Can someone explain why the Red Crescent hasn't set up camps across the Rafah Crossing in Egypt to let people flee the bombing and violence? Seems pretty shitty to trap all those people on the Gaza strip without food, medicine, water, or power while it gets bombed relentlessly.
And why didn't Israel agree to the five day ceasefire in exchange for the hostages? Hamas isn't going anywhere.
1) Egypt won't open the Rafah Crossing because they don't want a million refugees on their land.
2) Netanyahu and his War Cabinet have stated their goal is to eliminate Hamas. Hamas has 20,000-25,000 members. It seems that barring a rescue, the Israeli powers that be are okay with sacrificing the lives of the 200 hostages, the innocent Palestinian civilians, and their own troops who become casualties in the assault in order to achieve their goal.
The oppressed have become the oppressor. The problem is those in power (Netanyahu) was born in 1949 and so has no personal experience with being oppressed. A large portion of his parents and grandparents generation would have had some empathy with the plight that the Palestinian have endured since 1948. Of course Netanyahu would claim the Jews are the most oppressed people on earth, but that just isn't true any more. They have had their own country since 1948 and have now become the oppressors.
If I was a Jew in 1946 I would have been fighting for the Zionist cause and willing to risk my life to get a Jewish state established. If I was a Palestinian in 2023 I would be willing to risk my life to try and establish freedom for my people.
Don't ever underestimate a peoples abilities and will when it comes to wanting freedom. The Israelis are a perfect example of that.
To play Devil's Advocate, what exactly did the Palestinians think would be the Israeli response to having their country invaded and 1400 of its' citizens slaughtered? That the Israeli's would just say "It's all good"?
Sure, never underestimate the power of the oppressed to rebel, but why didn't the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians rebel against the oppressive rule of the relatively small Hamas contingent of 25,000 that had seized power in Gaza. Wouldn't they rather be led by a government that wants to live in harmony with their neighbors instead of one with a stated policy of eliminating them? The Palestinians real oppressors are Hamas and the other terrorist factions. You don't have to be Einstein to understand the Israelis aren't going to take this attack laying down.
>>>>The problem is those in power (Netanyahu) was born in 1949 and so has no personal experience with being oppressed.
His brother was shot in the back by a terrorist sniper as troops were leaving walking onto a cargo plane after a successful hostage rescue from what I remember.
When Trump and his MAGA thugs tried to usurp the rule of law through their armed insurrection, we didn't roll over and let them subvert our democracy. We arrested, prosecuted, and punished them.
On a grander scale, the same thing was done to the Rebel insurrectionists in the South during the American Civil War. We didn't wait for a foreign government or international organization to bail us out, we took matters into our own hands.
Is it too much to ask that if people don't want to live under the oppression of fundamentalist religious wackos who compromise their liberties and security, that they take personal responsibility for throwing off the yolk of their oppressors?
Look at the people (mostly women) fighting the Iranian government's morality police over the mandatory Hijab laws. Thousands of people standing up to the authoritarian oppressive regime and saying enough is enough. Sometimes you have to make a stand.
Hamas uses the non-Jihadist Palestinians as human shields, facilitated this ill conceived attack on Israel that led to an Israeli response that will devastate Gaza, and steals and hordes fuel, food, and medical supplies meant for the common people. If I was in Palestine, I'd gladly trade the radicalized Hamas faction for a government that seeks peace with its neighbors and a better quality of life for its people.
> why didn't the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians rebel against the oppressive rule of the relatively small Hamas contingent of 25,000 that had seized power in Gaza
How well-armed are the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians? And how well-organized for that matter?
>>>> His brother was shot in the back by a terrorist sniper as troops were leaving walking onto a cargo plane after a successful hostage rescue from what I remember
I appreciate the post and feedback. I didn't know about this, so did a little looking. Yes, you are right that Benjamin Netanyahu's older bother Yonatan was killed in a hostage rescue mission in 1976. Yanatan was born in 1946 in New York and spent much of his youth in the United States. He went to Harvard University and then transferred to Hebrew University in Israel in 1968. So my point about Benjamin would also apply his bother. They don't and didn't have a lived experience of being an oppressed ethnic group. They are only one generation removed from that macro dynamic of oppression, but removed they are. Obviously Benjamin Netanyahu has heard lots of stories from elders about what living as an oppressed people was like, but that is not the same as living it. It is not his experience. For his whole life he has had a sovereign country to call his own.
