Sanders: To Lift 'Outrageous' Burden of Student Debt, Time for Tuition-Free College for All

Forums:

Sanders: To Lift 'Outrageous' Burden of Student Debt, Time for Tuition-Free College for All

"Each and every American must be able to get the education they need to match their skills and fulfill their dreams."

by Jon Queally, staff writer

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/10/sanders-lift-outrageous-bur...

Read Sanders' full prepared remarks below:

I want to thank Castleton University for hosting this event, all of you who are here tonight and the many thousands of people on college campuses and at homes all across the country who are watching this via live stream.

I don’t have to tell anyone that this country faces enormous problems - economically, politically, environmentally and socially.

Economically, over the last 40 years the middle-class of this country has been shrinking and we now have some 40 million people living in poverty. All across America we have people working two or three jobs just to put food on the table and pay the bills. Meanwhile, the gap between the very rich and everybody else is growing wider, and we have more income and wealth inequality than almost any other major country on earth.

Politically, we have a corrupt political system which, as a result of the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, allows billionaires to spend hundreds of millions each year to buy elections for candidates who represent the rich and the powerful. We also have President Trump and Republican Governors working overtime to suppress the vote, to make it harder for people of color, poor people and young people to vote.

Environmentally, we face the global crisis of climate change. The planet is getting warmer and in the United States and all over theworld we face the threat of more drought, more floods, more acidification of the oceans, more rising sea levels and more extreme weather disturbances like what we have recently seen in Puerto Rico, Texas, Florida, the Virgin Islands and elsewhere. This is a monumental crisis.

Socially, as a result of President Trump’s efforts to divide us up, we are seeing more overt displays of racism and anti-Semitism. We are seeing a rise in right-wing extremism, more religious bigotry against Muslims and other religious minorities and a very intentional effort to arouse hatred against undocumented immigrants - Latinos and others.  We are also seeing the President try to turn back the clock on women’s rights and the needs of the LGBT community. 

I raise these issues because I don’t believe we are going to solve any of these problems, and a lot more that I didn’t discuss, unless we address the topic I want to speak to you about tonight: the need for the United States to have the best educated population in the world, the need to make public colleges and universities tuition free and the need to significantly lower the outrageous level of student debt that currently exists.

Today, as a result of rapidly rising college costs, stagnant or declining income for the middle class and major cutbacks in state and federal aid for higher education, hundreds of thousands of bright young Americans are unable to afford to go to college. These young people have the ability, they have the desire, but their families lack the money for a higher education. How tragic is that? Not only will these young people not be able to fulfill their personal dreams, but the overall economy suffers as well. How many great scientists, doctors, educators, businesspeople are not being created because these young people do not receive the education they want and need?

But this crisis impacts not only those people who are unable to afford to go to college, it impacts millions of Americans who have attended college and graduate school - and who leave school with outrageous levels of student debt, debt that they sometimes spend a lifetime paying off. Unbelievably, in America today there are 44 million Americans who owe more than $1.3 trillion in debt. This $1.3 trillion in student debt is now higher than either credit card debt or auto loan debt.

Now what does that debt mean to the individual - especially those people who are working at jobs that do not pay them decent wages? It means that after you pay off your student debt every month you might not be able to afford a car, or buy a house or have kids.

But here’s what it also means that might be even more important. It means that millions of Americans may not be doing the jobs that they want to do, the jobs that they dreamed about doing, because of the burden of this student debt.

We have a major crisis in this country in terms of early childhood education. We desperately need excellent childcare workers to provide the emotional and intellectual sustenance that our young children need and to make sure they are prepared for school. But who can make childcare into a career, earning $14 an hour or less, and pay off a large student debt? It can’t be done without great sacrifice.

What about someone graduating law school and wanting to go into public law - perhaps as a public defender, a legal aid lawyer, an immigration lawyer or an environmental lawyer? How do you do that on a salary of $40,000 a year?

