Trump v. Sanders 2020

Bryen is part of a tight knit incel community based in the Saskatchewan foothills. 

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/why-bernie-sanders-is-doing-so-well-am...

Honestly, I can imagine that happening with a Trump-Sanders matchup...

Well, I wouldn't expect the outcome to be that extreme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzkUKLDQWrM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR2ML...

troll

Toasted troll

What a dignified President we have. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/484180-msnbcs-johnson-roasted-after-c...

 Baby boomers are really losing it this election. When you look at the amount of voters coming out to vote for Bernie Sanders you'd realize that you are completely wrong. Latinos, blacks, women and working citizens are speaking by the numbers and the candidate they want. If you look at any general poll he is beating trump on a general scale. He just gaining more and more ground with each win as well. You can try to get as negative as possible but he is rhe only chance we have to defeat trump. 

We should forego a general election, and instead put Bernie and Trump in a cage match to the death.

^Trump would find a way out of it like he did with Vietnam.

bernie gets the electoral and popular. 

melt. 

Trump would find a way out of it like he did with Vietnam>>>

If it is Sanders, he'll try like hell to avoid/cancel debating in the Fall. 

One sharp mind vs one lost mind.

Look at the clip from Colorado when he talks about the Oscars, he is clearly mentally ill, and it would be on full display in a debate.

^lol. pure insanity. 

you should be scared bud. we're about to nominate the only candidate that can take down your white nationalist administration. 

FYI, Trump already stated he would not debate. 
 

*Unless Hannity is moderator and it's 'fair'

communism? that's all you have? sad. 

what are your thoughts on supporting a white nationalist administration, trump bombing the middle east w/ more drone attacks than any other president, trump giving tax breaks to the 1%, attempting to kick millions off their healthcare, crimes against humanity at the southern border, shall i go on? it's endless. 

if you're likening bernie to communism, like republican bloomberg does. you're just not all that smart.

really nothing else to say, besides youre desperate as fuck to attack bernie and you have nothing that sticks, so communism hahaha; trump is going to run against the one candidate he didn't want to, and he will lose. 

With what's being spewed on this thread, it needs a good cleaning. What, er...baloney. 

Bryen favors trickle down economics.

Biden says he will beat Trump like a drum.  
 

I believe Bernie will beat Trump  like the dirty throw rug that he is. 
Feel  the rugbern!!

which of sanders policies do you find inherently communist, and how do those policies differ from ones in place in nordic social democracies?

and how do i feel about communism? marx was extremely adept at diagnosing the problems with capitalist society - he was terrible at fixing them.

>>>>>for all intensive purposes

Dude! It's "for all intents and purposes". Go back to school.

>>>>>"The goal of socialism is communism." - Vladimir Lenin

What did Lenin know about socialism? He was a communist.

Bryen, as I'm sure you must know, unless you skipped that term to tour with Jerry, most successful modern countries have economies that are a mix of socialist and capitalist policies. Socialism is not communism. 

I have heard rumblings about Sanders being another McGovern but Sanders is not McGovern and the US is a very different place than in 1972.  Importantly, much of the "silent majority" tha propelled Nixon to a landslide victory in 1972 have passed away.  The percentage of Latinos has jumped from about 5% in 1972 to over 16% today and places like Texas are only getting browner.

In national polling, Bernie tops Trump and is totally electable by any objective standard.   Everyone said that a crude, openly racist, former reality TV star  who brags on tape about grabbing women's privates couldn't win the election.  But guess what.  The rules have changed. 

Its going to be a hard fight for sure, but if you want to beat Donald Trump, you need someone who stands out from the pack, is honest as the day is long, and can energize people and generate excitement.   

Now when it comes to governing, Bernie may very well be Carter 2.0.   But that is fine in my book and much better than the status quo.  

People pretty delusional unfortunately in this thread. They do t understand what Democratic socialism is and won't listen anybody. Baby boomers are also too afraid to admit that they don't even know anything about corporate socialism. Companies like JP Morgan have been getting 13 billion dollars a year and they seem ok with that or they just had no idea that was going on. Time to wake up guys.

Ban this fuckin Troll would ya

A true testimony to our failed school systems...    communism vs socialism vs democratic socialism vs democracy vs republic vs parliamentary vs fascism on and on...

What have we really got right now???

ban bryen? for what, being a conservative?

bryen is one of the zones most essential assets - a comedic foil, a starter of debate, a provocateur...in some ways the village idiot and in some ways adding needed ideas and viewpoints to what might otherwise be very homogenous discussions. 

it would be of great benefit to all those on the left, or all those who exist outside his viewpoints, to work harder to understand the populist new right that is emerging, not just as a monolith but as its individual components - the pro-trump component, the anti trump component, the racists and white nationalists, the truly accepting and often socially liberal libertarians, the sanders/regulation sympathizers, the balls to the wall free market economic libertarians, the establishment sympathizers, the "burn it to the ground" steve bannon approach, all of it.

it will be just as crucial as understanding the populist anti establishment left that is rising alongside bernie, with just as much if not more complexity of its own, really nicely displayed in the policy/idealogical differences between the 3 true anti establishment candidates - yang, gabbard and sanders. 