Being killed or having a loved one killed in a terror attack is not the same thing as knowing what it is like to live as an oppressed people. No one in Israel today has that lived experience except for the very oldest, say those pushing 90 years or older. Some would debate me on this, but I don't think an ethnic group that has their own country in which their religion is the dominant one can claim to be an oppressed population. Netanyahu has always liked to talk about 'the realities on the ground.' This phase was often used when the Palestinians would complain about the ever expanding Israeli settlements and therefore the ever decreasing amount of land on which could be used for a final two state solution.
Certainly the Jewish people have a long history of being oppressed, but that is not the lived reality for Benjamin Netanyahu. He has lead that country for two decades now and to use Netanyahu's phrase, 'the realities on the ground' all point to Israel having moved full tilt into being an oppressor on a grand scale. The Jewish history of being oppressed is relevant, but todays realities on the ground mute it. What is extremely relevant is that the Israeli government has moved to become an oppressor. The only cards the Palestinians have to play are resistance cards, and there are only two types of these, the non-violent and/or the violent resistance card. They can't negotiate because they have nothing the Israeli government wants. A true negotiation implies each side has something the other wants. This is not the case in the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. The Israelis already have everything they want. They have their own sovereign country and they have had the right of return for 75 years now.
Benjamin Netanyahu has held all the power in his lifetime when it comes to negotiating with the Palestinians. He consciously pulled the two state solution off the table a good decade ago. So the Palestinians have only those two cards to play; the non- violent resistance card or the violent resistance card. Myself not being from an oppressed peoples will not judge them for how they play their extremely limited hand of cards. Probably talking to people from truly oppressed populations would be insightful. Putting together a working group of elder Israelis 90 years or older and truly taking their recommendations would be helpful. I doubt Netanyahu would ever do either. He holds all the cards he believes.
If you want to get a first hand account of what it is like to live as an oppressed population talk to a Palestinian, or a Uygur, or a Kurd, or a Tibetan, or an African America. Many more examples I'm sure exist but those come to the top of my mind. I stand by my original statement that Benjamin Netanyahu isn't on this list.
> a two state solution certainly does seem more unattainable than ever. Maybe even delusional
And yet necessary, crazy as it seems.
> How well-armed are the Hijab protesters?
I think the fact that many of them are women curtails some of the government's violence. Not the same as a rebel arsenal, but it negates some of the firepower controlled by the government.
File this under 'Easy for me to say from the comfort of my livingroom.' If Benjamin Netanyahu was the strong leader he portrays himself as, he would offer himself in exchange for all the hostages. As a leader he should accept responsibility for not keeping so many Israelis safe on Oct. 7th. He was forced today to delete his post on twitter blaming the heads of Israeli Intelligence for the huge failure in not keeping Israelis safe on Oct. 7th. Just like Trump, he is never to blame. Buc never stops with him. Israelis deserve a much better leader imo.
The only thing I can say for sure is that the damage Benjamin Netanyahu has done to Israel and the rise of antisemitism he caused will take a generation or more to repair.
Anti-Semitism is endemic in Western culture, and has been for about 1,700 years. This is just another excuse for it to rear its head.
People use "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" to criticize Israel. Violent acts of antisemitism go up. However, by absolutely no metrics are any of those "criticisms" remotely true. They are propaganda to dehumanize Jews. There's a direct correlation between that language about Israel and violence towards Jews.
What befuddles me is that the far left has dug its collective heels in up to the ankles, and refuses to recognize this. They won't do the basic math that shows the claim of genocide to be a joke. They live in a fantasy world where Palestine would ever be a multicultural Mecca rather than a self-imposed ethnically cleansed society.
Yes, there is a lot of anti-Semitism that gets mixed in with criticism of Israeli actions and policies. That is unfortunate on a number of levels, including how some dismiss any criticism of those policies and actions as being driven by anti-Semitism as opposed to a legitimate concern about human rights and the plight of the Palestinians.