We are in desperate need of primary care physicians in medically underserved areas throughout rural America and in our inner cities. How can you become a primary care doctor with a student debt of $300,000? It’s possible, but it’s not easy.

In other words, the devastating burden of high student debt not only causes enormous financial problems for individuals and families, it also destroys dreams.  It often drives people into jobs they would prefer not to be doing - but that they are forced to do in order to earn the higher salaries they need to pay off their debts.  

The current situation regarding the financing of higher education is not only unfair to the working families of our country, but is incredibly stupid when we look at the long-term needs of the American economy. Everyone knows that in a highly competitive global economy, our middle class and our nation will not succeed unless we have the best-educated workforce in the world. Our economy will not grow and prosper unless we have the workforce to perform the jobs of the future.

Fifty years ago, if you had a high school degree, odds were that you could get a decent-job and make it into the middle class.  The education and job skills you had allowed you to get some of the best jobs available. But an exploding technology has changed that world. While not all middle-class jobs in today's economy require post-secondary education, an increasing number do.  By 2020, it is estimated that two-thirds of all jobs in the United States will require some education beyond high school. 

And these jobs, of course, tend to pay better. Nationally, a worker with an associate’s degree will earn about $360,000 more over their career than a worker with a high school diploma.  And a worker with a bachelor’s degree will earn almost $1 million more.  Bottom line: it is increasingly difficult to make it into the middle class without some higher education, because that’s where the good paying jobs are.

Now, let me give you some news that’s really scary, and does not bode well for the future. Not so many years ago we led the world in college graduation rates. We had a higher percentage of college graduates between the ages of 25 and 34 than any other country. We were the best-educated nation on earth and not surprisingly, we had the strongest economy. Today, in terms of the percentage of our young people graduating college, we have fallen to 11th place, behind such countries as Japan, South Korea, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, and Switzerland. 

Eleventh place is not the place for a great nation like the United States. Eleventh place is not the place to be if we want to be a prosperous nation.

In my view, the time is long overdue to change that dynamic. It’s time to make public colleges and universities tuition free for the working families of our country. It is time for every school child in the country to understand that if they study hard and take their schoolwork seriously they will be able to get a higher education regardless of the income of their family. 

It’s time to reduce the outrageously heavy burden of student debt that is weighing down the lives of millions of college graduates.

And let me be very clear.  I am not just talking about 4-year universities and colleges.  I am talking about community colleges.  I am talking about vocational schools.  I am talking about apprenticeships.  We desperately need highly trained and highly skilled electricians, welders, plumbers, mechanics, pipefitters and health care workers of every kind.

Each and every American must be able to get the education they need to match their skills and fulfill their dreams.   

In the richest country in the history of the world, everyone who has the desire and the ability should be able to get a college education regardless of their background and ability to pay. That’s why I introduced the College for All Act that would make public colleges and universities in America tuition free for families earning $125,000 per year or less—86 percent of our population.

This is not a radical idea. A number of nations around the world are doing just that, investing in their young people so that they will have an educated workforce that isn’t burdened with enormous student debt. In Germany, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden public colleges and universities are tuition free.  In Germany, public colleges are free not only for Germans, but also for international students, including some 11,000 from the United States of America.

And let us also understand that it wasn’t that long ago that our own government understood the value of investing heavily in higher education, and treating it as a public good. In 1944, just before the end of World War II, Congress passed the GI Bill providing a free college education to millions of World War II veterans. It has been widely acknowledged that this was one of the most successful pieces of legislation in modern history, laying the groundwork for the extraordinary post-war economic boom, and paying for itself many times over.

But it was not just the federal government that acted in the past. In 1965, average tuition at a four-year state public university was just $256, and many of the best colleges – such as the City University of New York – did not charge any tuition. The University of California system, considered by many to be the crown jewel of public higher education in this country, did not charge tuition until the 1980s. In other words, making public colleges and universities tuition free is not a new idea. We’ve been there and done that. And it’s a policy that works.