if you cut away some of the absurd extremes on each side, like white nationalists/neo nazis, or those who support a 100% free market with no regulation whatsoever, on the right, and actual communists, or the militantly PC "SJW" types on the left, there are some really important key issues both sides of the rising populist coin have in common - a less interventionist or noninterventionist foreign policy/ending war on terror and regime change war, campaign finance reform/big money out of politics, legalizing cannabis and/or ending/dialing back the drug war.

there are plenty of issues both sides could work together on and bring needed reform from both left and right wing perspectives - like immigration. what if the left took control of making it easier and faster for immigrants and refugees to enter the US, get a green card, and get on an easier and faster path to citizenship, while the right took control of tightening border security, and making it more difficult both physically and legally for people to cross illegally? surely thats a compromise most reasonable people on both sides would at least enthusiastically consider?

lets not be silly - there is massive structural change we all want - anti establishment candidates have taken the presidency on the right and look to be clinching the nom on the left - regardless of whether or not you think either trump or sanders is doing, or will do anything to make the major changes i outlined above happen - for instance i think trump is taking folks for a ride who think he is a genuine populist, and maybe bry feels the same about bernie, these are major issues that will massively effect both the country and the world, that both sides of the populist, anti establishment wings of each party's electorate can in many respects, agree on. in the dynamic of left v right in the US, its constantly neck and neck, the pendulum is constantly swinging, but at this point in time, in the dynamic of populist/anti establishment vs the establishment GOP/DNC, anti establishment populism  wins the hearts and mind of average working class american citizens by a landslide.

why bicker about the things we disagree on or which cult of personality leads us, when there are major issues that almost everyone agrees on, but still are not getting done, getting gummed up in the collective gears on the DNC and GOP - end the endless wars, reform campaign finance in favor of small dollar donation or self funding, legalize cannabis/end the war on drugs?

The mining community passionately hates the left, hates democrats, there's really no negotiating to be done.

As long as the Democrats attack somebody's livelihood, they are going to fight you back!  

The left sadly demonstrates it's anti science side when it comes to raw resources, their extraction, processing, transportation, use in industry, you know, basic economics  (it's either mined or harvested side of the coin, vs service industries).   They view the left as that Vegan chick w/ the leather strapped birkenstocks w/ the leather leash / collar to her dog that attacks you for eating meat, lol  

 Trump supports those industries,  has thrown out many of the regulations (both good and bad), and it's really helped a lot of areas out economically.  They love him for that...  and it wasn't that long ago that many of these folks were democrat voting union members.  (Butte MT is a true mining town, but it historically votes democrat due to the union miners).   

Sadly, Trumps a fucking idiot and has screwed over these areas as well, particularly farmers.  This is where the Dems have their best chance at making inroads.

Otherwise, what the left needs is AM radio warriors.  There's a few NPR states out there that are blue, the rest listen to Rush or Beck, etc.  Most of the miners I work with live in very rural areas, don't have cable / satellite, and live off the AM radio, where the left has nothing...   you really want to turn the town blue, need to match the propaganda machine of the right...  especially at the local level...

Otherwise, I think saying what your for works better than saying what your against....    

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/chris-matthews-compares-sand...

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/james-carville-says-people-who-think-b...

carville is a political hack who said obama would never get elected. 

lol. woz continues to melt. 

LOL, not melting just disappointed if Bernie gets nominated because it will fuck up the Democratic Party for a decade and the country for who knows how long.

that will be how the debate is framed from now until November.

you are very likely correct on that front - but the framing of the debate as socialism v capitalism is a gross mischaracterization of bernie's ideology. its probably easier for most folks to think of bernie as a "social democrat"...imo he has really shot himself in the foot by describing himself as a "democratic socialist". by and large they are pretty much the same thing, and "social democrat" describes bernie's ideology just as well as "democratic socialist" does, but it leaves less room for confusion between communism/outright socialism and the ideals of social democracy than a term that uses the dreaded no-no word "socialist". 

the ideology bernie is advocating for is not communist, does not support a totally planned economy, and does not support any kind of workers and/or the state owning the "means of production". 

the ideology bernie is advocating for is one that is built upon the principles of representative democracy and capitalism, wherein the definition of "human rights" is expanded, the federal government takes a larger role in regulating the financial sector and environmental issues, taxes are dramatically increased for the ultra wealthy, major corporations and financial speculation to fund new social programs that are no more or less socialist than our existing social security programs.

theres a reasonable argument to be made that we cant afford these programs, that its not the place of the federal government to be instituting these programs, that these programs could have grave economic consequences down the road, or that simple government incompetence and beauracracy will prevent the successful implementation of his policies. all very reasonable arguments.

the arguments that are not reasonable are that bernie is a communist, bernie is anti capitalism or wants to end capitalism, bernie is going to turn the US into venezuela, the soviet union or cuba, or will somehow lead to a one party authoritarian state complete with gulags, public executions and a ministry of truth(the ministry of truth is, however, a real life liz warren position - https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/fighting-digital-disinformation).

