The Philzone was doomed

The Philzone could have continued to be a wildly popular board but it adhered to the playbook death spiral of...

A) A select (perhaps even few) number of people being overly offended.

B) The outraged group complaining to the owners of the board.

C) The owners taking it upon themselves to play the role of nanny-state moderator.

D) The unwarranted moderation then alienates the majority of the people who kept it vibrant and interesting in the first place.

You only need to look at phantasyboard to see how it should be done. 

>>.You only need to look at phantasyboard to see how it should be done. 

A cesspool of hate, sexism, and racism.   If that's what is considered successful, I'm happy being moderated.   

<<   effects -  intrinsic dynamics 

Brent 

Not sure how the old philzone was when it started but it ended up a cesspool of hate that had to go. At the first drop of blood the pzone sharks merrily devoured. Fuck Haters.

I believe judit has created this place in her image,, so much cooler and a much better place to hang, and the end result is we are better people for it.

I don't say this nearly enough - Thanks judit ! 

things were great when newfun was around 

It was nothing short of the trolls posting  in the manner and style of Trump's twitters. Fuck that shit.

What a wonderful place and a wonderful time, no better place to prep for todays America 

>>>>it ended up a cesspool of hate

Even Phil got in on the action when he showed up to personally bitch slap Grievous Angel for insulting his wife.

I don't think it was Grievous, wasn't it the reaper?

It was Reaper.

I feel like over the years the Zone built a reputation as some sort of lawless dbmb utopia. In a very short time a bunch of people joined up to be lawless. There was always that faction, but it became more prominent. Self-policing became impossible so admin had to step in. Some people left because of the constant vitriol and others left because of the new moderation. Some were just done with dbmb's altogether. 

and yet...here we are 

the last of us :)

i blame it on nicks sandwich

I came into the zone toward the demise and it was just a shit show. It was an elementary school food fight of endless posts that all amounted to "No you're the dumb one". But there are some people that I miss from there. 

They still lurk.  

I arrived iin the last years too, and agree that it was a shitshow, but it was a brilliant shitshow at times, and surprised the fuck out of me frequently. I miss those things (there's a real dearth of surprises on Viva), but I don't miss the few folks who took it upon themselves to trash the place.

It wasn't the airplanes. It was beauty killed the beast.

ive been here (or whichever incarnation) since 2000, 

its gonna take a lot for me to stop zoning  :)

The unwarranted moderation<<<

I don't see it this way at all.

As much as I'm a big proponent of free speech, it's easy to see how it only takes one persistent bad apple spoil the bunch ... not just here, but just about anywhere on the internet where there's a forum.  I've seen it time and time again for over 25 years.   It's interesting in that we don't really see the same phenomenon play out in real life to the same degree.  For whatever reason, self-moderation seems to reign in most people when face to face.

>>>but it was a brilliant shitshow at times, and surprised the fuck out of me frequently.

Completely agree with that. Just the signal to noise ratio was high. Reddit has mostly solved this with the comment voting. Trolls get down voted to the bottom and no one sees them, but that only works on high volume sites.

I've been spending time on Reddit the last couple of years, and while there's lot of fun stuff to be found there, finding real community is nearly impossible. That's where the original PZ really shined. People could actually get involved in each other's lives, mostly for good, but sometimes for evil.

I can't even count how many Zoners I met, and even how many I've had over to my house. That was in the early days, though. By around 2005 I felt that I had to be much more cautious.

i was miracled a ticket to terrapin 8/3/02 from a zoner 

thanks stan rose 

Bret and Schnee didn't want to play Kindergarten Cop.  Also, Phil stating he was done with the Core 4 concept drove a stake through any illusions that any meaningful semblance of the Grateful Dead would continue.  That was the glue that held the PZ together.  Look at sites like iorr.org that still have a functioning band to follow and a moderator who lays down the law.

I think I met at least 75 Zoners at Terrapin 02. Half of them were at our motel.

PZ's serious bleeding started before Furthur was formed and continued through its run, so I don't buy any sort of Core 4 connection.

I saw a whole lot Zoners at '07-'08 PnF and subsequent Further shows who had stopped posting.  And their issue definitely wasn't an excess of moderation.

The Hep C folder in it's day was wonderful overall.

>>I think I met at least 75 Zoners at Terrapin 02. Half of them were at our motel.
 

Didn't Terrapin Crossroads open in 2012?

The "Family Reunion" at Alpine, '02..

most of the actual 'good' zoners started leaving as the place filled up with assholes.

pretty soon it was the assholes who dominated the conversation.

that's what put it into a death spiral.

that, and the demise of the Q.

I wasn't around in the early glory years of the zone, but I believe that era mostly coincided with the Hallowed Q era, and I've always felt that the Philzone was as much a Q fan site as it was a Phil Lesh site.