The good news is that in the last couple of years governors, state legislators and local officials around the country now understand the current crisis and are doing the right thing by moving forward to make public colleges and universities tuition free. This year, the City College of San Francisco began offering tuition-free college, and their enrollments for residents of that city are up by 51 percent compared to the prior year. In New York State this year, tens of thousands will go to the city’s public colleges and universities without paying tuition. Similar programs have popped up in Tennessee, in Oregon, Detroit and Chicago.

Now some people will say, “Well, you know, it’s a good idea making public colleges and universities tuition-free, but it’s expensive, it costs a lot of money.  How are you going to pay for it?”

And, here’s the answer.  At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, at a time when trillions of dollars in wealth have left the pockets of the middle class and have gone to the top one-tenth of one percent, at a time when the wealthiest people in this country have made huge amounts of money from risky derivative transactions and the soaring value of the stock market, we will pay for this legislation by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. 

Again, this is not a radical idea.  More than 1,000 economists have endorsed a tax on Wall Street speculation and today some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax including Britain, Germany and France.

In 2008, the taxpayers of America bailed out Wall Street.  Now, it’s Wall Street’s turn to rebuild the middle class by making sure that everyone can get a decent education. 

And if my conservative colleagues tell you that the cost of making public colleges and universities tuition free and cutting student debt in half at a federal cost of $569 billion over ten years is too expensive, ask them why they support President Trump’s budget which would provide $1.9 trillion in tax breaks to the top 1 percent.  Those are the national priorities we are now dealing with.  We can spend $569 billion over ten years to make sure that every middle-class family in this country can provide a higher education for their kids, or we can give three times that amount in tax breaks to the top one percent.  I know what side I am on.

Let me be very clear.  We can win this fight. Public sentiment is on our side. The American people understand the need for this legislation.  But we will not win unless millions of Americans, especially young people, stand up, fight back and demand that this legislation be passed.  That means you.  

As a United States senator I can tell you that real change never takes place unless it comes from the grassroots, from the bottom on up. Left alone, Congress and the White House will listen to their billionaire friends on Wall Street and in corporate America, to the lobbyists and the big campaign contributors.

If we’re going to win this fight your voices are needed, not only on the more than 500 campuses watching this event tonight, but from every university, college, junior college and apprenticeship program in America.

Tonight, I am asking you to act. The College for All Act I introduced with seven of my colleagues in the Senate and Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal introduced in the House of Representatives with 35 cosponsors, needs more support. This bill would make public colleges and universities tuition free for most students and cut interest rates on student debt in half.

Tonight, I am asking you to please call your member of the Senate. Ask if they are a cosponsor of S. 806. Also call your member of the House of Representatives and ask if they are a cosponsor of HR 1880. If not, ask them to sign onto the bill. Tell them your story, what this bill would mean to you and why they must support it. 

You can invite your U.S. senators or members of Congress to your campus to talk about the high cost of higher education and what student debt means to you.  On Election Day they want your vote. Now, tell them what you need, in person. That’s called democracy.  

But there is more to do than simply advocating for the College for All Act. We have got to work together to build a movement. And that can start on your campus through your action.

You can:

Start a conversation with your friends about the cost of college and the need to make public colleges and universities tuition free. Engage with local high school students and parents on this issue.

Ask your student government to pass a resolution in support of tuition free public college and urge the administration and board of trustees of your school to do the same.   

Ask your governor and state legislature to get moving on this issue.  A number of states are already doing that. Is yours? Is it more important to give tax breaks to the rich, or build more jails, or should we be making public colleges and universities tuition free? 

There are many ways you can get involved and participate in this movement. And it’s up to you to decide what actions will be most effective on your campus and in your community.

But the truth is, like every other great struggle in American history - workers’ rights, civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights, environmental protection- we will only make gains if we are prepared to fight for them.  

