Nazis Shut Down NYC Underground Music

And people wonder why I won't post which venues I'm seeing shows at.

Lol

What a terrible article. If you can't find a feeder club in New York City, you have passed on. I can think of at least 20 independent venues there that are packed almost every night and there is nary a mention of them. Oh wait, they are real businesses and non-ironic. 

Never mind. 

Awful post, Skifurther. Would not expect something like that from someone who claims some semblance of understanding of punk culture.

I would expect that type of post (admittedly a much less informed and nearly unintelligable) from someone like say, Jazfish, but from you? Very disappointing.

Shea Stadium has hosted some of the best touring artists of underground American music. Shea Stadium, Market Hotel, Villain -- all aggressively targeted by the city in the last year or so. If you want to refute that by citing Bowery and Livenation clubs, so be it, but it will be little more than a display of your lack of knowledge of underground music.

>>I can think of at least 20 independent venues there that are packed almost every night

Name names.

>> there is nary a mention of them. 

Baby’s All Right and Brooklyn Bowl in Williamsburg, Brooklyn Bazaar in Greenpoint, (Le) Poisson Rougein Greenwich Village, and the Knockdown Center in Queens

>> real businesses and non-ironic. 

Not sure what that even means.

Just awful.

I am not refuting Shea Stadium's bonafides, ateix. Nor am I referring to clubs owned by LN, Bowery or the like. New York has and will always have an underground scene. The targeting by the city is ok with me mainly because a large percentage of those clubs are human disasters waiting to happen. 

I'm disappointed that you even thought that my comments were off base. 

You're talking about corporate feeder clubs, but this article is referring to what are seen are legit, independent, underground venues. When you refer to Shea Stadium as a "ironic" venue (what that means I still have no idea) it doesn't make me question the venue's bonafides; it has me questioning yours.

>>  The targeting by the city is ok with me

Says it all.

Are you saying that that those who run these underground clubs get a pass on safety violations? As long as they are safe, I'm ok with them. The majority are not. 

Ateix, just wondering what your creds are to judge so many people’s posts and threads. You do it a lot,  but I haven’t seen much quality from you. It’s just the same old putting people down crap. 

Post your thread and post rating creds, would you?

Absolutely not, what I'm saying is that you are talking about a completely different model than that of the venue that is the subject of the article. Also what I'm saying is that I have real reservations about your ability to name five truly underground venues, let alone 20. Also what I'm saying is that when you refer to feeder clubs, what you actually mean are corporate venues with no truly independent propriety. Also what I'm saying is that when you say you would rather have the city shut down underground venues than have a community self regular, you are perpetuating the death of the independent venue in favor of sterile, inauthentic, corporate venues.

Hey BrianK, why don't you go post to Zippy. Trying to have a discussion here. Thanks.

Mature...

Honestly, how old are you?

>>>Mature...

Honestly, how old are you? ~ TheMatureZone.net member 

Hey BrianK, again, in the interest of maintaining a discussion that is actually of serious interest to me (i.e., I actually have a lot of respect for Skifurther) I'm gonna bump a post that should be a bit more of safe space for you. Stand by, and hang tight.

I simply asked your creds in being so judgmental. You don’t have any, so carry on.

Ok we're good, thanks for your patience, see the LouisCK thread.

Tony, I apologize for coming on like that. This is a topic that means a lot to me. That said, I stand by my assertion that we are talking about two completely different models for venues – corporate, and truly independent – and further, I am not sure how familiar you still are with the underground scene.

Also what I'm saying is that I have real reservations about your ability to name five truly underground venues, let alone 20. Also what I'm saying is that when you refer to feeder clubs, what you actually mean are corporate venues with no truly independent propriety. Also what I'm saying is that when you say you would rather have the city shut down underground venues than have a community self regular, you are perpetuating the death of the independent venue in favor of sterile, inauthentic, corporate venues.Lets address you comments one by one. I never said I know 20 underground venues, I said 20 independent (not affiliated with any of the big booking houses) clubs. The New Yorker article is the one that lumps the two together.

When I say independent venues, I wasn't referring to what you say are sterile, inauthentic, corporate venues. I AM referring to clubs that provide a product and do try to profit from it. Considering that some of the clubs that popped into my head immediately, Bowery Electric and Berlin, are owned by Jesse Malin and book whoever they feel like, whenever they feel like, I feel they don't qualify as sterile or inauthentic. Jesse's history in NYHC gives him all the authenticity anyone could need as a club owner.

As for the statement that I "would rather have the city shut down underground venues that have a community self regular," (not sure what that means)  is a stretch. I said that I have no problem with the city shutting down clubs that violate safety standards. 

>> As for the statement that I "would rather have the city shut down underground venues that have a community self regular"

Oof my bad, meant self-regulate.

I will take your point about Malin's venues (I would even begrudgingly stretch it to Bowery Presents), but I have to take issue with the assertion that venues presenting a "product" are somehow "non-ironic" while DIY venues are somehow "ironic." Just does not mesh with me. Is that to say that an artist playing a drop-in show at a bookstore, for instance, is somehow something less? What about Rough Trade, who host free day shows (for instance, Wilco played there last year), and not in an "ironic," nor in an irregular way - it's a promotional thing they regularly do.

The Clash crammed too many people in their shows. 

No worries, ateix. I figured that is what you meant. 

I also have respect for your opinions on this subject. If I didn't, I wouldn't waste my time discussing it with you. 

Good, I'm glad (and I hope) we can continue to stretch these ideas out. I think it's an important discussion. I'm out for now but I'll check in later, be well.

Perhaps they wre shut down because they do not have a Certificate of Occupancy nor Place of Assembly Certificate of Operations for a club.   The building is a legal factory with a maximum occupant load of 15 people on the first floor and 7 on the second.

If they were using it for concerts they deserved to be shut down.

ochenta y siete

 

Fuckin A', thread turned civil and interesting. I mean really I  can not remember any one attacking ,Saddler(sp).

Ateix, just wondering what your creds are to judge so many people’s posts and threads. You do it a lot,

no one cares about creds

this is 2017 

 

Awful post, Skifurther. Would not expect something like that from someone who claims some semblance of understanding of punk culture.

I would expect that type of post (admittedly a much less informed and nearly unintelligable) from someone like say, Jazfish, but from you? Very disappointing.<<

All I typed was ,"lol" .

 

 

You get fired up over nothing.

 

 

.

post about nothing lol

 

"all aggressively targeted by the city in the last year or so."

So your working hypothesis is that NYC officials are now bending to the will of the Trump administration?  Who apparently has nothing better to do than to shut down underground clubs in NYC?

Really? Bill DiBlasio is allowing Trump to influence how he runs the city?

 Did you yell “but Clinton” after Trump Popper in your head?

Seriously, the article doesn’t imply that Trump has anything to do with the crack down.

>>"all aggressively targeted by the city in the last year or so."

Yes, illegal clubs are constantly aggressively targeted by the City. As they should be and have been since March 26, 1990.

Ochienta y siete!

Bump for nothing.

Full SS uniforms, german shepards, carrying striped pajamas?? Or just some cops that are trying to prevent kids from getting killed in a fire? Have any of you that think that this is a bad idea ever even been to NYC?

>>>>ever even been to NYC?

 

not since they turned into Disneyland. 

Ochenta y siete

"Underground-ier Than Thou" lmao

But yeah, having dealt with building codes/building design, as Negman has too, I agree w/Negman, public safety should be issue #1, I go to "legit" clubs (I'm way too uncool to know about any underground places) & look around & often see disasters-in-waiting under sold out sardine can conditions.