I think the main reason the zone devolved is because over time Phil played out the "Friends" concept, and then he stopped altogether being a national touring act with major names that people around the country could get excited about and agree on.

If the internet existed in 1971 when the GD were young & raging and instead of a mailing list they used "Dead Freaks Unite: Who are you? Where are you? How are you? Send us your name and address and we'll keep you informed" to create a discussion board, it would have thrived for two decades. It would have gone through era's & different regulars but it would always have had it's galvanizing center going strong. 

It then would likely have been seen to be devolving in the '90s, with the narrative being that all the old-timers had left and the newbies sucked and didn't understand "the way", and then it would have slowly died after Jerry did.

I'm no expert on discussion boards, but it seems they have to have a central focus, and Phil slowed down and then basically retired, so the zone lost it's central focus and the board naturally faded.

But the black screen is still cool to this old dead head.

i blame it on that dude who who paid someone to eat him in Germany

The golden years were some pretty great times, weird it was so long ago now....

It was doomed when the dorks took over.  You all know who you are. 

I never made fun of Phil's wife, I can assure you. I do hope everyone is well and happy. I am, and my son turns 8 in August!

Can you believe it?

>>>You all know who you are

This includes any and all deadheads (especially tapers) as well as anyone who frequents message boards.  And Nick.

I think time just marches on. I made some friends here in the old days, got a lot of good music, genuinely commiserated with people (and they with me, at times), and I remember it fondly.

Eventually, I got busy and stopped clicking...I'd say it's like that for a lot of folks. There WAS an early morning crew that I miss. There is a lot that I miss, but nothing stays the same.

Glad to hear you're well, Chance, I think of you whenever I hear the VU (and thank you for turning me onto them).

They are on my Mount Rushmore! Glad you like them.

I still miss Lou.

Chance - 8 !!!!!!!!

I know. Blows my mind.

I can relate.  My record store turned 16 last October.  Where does the time go?  

Good to see you here, Chancellor.  

I lost his pic. 

man i've never heard of the midget ginger Rasta guy. who dat?

who is writing the PhilZone tell-all memoir?  Paging Zoner Mike!

-

poz's plunger will not be beat :)

and yes, the creekhead & DD threads were amazing 

It had some interesting ebb and flow, no doubt. I mean gimme an old-school Friday surprise, please!  

Really, really glad I bounced into the Hep C folder in '04, and am grateful to have met some cool peep's through the place. 

I miss Felina

^Salvador, me too.

Just the other day I rediscovered an envelope with his return address...

Good to see you all

JP (J Bomb)

Tatters on Thursday, February 17, 2022 – 08:45 am

The Philzone could have continued to be a wildly popular board but it adhered to the playbook death spiral of...

A) A select (perhaps even few) number of people being overly offensive.>>

There you go, I fixed that for you.

Brothers and sisters let us rejoice, for we are all (no matter what side of the venue our tickets said), Fallout From The Phil Zone.

My youngest daughter was 3 months old when I first found the Zone. She's now almost 23 and in grad school in England. Nuts...

Lest we forget out humble origins

Philzone.com wins Jammy Award for best fan website of the year!
Roseland Ballroom, New York City - October 2nd 2002

Philzone.com acceptance speech: On behalf of Bret Heisler, Len Tafro, Jennifer DeVincenzo, Kristen Schneeloch, and Robert Lucente, we are extremely honored and surprised to be accepting this award. First and foremost we’d like to thank the Phil Lesh & Friends and Jam Fan communities, and especially the PHANS - the ZONERS for making Philzone.com a frequent visit in cyberspace and your favorite jamband website of the year. It's not only the site itself, but also the community that has made Philzone.com such a grAte place to visit!

We’d like to thank Jambands.com, Relix and the Jammy’s for organizing and hosting this incredible music celebration and for bringing the whole jam community together. Of course, big thanks to the folks who nominated us for this award.

We’d like to give a BIG PHAT PHILZONE THANKS to Mr. Phil Lesh!... and **ALL** the Phriends for making the music that was the impetus for Philzone.com. And thanks to everyone at Cygnus Productions and the Unbroken Chain Foundation. "Inspiration move me brightly!"

The award was presented by Butch Trucks from the Allman Brothers Band and
John Popper from Blues Traveller. Bret & Len accepted the award on behalf of
Philzone.com in between sets by Robert Randolph & Friends and the B-52s with Particle.

I know some of us are still here from the purple screen era

The orginal philzone was not on the internet. G'Mornin all.

i miss the kookzone

All Things Must Pass

“Nostalgia in reverse, the longing for yet another strange land, grew especially strong in spring.” ― Vladimir Nabokov

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KvNt5NG-GM

>>>phantasyboard...A cesspool of hate, sexism, and racism.   

