Terrapin For Sale?

West coast Shappy?  Please nooooooooo! 

Would love to hear a solid update about Phil, though.

Nothing lasts.

The train put its brakes on, and the whistle is screaming...

If the place was pulling in a nice profit, i'm sure there would be no interest in selling.

Yes looking for a solid Phil update...

Phil is recovering from back surgery, right? Hope it's just a slow recovery, and nothing more serious. (((Phil)))

California is hard. 

Slackers a whiney bitch.

Yes bob was having back problems too

the rumor would  be more believable if OP didn’t try to blame Jill. 

Gotta blame the boss first.

what, they won't be able to fill the place with rmfj and the busboys as headliners?

i'm sure it ain't easy trying to run a modern music venue in sf these days.

love to ya phil.

"Jill is board"

c'mon, she's not that flat!

Love to all 

no exceptions 

For the grammar freaks, and I can be one two

(fixed that)

i heard disney is making it a gd theme park. 

wings replace ears.

Lassen

 No Treble No Trouble on Wednesday, November 13, 2019 – 05:14 pm 

If the place was pulling in a nice profit, i'm sure there would be no interest in selling.>>

Actually, the time to sell a business is when it's making money. 

What? No more busboy jokes?

it's too far from airports.

 I always wanted to go there at least once. Alas if the rumors are true it will never happen. Hope Phil is doing OK and he continues on his journey in this plane for many more years.

((((Phil))))

If this is true, and it certainly could be, then Shapiro is the best possible buyer.

" "

Hardly ever hear any drama about cutting the line, hoodies on the ground or anything about that place any more. It’s a shame. 

  NOpiro please

BGP well,  ok

saw Jill there maybe 6 months ago

I never got the sense there's that there was much of a focused general manager or management team 

 very few people totally on top of it

many nice folks tho

and Pete is a superstar 

it's not the most professionally run place to be honest

 Not wanting to put anyone down

And I am is full of shit and as critical as anybody out there

I do love that place 

warts and all

i have had so many fantastic times there

and great and good shows

and good crowds n fans

"drama" and all

the vip tickets were bullshit too ($300?)

and I am so, so  very grateful 

and have been so blessed

I do love Phil so

Bucky only seems to be happy when others are upset.

And Shapiro would be the only one who would keep that place running in the spirit it was built on and actually keep it successful. Still, those that complained about things before would certainly find other things to complain about.

Because some people just complain about everything, which I guess makes it easy.

But look on the bright side, maybe there would be sourdough.

Sour grapes?

I miss the grilled cheese sammies at break.

Sell it to Bill Nershi.

hope phil is doing well and that the final chapters of the GD story are easy and meaningful.

and this is not a dig on phil at all, i doubt he is booking bands, but shapiro might be the best thing for that place. when i look at the txr calender its like a caricature of what i think most people who dont know the dead must think of when you describe going to post jerry dead shows and the jam scene in general - nostalgia cover bands, lightweight bluegrass and noodly bar bands. the calendar is punctuated by a few names i know are good and the occasional DNB show, but aside from that the calendar is absolute cringe, the very kind of thing you try and steer peoples perceptions away from when describing the dead.

at least with shappy we might get some shows with the brooklyn bowl freaks ball/jrad crew or some one off shows with some bigger names focused on heavier rock and roll and/or improv. there are a few pretty sweet shows/lineups in that vein every year around BB and the cap. lots of russo activity and many lineups that sound infinitely more interesting than most of what is there now. im sure as long as phil can play shows, the PLF stuff will remain pretty much unchanged whether phil/jill or shappy is running the place...but maybe with shappy the non PLF stuff might get a bit more interesting and lose some of the stereotypical saccharine hippie/jam/cover band stuff thats been growing and growing on the txr calendar the past couple years.  

Don't remember the exact number, but max occupancy is not much above 300, maybe 350.   Who is it that you think will play there?

When daylight is talking about food or drugs it is impressively obvious that he knows what he's talking about.