Working together, we can make public colleges and universities tuition free, and lower the oppressive burden of debt that afflicts far too many young people.

Thank you very much.

who pays for it, bernie?

 

how much will it cost, bernie?

 

how will it work, bernie?

 

 

ps doctors make a lot of money, which is why they borrow to pay for their training.

should investment bankers and doctors get free tuition?

 

 

pss i have no stake in this, or, well, i gues this would be good for me?   i work for a private university.  I would expect way more students to want to pay private universities if publics became free shit.

 

image_836.jpg

pssss  most top "public univerities" are funded primarily by private sources...look up what percent of your state's top public univeristy budget is funded by the legislature...i bet most get only 25% or less from the state, meaning they are basically private already.

 

so..

 

who pays for this?

 

psssssss so they are gonna let Trump voters ...or Bernie's free shit army of deluded communists...into Berkeley for free?   In your dreams.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California_finances

according to this, The state of California pays for 11% of the UC system's costs.

 

UC's are so bougie. 

Now some people will say, “Well, you know, it’s a good idea making public colleges and universities tuition-free, but it’s expensive, it costs a lot of money.  How are you going to pay for it?”

And, here’s the answer.  At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, at a time when trillions of dollars in wealth have left the pockets of the middle class and have gone to the top one-tenth of one percent, at a time when the wealthiest people in this country have made huge amounts of money from risky derivative transactions and the soaring value of the stock market, we will pay for this legislation by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. 

Again, this is not a radical idea.  More than 1,000 economists have endorsed a tax on Wall Street speculation and today some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax including Britain, Germany and France.

In 2008, the taxpayers of America bailed out Wall Street.  Now, it’s Wall Street’s turn to rebuild the middle class by making sure that everyone can get a decent education. 

And if my conservative colleagues tell you that the cost of making public colleges and universities tuition free and cutting student debt in half at a federal cost of $569 billion over ten years is too expensive, ask them why they support President Trump’s budget which would provide $1.9 trillion in tax breaks to the top 1 percent.  Those are the national priorities we are now dealing with.  We can spend $569 billion over ten years to make sure that every middle-class family in this country can provide a higher education for their kids, or we can give three times that amount in tax breaks to the top one percent.  I know what side I am on.

Let me be very clear.  We can win this fight. Public sentiment is on our side. The American people understand the need for this legislation.  But we will not win unless millions of Americans, especially young people, stand up, fight back and demand that this legislation be passed.  That means you.  

Bernie (from above)

How much would strawberries cost? 

This is not a radical idea. A number of nations around the world are doing just that, investing in their young people so that they will have an educated workforce that isn’t burdened with enormous student debt. In Germany, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden public colleges and universities are tuition free.  In Germany, public colleges are free not only for Germans, but also for international students, including some 11,000 from the United States of America.

And let us also understand that it wasn’t that long ago that our own government understood the value of investing heavily in higher education, and treating it as a public good. In 1944, just before the end of World War II, Congress passed the GI Bill providing a free college education to millions of World War II veterans. It has been widely acknowledged that this was one of the most successful pieces of legislation in modern history, laying the groundwork for the extraordinary post-war economic boom, and paying for itself many times over.

But it was not just the federal government that acted in the past. In 1965, average tuition at a four-year state public university was just $256, and many of the best colleges – such as the City University of New York – did not charge any tuition. The University of California system, considered by many to be the crown jewel of public higher education in this country, did not charge tuition until the 1980s. In other words, making public colleges and universities tuition free is not a new idea. We’ve been there and done that. And it’s a policy that works.

The good news is that in the last couple of years governors, state legislators and local officials around the country now understand the current crisis and are doing the right thing by moving forward to make public colleges and universities tuition free. This year, the City College of San Francisco began offering tuition-free college, and their enrollments for residents of that city are up by 51 percent compared to the prior year. In New York State this year, tens of thousands will go to the city’s public colleges and universities without paying tuition. Similar programs have popped up in Tennessee, in Oregon, Detroit and Chicago.