And yes, in terms of the over all percentage of population loss, the term "genocide" may be hyperbole, especially when compared to the Holocaust, the Armenian and Rwandan genocides, and the destruction of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Maybe instead call tne bombing of densely populated civilian areas what it is - war crimes. And if Hamas is deliberately placing its forces in civilian areas or using human shields, that would be a war crime too. Israel's broader policies towards Palestine, including aggressive building of settlements in Palestinian territory and the sheer number of displaced people, has the hallmarks of "ethnic cleansing," so use of that term might not be such a stretch. Egypt and Jordan are guilty too.
Israel could have shocked the world if it had, after killing and chasing off the Hamas infiltrators, announced that it would not engage in collective punishment of the Palestinians and would instead systematically track down and bring to justice in accordance with international law everyone who was involved in the October 7 massacres. That would be a long and difficult task for sure, but it would put Israel on the moral high ground. Israel could then simultaneously ramp up economic aid to Palestine and help rebuild their infrastructure.and institutions. Prosperous people with a sense of dignity and self determination are much less likely to follow radicals like Hamas.
And now Yemen has officially jumped into the ring on behalf of Palestine. Guess after being similarly bombed and blockaded for almost ten years, they feel they don't have much to lose.
>>Maybe instead call tne bombing of densely populated civilian areas what it is - war crimes.
That's a tough one when looking at civilian deaths in wars/battles in modern times: 2 million dead North and South Vietnamese civilians, 8.5 million dead Soviet civilians, 43,000 dead civilians on the Battle of Britain, 25,000 in Dresden, etc. What differentiates "collateral damage" from "war crimes?"
>> including aggressive building of settlements in Palestinian territory and the sheer number of displaced people, has the hallmarks of "ethnic cleansing,
I'll respectfully disagree with you on this. By definition, ethnic cleansing is making a heterogeneous area homogeneous. They are just illegally displacing Palestinians from their already homogeneous lands and keeping it homogeneous. Palestine, like most of the Arab world, is already "ethnically cleansed."
>>but it would put Israel on the moral high ground.
Israel has said, "Fuck your moral high ground. We are getting rid of Hamas." For better or worse...
>> Israel could then simultaneously ramp up economic aid to Palestine and help rebuild their infrastructure.and institutions. Prosperous people with a sense of dignity and self determination are much less likely to follow radicals like Hamas.
As we all learned as little kids on the playground, as long as you appease bullies, they will continue to bully. There will come a time for Israel to make more overt bridge building gestures to the Palestinian people, but now their primary focus is dealing with the bully that is Hamas. At least they told the citizens to clear out of Northern Gaza before intensifying their bombing campaign of North Gaza and invading it. It's not like Hamas gave the 1700 Israelis it killed any warning of their terrorist attack. Hamas are the ones who first stated their goal is the destruction of Israel. You reap what you sow.
As for the moral high ground, Israel has identified Hamas as their enemy and declared war on them. They are trying to follow the established rules of war. They are even announcing where they are going to strike beforehand to give people a chance to evacuate. Did the Allies do this when they carpet-bombed Nazi Germany or dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Wars are ugly and messy. Once the evil has been defeated there will be a time for rebuilding and reconciliation.
I keep deleting my posts, for the best I figure! But I did get a nice birthday package from Katz Deli in NYC for my bday last week, but ate at the Syrian restaurant in town too! Delicious food from both... may food, music, art, and culture unite us!!! (vs the rest of the ugliness that never seems to end, just get worse... and worse... and worse... at least the food keeps getting better, and better, and better)
Israeli security forces were asleep at the switch because Netanyahu had redeployed them to the west bank to defend the militant Jewish settlers that he needed to keep in his coalition in order to stay out of jail, and because many in the defense force had resigned or pulled back because of his power grab with the courts.
Sorry but there is no way Netanyahu did this on purpose in order to gin up a reason to retaliate. 70% of Jewish Israels want him to resign after this war. Him and his party are done and he is going to jail for corruption at the least. His whole reason for being in power was you let me be an asshole and I will keep you safe. That is gone now.
