March for Our Lives

Thank you, fabes.

Does anyone remember "Creating our Future", a group to help young people (in Eugene it seemed to be started by/for high school students) to actively work for (create) a future that is healthy in our treatment of children, women, and really, everyone. If young people are working to make the world a better place with mentoring and support, perhaps they can make it happen.

It makes sense that high school age folks are involved in how their world can evolve into a safer, saner, healthier place.

This link is to a page describing how Creating our Future came about. They were early recipients of Rex Foundation grants and were supported by GD members, Ram Dass, Wavy Gravy and other people you're familiar with.

https://www.3ho.org/3ho-lifestyle/health-and-healing/healing-earth/creat...

a recent 60 Minutes episode revealed that the NRA donated $30 million to the Trump campaign last year.

Wayne L. went  on a shopping spree, this time looking for state-to-state concealed gun reciprocity..

good luck kids...

>>>They're voices will be heard

 guaranteed...if they can come up with $31 million

Start suing the NRA? I trust that the  Mueller investigation will expose illegal campaign contributions from a foreign government. 

The youth has been marching for life in DC for 45 years. https://marchforlife.org/

^lol, trash.

Decision-making is Still a Work in Progress for Teenagers

The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.

The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”

https://brainconnection.brainhq.com/2013/03/20/decision-making-is-still-...

Google "teenagers not rational emotional" and you will find a wealth of information backing this up.  But of course, let's make large societal decisions based on the emotional response of teenagers to a tragedy.

And don't forget the mantra...."it's not political."

There is a special place in hell for people like Thom.

Regardless of how one feels about the constitutionality of new gun control legislation or whether it would have any impact on public safety, mocking teenagers for their passion and desire to become involved in politics is kinda lame. 

Thom, it's the prefrontal cortex, not the prefrontal lobe. It is well known that this area of the brain doesn't develop fully until (stereotypically) mid-to-late teens in females, early-to-mid twenties in males. This results in people making decisions based in the now, not based on perceived consequences nor results. It doesn't mean that their intelligence nor passion is impaired.

Young people need to keep thinking and contributing to create a better world. Their ideas are boundless, and with great mentors they can go far.

Thom, did you march for peace when you were young? Did you do anything to make it a better world?

Right on, Ken.

Poor Thom.

No Child Left Behind

Thom, you are making a pretty good argument that teens shouldn't have access to AR-15's and the like.

Man those teenagers getting all "emotional" about being gunned down at schools over and over again. What is their problem. 

I have a friend who has 6 AR-15s. I shot one last weekend. It was fun. Sorry gang, but you can't legislate the crazy away. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean people can't get their hands on it. Good luck though. All this shit ever does is put more money in the pockets of gun manufacturers. And no, I don't own any guns. Lets fix the heads of these kids instead.

>> Sorry gang, but you can't legislate the crazy away.

I think pretending you can is best bet for the right. Pass a bill that just fixes some federal background check reporting for the most mentally ill. Maybe some punitive action against federal agencies that fail to report people that shouldn't own guns or follow up on leads on dangerous individuals. 

Paint mentally ill people and incompetent federal agencies as the problem, not guns or gun owners. That way law abiding gun owners are completely unaffected.

And restore funding to the CDC to study gun violence.  That's just nuts they aren't allowed to do that. 

I say lets just pretend there isnt a problem and just act less and less surprised each time it happens until it becomes an accepted risk of society that you may be shot when you leave your house

>>>Sorry gang, but you can't legislate the crazy away.

No one is saying you can, but you can make it harder for crazy people to get mass killing weapons so that the body count starts going down. The thing is the NRA has the 100% rule. Any law that is intended to keep weapons out of crazy peoples hands has to never-ever keep one person who isn't crazy from being mildly inconvenienced from buying the weapon of their choice.  

He's a story from this weekend on how little visible security there is at the winter Olympics and how South Korea has so few gun deaths:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/winter-olympics-2018/2018/02/18/wi...

so clearly if anyone has a problem with our gun laws, the take home message is move to S Korea

>Paint mentally ill people and incompetent federal agencies as the problem,

except that mentally ill people are no more likely to commit mass murder than people that aren't mentally ill. angry males are another story..

we can start by  eliminating  the weapon of choice for mass murders in the US - the AK - 47, increasing waiting times and regulations for weapon purchases, increased background checks, weapon registration and limits on amount of weapons and ammo, and closing gun purchasing loopholes. also improve counseling in the schools for angry males who use these instruments of death. 

>> except that mentally ill people are no more likely to commit mass murder than people that aren't mentally ill. 

Source? Because that sounds like a load of crap you just make up.

I kinda wish someone would call the GOP's bluff on the whole "Its mental health" thing by calling for a heavily funded Mental Health Infrastructure Act.  See how fast they no longer think addressing mental health is the key to ending gun violence.  For the record, we totally need better MH care in this country, gun violence or not.