 

The Voice is an investment in young people. 

we can't have nice things.

the rent is to dam high

Speaking of high...

cookie glue get in my Corona bong

>>>>>>ps doctors make a lot of money, which is why they borrow to pay for their training

 

lol, are you a doctor?  You think that doctors make tons of money right out of their 12 years of training?  Laughable.  their debt is huge.

math is free

>>>>>should investment bankers and doctors get free tuition?

the College for All Act that would make public colleges and universities in America tuition free for families earning $125,000 per year or less

>who pays for it, bernie?

 

$70 BILLION to build Trump's wall could go to education instead. And there would still be money left over for Universal health care. Tax cuts for the rich and corporations would have to be eliminated, as would increased military spending. 

 >>>>>Tax cuts for the rich and corporations would have to be eliminated, as would increased military spending. 

 

Dang!

>> who pays for it, bernie?

More lotto and other state sponsored gambling with horrible odds. Let the math-disabled pay for it.

When we end the war on drugs, we can put the money towards the war on stupidity.  Plenty of money for tuition.  If we want to outsmart the enemy, we need to start in the classroom. 

Doctors given free tuition can expect their earnings to reflect justly. In a balanced world this would help corral the cost of health care. 

>When we end the war on drugs

 

Yes. And when we end the  war on immigrants and minorities. 

Nugs has the most interesting threads

 

"we will pay for this legislation by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. "

You are actually deluded enough top believe that this will pay for it.  Or that either party would actually pass this legislation.  And on top of free health care as well I suppose? 

"Nugs has the most interesting threads"

Well, the most self righteous anyway.

It really isn't complicated. As long as we spend more on the military as the rest of the world combined spends on their military -  then we can't afford to do things like this. We can't have current military spending, free education, and universal health care. 

maybe israel doesn't need our 8 billion a year?

maybe corporations already make record earnings and their share of taxes has been drastically slahsed since the 50's?

maybe the pentagon already said they have enough $?

maybe there is almost zero accountability to where and how the military uses the billions they get?

maybe rich people already have ways to hide their $?

maybe we subsidize corporations who already get huge tax breaks but having no bennefits or health care?

maybe these are reasons we can't have nice things?

>> And on top of free health care as well I suppose?

 

Great idea, Thom!

Yes, free health care for all is a very humane thing to do. I'd bet you have "free" health care with your job. ("Free" is a very relative thing).

College educations are a great investment in future generations, as well.

things the govt. should ensure americans have:

health care

education

access to clean water

access to power

defending the country (as opposed to occupying others)

 

I feel united with Turtle.

>>>   $70 BILLION to build Trump's wall could go to education instead. And there would still be money left over for Universal health care. Tax cuts for the rich and corporations would have to be eliminated, as would increased military spending. 

 

As there is currently zero money for the wall, that got you zero.

Cut the military to pay for it, raise taxes on the rich....good luck with that shit, the GOP owns the government and can block any of that (see 2009-2016 for an example).

(If I were a GOP strategist trying to hurt the Democrats, I'd pay a leftist to tell the Democrats they deserve free health care and free college.  That way, when a realist gets nominated, the left will run away and scream hatred at the Democratic nominee becasue they didn't support the free shit plan.)

 

I still would like to know this is supposed to work: 

Does the Government pay the tuition bills for people?  

Your kid gets accepted and you qualify (meaning making less than $125,000), so you tell the University to send the bill to the Government (or the Govenment reimburses you or something?)

OK.

If I'm running a University, my tuition just went WAY the fuck up, as now the Government has agreed to pay an unlimited amount.

 

OH, we need the Government to control tuition now, too?

O.K.

p.s. out of state tuition for UC is about $38,000 per year....do people get free tuition out-of state?

yep, not going to ever have anything nice.