>>>how? we give them over $3 billion in foreign aid a year? i don't get it.
We give them all that aid for the same reason China allows North Korea to exist. Each power likes to have an unstable pit bull to attack people who threaten them. China wants to keep western allied democracies in check and America wants to make sure the oil flows.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
Elon Musk approved this
Elon Musk approved this messageTop of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _________
Ground Invasion coming
Ground Invasion coming goodbye hamas.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Can someone explain why the
Can someone explain why the Red Crescent hasn't set up camps across the Rafah Crossing in Egypt to let people flee the bombing and violence? Seems pretty shitty to trap all those people on the Gaza strip without food, medicine, water, or power while it gets bombed relentlessly.
And why didn't Israel agree to the five day ceasefire in exchange for the hostages? Hamas isn't going anywhere.
What''s the reason for this again?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
From what I've read:
From what I've read:
1) Egypt won't open the Rafah Crossing because they don't want a million refugees on their land.
2) Netanyahu and his War Cabinet have stated their goal is to eliminate Hamas. Hamas has 20,000-25,000 members. It seems that barring a rescue, the Israeli powers that be are okay with sacrificing the lives of the 200 hostages, the innocent Palestinian civilians, and their own troops who become casualties in the assault in order to achieve their goal.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: TommyGutt
What''s the reason for this
What''s the reason for this again? right back where we've always been !
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
These excuses are wearing
These excuses are wearing thin. So what's the reason for this again?
How many stones do we have to line up
Before we understand?
Caught up, drawing lines on a paper
At the price of the blood in the sand
So what's the reason for this again?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
We're all the same, but you
We're all the same, but you're not my friend.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: billionyearoldcarbon
The oppressed have become the
The oppressed have become the oppressor. The problem is those in power (Netanyahu) was born in 1949 and so has no personal experience with being oppressed. A large portion of his parents and grandparents generation would have had some empathy with the plight that the Palestinian have endured since 1948. Of course Netanyahu would claim the Jews are the most oppressed people on earth, but that just isn't true any more. They have had their own country since 1948 and have now become the oppressors.
If I was a Jew in 1946 I would have been fighting for the Zionist cause and willing to risk my life to get a Jewish state established. If I was a Palestinian in 2023 I would be willing to risk my life to try and establish freedom for my people.
Don't ever underestimate a peoples abilities and will when it comes to wanting freedom. The Israelis are a perfect example of that.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: TommyGutt
shifting powders back and
shifting powders back and forth
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
To play Devil's Advocate,
To play Devil's Advocate, what exactly did the Palestinians think would be the Israeli response to having their country invaded and 1400 of its' citizens slaughtered? That the Israeli's would just say "It's all good"?
Sure, never underestimate the power of the oppressed to rebel, but why didn't the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians rebel against the oppressive rule of the relatively small Hamas contingent of 25,000 that had seized power in Gaza. Wouldn't they rather be led by a government that wants to live in harmony with their neighbors instead of one with a stated policy of eliminating them? The Palestinians real oppressors are Hamas and the other terrorist factions. You don't have to be Einstein to understand the Israelis aren't going to take this attack laying down.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: ltk173
>>>>The problem is those in
>>>>The problem is those in power (Netanyahu) was born in 1949 and so has no personal experience with being oppressed.
His brother was shot in the back by a terrorist sniper as troops were leaving walking onto a cargo plane after a successful hostage rescue from what I remember.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dr. Benway
not safe for work, or for
not safe for work, or for life in general, click at your own risk
https://old.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/17j0w33/aftermath_of_israeli_st...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
>The Palestinians real
>The Palestinians real oppressors are Hamas and the other terrorist factions.<
well they sure aren't helping the average joe palestinian, but c'mon....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
I'm not so sure, Turtle.
I'm not so sure, Turtle.
When Trump and his MAGA thugs tried to usurp the rule of law through their armed insurrection, we didn't roll over and let them subvert our democracy. We arrested, prosecuted, and punished them.
On a grander scale, the same thing was done to the Rebel insurrectionists in the South during the American Civil War. We didn't wait for a foreign government or international organization to bail us out, we took matters into our own hands.