I've done research online, and i have yet to find anything to convince me that any of those arguments are reasonable in the slightest. please post this information you find compelling, bryen. i have come across a decent handful of instances in bernie's early career where he endorsed or associated with outright communists or socialists, and there is a very old interview in which he expresses support for "workers owning the means of production".

what i see here is that like many young progressives, he has been interested in/sympathetic to socialism or marx, he found allies on certain issues in those types of people, and over time his ideology seems like it has settled on the nordic model, in which workers or the state do not own the means of production, there is representative 2+ party democracy, the economic model is capitalism, the government offers more social programs, and taxes are higher. bernie's position on "workers owning means of production" seems to have changed quite a bit in the 40 years or so since he was on record saying that - and thats ok. bernie's consistency is a huge strong point, but so is knowing when you are wrong, learning from it and evolving.

the closest proposed policy to "workers owning the means of production" that bernie has put forward is his proposal for mandated employee ownership of large corporations. AFAIK he has not given exact numbers on what percentage of shares they would be required to put into a workers fund, or the maximum share ownership possible, but The Next System Project conducted a poll and asked people if they supported "companies with over 250 employees to put 2 percent of their shares into a workers fund each year, up to a maximum of 50 percent, which would pay dividends out to the company’s employees," with 55% of people in support and only 20% opposing...so those numbers could be a good uninformed estimate on what the numbers in bernie's plan might turn out to be.

this would mean that over time, the employees of a large corporation could eventually own 50% of the shares in the company, effectively owning the company. this is not what "workers owning the means of production" means...workers as a whole, or within a specific industry, will not own the means of production as a whole or within that industry, the employees of a specific company would simply own 50% of the shares in the company they work for. the federal government, whether on behalf of "the establishment elites" or on behalf of "the workers/the people" does not come into play as far as corporate ownership goes whatsoever. 

this is probably bernie's "most socialist" plan. its fine if you dont like the plan, or see problems with it, but it objectively is not a plan to end capitalism or institute any kind of policy or economic system reminiscent of one party authoritarian socialism/communism - it simply takes inspiration from the very reasonable idea which is often associated with marx - that workers should have some kind of significant stake in their own lives and the decisions of the companies they work for.

Trump and his marketing people will make Bernie a communist no matter what or how articulate Bernie is. He is a cancer on the Democratic Party and needs to go but he's an egotistical ideologue and is going to run the country into the ground by not allowing someone more electable to run.

Before the fresh wave of scandal broke, James Carville, a longtime Clinton confidant and political strategist who guided Bill Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign, spoke to *Vanity Fair’*s Hive about Clinton’s chances in the 2016 presidential election and how the party of Lincoln ended up with Trump as its nominee.

The Hive: So, who is going to win the election?

James Carville: It’s hard to look at it right now and come to any other conclusion than it is going to be a pretty sizable win for the Democrats. It’s pretty hard to see anything else.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/james-carville-presidential-elec...

and is going to run the country into the ground by .

what is bernie doing to not allow someone more electable to run? its a free country, anyone can run for president without the express permission of bernard sanders.

by "not allowing someone more electable to run" do you mean offering a set of ideals and ideas with the best interest of the american people in mind, that is actually getting new voters into the process, and that the democratic electorate actually wants to vote for? damn bernie and his good, honest and popular ideas, preventing another milquetoast centrist from getting the "ugh, i guess so" vote?

who is more electable than bernie? joe biden, the guy whose best performance thus far is a hugely distant second place, and who is in dead last place in the current nationwide delegate count amongst candidates that have been able to claim any delegates so far?

bloomberg, one of the most unpopular democratic candidates in modern history, relying solely on name recognition from hundreds of millions in ad buys? its not looking like he will pick up first place in a single state.

honestly pete is probably my preferred centrist, which isnt saying much, but IMO the sad reality is that pete's sexuality could be just as much of a hindrance as bernie's economic stances in the age of trump.

bernie might not beat trump, and its a reasonable position to be certain he wont, but the idea that a candidate who is barely coherent, wildly old fashioned, has yet to come close to winning a state, and is in dead last place, or a hugely unpopular oligarch former republican/GWB supporter who is running on money and name recognition alone, could beat trump is silly. how could they beat trump if they cant even motivate their own party to vote for them?

All the best ...

"My view on economics is"

you are just as stupid as Donnie boy

and just as immature 

and likely as morally corrupt 

and as condescending / classy

you are likely more literate  but if you are a moron it don't matter 

FYI you used the wrong word / phrase up there 

by "not allowing someone more electable to run" do you mean offering a set of ideals and ideas with the best interest of the American people in mind, that is actually getting new voters into the process, and that the democratic electorate actually wants to vote for? damn bernie and his good, honest and popular ideas, preventing another milquetoast centrist from getting the "ugh, i guess so" vote?