Nice burn, Skudebro.

Source? Because that sounds like a load of crap you just make up.

Well, the source sure as shit isn't your NRA, Ender. Take your nose out of the GOP's ass and try google. 

If mental health is the problem, doesn't it make sense to do intense background checks AND follow ups to ensure that people with MH problems don't have guns and that people who bought guns and THEN developed MH issues are being properly monitored and/or divested of their guns?  

Nancy,

I knew you couldn't back it up. Facts aren't what you feel to be true, it's what you can empirically prove.

>> we can start by  eliminating  the weapon of choice for mass murders in the US - the AK - 47

Handguns are responsible for many more mass shooting that any variant of  rifle. Quit posting misinformation - zoners aren't stupid.

OK, so we get rid of handguns and people can only have shotguns and rifles with no more than 10 capacity magazines?

I think that what Ender means to say is that comprehensive gun control not limited to a small sector of firearms, such as assault rifles, is the way to go.

what are these protection rifles you speak of?

Handguns are indeed the biggest threat to public safety - especially high capacity 9mm pistols like the Glock (which, in addition to being the gun of choice for gangstas and common criminals, was also used in some of the most infamous mass shootings like VA Tech, Ft. Hood, and the Luby's massacre).  Easily concealable and perfect for all sorts of nefarious activities.  If you want to get the biggest bang for your political capital buck, handguns should be the main target.

>I knew you couldn't back it up. Facts aren't what you feel to be true, it's what you can empirically prove.

Too lazy to google the facts then Go fuck yourself, Ender. I am  sure you have a nice rifle to do the trick nicely. I don't need to prove a thing. The facts speak for themselves. 
 

just because mass shooters may be more likely to have some degree of mental illness doesn’t mean that the mentally ill population of society is more prone to acts of violence. i have friends who work with the mentally ill, and they have mentioned that it’s a common misconception that the mentally ill commit acts of violence at a higher rate than the general population, in fact, the mentally ill are more likely to be victims than perpetrator.

oh, such  a pleasant piece of crap when called out for its bullshit

I cant wait for the Mad Max years to finally get here. 

Don't worry folks the Florida legislature has it under control. Porn is the problem that needs to be solved. 

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-house-declares-pornography-as-a-health-r...

For those looking for a source on the lack of association between mental illness and gun violence --

https://www.propublica.org/article/myth-vs-fact-violence-and-mental-health

People with serious mental illness are 3 to 4 times more likely to be violent than those who aren't. But the vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent and never will be.

Most violence in society is caused by other things.

Even if we had a perfect mental health care system, that is not going to solve our gun violence problem. If we were able to magically cure schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depression, that would be wonderful, but overall violence would go down by only about 4 percent.

Edit..

#withnancy

by their own logic most people that are anti gun control should also support the legalization and open exchange of heroin, meth, and crack.

we have learned from the drug war that you cant legislate addiction away, so lets focus on the mental health issues instead and let the heroin industry open heroin shops in every town and have heroin lobbyists donating millions to politicians.

you could get your son a big bag of heroin for a coming of age gift around 14 or 15 like many parents do with guns. if you just teach him how to handle heroin and proper heroin safety then it should be fine.

Other than in defense of self or others, you'd have to be crazy to shoot at someone. There's something wrong with you; wrong with your brain. Something missing, perhaps - empathy? A conscience? Inability to control your emotions? Mental health "professionals" may not call this mental illness because it doesn't fall within the arbitrary bounds of currently diagnosable conditions, but anyone with half a brain () knows this is mental illness when they experience it, hopefully not fatally.

a minority of americans ruined it for the rest of you. sorry. american culture just can't handle guns. nothing will be done and more people will die, but severe restrictions should be in place. if you happen to be able to obtain a gun, lucky you. this isn't difficult, our fucked up culture makes it so. 

>> I have a friend who has 6 AR-15s. I shot one last weekend. It was fun.

#poeticjustice

Despite Gun-Control Advocates' Claims, U.S. Isn't The Worst Country For Mass Shootings

So who's tops? Surprisingly, Norway is, with an outlier mass shooting death rate of 1.888 per million (high no doubt because of the rifle assault by political extremist Anders Brevik that claimed 77 lives in 2011). No. 2 is Serbia, at just 0.381, followed by France at 0.347, Macedonia at 0.337, and Albania at 0.206. Slovakia, Finland, Belgium, and Czech Republic all follow. Then comes the U.S., at No. 11, with a death rate of 0.089.

That's not all. There were also 27% more casualties from 2009 to 2015 per mass shooting incident in the European Union than in the U.S.

"There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed," the study said. "Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom."

"But the U.S. has a population four times greater than Germany's and five times the U.K.'s, so on a per-capita basis the U.S. ranks low in comparison — actually, those two countries would have had a frequency of attacks 1.96 (Germany) and 2.46 (UK) times higher."