Is it too much to ask that if people don't want to live under the oppression of fundamentalist religious wackos who compromise their liberties and security, that they take personal responsibility for throwing off the yolk of their oppressors?
Look at the people (mostly women) fighting the Iranian government's morality police over the mandatory Hijab laws. Thousands of people standing up to the authoritarian oppressive regime and saying enough is enough. Sometimes you have to make a stand.
Hamas uses the non-Jihadist Palestinians as human shields, facilitated this ill conceived attack on Israel that led to an Israeli response that will devastate Gaza, and steals and hordes fuel, food, and medical supplies meant for the common people. If I was in Palestine, I'd gladly trade the radicalized Hamas faction for a government that seeks peace with its neighbors and a better quality of life for its people.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
> why didn't the 1.4 million
> why didn't the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians rebel against the oppressive rule of the relatively small Hamas contingent of 25,000 that had seized power in Gaza
How well-armed are the 1.4 million non-Hamas Palestinians? And how well-organized for that matter?
Also, yoke.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
How well-armed are the Hijab
How well-armed are the Hijab protesters?
Also, how do you like your eggs?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: billionyearoldcarbon
>>>> His brother was shot in
>>>> His brother was shot in the back by a terrorist sniper as troops were leaving walking onto a cargo plane after a successful hostage rescue from what I remember
I appreciate the post and feedback. I didn't know about this, so did a little looking. Yes, you are right that Benjamin Netanyahu's older bother Yonatan was killed in a hostage rescue mission in 1976. Yanatan was born in 1946 in New York and spent much of his youth in the United States. He went to Harvard University and then transferred to Hebrew University in Israel in 1968. So my point about Benjamin would also apply his bother. They don't and didn't have a lived experience of being an oppressed ethnic group. They are only one generation removed from that macro dynamic of oppression, but removed they are. Obviously Benjamin Netanyahu has heard lots of stories from elders about what living as an oppressed people was like, but that is not the same as living it. It is not his experience. For his whole life he has had a sovereign country to call his own.
Being killed or having a loved one killed in a terror attack is not the same thing as knowing what it is like to live as an oppressed people. No one in Israel today has that lived experience except for the very oldest, say those pushing 90 years or older. Some would debate me on this, but I don't think an ethnic group that has their own country in which their religion is the dominant one can claim to be an oppressed population. Netanyahu has always liked to talk about 'the realities on the ground.' This phase was often used when the Palestinians would complain about the ever expanding Israeli settlements and therefore the ever decreasing amount of land on which could be used for a final two state solution.
Certainly the Jewish people have a long history of being oppressed, but that is not the lived reality for Benjamin Netanyahu. He has lead that country for two decades now and to use Netanyahu's phrase, 'the realities on the ground' all point to Israel having moved full tilt into being an oppressor on a grand scale. The Jewish history of being oppressed is relevant, but todays realities on the ground mute it. What is extremely relevant is that the Israeli government has moved to become an oppressor. The only cards the Palestinians have to play are resistance cards, and there are only two types of these, the non-violent and/or the violent resistance card. They can't negotiate because they have nothing the Israeli government wants. A true negotiation implies each side has something the other wants. This is not the case in the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. The Israelis already have everything they want. They have their own sovereign country and they have had the right of return for 75 years now.
Benjamin Netanyahu has held all the power in his lifetime when it comes to negotiating with the Palestinians. He consciously pulled the two state solution off the table a good decade ago. So the Palestinians have only those two cards to play; the non- violent resistance card or the violent resistance card. Myself not being from an oppressed peoples will not judge them for how they play their extremely limited hand of cards. Probably talking to people from truly oppressed populations would be insightful. Putting together a working group of elder Israelis 90 years or older and truly taking their recommendations would be helpful. I doubt Netanyahu would ever do either. He holds all the cards he believes.
If you want to get a first hand account of what it is like to live as an oppressed population talk to a Palestinian, or a Uygur, or a Kurd, or a Tibetan, or an African America. Many more examples I'm sure exist but those come to the top of my mind. I stand by my original statement that Benjamin Netanyahu isn't on this list.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
"who started it" really only
"who started it" really only depends on from which point in history one decides to start keeping score
but it damn sure didn't start on October 7th, 2023
at this point in history, a two state solution certainly does seem more unattainable than ever. Maybe even delusional
So until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior... (WAR)
...something like that
ill take my eggs hard boiled please
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
> a two state solution
> a two state solution certainly does seem more unattainable than ever. Maybe even delusional
And yet necessary, crazy as it seems.