A true shithole.  I try not to look in more than once a day.

Nothing lasts.  I am just happy for the jam renaissance and exposure to Kimock, Trucks, and Phil's better bands.  ECZJIII a lasting source of gratitude.

> i've never heard of the midget ginger Rasta guy. who dat?

I'm surprised no one's fielded this one yet. LLOLLO, I believe Timmy Hoover is referring to the Oregon (by way of Philly) ex-Zoner known as OG.

>>>The original philzone was not on the internet<<<

Canyon, as usual, with the truth.

Lest we forget.

Thanks Mike -- never heard of OG nor met them / him / her. 

“Nostalgia in reverse, the longing for yet another strange land, grew especially strong in spring.” ― Vladimir Nabokov  YES!!!

I lurk everyday, haven't posted in a couple years. Been on the Zone since the summer of 1999. I never posted as much as many other people on that board, but damn if those weren't some great years -  1999-2004 seemed to be peak Zoning. 

A magnet handed to me outside the warfield at a Phil and Friends show in fall of '99 by a vibrant lass who I later learned was Schnee. It still graces the beer fridge in the garage. 
 

Spent every day here for  years, lurking at first, posted regularly for a few years then backed off as people got too 3d and pissy for me. I'm a lighthouse hermit.  Wasn't into the circle jerk but folks here were fucking funny and creative as hell. Plus I got like 5,000 cds through vines and met some amazing traders. The names that start coming to mind are Death glider the Siamese cat with all the rare stuff, Barry in Grass Valley with just the insane reggae.  Then the regular posters like Tapecat and Kook and rev shabazz and poncho the gif ninja, duke, nick, new fun, joshy, huckleberry, greater than/less than. Sloboyle and (s)notty and Okie in sports folder, Vidas ass for daaaaays while the Lakers ruled all. There's so many more, even Briank with his how do you like your eggs? It was a spit/swallow test right?! This was also the online forum where I lived through 9/11 (((((scarlet))))) and the Kona debacle.
 

For me it was finding that community that was so lost after Jerry passed and having music that tapped into that vein again in a way that I hadn't felt in a few years.  Lots of good people here still, I never felt comfortable getting close, but just getting to read like minded bullshit on a board that knew the benefits of dark mode, awesome to see the Chancellor post.

Still have my dreamshirt...

Yesterday -  (With Spoken Word Intro / Live From Studio 50, New York City / 1965)
https://youtu.be/wXTJBr9tt8Q

ive found that the double edged sword with many internet message boards is that when you allow it to become an unmoderated, lawless sort of place, you tend to get higher activity and higher quality content/posts, but have to deal with peoples freakouts and a small group of people that post hateful content.

but then if you enforce stricter moderation, you get rid of the freakouts and hateful content, but for some reason, activity drops off, even among people who are not assholes, and the overall quality of posts and humor reduces by quite a bit.

And that second scenario describes well where Viva is these days, daylight. The assholes are gone, and so is the edginess and humor.

Maybe it's time for some kind of amnesty program.

PZ had a guy who could fly...thats hard to beat :)

great post mule(iannai)

have to wonder how jughead (& peanut) are doing 

also hope young rosn is ok ;)

Yes agreed, great post... forgot about a lot of that stuff, Kona, newf, dream shirt,etc.... spent a good deal of time on the road with a bunch of those names(((fitz))))kook, rev, huck.... tapecat, dd, wow

>>PZ had a guy who could fly..

lol, he once sent me a super long email explaining how he did it.

I'm guessing that Juggy  ow has a peanut farm. He couldn't keep it in his pants.

the ohio crew was a fun bunch

and who didn't love a good streetvan post

I ragged on Streety a bit and I feel bad about it. That kid was "touched." Sereouseeley! The Dreamshirt, though, is a thing of legend.

I Love YOU ALL Past and Present ZONERS ! 

folks here were fucking funny and creative as hell << THIS ! Zoning Then.........

Now we're just all the dorks left at the party while all the cool kids are out doing blow and getting laid.

...

WHEN TIMES WERE GREAT...GLEN FALLS PHIL AND FRIENDS 

WHEN TIMES WERE GREAT...GLEN FALLS PHIL AND FRIENDS 

SORRY BOUT THE DOUBLE POST

Mule, disappointed that I didn't make your list but I guess my love for Kobe didn't shine through  ;)  

Didn't people bail when the shows stopped being relevant?   Kind of what Lance was saying.  

I must've joined after or right as the Kona shit was going down.   At that point he was He-who-shall-not-be-named.  No one wanted to talk about that situation at all.  

An oversight! That's the problem with lists without much thought, missed a ton of folks. Maybe I mentally blocked it, things got pretty tense with all the "rape" chat which I seem to recall you were pretty worked up about. 

