann and Alexander for their pioneering spirit. They were heroes of mine, and remain so. I have always been "Leary" of synthetics bc of not having reliable sources, and i wasn't very wise with lsd use either. My first trip was my first full day of sophmore HS. I traded 2g of Lebanese blonde hash for two tabs of white blotter from my cousin, and it hit me hard in 5th hr chemistry class ( looking back, the synchronicity was meant to be) and i was lucky to hold my sanity together to finish the day without incident. My love has always been the naturals, though. So,not a lot of expereince with the lab products.
Finding Ayahuasca came after a year and a half and 14 - 5-meo ceremonies with toad toxin. Those ceremonies were the very first time i became educated in "set and setting", and those ceremonies finally changed my heart and mind for good. But the toad experience left me longing for a path forward. While 5-meo is extremely powerful, it is a repetitive experience, more like a hamster wheel. I still enjoy the occasional low dose at home, but no more 6 packs of dynamite for me.
When i first approached Aya, i knew i still needed to release a tremendous amount of life baggage, and i literally placed my well being and all my hopes into my teacher and those first three ceremonies. To the quick of it, i was a changed person, and have chosen to dedicate my remaining years to eventually bringing this medicine to as many as feel called to it. ( I found my teacher 2 days after he posted for the first time on Safeceremonies.com. We both laugh about that "coincidence").
There are only 2 ways to be an apprentice with the Shipibo tribe. The first way is to be born into the tribe. I'm half Irish, so there's that, but when we went to Pucallpa, Peru ( the area that is considerd the home of the Shipibo) this past August, we had 12 high dose ceremonies in 14 days with a 7th gen. Shipibo maestro ( my teacher's teacher). During 3 of those ceremonies, the daughter of the lead maestro sat in with us, took the medicine and saw me in visions in each ceremony serving medicine. That is the only other way...called "when the plants choose you", and i"m still reeling from even being considered for this position. My teacher "was chosen by the plants" from this same family and has been at this for 7 years. It was, and has been, an incredibly humbling experience, and not one that I can turn away from.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee Herbal Dave
on Sunday, January 19, 2025 – 04:07 am
First I'll buy some beads
And then perhaps a leather band
To go around my head
Some feathers and bells
And a book of Indian lore
I will ask the Chamber Of Commerce
How to get to Haight Street
And smoke an awful lot of dope
I will wander around barefoot
I will have a psychedelic gleam in my eye at all times
I will love everyone
I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me on the street
I will sleep
I will, I will go to a house
That's, that's what I will do
I will go to a house
Where there's a rock & roll band
'Cause the groups all live together
And I will join a rock & roll band
I will be their road manager
And I will stay there with them
And I will get the crabs
But I won't care
Because
-----
Just having some fun with y'all.
Thanks for your intent and efforts to heighten consciousness.
Everybody needs some light.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino kxela
on Sunday, January 19, 2025 – 12:48 pm
I moved to SF in 91 and
I moved to SF in 91 and started my transition from the Dead scene into the early SF rave scene. I always thought one of the bright lines that separated the two scenes was Shulgin. He was very involved with Dance Safe and the rave scene was awash in all the different research drugs that he was responsible for. From my experience dead heads kind of stopped at LSD and never explored all the 2C's and Foxy.
I remember one person who came to his first rave and then immersed himself in the scene only to find out that the old guy in his chamber music quartet was Shulgin. Kind of funny that he had no idea who he was hanging with. That was all coincidentally happening during the great LSD drought after the guy in the Silo got busted. 2C's for me are like eye candy - similar visuals to LSD without any of the spiritual interconnections you get with LSD and also 8 hours as opposed to 14 hours.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: and then there's jlp
on Monday, January 20, 2025 – 12:09 pm
we all need to become our own
we all need to become our own chemist