Understanding how to run a venue, especially a VERY small venue successfully along with a large restaurant that offers free live music every day and often multiple times a day is, well it shows some holes.

I actually think that considering the Grate Room's small capacity they do pretty well these days with bookings that work and also do go outside GD cover bands. But of course you have to book those too, if you want to stay open that is.

But the young man IS right that Shapiro would bring a major league weight to the booking side and would likely look to run the place much more often. He would also be able to use his connections to get larger name special events in there at times, and his close association with Phil would allow him to easily continue to use the place at his whim as well.

I think Terrapin Crossroads has been a great, extremely unique & hugely successful place, and ultimately I just want to see it keep going as it has been, and I want to keep seeing Phil play there.

Long Live TxR!!!!!

LONG LIVE PHIL LESH!!!!!!

Reliable source!

bryen?

I would love to have Jill serve me another grilled cheese

flo be right

those were the tastiest, and to me, the best food that I ever had there 

lots of magic at our clubhouse, esp the first couple of years

all bonus rounds  

long_live_the_dead 

Once the deal goes down, will a Zoner finally cop to being the one who shit on the bocce court?

of course. can't believe it made it past 2013 w/ their 100% amateur bands playing. people want to see good music -- gd playland doesn't mean shit w/o good music. 

Give it to Rob!

Smart move. Get some cash why you can and get out.  Restaurants are money pits..if you don't have a 5 year plan or are somehow the only or best game in town then get out before you lose everything.  For people with lots of cash it's easier to sell for a loss or keep throwing in money to keep the doors open but at some point it starts to suck you dry. 

Shapiro has the knowledge, youth and most importantly the money to make this a real music destination. 

Isn't TXR the child of the Terrapin Project ? So in fact everyone who purchased this show are the actual owners of that place.

Ok freaks lets unite, get a lawyer (Ken) and take back what is rightfully ours !!   

Then we can pick a board of directors (Ken) and run it ourselves.

And fuck that grilled cheese, we'll hire a real chef (Ken) and offer some real memu options ( eggplant waffles). WTF people

Freaks Unite !!!

Sad if it's true as Shapiro will change the place, but I suppose change is the only constant in life.

And we can look forward to VIP packages, and VVIP packages. 

"Isn't TXR the child of the Terrapin Project ?"

No. Levons' barn was more of an inspiration than the Terrapin Project (which anyone with half a brain knew would never see the light of day).

^ yer an idiot wrapped inside a moron

"...It's a Bullshit Lie!!" ???

And Shapiro would be the only one<<<

Who else do we know that claims to be the "only one" (that can turn things around / keep things afloat)?

< Bucky only seems to be happy when others are upset >

and there's a good football game on 

i agree there has been an improvement in bookings.

did someone say sourdoug$?

No. Levons' barn was more of an inspiration than the Terrapin Project (which anyone with half a brain knew would never see the light of day).

...

^ yer an idiot wrapped inside a moron

idiots and morons aside that is the basic txr story...its not connected to the terrapin project at all, and phil got the inspiration at a levon ramble...which i assume is also the inspiration for the family friendly roots rock vibe of the place. 

Don't remember the exact number, but max occupancy is not much above 300, maybe 350.   Who is it that you think will play there?

if shappy owns the place id hope we would get a couple of the one-off improv type shows that shapiro puts on at BB/the cap using joe russo, the other jrad folks, and a whole larger group of friend/musicians in their larger friend group of experimental jamband type improvisors that mostly all live and play shows in NYC. most of them are smaller names that command lower ticket prices and tend to play smaller rooms, with the cap being the absolute largest room any of those guys play aside from when JRAD is on tour. you san hear many of these types of sets if you listen to the yearly "brooklyn bowl freaks ball" shows. shappy puts these on and they are pretty sweet, much better than the standard TXR fare. the freaks ball is where JRAD was formed...it was originally intended to be one of these one-off freaks ball sets, and it just happened to take off in a really big way.