 

hello ned.

University of Texas out of state tuition (McComb school):  $20,224 per semester ($40,448 per year)  https://tuition.utexas.edu/

University of Michigan out of state tuition (Undergrad):  $50,000 per year. http://www.ro.umich.edu/tuition/tuition-fees.php#fullterm

University of California out of state tuition:  $40,644 per year  http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/paying-for-uc/tuition-and-cost/

 

Should people get free tuition out-of state, or just in-state?

>> I still would like to know this is supposed to work: 

 

Umm...K-12....how does it work?

K-12 is locally funded and controlled.  It works because you only get to go to your neighborhood school, which is funded by your property taxes.

 

For Higher education, it is a national market, with minimal government funding.

 

What I understand Bernie to be wanting is zero tuition for public schools, with the federal government picking up the tab.

Again, I ask, how in the world does this work? Has anybody given this a little tiny amount of thought? Bernie obviously has not.  Or if he has, he's not very bright.

 

Here's Bernie a few months ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/education/edlife/bernie-sanders-on-fr...

Q:  "Do you worry that a focus on covering the tuition costs for students at public schools implicitly encourages those universities to keep raising prices, in effect giving them cover to do so?

A:   I don’t think so. What you’ve seen in recent years is significant underfunding. But I think it’s incumbent on those state legislatures and governors to make sure they are run cost-effectively and hire people who are capable of doing that."

 

In this one Bernie appears to be saying that the States will pay for this, not the Federal Government.

Which is it?

Who pays?

 

That matters a whole fucking lot.

If the Feds are paying, then either the Feds control state universities, or the Feds get to pay skyrocketing tuition.

If the States are paying, won't the states force the Universities to cut the budgets?

 

And what about out-of-state tuition?

University of Vermont is $40,364 out-of-state, $17,000 in state...67% of the students come from out-of-state.

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoo...

https://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/percentage-of-out-of-state-stud...

 

If Vermont can charge ZERO for in-state students, but charges $40,000 for out-of-state students, I don't think they'll accept very many in-state students, unless the State controlls their admissions.

>> It works because you only get to go to your neighborhood school, which is funded by your property taxes.

 

Well, in Colorado we have school choice, so you can apply to go to any school regardless of where you live.

Think outside the box and I'm sure we can figure out an equitable way to fund this. This isn''t rocket surgury.

Ya know, Ned....I'm the one asking how it works, and your answer is pretty much the same as Bernie's:

 

The underpants Gnome plan for free tuition:

 

1.  Make tuition free at all public universities.

2. ?

3. ?

 

What I am saying is that it really really matter who pays.

Whoever pays will have huge incentives to pay the least they can, be it the Federal Government or the State.

Even absent the question of students moving out-of state for college, if the Feds pay, you really think Congress will give California more per student than Arkansas?

If the states pay, will they pay for out of state students too?

 

I said: Follow the K-12 model.

You said: Well, you're stuck with your local school.

I said: No, you're not (because you don't have to be).

I can't make you stop putting up obstacles. Of course the funding will come from increased taxes. It's an investment in our country's future I'm willing to make. We all get one vote.

 

Death Tax for Thom!    Make the rich pay more, unless they need more swimming pools for slacker to clean? How many cars/homes/ponies does one need?

free education is a good idea and there are many ways to pay for it. Private schools will still build their endowments and people will still pay to go to "the best".

Don't waste your time Ned he's a nattering nabob of negativity

>Cut the military to pay for it, raise taxes on the rich....good luck with that shit,

 

well, just because the GOP opposes it, doesn't mean that it's not viable. and as far as that $70 billion they're likely to give Trump to build his stupid wall, yeah that funding could go to education and health care. 

 

We can change or else. Was watching CNN Lisa Ling show on how Chinese rich and poor are entering the US with the rich filling up our colleges. This hit close to home since my niece is at private college in Colorado stuck in a all Chinese dorm.