Yes, the U.S. rate is still high, and nothing to be proud of. But it's not the highest in the developed world. Not by a long shot.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-...

Thom- Maybe you missed it above.

Judit asked a very good question.

So here it goes.

"Thom, did you march for peace when you were young? Did you do anything to make it a better world?"

thom procreated and made the world a worse place. 

(you know thom won't answer) 

.

Looks like Thom was here

Pat Bagley in today's Salt Lake Tribune.

Whether they've been coached or not is incidental; you don't make policy based on a teenagers emotional reaction to a tragedy.  However, the progressive left is more than willing to do so if it fits their agenda.  And it's obvious that the kids are being exploited for that purpose.

"Two adult men, occupying lofty perches as law professors, argued this week that the voting age in the U.S. should be lowered to 16 because some high-school survivors of the Parkland, Fla., shooting who want gun control “are proving how important it is to include young people’s voices in political debate.”

"That was the assertion of University of Kentucky law professor Joshua Douglas on CNN.com. He praised some student leaders at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who’ve been making the rounds on TV, shouting at President Trump, Republicans in Congress, and the NRA “to demand change” — which Douglas defines obtusely as “meaningful gun control,” whatever that means.

Because these children are apparently doing a better job at broadcasting his own ineffectual political views, Douglas asserts, “we should include them more directly in our democratic process” by enfranchising them now.

Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe similarly tweeted, “Teens between 14 and 18 have far better BS detectors, on average, than ‘adults’ 18 and older.” On what basis does distinguished Professor Tribe make such a claim? On a foundation of pure, steaming BS."

Undaunted, gun-control advocate Tribe urged: “Wouldn’t it be great if the voting age were lowered to 16? Just a pipe dream, I know, but . . . #Children’sCrusade?”

This is unadulterated silliness. It’s hashtag hokum from a pair of pandering left-wing profs exploiting a new round of Democratic youth props. I have called this rhetorical fallacy “argumentum ad filium”: If politicians appeal to the children, it’s unassailably good and true.

This is not compassion, but abdication. America is not a juvenilocracy. It is a constitutional republic. There is a reason we don’t elect high-school sophomores and juniors to public office or allow them to cast ballots. There are many, many reasons, actually."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/parkland-florida-shooting-child-v...

But when the shoe fits, abrogate responsibility to juveniles that can't vote (to the consternation of Tribe and Douglas) and are in no position to change the world when they can’t even remember to change their own bedsheets. 

It takes a special type of cynic to use children as a rhetorical kiddie human-shield.

Really, Thom?

18 and 19 year olds are teenagers, Thom.

We all get one vote.

>>>>>>......when they can’t even remember to change their own bedsheets.

Thom, this is a great reminder of how incredibly powerful it is that these kids are stepping forward to be heard.  It must be very important to them that they avoid having another potential mass murderer gain access to weapons of maximum death.

Good thing these 16 and some of the 15 year olds will be able to vote in 2020. Pretty sure they'll be motivated.

It’s just typical right wing talking points. Always change the subject.

I wonder if these mass shooters ever worry about how they are potentially setting back gun rights? 

^Sure....

I haven't checked this time around:  Has there been another big spike in gun purchases since 02/14?

>>>>Has there been another big spike in gun purchases since 02/14?

Don't know about raw sales, but the gun manufacturers' stock prices went up:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/gun-stocks-are-rallying-as-they-usually-...

That's the rub about calls for new gun control legislature.  The louder the calls for reform, the more guns that are sold.   

At least it looks like bump stocks might get banned.

"Thom, did you march for peace when you were young? Did you do anything to make it a better world?"

Thom, I understand that was a biased question. As I thought through the day, I realized what I really wondered was, did you engage in what you felt were patriotic activities when you were young? Your idea of what would make it a better world might very well have been very different from mine, but did you act?

Zoners will tell me that you won't answer, and I don't expect you too, but engaging in dialogue would be so much more meaningful that just dropping your posts and leaving.

Could start with a minimum age to own a gun.  You have to be 25 years old to rent a car, maybe make it 25 years old to purchase a gun.

The hunters can have access to their parents guns under their supervision, or some such.

Good idea, good age suggestion, jamjuice. By then the prefrontal cortex of most men is developed and they are making better decisions.

>> Good idea, good age suggestion, jamjuice. 

It's a ridiculous idea, completely divorced from reality. Why do you think you could pass a federal law more restrictive than exists in even the most liberal states?

Not to mention the hypocrisy of pumping up young adults as political leaders, while simultaneously claiming they are too incompetent to responsibly own and operate a firearm.

I thought you could rent a car before 25, it's just that the rates would be jacked. I could be mistaken though.