there is also a small group of improvisors in the SF bay i thought i'd be seeing alot more of at TXR. the two the zone would probably be the most framiliar with is wil blades and scott amendola. they already have local deadhead fans...lance was the one who turned me on to these guys. scott has played txr a small handful of times and wil blades has played there once, but before the place opened i was kinda expecting a few imrpov throwdowns from these types of players each year. so far there hasnt been much. maybe they just dont want to play there that much on there are scheduling issues, but i see a clear bias on the txr calendar towards song based sets and away from groups playing super long jams or entirely instrumental shows.

and the biggest possible change for me wouldnt be who IS playing there, but who might not be playing there. if phil is out of the picture as an owner of TXR, will shappy feel the need to continue devoting such a huge section of the txr calendar to grahame lesh and all of his friends? hopefully not. as far as the smaller shows and bar shows go, some more variety is really all i want. i got tired of going to the bar shows/cheaper shows and feeling like i was in a cartoon of a hippie jamband show. lets get some jamtronica. where is moltiz? lets get some jazz. we have a fully active free jazz scene less than an hours drive from TXR in sf/east bay. lets get some heavier music. loud stoner rock would be awesome in that little room. ticket prices for most of those types of bands are low enough you could double them for TXR and it would still be a reasonable ticket - would love to see bands like earth, sleep, melvins, electric wizard, etc. there is a rapidly growing movement of very popular modern psych rock. where are bands like king gizzard or kikagaku moyo? what about noise music? melt banana would absolutely annihilate that room. acid mothers temple would be fucking bonkers.

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/spirit-grateful-dead-lives-terrapin-...

Terrapin never seemed much like Levon's barn.  More of a traditionally structured booking arrangement, and the restaurant and bar are headaches Levon's Rambles didn't have to deal with.

Whatever Phil has planned, I hope the best for him.  At this point, it should be about what's least stressful and allows him the most opportunity to enjoy his life, his family and his music.  

Both Ras & Thom are incorrect.

Phil had the idea of having his own small place to play whenever he wanted long before he saw Levon's barn, and he had designs going before that.

Seeing the barn deal helped inspire he & Jill as to how it could look and feel and he made some comments about that after playing there, but he knew what he was going to do for a long time before that.

And there is no other place remotely like it so yeah, I think Shapiro is realistically the only person with the means and desire to keep the place running more or less as it has and continue to succeed. Or are there folks reading this who think they could actually do it, or think that Live Nation, Another Planet or Goldenvoice would be willing to do that? I guess the Moonalice guy could, but then it would be Moonalice playing there all the time, and then poor pyramid would actually be right for once.

And daylight, it's a nice thought that the local improv, experimental folks could play there more often, but to make the place actually work they have to be able to sell some tickets, and as good as they are those people don't sell 400 a show. Besides, just last night the Will Bernard Quartet with Jason Crosby, Reed Mathis & Ezra Lipp played there for free, and Scott Amendola has been playing some free gigs there lately as well, and that's who you're talking about.

On it goes.

Hopefully.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=the+spirit+of+the+grateful+dead+lives+...

The Spirit Of The Grateful Dead Lives On At Terrapin Crossroads

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The San Rafael venue, opened by bassist Phil Lesh in 2012, continues to be a popular gathering place for music fans, and a mecca for local musicians

Lily O'Brien

GRAMMYs

Nov 13, 2019 - 10:15 am

Back in the day, Marin County was the place to be if you were hip. The sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll culture that characterized and defined the mid-'60s flocked to this gloriously beautiful part of the Bay Area and settled. Among them were members of the Grateful Dead, the Bay Area band that embodied the spirit of peace, love and community. So when Phil Lesh, the Dead's bass player, opened Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael in 2012, it quickly became a unique and popular gathering place, and a mecca for local musicians.  

Inspired by a visit to Levon Helm's barn in Woodstock, New York, where intimate concerts and rambling jams took place, the Lesh family decided that they wanted to create a similar experience in Marin. "It started as just a place for my dad to play locally," said singer/songwriter and guitar player Grahame Lesh, one of Phil and Jill Lesh's two sons. "He didn't really want to be touring anymore. He can come down on a Tuesday and just play for free with no notice. It's really a cool thing for him to do whenever he wants."