Those are all good things, but none of his policies will get enacted and my concern is the impact his candidacy has on Senatorial races. The best chance at stopping Trump's destructive policies is taking control of the Senate.

woz is the perfect example of a centrist that can't wrap its head around what is actually happening. 

bernie isn't fucking up the dem party, unless you consider ending the massive corporate influence that runs it, and restoring power back to the people, making the democratic party the party of the people, once again. 

if you consider that "fucking up the party", then you're in the wrong party my man. go to the GOP. 

look, you support an oligarch running, so no shit you hate bernie -- but he's only taking the party in the direction the people want. fact. 

woz 

name somebody that's more electable than bernie. 

bernie has the strongest, largest, most diverse coalition. has gotten people out to vote in stronger #'s than 2008 obama #'s. 

has won every primary so far, and is the first candidate to win the first 3 primary states' pop vote, ever. 

has beaten trump head to head in every poll the last 4 years. 

bernie excites more people, more new people, brings in more people into the voting process than any other candidate. 

this is what's needed to beat trump. a political movement. 

an outdated centrist will lose to trump, again. 

Seems like Woz has just lost any kind of logic because his own ignorance. Not even worth trying to convince him. Sounds like he's actually leaning towards voting for trump. Pretty sad

There is no good Democratic candidate for the presidency. Winning the Senate is more important. Bernie won't win, IMO it's better to have a centrist lose but win the senate. That's my position. Bloomberg might have a shot, but Bernie is toxic because he will lose and taint the party. Voters will fear voting for Democratic senators because of the perceived Commie at the top of the ticket. And as I said before, Bernie would accomplish nothing as president.

Woz, you're delusional once again. That's ok. Just take a seat and watch the rest of this one play out bud. Nothing more to tell you. 

^^^ yeah that's insane man. woz prefers trump, literally, over bernie. he just posted it for all to see. 

centrists 2020 -- i'll vote blue no matter who, unless it's bernie, he's worse than trump, so i'm content w/ trump for 4 more years. 

wow. 

SC will be a major test.  If Bernie smokes it like he did Nevada (not likely),  he's really got his mojo workin'. But if Biden takes it, all eyes on super tuesday. Looks more and more like a clusterfuck till the convention anyway as nobody will have enough delegates to clinch it. Crazy election this year,  controlled madness. 2020 Dem convention might look like the fuckin' OK corral. Where's it being held ? That circus just might be your kind of zoo fellas.

The only positive I see in our process taking so long, is it doesn't allow pub superpaks to focus on and spend all their dough against one dem candidate. They have to spread it around, wasting billions. Waste away chumps

bernie has a chance of winning SC. he was down by like 30points when the campaign started. 

hes now within single digits -- a close 2nd place finish is a win in SC for bernie -- then on to super tuesday, where it will be clear he's the nominee, warren must drop out, and done. 

Unfortunately, the fact that Warren, Klobochar, and Steyer all staying in for Super Tuesday would actually just be a nod for trump. A broken convention would be the best thing in the world for republicans. There is no reason for those candidates to keep going at this point and are they are endangering the future of the country.

hahaha woz said taint

Woz is so cute

Any zoners knowledgeable enough about the SC electorate to give the zone an actual analysis please step forward. 

Former presidential candidate and math aficionado, Andrew Yang, says Bernie could get enough delegates by mid-March to be the presumptive nominee.  

Woz has a valid point. You guys who think you're making a statement by electing Bernie have to remember you're not electing a king. You're electing a president who has to get his programs through Congress. I love Bernie and voted for him in the last primary. And this groundswell is exciting and I feel it too. I wish it could be true and Bernie could produce massive changes to the country's policies. But realistically, the openness of the Democratic party has let people come in and turn it into a circular firing squad, as feared.      

You’re absolutely correct, slickrock.

Speaking for myself of course, I just really don’t give a crap about political parties. 

It's still way to early to make predictions in my opinion and Bryen's statement about the Democratic Party possibly ending is utterly ridiculous. 

>>>>remember you're not electing a king. You're electing a president who has to get his programs through Congress

Well, hopefully that will help temper the fears some have of a Sanders administration turning the country communist. 

im much more interested in the permanent shift in american politics and life that would occur as a result of nominating sanders, that very well could be set in stone if the next republican nominee to run against sanders is a true populist or libertarian like ron paul instead of the wolf in populist's clothing DJT, than i am about any specific sanders policies aside from ending the war on terror

bry, what is the purpose of the mondi link? he has been accused of some pretty horrific stuff lately. personally i have not done a deep dive to find where i stand on the issue, but im curious why you posted the link and what it means to you.

Yeah I will speak for most under 50 years of age in America; we don't care about the socialist boogeyman. The previous generation has flat worn the word out. It's broken, meaningless.

I'm with you, Bss.  I am sort of leaning to let those younger than me make the decision for the future. 

My biggest concerns lean towards local politics. 

Bry Bry Cray cray

let him get a few jollies out of / in his life

i only read maybe 10% of his blather 

Woz is afraid of change but it's happening. It's gonna be easier for you older gentleman if you just embrace it. 

>>>Well, hopefully that will help temper the fears some have of a Sanders administration turning the country communist. 

On the other hand Ken, I'm wondering if it may also keep people from turning the Senate, thinking a Republican Senate will keep Bernie in check.  