Ha!  

Let's clarify the "rape" chat because the way it's phrased could give the interweb the wrong idea.   The great debate of whether Kobe raped or didn't....is definitely something that caught my attention, probably more than it should have.  And time has probably dulled my interest and maybe even my take.    But it's fair to say that I might have pushed a little on some of the things I posted.  Shit, that was 2003. 

What an interesting day to check back in.  :)

Philzone was doomed because it was run by a group of people who weren't sure what they wanted out of life.  We all thought we had it figured out but like most people in their late 20's, early 30's we really didn't.  We made some seriously crucial mistakes.... some were personal and it took us a while to come back together in the aftermath, but mostly professional... the biggest being not succumbing to advertising or some other monetization that would have helped pay some bills and keep us engaged.  A labor of love turned into just plain labor... and no paycheck to make it make sense.

For me the moderation thing is still interesting.  I now work in the music industry and am tapped to be the Facebook face of my company - and not even because of PZ!!  But I do get it, Ive seen it all and no matter what the assholes of the various fanbases say, my skin is a thick motherfucker, I was trained by the best - ya'll :). I also look at what stupid Facebook is going through (on a much grander scale but its still the same at its core) and I chuckle.  Moderation of the public will always be the bane of social media whether its a discussion board or an instagram platform.  A little bragging here - I work closely with a big promoter in NYC and when he found out about my connection to PZ he kinda freaked out.  It made me realize that we really were respected back in the day... maybe not by the artists because they were at the forefront but the people behind the scenes knew we had the juice, and we did.  

Anywhooo... the mere fact that Viva is here and still hosting some of the wonderful people that made this place great back in 1998 to me is a testament that Philzone was never "doomed".  We are still here for each other in one way or another.  One man's troll makes another man's day.  I love it - I love us.

Re: Phantasy... ya'll just remember who took home the Jammy!  .... now back to your regularly scheduled douchbaggery.  Lots a A list Zoners in this thread.

ps... Judit... Friday flush.... it really worked!

...and that's the way it is.

No one expects the boss to show up at the after party.  What a pleasant surprise.

(((waves at Schnee)))

>>>I was trained by the best 

We try and damn if we didn't throw some crazy shit at you.

>>> the mere fact that Viva is here and still hosting some of the wonderful people

Good people carrying on the torch, it's much appreciated. 

I just wanna add....  that while my new fangled fridge is one of those non magnet ones I do still have ONE magnet left that I treasure.  I did recently find the PZ shirts we had made at Kinkos to hand them out.  Im afraid to wash it.  hahaha.  That was a crazy night... pretty sure its the night they opened with JUMP!  but I could be wrong.  Everything is a big ole blurrrrrrr from my Warfield days.  I still drink out of my PZ coffee mugs on the reg and found a trove of PZ (cafepress) merch recently when I cleaned out my garage.  A box full of good memories.

I think there is an ECZJ scheduled for June 10 (maybe, stay tuned for confirmation) in North Carolina at Huck's place.... did yall know that Huck and Mermaid finally got hitched?!?!?!  Anyway much celebrating to be had and as our west coast brethren coined.... All who show up are invited... or something like that.  

(thanks for that Mule... those were great days back then, man I thought I had the world by the short and curlys)

Forever Zoner Here

That's all I got

Awesome Schnee !!

<I now work in the music industry and am tapped to be the Facebook face of my company>

Too bad cause Seafood Peddler 2.0 is looking for a good social media outreach manager.

It became doomed when unfunny old people who think they're funny like Alan steal other zoner's humor and pretend it's their own.  

Hugs to you, Schnee.

Nice to see you here again!

Hey JR, someone obviously stole your humor, but it wasn't me. Did Walgreens run out of black mail polish again? Is that why you are so upset?

So you see JR, the bad old Zoner people didn't reach through the computer screen and steal your clown nose. Feel better now?  Let's go play emo dress up.
                                                                         |

It wouldn't surprise me if one of our graduate trolls went on to  start Qanon.

Hahaha looks like someone got their panties in a bunch. 

Good morning JR. Though I've always enjoyed your talents as a professional shit stirrer through the years, instigating pretend flame wars just to liven up the place is so 2000s. Not to say we don't need it.

But face it, you've been off your game since you got kicked outta the cool kids table. You're just no longer a worthy adversary. Sorry. I can help you kick this thread to 100, but after that I'm kinda busy. 

Jesus, are we at 100 yet?  My stupid picture hard drive is hot to the touch and I should really run down to Best Buy to see what they have on sale. Are ya happy now JR? You are costing me money.

diggin deep to make 100. An oldie but goodie.  Ya happy now, JR? We did it! You're on your own from here on out.

I mean....it would seem counter is the obvious answer...no?