Terrapin soon started attracting notable players like Jackie Greene, Tim and Nicki Bluhm, members of the Mother Hips, Dan "Lebo" Lebowitz, Stu Allen, Danny Click, and many, many more who perform regularly in the lively bar that offers free music every night. The cool, casual vibe attracts an enthusiastic crowd who enjoy the eclectic mix of musicians—you never know who you will find jamming there, including Phil himself, and other members of the Terrapin Family Band.

Grahame credits Terrapin with helping to launch the careers of many local musicians, as well as his own. "It has been incredibly helpful for my band, Midnight North, and all the musicians that weren't part of the community before, or were starting to build their careers seven or eight years ago," said Grahame. He explained that anyone who wants to be part of the family of musicians just needs to reach out. "If you make yourself known, eventually you'll get a response. You might be thrown into the fire, but we'll make some fun music happen."

Formerly a restaurant called the Seafood Peddler, Terrapin is located right on the water, on the San Rafael Canal, giving it a resort-like ambience. There is an outside bar area with comfortable couches where you can lounge, get a drink and a snack, a full-service restaurant where you can dine inside or out, an inside bar area where you can enjoy live music, and the Grate Room, where bigger acts are booked.

Phil Lesh performs at Terrapin Crossroads

One of the most unique features at Terrapin is the large outdoor beach park, which they got permission to use from the city of San Rafael. In addition to a stage that frequently hosts concerts, a huge part of this area is designed for kids to run around and play, and events are planned regularly just for them. A Jack-O-Lantern Jubilee was held there recently for Halloween, with a costume party, candy, and spooky stories read to the kids by Phil Lesh. "The Lesh family really wanted to create a place that was open to every generation," said Tara Patton, Terrapin's executive director. "One of the things I am told all the time is that we really do make children feel welcome, which is so special."  

Other events include the annual Oysterfest, Ramble on Rosé, trivia night and electric, jazz or blues brunches. "We try to do something every weekend and in the nice weather, we have really big events once a month" said Patton. "We have events that are not only fun, but also educational," she added. "We love being able to do all those things for the community."

Patton expressed that both she and the Lesh family are pleased with the way things have been unfolding at Terrapin. "I love that both the deadhead community and our local community, who may not know about the [Grateful Dead] music as much, meld together into one organic group of people who are all enjoying the same thing. Our mission is about making sure there is something to accommodate everyone. So if you are a young family or a music lover or a couple looking for a romantic night—we offer all of those things in one place."

And it's working. Seven years in, Terrapin has become a bustling Marin establishment, welcoming entire generations of families, and visitors from all over the world who want to experience the Grateful Dead vibe. "It's crazy, and it's a really unique thing, said Grahame about the eternal draw of the now-defunct band. "This weird band that never really had any hits is still such a huge cultural force in 2019. People just want to come and experience something like it, even now."

Ultimately, the heartbeat of Terrapin Crossroads is found in the music, and the strong community it has created. "I don't think what has happened at Terrapin happens all that often," said Grahame. "Music is a magical thing and it's a great glue. I think we got lucky with meeting the people we did, and all of these folks wanting to be a part of it."

IMHO

The bar often has (way) better shows than the grate room

and the park can really rock

The local yuppie family stuff is also cool as  I love seeing kids smiling 

I do agree that more diversity and more free form would be cool 

And lyrics and nostalgia and Rock n roll history is also valuable to me

most of all, i do love seeing Phil smile,  bottom line

and if we all smile- even bigger bottom line   Wish the drive was easier but jfc it's all so much gravy 

I am very sad that it will not be "Phil's Place" any longer, but glad that Jill will be out of the picture.   Life goes on.

From an outsider's perspective, the music being brought in and the bands Phil played there kinda lost its sizzle over the last several years. People have mentioned the capacity being an issue-was the capacity only 300-350 for the outside part of the venue? Wonder why they didn't book bigger bands to that part of the venue?