Correct

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/rent-car-under-25-61224.html

Ender, I don't see the hypocrisy that you're claiming.  I've personally seen effective high school leaders become effective adult leaders.  That's one reason why colleges check for this stuff when people apply for higher education, IMHO.

It's easier to disregard a young political leader than it is to dodge bullet heading your way.  IMHO. of course. 

>>Why do you think you could pass a federal law more restrictive than exists in even the most liberal states?

Only because the high school survivors are on their way to talk to lawmakers.  Since the 2nd amendment is untouchable, some olive branch from the Feds should be forthcoming besides simply banning bump stocks.  I dislike the term "common sense gun control" when I hear it.  But my hope is these kids might just accomplish something.

Yeah, back in the touring days I couldn't rent a car at 24 when my VW bus broke down :) 

Universal background checks, along with a national registry would be nice.

More from Pat Bagley from Thursday's Salt Lake Tribune.

I'll be marching proudly with my wife, an 8th grade American History teacher of 20 years in Dallas that day 

Thank you and J, Chris.

bump

Florida shooting survivor: We should call AR-15s ‘Marco Rubio’ because they’re both easy to buy

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375229-florida-shooting...

part 1

part 2

part 3 - the grand finale

wow. just wow.

Do guns need to be in pretty colors? Who are they marketing them to?

Oh and marching matters. Let's march in March.

>>>>>Do guns need to be in pretty colors? Who are they marketing them to?

Here is a pink .22 marketed to little girls:

c'mon, is that a bb gun?  weird.

"Shooting survivor Cameron Kasky, a junior, said the march would include a protest outside the White House in which unloaded AR-15 rifles, the weapon used by the Parkland gunman, would be destroyed. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/organizers-plan-for-500000-attendee...

He really should research the laws he's protesting. He's going to get a felony if he brings an AR-15 to DC, loaded or not. 

Bump for the march.  I like the evil eye idea better than the pussy hat.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/23/us/evil-eye-gloves-march-for-our-lives-tr...

We are marching in Chicago today, and my school also participated in the school walkout in 2/14. Not missing this for anything.

Speak!

March!!

Vote!!!

I have a friend who has 6 AR-15s. I shot one last weekend. It was fun.>>>


I just can't imagine a person thinking this ?  Is it a power trip, or adrenaline rush thing ?






  For friggan sake.....go bungee jumping or some other shit !!!   This kind of thinking is totally foreign to me and a very sad, pathetic human to boot :(

I have a hard time wrapping my head around that also Lynn.

Insane weakness.

just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's a weakness or makes one a sad, pathetic human. could the same be said of those that love the grateful dead & saw hundreds of concerts?

now, these kids that are eating tide pods & filming it for youtube, however........

Hillman are you comparing people of owning weapons of war, to people attending Grateful Dead shows?

>> weapons of war

The AR-15 is a semi automatic version  of a military rifle.  It is designed for civilian use.

People who don't hurt people aren't pathetic. 

^^I believe that the AR-15 preceded the M-16 and that the inventor created it for military use.  At least, that's what I remember from a distant radio article, which included interviews from the inventor's adult children regarding its creation.  If I have time, I'll try to look for reports to back that up.

I imagine that Ken D can clarify.

PS: My 10-year-old daughter and I will be joining her friends for the Rally/March in San Francisco today (she invited me, not vice versa).  Should be fun!

Hey ender, the inventor of the AR15 disagrees with you.

http://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,”

“After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle,” Stoner’s family explained, saying that their father wanted to make the “most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.”

Here's the first thing that came up from Google regarding the AR-15 subject I mentioned above:

"Family of AR-15 Inventor Eugene Stoner: He Didn't Intend It for Civilians"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-ar-15-inventor-speaks-out-n5...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

Military use/weapons of war - has selective fire switch

Civilian version - only semi-automatic

China rider,

Eugene stoner invented a fully automatic rifle marketed towards the military.

That's completely different than the semi automatic version colt (initially and others later) retrofitted for civilian use.

The later version is up what's for debate today. The former is already federally illegal unless you get a class 2 license. 

My wife and I have marched in 4 protests since the election.

Today we were unable to march due to work constraints.

But, the young woman below is our daughter and we couldn't be more proud!

Proud there are zero marches in my state.

Weird syntax

She's also an organizer for her local branch of the March for Science.

That's awesome TOD  

You are either With us or Against US

https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/10155686437562217/?notif_id=1521...

"Welcome to the Revolution... It's a peaceful one...Our VOTES MATTER...We've GOT THIS..THE People demand a law banning Assault Weapons..And Universal Background Checks"

http://vivalazone.org/other-stuff/%C2%A0facebook%C2%A0-good-thing-or-bad...

I love these Student activists.