Some of us got all excited about turning the House last time, but much of their legislation, like prescription drug reform, sits on Mitch's desk. 

In my view, turning the Senate is a big part of the decisions being made.

Turn the Senate and you could hamper, but not stop, a re-elected Trump - OR - Turn the Senate, and you empower a Democratic president. 

Trump has ruined America :(

trump and the centrists have ruined america. 

bernie is trying to fix it. 

ned, we need your help. 

Don't group Centrists in with the Orange Menace. BTW if all the BernieBros had showed up at the polls in 2016 to vote against Trump we would not have Trump in the White House today. Fact.

Reagan Democrats are going to vote for Trump. 

^ They will IF Bernie gets the nomination.

you still don't get it man. we don't support centrist candidates or their policy as they don't represent the interests of the working class or poor, just like the GOP --  rather they represent the corporate interests that own them. this is fact and this is why we have trump. fact. 

have you decided who you're voting for in the primary? 

>> we don't support centrist candidates or their policy as they don't represent the interests of the working class or poor, just like the GOP <<

Welcome to Trump World....idiot.

ok, good stuff ned. 

has daddy told you who to vote for yet? 

...and yes, I have decided who I'm voting for in CO primary, and I know who I'm voting against in the general.

bloomberg? he can really troll trump on twitter. lol. 

fucking moron. 

Dude, you're coming unglued LOL.

hmm, coming from you, i accept. 

so, has daddy told you who to vote for? 

remember, you called me an idiot -- why so hostile? 

Ned, do you have anyone who represents you? Seems like your sitting on an island by yourself with no idea what you want.

>> Ned, do you have anyone who represents you? <<

Yes, lots in local and statewide seats. But, that isn't the only variable in my voting, especially for POTUS.

I assume you respect the privacy of my vote, correct?

Reagan Democrats want more wall and fewer Latinx people coming here for free shit. 

Just in case it ain't weird enough for ya,  Clint Eastwood gives his nod to Bloomberg 

ned supports an oligarch? 

pheater is smitten...cute!

too embarrassed to share. 

word. 

BullyBros lol

hahahah awesome. 

remember, you came i here calling names, as usual. 

>>>>Clint Eastwood gives his nod to Bloomberg 

Clint needs to go back to yelling at furniture.  "Do you feel lucky chair?  Well do you?"

is ned one of those guys that wont tell you who they are voting for because its "personal" and they get all uncomfortable when you ask? my dad does that.

..

^is that the oppo research? 

Clint is still backing an old, rich, white guy?

Huh.

You can have the privacy of your vote, Ned. What I'm asking is do you have any real contribution to this years political election aside from trying to trash Bernie's campaign? Maybe time to just move on? He has the best chance in the general despite Woz's nonsensical theories. You don't have be a part of it but if you want to be trump as you've been sayin then maybe it's time to suck up your pride and do what's best for the country.

wait, would the farm bailout(mostly red state right?) be considered socialism? asking for a friend.

MSM machine just thrashing Bernie all over. The concerted effort here by the establishment is so painfully obvious.

SAD!

Does anyone watch 90 Day Fiancé on TLC?

No , JR.

https://www.democracynow.org/

guys, chuck rocha breaks down bernie's winning strategy and why bernie is winning the minority votes, especially latinos. 

employing real people, from the communities they're reaching out to, makes a difference. 

a campaign of the people for the people. 

this is how we stop trump. 

buckle up! 

"But Sanders' potential impact extends beyond the presidential race. A plurality of voters, 39 percent, say they will be less likely to vote for a Democrat for Congress if Sanders is the Democratic nominee and his ideas are folded into the party platform. That's nearly double the 21 percent who say they would be more likely to vote for a Democrat for Congress, while 34 percent say it wouldn’t impact their vote."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/25/bloomberg-internal-poll-claims-...

Vote Bernie, flip the House to Republican.  Just imagine Trump and Republicans controlling both houses in Congress when you're in that booth making your selection.

>> What I'm asking is do you have any real contribution to this years political election aside from trying to trash Bernie's campaign <<

I have had an open mind to ALL candidates. I have criticized candidates when I feel they deserve it (not just Bernie). Please don't misconstrue my calling out pheater for his BernieBro bully tactics to be a criticism of Bernie Sanders and his policies.

thom just remember you support white nationalism. 

ned feels bullied lol. 

grow up man. 

No, I don't feel bullied, at all. Doesn't mean you're not trying, though.

The Great Socialism Gap

Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other Americans. That’s a problem.

"Rank-and-file Democrats, as a whole, are significantly more pro-socialist than independents are. And while Republicans, conversely, are more anti-socialist than independents are, the gap between Democrats and independents, on average, is about 10 points bigger than the gap between Republicans and independents…

Democrats, perhaps because they differ from the rest of the electorate in their feelings about socialism, are bad at estimating how socialism would play in a general election. Two weeks ago, in the Yahoo News poll, a 49 percent plurality of Democrats said most, nearly all, or about half of Americans would consider voting for a presidential candidate who called himself a democratic socialist. The guess was incorrect. According to the same poll, only 35 percent of voters said they’d consider voting for such a candidate. Democrats got it wrong."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/socialism-bernie-sanders-ind...