Also: What happened to Salsa nights?

Good point!  I think I deserve at least a free order of TXR onion rings.

They want to sell before Phil dies. Not that it's imminent. But that's their play.

Interesting timing on that "article". The spirit of the GD lives on...and you'll find it here! Hmmmmm.....

TXR is pretty dang good but goddamn I've encountered some Class-A Marin jerkholes in that place. I suppose unavoidable given the proximity but still. 

If Shapiro did take over,

Phil still has a home base.

Without the implied responsibility.

Odd timing on that Grammy's article...? It's an ad?

That’s not an article, it’s a press release.

If Shapiro takes over, does that mean Ticketmaster?

No matter, I still say we get a keen mind involved  (Ken)  and somehow wrestle control away,

while it sounds like the place is in disarray. 

And then what ?  Well we can worry about that later

Thanks LLTD. 

 Pete, just seeing you there has been a highlight. That’s for real.

So long as Pete stays we'll be fine.

Brother makes that room happen. Mad love and thanks Pete!

The dude scratches a few names off a list and he's lionized???

HA! I kid. Pete is pretty damn cool.

And most don't even know all the real reasons why.

Sell the restaurant and retain the Grate-Room. Like the old Seafood Peddler- Palm Ballroom scenario.

Why?

LLTD 

Large Love To Dawne

ahh indeed so true, the Palm Ballroom

The Eleven played on 11/11/11 at 11:11

there was a hell of a lot of magic in that room

for a lot of reasons 

that still resonate

Yes,  good to see Tom there as well. Keeping order with a friendly smile. Always seems to be enjoying the show from his command post.

Ok this is random... back in like 2012 i was at a show with Phil Jackie and Larry in the grate room. They played can’t come down> magic bus >can’t come down. It was off the hook. There used to be a video of it which I can’t find. Anyone know the date have a link to the show or the video?  I loved this spot when it first opened traveled down from Tahoe quite a bit the first few years but then it became a little lack luster. Last show I saw there was with mike Gordon outside. Just ok and haven’t been back. Hope Phils doing alright. Little sketchy of Shapiro to be billing lockin as Phil’s 80th when his health seems to be in question. Faster we go the rounder we get!

wonder if phil will start sitting down to play the bass. might give him a few more years of playing and less pain going forward. im only 30 and i have serious trouble standing for a whole show. obviously its less tension/pain inducing when you have some space and are not packed into a crowd, but still...i dont know how the guy does it at his age...or how most musicians his age do it...many older rockers are still standing to play shows, meanwhile im over here at 30 years old barely able to stand at the end of the show, sometimes literally nauseous and dizzy the pain in so intense. now, ive got a degenerative disc in my neck, but even without that, i cant imagine standing for a whole PLF show at his age. being on your feet and moving is very different IME. standing on one spot like that causes lots of pain and tension.

and to le hammer, the question of whether or not shapiro will mean ticketmaster is a great one and probably the best observation and most important question in this thread. the idea that if shappy takes over the music will be even worse is absurd, but ticketmaster is a very real concern, especially as they experiment more with integrating predatory secondary market components into their main platform. the combo of dealing with ticket bots and this new system where ticketmaster has people "bid" on tickets, essentially creating secondary market prices within the primary market, could mean that any decent lineup at txr will be going for several hundred dollars at least.

It's too small for bots.

Youre 30 and can’t stand for a whole show?  Put down the pipe and get yourself fixed.

Barry, maybe it was 4/1/12

https://jambands.com/news/2012/04/02/phil-lesh-brings-things-full-circle...

When it comes to tickets & money anything is possible, but it's hard to imagine such a small venue using Ticketmaster. It's more likely that a new owner wanting to ramp up bookings and be more out in front of the public with advertising (TxR has never advertised their shows in any way other than their website & mailing list) would use a smaller operation like AXS, Eventbrite or Ticketweb, which I believe is owned by TM but is set up for smaller venues & is cheaper to use.