"The future is looking very bright for this country"

F u thom

no deflection intended

I admire your consistency and do enjoy your music posts too rare tho they are

loyalty   Can be admirable.    Blindly following is beyond unstable and shows a lack of mental fortitude and ethical thought 

Does just blindly following and supporting a moron with no moral turpitude make that person a  moron???

Clearly the events today will be remembered for a while to come. Hopefully the follow through will be effective, but today IS inspiring.

And not only in the US, but worldwide. And right on, TOD. Props to your daughter.

Two songs that came to mind watching the events from Parkland a few weeks ago and the events since. 

"I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier

Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be." 

And I'm re-working this classic, the reasons should be clear. Here's part of it. 

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land  And don't criticize what you can't understand     

Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command     They’ve been affected by what they have seen

For they’ve looked down the barrel of an AR-15  And the times they are a-changin'.  

Can we get rid of the 80% receiver loophole?  That is some bullshit.  

You know, I am for reasonable regulation and not banning a bunch of shit, even AR15's.  But if by some chance this does swing the pendulum to the point where there are bannings and real serious changes, some which I might not agree with, the "Gun Owners Inc" pigheadedness as sponsored by NRA will be to blame.  Sorry some reasonable folks will be out of luck, but that's the way it goes.

Another thing--gun owners need to be RESPONSIBLE about how guns are kept.  I know it sucks that thieves, neighborhood children, depressed kids, etc might get to your guns without permission but that's gonna happen.  I see no reason why gun owners should not be required to secure their guns, by safe or trigger lock (and if you say trigger lock is too easy then lets make it a safe).  I am cool with each adult being able to have one weapon unsecured by their side or bed for home defense.  But when you go to work in the morning, if you aren't carrying then you need to lock that shit up until you get home.  Sure, there are some folks who can bust into a gun safe but not your common burglar or neighborhood kid. And I want them in cars too.  

Any zoners NRA member's?

>>   I see no reason why gun owners should not be required to secure their guns, by safe or trigger lock (and if you say trigger lock is too easy then lets make it a safe). 

Dc vs Heller already ruled mandatory trigger lock laws unconstitutional on the grounds that it prevented a gun from effectively being used for self defense. 

Naomi and young people like her are going to change the world and those laws, Ender. Be afraid, be very afraid. they are coming for the NRA and those who make the laws which fail to protect Americans from gun violence. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/naomi-wadler-gives-speech-at-march-for-our...

Dc vs Heller already ruled mandatory trigger lock laws unconstitutional on the grounds that it prevented a gun from effectively being used for self defense.

So, then...bio-identifiers?

Cool.

These kids have been training for this moment. Yay for excellent public schools! 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/the-student-activists-of-mar...

I heard some people referring to this as the “March For Change” but I’m pretty sure that has to do with wooks and panhandling, not gun control. 

“I have a dream that enough is enough. And that this should be a gun-free world, period.” ...followed by cheers

I thought this was about "common sense" gun control, guys? 

https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/03/killer-mike-appears-in-nra-video-...

https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/03/paul-mccartney-participates-in-ma...

wonder how they felt about the armed security there to protect them. "gun free world, period". should have demanded the cops & national guard get rid of their guns.

i'm sure many countries around the world would love to see US civilians unarmed. smh

<<<start by  eliminating  the weapon of choice for mass murders in the US - the AK - 47

I honestly can't think of one of these mass murders involving an ak47. im sure its there, but thats not the gun that gets used, by and large.

It really doesn't help those of us working for meaningful change in this debate for the histrionic and uninformed to be blurting out as the loudest in the room whatever they ::think:: sounds right.

My wife participated in the March for Our Lives in Philadelphia yesterday.  She said it was a powerful experience.  I hope this moves the needle towards common sense gun reform.

Huge crowd of marchers here in Long Beach, CA.  I was surprised/impressed with the turnout.  Could have been 5,000 people.  They closed down Ocean Blvd from Bixby Park to downtown. 

That's awesome Schwa and Racket.

Hope more people were able to get out and show solidarity on this issue.

It's great the students are gonna hold Town Halls in every Congressional District,

where they invite the Representative to have a conversation about gun policy.

If they refuse to participate, they invite the person running against them.

I attended a local March for our Lives event. it was 100% student organized and driven. The speakers were passionate, although not as well spoken as the kids from Marjorie Stoneman Douglas. The education the MJD students receive in public speaking, debate and drama is something all schools should aspire to. The good news is that all of the students are motivated to VOTE, and they’re not going to vote for anyone who takes money from or supports the. NRA. the students are  demanding change and they ARE the change America needs. I would like to see them attend law school before they run for office..The future is looking bright. The (future) electorate is woke.

>>i'm sure many countries around the world would love to see US civilians unarmed

Why?

Do you actually believe that all the weapons in the hands of civilians deter other countries from invading the US?

Smh & lol

Actually, during WW2, Japanese admiral Yamamoto, who had studied in the US, ruled out any ground attack on the US mainland noting that "behind every blade of grass would be an American with a rifle." 