"You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? Go ahead, make my day."

Fox News is campaigning against Bernie because they think he will win. 

That's why Thom is freaking out. 

Meanwhile thom the white supremacist is white knuckling his social security check and Medicare statements.

what

So it's Socialism for his generation, but capitalism for the rest of us? Like we're as dumb as he is.

New photographic evidence has surfaced proving Bernie was actually born in Cuba.

Crazy to see both CNN and Fox news with their claws out and going after Sanders like they are.   

Bernie Sanders looks electable in surveys — but it could be a mirage

New research suggests Sanders would drive swing voters to Trump — and need a youth turnout miracle to compensate.

We found that nominating Sanders would drive many Americans who would otherwise vote for a moderate Democrat to vote for Trump, especially otherwise Trump-skeptical Republicans.

Republicans are more likely to say they would vote for Trump if Sanders is nominated: Approximately 2 percent of Republicans choose Trump over Sanders, but desert Trump when we pit him against a more moderate Democrat like Buttigieg, Biden, or Bloomberg.

Democrats and independents are also slightly more likely to say they would vote for Trump if Sanders is nominated. Swing voters may be rare — but their choices between candidates often determine elections, and many appear to favor Trump over Sanders but not over other Democrats.

But for Sanders to do as well as a moderate Democrat against Trump in November by stimulating youth turnout, his nomination would need to boost turnout of young left-leaning voters enormously — according to our data, one in six left-leaning young people who otherwise wouldn’t vote would need to turn out because Sanders was nominated. There are good reasons to doubt that Sanders’s nomination would produce a youth turnout surge this large.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21152538/bernie-sander...

Like I said before, if the DNC is smart they'll let Bernie take the nomination and watch him crash and burn spectacularly in the fall, thus ridding themselves of the progressive caucus for a generation.  He'll probably even take down AOC with him.

Ken, Dude in the image resembles Al Franken, yes, Al Franken, really, Al Franken,  to me.

Referring to that one comedy sketch on SNL a long time ago.

Bernie.......dude has about as much chance of sent elected as McGovern. 

Bernie.......dude has about as much chance of sent elected as McGovern. 

You and Carville thought Hillary would win. 

>>like I said before, if the DNC is smart they'll let Bernie take the nomination and watch him crash and burn spectacularly in the fall, thus ridding themselves of the progressive caucus for a generation.  He'll probably even take down AOC with him.

Thom's wet dream ^

And the same idiots were saying that a black "Muslim" could never win. 

And the same idiots were saying that a black "Muslim" could never win. 
 

unfortunately the predominant racism in this country caused every positive thing he accomplished and accomplishments faring back decades prior have been reversed. I could make an argument that Obama's election ended up driving politics in this country back 50 years. I can't fathom the damage that would occur after a sanders presidency....  it's awful but true. The Citizens United ruling has created a Republican Party that is homogenous.....these people don't represent their states, just the right wing corporate infrastructure. The future of the US is bleak, the experiment in democracy is over. We failed as a nation.

You live in California, champ. Lighten up.

Lol, Woz really doesn't like blacks. Dude you should hang out with Thom.

hahahahaha woz. 

mellllllting. 

Maybe just admit that the idea of a non white majority based America makes you uncomfortable, Woz. Really kinda just a shame man.

LOL! You guys are funny, don't you think Trump was a backlash against Obama? I'm just looking at what happened. I've never voted for a Republican in my life but that's not the point. My point is that politics see. Irretrievably oriented to the right and approaching authoritarian rule. Checks and balances are rapidly being dismantled. I find it troubling and hope it changes.

And for the record I'd like nothing more than to be wrong LOL!

Bloomberg getting his ass handed to him again, IMHO.  Warren crushed him with that "kill it" abortion quip. Ouch.

Hey Turtle!  Look they found where the lotto money is going! Why anyone would authorize the government to manage more of their hard earned money is beyond me.  

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article...

Bryen is watching another Democratic party primary debate.

I'd like nothing more to be wrong LOL>>>>

Don't worry Woz, you've already been wrong about a lot of topics on this thread alone. You being wrong about a lot more things to come seems inevitable.

^bwahahahhha. 

p

trump would never legalize cannabis b/c he's owned by the pharmaceutical companies. 

haha ok. believe what you need to man. 

you think trump is a peace president.

hes bombed more sites via drone bombing than drone king obama, in less than 4 years, than in obama's full 8. 

wow. facts. 

In the same dinner conversation, the topic of marijuana legalization was brought up and Parnas told the president that legal marijuana is “the future, no matter how you look at it.”

Trump disagreed with the suggestion and mentioned statistics from Colorado, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana.

“In Colorado they have more accidents,” Trump is heard saying in the leaked audio. “It does cause an IQ problem. You lose IQ points.”