As for what type of realistic bookings a busier full-time venue like TxR would compare to, The Sweetwater is probably the closest. But if it's Shapiro, he does have deeper pockets & a longer reach than SW does so I'd expect a few more special bookings from him.

BTW, a great non-hippy show is happening in the Grate Room tonight for $20, Zigaboo Modeliste & The New Aahkesstra. There are still tix available and I bet they won't play Friend of the Devil (but if they do I bet it will be good).

I'll be at  Zigaboo. Then I'm going to ask the dishwasher for the real skinny on what's going on.

^^^
The door manager is always the last to know?

Zigaboo would be rad

peoples should attend these boutique shows.

Calm down girrrl

The busboy will generally know more dirt than the dishwasher. But Peak will know best in this case.

Zig rocked, and it was the perfect amount of people in the room.

I got there for the second set, after seeing a transcendental set from the great Joshua Redman Quartet in SF.

A great night, and a great way to catch a double-header, legends on both sides of the Golden bridge.

TxR is great, and it must remain that way.

Levon’s barn:  family owned music venue that allowed Levon to play with friends and family at his leisure.

TXR:  family owned music venue that allows Phil to play with friends and family at his leisure.

Terrapin Project: Grateful Dead Disneyland with no personal connection to a particular band member that never had a prayer of seeing the light of day.

And Phil has cited Levon’s operation and his first visit there as an inspiration.

But I’m the idiot.

If the goal was to have a cool community clubhouse to play music and keep the GD vibe going, there were surely many better options than this space.

Integrating the Levon-barn vision into a very sizable and somewhat upscale bar/restaurant operation, always seemed strange. Other than giving Jill a place to impress her friends, why take on the daily hassle.

You're not an idiot Thom, and I don't think anyone in this thread called you that, but the story that seeing Levon's place gave them the idea to open their own is incorrect. Phil had known that he was going to make his own place in Marin at least two years before he made it to Levon's.

There's no question that going there did inspire he & Jill as to a look and vibe, but they had already long known what they were going to do and had a basic design in place.

And TxR ending up where it is and what it became is IMO a classic story of taking advantage when opportunity presents itself, instead of stalling because it it isn't all just exactly perfect.

Remember folks, Phil & Jill had a settled on a site in Fairfax where they were going to build from scratch a venue that would have just been a small part-time venue & community center with no vision of a restaurant or anything as big overall as where they ended up, but the good people of Fairfax raised hell because they had visions of stinky lot-rat hippy's camping (and crapping) on their lawns and selling crap on their sidewalks. They even stalked Phil's morning walking route by putting up signs with negative messages to Phil. Pretty creepy, and so they shut down the deal, which would have been a boon to Fairfax.

Only a short time later their representative let them know that the Seafood Peddler was available because the owner was deep in tax hell, and as the story goes they went and looked at it and decided that day to just go for it. A ballsy and confident move that virtually everyone on the old zone knew immediately would suck and fail. Neither of those came true.

I immediately thought that the location was way better than the Fairfax place since TxR is tucked back off the road with no one living anywhere near it, while in Fairfax they would have been on the main drag, crawling with police and local drunken bar patrons, and only a block away from neighborhoods.

TxR is it's own little universe with virtually no hassles from anyone, and without any pre-plan Jill grew that place from scratch and made it work. The Grate Room itself isn't perfect and if they could have built a showroom from their own design I'm sure that would have been a better room, but I've always liked the Grate Room because it's so basic, just a little no frills rock hall, and I've seen countless great shows their over the past seven years. IMO the only real issue with the room from the start is that when it's packed, it's PACKED, but even then it's workable because it's so small. 

After seven years it's pretty amazing how that place has grown, with kids running around the park having fun while concert goers are smoking peacefully by the side of the parking lot or sitting by a fire pit next to the water, enjoying a drink while watching the sun go down behind Mt. Tam. In the restaurant locals hang in the bar listening to free music and people are having dinner, all while a show is raging in the showroom.

I don't think there's ever been anything remotely like it, and I hope it lasts a long time.