 >“When your old-ass parent is like, ‘I don’t know how to send an iMessage,’ and you’re just like, ‘Give me the fucking phone and let me handle it.’ Sadly, that’s what we have to do with our government. Our parents don’t know how to use a f–king democracy, so we have to.”

Hogg went on to call out local lawmakers and the NRA for not taking the lead.

“It just makes me think what sick f–kers out there want to continue to sell more guns, murder more children, and honestly just get reelected,” he said. “What type of sh–ty person does that? They could have blood from children splattered all over their faces and they wouldn’t take action, because they all still see these dollar signs.”

Speaking directly to politicians, Hogg added: “You’re kind of like Voldemort at this point. You should just retire, because you aren’t going to get elected to Senate.”

>Actually, during WW2, Japanese admiral Yamamoto, who had studied in the US, ruled out any ground attack on the US mainland noting that "behind every blade of grass would be an American with a rifle." <

that was over 70 years ago, Ken. The US military  is a bit different today.

I hope all these kids become lawyers. We don't have enough lawyers. 

Slack - I've seen your posts of your young boy.

Do you think this movement is a positive step in the right direction to help make it safer for your boy to feel safe going to school, Disney, movies, etc...?

We don't live in a dangerous place. Our streets seem relatively gun free and the police just moved their station directly across the street. 

You need to be a resident of somewhere to vote. We don't know where that may be in the future.  

Gun control issues don't pay the rent. 

You need to have someone shoot up your kid’s school before you wake the fuck up? And yes, we do need these young people to attend law school if they’re going to pen legislation - you know, understand the laws and debate the bad lawyers and dotards  currently making policy. I live in a relatively gun free neighborhood too and yet 6 years ago my best friend and neighbor ‘s teen was gunned down 2 miles from here. Parading your apathy and ignorance isn’t going to save your children from gun violence,

We didn't march. That's all we did. 

Do you want to tell us what to do today or tomorrow? 

Hug your kids. 

Do you know CPR? 

(((thoughts and prayers)))

(((thoughts and prayers)))

I got the oil changed on my car today. The engine light came on in my wife's car. 

My wife and son are making a grocery list. 

We don't believe in God. 

First thing Slacker should do is teach his son gun safety.

We don't own a gun. I might buy one of these next year. Probably costs as much as a gun. 

^slack needs to address the check engine light. Hope it's nothing serious.

 I learned gun safety at summer camp where I learned to shoot a rifle. Gave our kid lessons when he turned 10, and he joined a rifle club and competed for a couple of years.. he was a sharp shooter. Paper targets only, he has always valued life and is a vegetarian. He outgrew his obsession with guns pretty quickly after getting to use them -  giving any kid the to opportunity to learn gun safety and how to handle a gun is invaluable. Guitar lessons are also good..

I will pray for Poolboy’s car

We'll take it in next week for an estimate. It's an automatic transmission issue. 

We might have to wait on fixing it. Summer camp deposit is coming up. 

It's a gun free summer camp. 

Why do you keep calling me boy? 

Should we call you Mr. Tibbs?

Why do you work as a Poolboy? And repeatedly remind us that you do?

(((Prayers for Transmission)))

I clean pools. 

What is a poolboy? 

I stand with Nancy.... slacker's trolling of her is likely do to his insecurities when it comes to strong, educated women who aspire for change. 

What is a poolboy? (((

I think it's a sub kind of sandwich with fried shrimp and crawfish and shit on it.

^^^giving any kid the to opportunity to learn gun safety and how to handle a gun is invaluable.

Awesome!

>>>>Should we call you Mr. Tibbs? 

You can refer me anyway you choose. 

I'd still like to know why any of you would choose boy. 

Am I listening to my kid? Yes. 

Did he march yesterday? No. 

Am I taking him shooting soon? No.

Will we vote? Yes. 

Have you tried  asking  your kid why people who clean pools are called poolboys?

Maybe he knows how to use Google?

Females can't clean pools? 

Do you want your daughter to grow up to clean pools?

Have you seen this skit, Poolboy?

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/pool-boy/3021119?snl=1

Nothing. Is that why you refer to me as boy?

Why did you ask me if I ate lunch before editing that and asking me if I watch SNL? 

I don't have a daughter. If I'm like everyone else around here, I don't want my kid working until after college, and only for mucho dinero. 

Why be a slacker like me. You're either winning or losing. 

My son probably won't ever earn enough for your respect. 

So many questions. Just watch the video.

Goodbye Chad, Hello Toby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn2933vMylY

>>>So many questions. 

Why do you refer to me as boy? 

Because  he who cleans pools doesn't roll off the tongue as well, pool boy. 

#enough is enough

My customers call me pool guy or pool man. A few of them remember my real name. 