> How well-armed are the Hijab protesters?
I think the fact that many of them are women curtails some of the government's violence. Not the same as a rebel arsenal, but it negates some of the firepower controlled by the government.
> Also, how do you like your eggs?
Make mine ovoid, please.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: billionyearoldcarbon
File this under 'Easy for me
File this under 'Easy for me to say from the comfort of my livingroom.' If Benjamin Netanyahu was the strong leader he portrays himself as, he would offer himself in exchange for all the hostages. As a leader he should accept responsibility for not keeping so many Israelis safe on Oct. 7th. He was forced today to delete his post on twitter blaming the heads of Israeli Intelligence for the huge failure in not keeping Israelis safe on Oct. 7th. Just like Trump, he is never to blame. Buc never stops with him. Israelis deserve a much better leader imo.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: dimethyllovebeam
Us and Them
Us and Them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqazgbuLY0I
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
wall st. LOVES this shit.
wall st. LOVES this shit.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/wall-street-morgan-stanley...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
The only thing I can say for
The only thing I can say for sure is that the damage Benjamin Netanyahu has done to Israel and the rise of antisemitism he caused will take a generation or more to repair.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
Anti-Semitism is endemic in
Anti-Semitism is endemic in Western culture, and has been for about 1,700 years. This is just another excuse for it to rear its head.
People use "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" to criticize Israel. Violent acts of antisemitism go up. However, by absolutely no metrics are any of those "criticisms" remotely true. They are propaganda to dehumanize Jews. There's a direct correlation between that language about Israel and violence towards Jews.
What befuddles me is that the far left has dug its collective heels in up to the ankles, and refuses to recognize this. They won't do the basic math that shows the claim of genocide to be a joke. They live in a fantasy world where Palestine would ever be a multicultural Mecca rather than a self-imposed ethnically cleansed society.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Yes, there is a lot of anti
Yes, there is a lot of anti-Semitism that gets mixed in with criticism of Israeli actions and policies. That is unfortunate on a number of levels, including how some dismiss any criticism of those policies and actions as being driven by anti-Semitism as opposed to a legitimate concern about human rights and the plight of the Palestinians.
And yes, in terms of the over all percentage of population loss, the term "genocide" may be hyperbole, especially when compared to the Holocaust, the Armenian and Rwandan genocides, and the destruction of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Maybe instead call tne bombing of densely populated civilian areas what it is - war crimes. And if Hamas is deliberately placing its forces in civilian areas or using human shields, that would be a war crime too. Israel's broader policies towards Palestine, including aggressive building of settlements in Palestinian territory and the sheer number of displaced people, has the hallmarks of "ethnic cleansing," so use of that term might not be such a stretch. Egypt and Jordan are guilty too.
Israel could have shocked the world if it had, after killing and chasing off the Hamas infiltrators, announced that it would not engage in collective punishment of the Palestinians and would instead systematically track down and bring to justice in accordance with international law everyone who was involved in the October 7 massacres. That would be a long and difficult task for sure, but it would put Israel on the moral high ground. Israel could then simultaneously ramp up economic aid to Palestine and help rebuild their infrastructure.and institutions. Prosperous people with a sense of dignity and self determination are much less likely to follow radicals like Hamas.
And now Yemen has officially jumped into the ring on behalf of Palestine. Guess after being similarly bombed and blockaded for almost ten years, they feel they don't have much to lose.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Briank
>>Maybe instead call tne
>>Maybe instead call tne bombing of densely populated civilian areas what it is - war crimes.
That's a tough one when looking at civilian deaths in wars/battles in modern times: 2 million dead North and South Vietnamese civilians, 8.5 million dead Soviet civilians, 43,000 dead civilians on the Battle of Britain, 25,000 in Dresden, etc. What differentiates "collateral damage" from "war crimes?"