 

Chinese cash at American colleges is a massive problem

http://supchina.com/2017/08/23/john-pomfret-chinese-cash-american-colleg...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Report Finds China Sends Most International Students to U.S. High Schools

by CHRIS FUCHS

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/report-finds-china-sends-most...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The world might be passing America by

Higher education is more prized in China and India

By Jim Nowlan Understanding Illinois Oct. 3, 2017

http://www.bcrnews.com/2017/09/28/the-world-might-be-passing-america-by/...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lisa Ling explores her Chinese roots

CNN This is Life with Lisa Ling

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/10/04/this-is-life-lisa-ling-chinese-i...

 

 

You all don’t seem to get it. Huge military expenses, a shrinking middle class and increasing concentrations of wealth are the “American Way.” It’s part of our Puritanical heritage. It’s what god intended.

Shit like education, healthcare and ending poverty is just unAmerican, all being the antithesis what this great nation stands for.

It’s fucking sad that a bunch of self-serving boneheads get to dictate the American Way, and then justify it with crap. But hey, that too is the American Way.

Dividing us goes a long way...wedge issues

 

More college people telling me what to do. Go fuck yourself, loser. 

^^^^^^^^Slacky's got a hair across his ass today

us students have to go to germany....

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678

Turts this is from Bernie speech above

In Germany, public colleges are free not only for Germans, but also for international students, including some 11,000 from the United States of America

If I live in Arkansas, is University of California tuition free for me if I make under $125,000?

Or is that just for Californians?

If so, why would Arkansas residents be willing to pay a national tax?

 

Throw the baby out with the bath water is Weird Steve's approach

Dan, and the rest of yall,

 

if you want a cheerleader zone, then sure, yeah, we could all be in favor of free ponies for everybody.

But if you want positive change, you need to think about the practicality of plans.

 

OR, you can do the GOP playbook, promise people free shit without any plan.

I think Bernie is proposing free shit without a detailed plan to implement it or pay for it.

If you disagree, please tell me how the plan works and who will pay for it.

 

But beyond the mundane of how to pay for it and how it works,

well, what is the goal of this plan?

 

Who is it supposed to help, and what colleges or universities will see their studentbody composition change?

I think that no matter who pays for college, the composition (student body) of most top state universities* will not change, as they are essentially private universities with minor funding from the state.

So is this supposed to help the poor?

Why not just expand the Pell grant program?

Seriously.

 

1)  Who is this supposed to help?

2) Why wouldn't expanded Pell grants work better?

 

*those in the USNWR top 100 or so?

I'll try again, as I'm bored:

 

Assume you raise $75 billion from a financial transactions tax.

OK.

Now, you can choose to help Americans with this money.

Right?

 

Which Americans?

The ones that go to highly selective universities like Michigan, Penn, Cal?

Those kids are very likely to end up in the top 1%.

Why subsidize their investment in their future earnings stream?

 

 

What problem are you trying to solve?

What is the GOAL of Bernie's proposal?

 

If you want to level the playing field, why not tax the rich to give the poor pell grants?

Oh.

The poor don't vote, so we need to give free shit to everybody?

 

This one has some nice charts...

Why We Must Make Public Higher Education Tuition Free

Americans face almost $1.5 trillion in debt in the name of higher education

by Bernie Sanders

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/10/10/why-we-must-make-public-hi...

<<<Think outside the box and I'm sure we can figure out an equitable way to fund this. This isn''t rocket surgury

 

 

 

Exactly.

Well said, Ned.

 

 

<<<I'll try again, as I'm bored

 

 

Lol.  It's not that we dont understand what you are trying to say.

 

Its. That. We. Disagree.

 

But the condescension is always appreciated!

 

"I'm bored" was me making fun of myself for trying to explain things that were clearly not understood.

But you didn't understand that, huh.