I Loved The Kids Yesterday Especially 11 Year Old Naomi Wadler  ..Making Trump LOOK Like a FOOL !

Double...

>> If I'm like everyone else around here, I don't want my kid working until after college, and only for mucho dinero. 

I want my kids to work during high school and college. 

I'm not like most people around here. I will need my kid to work if we still live here. So he can pay for his education. 

What do you think most other people around here are like, and what sets you apart from them?  Or was this a Michael Jackson "I'm not like other boy"?s (no offense intended, just quoting)

I'm not like most people around here. I will need my kid to work if we still live here. So he can pay for his education.  <<<

Pool boy Funds Only go so________________________Far

 _____

It's true. Cleaning pools doesn't pay enough. My wife also doesn't get paid enough. 

We can just barely afford $15-1800month rent. The available places around here are $2400 and up. 

Our landlord wants us to move so she can renovate. We're hanging on for the school. 

It's a nice town. Maybe it's too liberal for our bank account. 

We don't want to live in Antioch. 

From Facebook, this is Jim Washburn and his sign. He says he protests in mono.

>> Be afraid, be very afraid. they are coming for the NRA and those who make the laws which fail to protect Americans from gun violence. 

The government absolved itself from the responsibility of protecting us a long time ago. The responsibility to protect you and your family from gun violence is your own. 

"...a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." -- Warren v. District of Columbia

"...in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her." -- dissenting opinion, Riss v. City of New York

"Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service." -- CA Gov't Code s. 845

"A State's failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services." -- DeShaney v. Winnebago Dep't of Social Services

"There is, in general, no constitutional duty of state officials to protect members of the public at large from crime." -- Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Dep't

"The constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let the people alone; it does not require the federal government or the states to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order." -- Bowers v. Devito

"Police officers have no affirmative statutory duty to do anything." -- Souza v. City of Antioch, CA

And Castle Rock v. Gonzales...

If you REALLY want to protect yourself, wear the best body armor money can buy.

I have a hard time understanding how holding a gun in your hand stops an approaching bullet from hitting you.

Getting rid of all of the guns (or all of the bullets) seems to be a more effective way to reduce the risk of getting shot.

>> Getting rid of all of the guns (or all of the bullets) seems to be a more effective way to reduce the risk of getting shot.

There's 300 million guns in the US. It's completely impractical. It's already Mad Max

>>Getting rid of all of the guns (or all of the bullets) seems to be a more effective way to reduce the risk of getting shot. 

And again, I thought this was about common sense gun control and not disarming us. 

There's a few high stage meltdowns going on in the last 1/4 of this thread.

^When the opposing party refuses to enter into negotiations and/or contemplate a compromise with the majority (if not the most powerful at this time), then one might as well up the ante and maintain a balance of polar opposites.

So maybe it would be a good time for the gun rights folk (or their spokespeople) to start developing their own version of common sense and stop knee-jerking to every "common sense" control approach.

It's getting kind of annoying, quite honestly.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/02/01/latest-berkeley-crime-stats-show-...

Sorry, your government let you down. We have more liberal gun laws where I live and much less violence. 

BTW:  I had a wonderful time with my daughter and her friends (who invited us along) at the SF March.  Very uplifting and a ton of fun.

Not trying to offend anyone regarding the seriousness of gun violence, but it really is fun marching with thousands of people who can at least cooperate well enough with each other to pack themselves together and walk peacefully through the streets of a large city.

Ender, if you can get yourself to such a positive march or gathering, I highly recommend that you do so.  Bring your kids (if you have them) and have a picnic at the local park afterwards too.

You see, ender.  I don't own a gun and I'm not afraid of what is revealed in that article (from early last year).  I still walk around my neighborhood and the city in general at just about all hours and I remain alert but not paranoid.

In fact, I think I'll go right now and take a walk around that old "drug dealer" San Pablo Park right now.  If you read in Berkeleyside that I have been murdered, then I'll let you know ahead of time that you were right: Berkeley's tight gun restriction laws caused my death (or rape, or whatever horrible thing will happen to me).

Good evening,

John

>> Ender, if you can get yourself to such a positive march or gathering, I highly recommend that you do so

I am not that political, but I've protested for gay rights with my family.  More of a gathering than a match though.

I'm not scared of my law abiding neighbors legally owning guns.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-odds-that-a-gun-will-kill-the-aver...

>>> I'm not scared of my law abiding neighbors legally owning guns. <<<

I imagine that a great proportion of the people who've killed people were law abiding til then... no, I don't have stats, but aren't most people law abiding?