I talked to the dishwasher and he swears he knows nothing about the place being sold. Maybe Shatadave can elaborate?

Whiners whine, but from an ass kissers perspective:

The place is perfect warts and all ....

some amazing stuff has happened there 

people smile, and some have been blissed

As lancet points out the seafood peddler was IT   A miracle that fell on our laps

preordained blessing with this foretelling talisman 

god bless Phil AND Jill ( and grate room staff)

I'm looking forward to Jay's event this afternoon and a great evening of music, food and drinks at the bar.

I will have a good time at The TXR's next month. 

>>>set from the great Joshua Redman Quartet in SF.

lance, have u seen that piano trio ‘steel house’ that blade has been drumming for?

i’m considering checking them out next week in Stockton of all places...

To be fair, Thom's pretty much an idiot.

LOL @ Peak 

it has been a pretty overall successful experiment. and yeah, back when...who'd have thought one of the boys would have their own place like this? 

well written, as usual by lance. i like your sentiments of it being kinda tucked back, and on the water is a bonus.

wish phil love and strength and would like to see him there again, soon...

see you all in a few weeks. xo

>>>> You're not an idiot Thom, and I don't think anyone in this thread called you that,

Thom is a fucking idiot 

Truly fantastic show last night at Jay's book signing!

But I’m the idiot<<<

I don't believe you're an idiot, but you certainly act like one regarding your complete and utter lack of any assessment of criminal behavior by the POTUS.

To not even consider the possibility is beyond idiocy.

Having said that, I don't believe your idiocy defines who you are.

Having said that, said "distinction" is growing less and less meaningful in so far as how things might play out if this cold civil war goes hot.

I pray it doesn't, but such nuanced distinctions will fly out the window.

Having said all of that, I still don't believe you'll even consider the possibility that you're flat out wrong; and in light of the possible scenarios that might play out, I believe it is beyond reckless.  Unless you believe it's all just a series of "narratives"?!?

>>>lance, have u seen that piano trio ‘steel house’ that blade has been drumming for?<<<

No I haven't. I spaced their Santa Cruz show last week but really wanted to go because Brian Blade.

I saw two Redman shows over the weekend, Friday & Saturday. They played about half the same songs on Saturday but in classic fashion they were played completely differently and the Saturday show overall was so different and really better than the night before.

I love live music played by brilliant players.

I have been blessed by this place in the 15 times I've been there but people in Marin have been more blessed. The rest of us "getting there" is a clusterfuck worthy only of Grate Room shows of interest. I would love to see bar room shows but to drive a hour and half to be stuck in standing room only at the bar. No thanks! 

Bar at TC is a bunch of rich Marin divorcee's aka the valet crowd looking for a little character/personality in there lives. Apparently money couldn't buy that lol

I have Driven 70-106 minutes one way to see bar shows  at least 40 / 50 times

And to See beach park shows at least a dozen 

It's got to be 100-150' grate room shoes 

When it first opened  We never know how many more sun rises we will have 

and our legacy and esp Phil - who is no spring chicken are national treasures

The first year or two I committed to, and went to  a hell of a lot of shows and it was unsustainable

also The quality has dropped and the magic is Fewer and farther between

Love live music AND Can't vouch tour

so, just sayin, I'm no hero, just lucky and like lance,I love live music

and I HATE traffic and am super impatient   The bar shows can be superior  and way cheaper- I avoid bridge tolls as it's free on the way there , am I go home east bay route 

GTTS as you can, smile when you can and be GRATEFUL 

I see a few good ones in here... looking forward to another TXR show (hopefully with some of you) on the 6th.

Furthur also played some rehearsal shows there when it was the Seafood Peddler. Went to one of those shows and the Grate Room was set up vertically back then with the band set up to the left as you went in. That left the porch which is now back stage open to the public and the bar was at the very back of the room. I preferred that set up over the current one. Personally hate the flow of that room. For such a small place there is a constant flow of people going to the bar and then to bathrooms on the other side.

That said it was fun place to hang out when I lived in SF, but haven’t made it back since I moved to Sacramento.