Audio of the marijuana conversation begins at 45:30 in the video released by Parnas’ attorney. Trump is not seen in the clip, but numerous national outlets have confirmed Trump’s attendance at the dinner, including Forbes, The Washington Post and The New York Times.

Trump has not openly supported marijuana legalizations

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article239715663....

you gotta justify so you can live. i get it. it's fucked up, but i get it. 

what are your thoughts on trumps tax breaks for the 1%? fucking over the working class doing so. 

what about the usmca? 

human rights violations at the border? 

Muslim ban? 

largest military budget ever? 

 

Bryen

 Bryen on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 – 09:54 pm

 

    P-Heat...what are your thoughts on leaving England?

^A classic 8 post in a row with no response. Well done lol

bry has a point

On top of his pin like head

Dem debate a bloodbath. 4 more years of shit

I'm starting to view this in another light.   Trump wins because there is no real electable democratic candidate and it's an epic shit show (but to be fair, that's how Trump won too.  I could see Bloomberg sticking around long enough like Trump did).  Senate flips to Democrats because Trump starts pissing his own party off.   Dems get elected into WH in 4 years with house and senate in hand.  If they were smart, they focus on gerrymandering within first three months ...but alas they are not.   

^^^^^Trump has another 4 years to pack the courts. No thanks.

bernie surging. 

warren must drop out -- shameful. 

the centrists are doing what they can to stop bernie and re-elect trump. 

if you support that nonsense, you support another 4 for trump. 

the dnc charged almost 2k$ for debates tickets. lol. trash. 

cant stop the political revolution. it's the only thing that defeats trump. 

Brother pyramid we all know how you feel, you're like a broken record. Question -  do you ever take off your rose colored bernie glasses and look at the situation purely objectively ?  Don't bother answering, we all know the answer is no. You really should try it sometime. Different perspectives makes one not only wiser, but more fun to debate with.

The only reason people think that there is no electable candidate is because there are so many candidates who are just dragging ass in the primary. There is not reason for Warren/klobochar/ Steyer to still be in the race and they are directly damaging and putting in danger the "electability" of any democrat the longer they stay in. The fact that the DNC rearranged rules for Bloomberg to buy his way into the election is actually just borderline criminal and once again directly puts in danger the general election. So if you don't think warren should drop out but you keep saying "I just want to beat trump", well you really don't want to beat him as much as you think. Anyone who would vote for Bloomberg is actually just part of the endangerment of another trump term, but they just don't understand that truth.

I expect chump to legalize pot before the November election, effectively killing that advantage for the dems.

its possible - but IMO that would lock him out of the "romney republican" vote, like my dad. not a fan of/didnt vote for trump, but has been right wing/GOP all their lives and may be considering casting a vote for trump they otherwise wouldnt because they see bernie as significantly worse - legalizing cannabis would find him losing all clout with those types of folks. id expect many of these people to not vote for president at all, like my dad did in 16 and i assume he is probably going to do this year, sanders or not...but legalizing cannabis would eliminate any chance trump has of getting a vote from my dad, and i assume from many others with similar perspectives.

roger stone has long been a supporter of legalization and is on record saying he tried to convince trump to legalize many times already, citing exactly the same reasoning you do - it would garner him tons of anti establishment support he might not otherwise have. if he didnt legalize when roger stone and other anti establishment nationalists/libertarians like bannon were in his inner circle, i dont think its likely it will happen now that he is surrounded by the neocon establishment. 

The Times They Are A-Changin’

Written by: Bob Dylan

Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin’
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin’
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’

Kinda hope you are right, Daylight.

"Bernie Sanders is, to put it gently, either terminally obtuse, mentally unbalanced, or dangerously dishonest.

That Sanders could’ve visited the Soviet Union during the Cold War and, with all of the evidence before him, come back extolling the country’s systems, programs, and infrastructure, reveals either stupidity on a galactic scale, certifiable delusion, or a willingness to perpetuate the greatest lie in modern history.

Sanders could’ve saved the time and expense of the trip had he instead talked to someone like Nikolai Kirsanow who, years before Sanders’s captivating trip to the Soviet Union, escaped from the NKVD. Unlike the frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination, he had absolutely no illusions about socialism and Communism. (Lenin: “The goal of socialism is communism.”) Scars and illusions are rarely compatible. Indeed, had Sanders talked to émigrés from any Soviet bloc country about “socialism,” most would’ve urgently warned, “Friend, do not go down this path. We’ve seen this movie before. It always begins with promises and hope. It never ends well.” Yet Sanders skips cheerfully down that path, seemingly oblivious to the repression, scarcity, misery, and death that his preferred system inevitably produces."

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bernie-sanders-the-most-useful-idiot/

We really do need a way to block people here.

Thom still doesn't understand what Democratic socialism means.

Plenty of working examples to be found in Europe, but thom's position illustrates the uphill battle a Bernie candidacy would face. Hi

Please do not block or ban any one for their true beliefs.  

except for the GIG President of  the Earth person.

thom's president murders children. 

and drowns kittens

bernie is e only dem that'll beat trump in PA. 

https://www.mcall.com/news/pennsylvania/capitol-ideas/mc-nws-pa-poll-pre...