>>> I'm not scared of my law abiding neighbors legally owning guns. 

neither am I.

but it still felt right to be at our March, with my kids, with a few thousand other folks, most of whom had kids in local schools.

the overwhelming vibe felt more about keeping guns away from schools.

i know for a fact, that among kids in elementary school, the rate of anxiety is increasing(for numerous reasons) so in my opinion as of now, it only stands to reason that anxiety will increases with active shooter drills and the knowledge that more individuals(even law-biding)  are on the grounds with firearms.

while i dont love it, i dont find horrible problems with armed guards and we already now have 2 at the school, but a growing network, potentially in the classroom jiggles my nerve bone. the schools already looks and operate like prisons in too many ways. its a fucking sad state of affairs.

>> the schools already looks and operate like prisons in too many ways. 

I completely agree. The soul crushing discipline and regiment of my local public schools was a large reason we decided to homeschool. 

>> I imagine that a great proportion of the people who've killed people were law abiding til then... no, I don't have stats, but aren't most people law abiding?

I find value in looking up statistics to question my beliefs and often find I'm wrong. This is just one city, but it sure seems corelative.

Mallory O'Brien, of the Milwaukee Homicide Review Commission, tracks those numbers for the city of Milwaukee.

"(About) 94 percent of our victims have an arrest history and 93 percent of our suspects have an arrest history," O'Brien said.

O'Brien said the same percentage is true for non-fatal shooting incidents.

https://www.wpr.org/gun-related-deaths-increase-prior-criminal-records-c...

This isn't about 2nd Amendment Musket rights.

This is about common sense gun policies.

We need to do something about it now!

2018 Shooting Incidences so far:

12,689

Since Friday 409.

There's no way the numbers on that causes of death sheet posted above add up to anywhere near 100 %.

Common sense gun reforms. Do it now! Arnold agrees...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6P40wLThbc

From a gun blazing movie oops!! 

Edit *Double*

Surf - 

They are odds. 

There's no statistics.

Also out dated (2015)

The Pulse Nightclub shooting, Vegas, Texas Church, etc...

Change those odds drastically.

The odds should add up to 100 % for all causes of death, no matter when the data is from or what % any of the causes comprises.

Ah - out of all people, not all deaths.

I know Slick meant well by it.

It is confusing.

These odds skew hard numbers.

oh well, ender has no answers.

just arm yourselves and keep you kids home.

'murica.

so who pays for those kids CPR classes?

Our kid learned CPR in PE class. It's actually a good skill for all to know. Won't do a thing to prevent school shootings or save lives after a kid brings an assault weapon to school.

I'm betting that the  Marjorie Stoneman Douglas school shooting victims and survivors already knew CPR. Good news is that the school taught them civics,  public speaking, debate and performance arts. The survivors of the school shooting on well on their way to shaping public policy and becoming the leaders and legislators our country need. 

Turtle,

I don't home school out of safety concerns. There are no answers. The government can't and won't protect you, take care of your family the best way you know how.

We're trying to live in a nice safe place. And voting. 

Large groups of people demanding that civil rights be curtailed is the reason the Constitution exists.

Slack, safety is a primary concern when choosing a home. But voting? Have you had problems voting in the past?

No.

can't have nice things.

oh well, we let arms manufacturers make too many guns. nothing can be done.

Slack - In your own words you implied your living above your means.

Also complained about your wife not getting paid what you/she thinks she's worth.

Sounds like you have some issues with the way things work.

Move to where you can afford to live.

Work harder for a better situation.

If you don't agree with the way things are going...

Get involved in changing it.

Or do more of the same and expect different results.

I don't know if I should shake you or start a Go Fund Me.

>>>>>Move to where you can afford to live.

We will when we need to but for now we're here for the school and summer camp and safe setting. 

We work hard. Hard workers can still be underpaid. 

We vote. 

Do do you still have issues with me or how we live?

>>> Do do you still have issues with me or how we live?

Nope, never have.

I do have a problem with you always making threads about you

and always trying to subvert threads in other directions.

How did I do that? 

Was this a Slacker thread on cost of living and other stuff?

>always trying to subvert threads in other directions.

lol

No but someone asked if we feel safe and why. 

Slickrock,

Your "Assaults by firearm" statistics include criminals shot by defensive gun use. Seems misleading to me. 

Gun fatalities include homicides, accidents, and suicides:

There were 38,658 firearm deaths in the United States in 2016. 

Of those fatalities, 22,938 were suicides and 14,415 were homicides.

- USA Today

Ender, glad you researched it and checked out the link. I did not validate every fact and figure on there. I thought if someone was interested enough to check it out and decide for themselves they would. You did, and I'm glad of it. I did see the figures were somewhat outdated (2015) but it was posted on other websites (MSNBC and Business Insider) and the figures were attributed. I shared it here to give a little overview for those of you duking it out on Viva over the issue.  I won't waste any time doing that. Posted it and left. Never meant to mislead anyone, just throwing more info into your discussion. 

Wanna thank everyone, especially TOD, for the great pics.

Slickrock,

For the record, I didn't mean to imply you were misleading us. I mean msn.com was.