>> including aggressive building of settlements in Palestinian territory and the sheer number of displaced people, has the hallmarks of "ethnic cleansing,
I'll respectfully disagree with you on this. By definition, ethnic cleansing is making a heterogeneous area homogeneous. They are just illegally displacing Palestinians from their already homogeneous lands and keeping it homogeneous. Palestine, like most of the Arab world, is already "ethnically cleansed."
>>but it would put Israel on the moral high ground.
Israel has said, "Fuck your moral high ground. We are getting rid of Hamas." For better or worse...
>> Israel could then simultaneously ramp up economic aid to Palestine and help rebuild their infrastructure.and institutions. Prosperous people with a sense of dignity and self determination are much less likely to follow radicals like Hamas.
I fully agree, and wish that's what happened.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Philzone Refugee
As we all learned as little
As we all learned as little kids on the playground, as long as you appease bullies, they will continue to bully. There will come a time for Israel to make more overt bridge building gestures to the Palestinian people, but now their primary focus is dealing with the bully that is Hamas. At least they told the citizens to clear out of Northern Gaza before intensifying their bombing campaign of North Gaza and invading it. It's not like Hamas gave the 1700 Israelis it killed any warning of their terrorist attack. Hamas are the ones who first stated their goal is the destruction of Israel. You reap what you sow.
As for the moral high ground, Israel has identified Hamas as their enemy and declared war on them. They are trying to follow the established rules of war. They are even announcing where they are going to strike beforehand to give people a chance to evacuate. Did the Allies do this when they carpet-bombed Nazi Germany or dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Wars are ugly and messy. Once the evil has been defeated there will be a time for rebuilding and reconciliation.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Mice elf
>>>What differentiates
>>>What differentiates "collateral damage" from "war crimes?"<<<
The "Geneva Conventions"
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
>>> What differentiates
>>> What differentiates "collateral damage" from "war crimes?" <<<
Marketing, public relations
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cultivate kindness
Can we impose a Viva Tax that
Can we impose a Viva Tax that requires zoners who post about war to make a corresponding post that's uplifting somehow?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
I keep deleting my posts, for
I keep deleting my posts, for the best I figure! But I did get a nice birthday package from Katz Deli in NYC for my bday last week, but ate at the Syrian restaurant in town too! Delicious food from both... may food, music, art, and culture unite us!!! (vs the rest of the ugliness that never seems to end, just get worse... and worse... and worse... at least the food keeps getting better, and better, and better)
May love prevail in the end!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
Nothing I say will help.
Nothing I say will help.
collectively all heading down the mtn. Brakes are shot, tires bad.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I can't believe anyone would
I can't believe anyone would/could justify what Netanyahu has done. They were warned and chose to let it happen. So they could retaliate.
As long as hate rules the mideast the region is doomed.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Druba
^
^
Some think that's how 9/11 worked (thank you PNAC).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
>> They were warned and chose
>> They were warned and chose to let it happen. So they could retaliate. <<
First I heard anyone say that; Israeli security was asleep at thw switch.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: An organ grinder’s tune
how? we give them over $3
how? we give them over $3 billion in foreign aid a year? i don't get it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Israeli security forces were
Israeli security forces were asleep at the switch because Netanyahu had redeployed them to the west bank to defend the militant Jewish settlers that he needed to keep in his coalition in order to stay out of jail, and because many in the defense force had resigned or pulled back because of his power grab with the courts.
Sorry but there is no way Netanyahu did this on purpose in order to gin up a reason to retaliate. 70% of Jewish Israels want him to resign after this war. Him and his party are done and he is going to jail for corruption at the least. His whole reason for being in power was you let me be an asshole and I will keep you safe. That is gone now.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
>>>how? we give them over $3
>>>how? we give them over $3 billion in foreign aid a year? i don't get it.
We give them all that aid for the same reason China allows North Korea to exist. Each power likes to have an unstable pit bull to attack people who threaten them. China wants to keep western allied democracies in check and America wants to make sure the oil flows.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
He'll go to jail the day
He'll go to jail the day after chump does.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Woz
Hopefully for the world that
Hopefully for the sake of the world that day comes sooner than later.