Ol bern is down 20 points in SC.

Biden Maintains Lead

Sanders and Steyer jockey for second

West Long Branch, NJ – Joe Biden stays well atop the field in South Carolina, according to the third Monmouth (“Mon-muth”) University Poll of likely Democratic primary voters there. Tom Steyer and Bernie Sanders are fighting for the second spot. Biden’s wide lead in the poll is underpinned by solid support among black voters in the state.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_sc_022720/

Joe Biden sounds old.

bernie's 20 points down man.

we'll see what happens in SC, but 2nd place is fine and expected....you know that, right, thod? 

bernies up by 20 in CA, the most diverse and delegate rich state. 

smh. 

I’m looking at that chart and seeing Bernie’s support increasing by over 50% and Joe’s teetering and falling by about 8% during the measured period.

But how can that be? This is sleepy Joe’s traditional political stomping ground.

Steyer might be good for a cabinet position somewhere

Here's a popular poll da P-nutz likes to provide...

here's what Florida is showing right now in this delegate rich state.

smh

biden has 1 office in CA. hahahaha

thod you should be on the bernie bus. 

warren your first choice -- she literally has zero chance of winning. 

shameful. 

hello somebody! 

wow.

Fascism vs Socialism I guess Capitalism is dead 

Capitalism is dead - it just won't lie down. We need to figure out a third way that isn't Brave New world nanny state or 1984-style Fascism.

warren so desperate she now has a s-pac even tho 2 weeks ago she claimed to never have one. hahahaha. 

drop out, warren. shameful. 

bernie would get crushed in SC by biden by 50 points instead of the huge 20, if steyer didn't disrupt

by stealing kamala's playbook.

Not to mention bloomberg bs.

That lucky ol bern...

No, Not Sanders, Not Ever

He is not a liberal, he’s the end of liberalism.

Populists like Sanders speak as if the whole system is irredeemably corrupt. Sanders was a useless House member and has been a marginal senator because he doesn’t operate within this system or believe in this theory of change.

He believes in revolutionary mass mobilization and, once an election has been won, rule by majoritarian domination. This is how populists of left and right are ruling all over the world, and it is exactly what our founders feared most and tried hard to prevent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/opinion/bernie-sanders.html

^ Fuck off Thom.

P-nutz, how's bernie doing in Florida? lol.

Thom, you and David Brooks are saying Bernie is an apologist for totalitarianism.  From the article you linked:  "...every day we find more old quotes from Sanders apologizing for this sort of slave regime, whether in the Soviet Union, Cuba or Nicaragua."  Same characterization as in the "Bread Lines are Good" thread here.  

I don't see it that way.  Pointing out the high literacy and universal health care in other countries is only meant to shame the US for not providing the same to our people, despite our vast wealth.  I'm not sure you or Brooks are truly worried our system is going to turn into a Soviet-style managed economy and police state, or believe that's what Bernie is proposing, but sure, it makes for good right-wing talking points. 

I believe the US is going to eventually figure out what many countries already have:  that the majority of citizens support universal healthcare.  To accomplish this, Bernie's "left-wing populism" needs to express itself at the ballot box, and yes, perhaps march in the streets to be heard by their elected representatives.  That doesn't spell the end of our democratic institutions, it is the exercise of democratic rights.

Thom is a white supremacist, dude.

And he hates all things democratic and socialist except for his publicly funded retirement.

Thom doesn't know jack shit about what the founders of this country wanted lol. And who gives a shit what those rich white racist slave owning assholes wanted anyways you fucking toolbag. Go back to the golf club and talk with your buddies about how awesome conservativism is you douche wrapper 

And who gives a shit what those rich white racist slave owning assholes wanted anyways you fucking toolbag

Considering they created the most enduring and successful democracy of modern times I'd show them deference. It's also a pretty fair assesssment that Trump and Bernie are opposite sides of the same coin. Both are garbage.
 

Bernie’s new commercial with JFK is cute.

Woz now in full blown melt zone level 11.0.

His hatred for Bernie is so palpable he actually thinks slavery is democratic! Wtf

wow

can he even see straight right now?

haha

^right. lol. insanity. 

woz supports a racist, sexist, republican oligarch. 

hahaha! 

F l o r i d a

what's up in florida, thod? 

what happens when warren, klo, pete all lose their home states to bernie? 

bernie is gonna win your state as well. 

as much as I hate to say it.

NC Roy Cooper will endorse biden.

florida

north carolina 

texas

how does bernie win?

The South, including Florida, is Bernie's weakest region for sure,   But he should otherwise dominate the West Coast and do quite well in the Southwest, Rockies, Midwest, and Northeast too, which should give him enough delegates to go into the convention holding a lot of cards, if not an outright majority.

Congrats woz. You made it to my ignore list.

bernie could win texas. in the primary and general. 

just like PA, WI, MI -- we call that electability -- centrists can't say they have that against trump. 

wow. 

Yeah Bernie won't need fl. He is doing very well with the Latino vote though so you never know.

Congrats woz. You made it to my ignore list.

LOLOLOL! 

...