Isn't that the case. Folks who blame the third party candidates for "getting Trump elected" should really point the finger at the vast swath of the electorate who didn't bother to show up at all.
Or you can say that with all these people not voting it is even more important not to vote third party in the general election.
I never understand why third party voters don't want to take responsibility. Isn't that the whole point. The system is so broken that it doesn't matter which of the two mainstream candidates win.
>>> Folks who blame the third party candidates for "getting Trump elected" should really point the finger at the vast swath of the electorate who didn't bother to show up at all.
I did vote but I can totally understand people that do not want to participate in a rigged game. Until we get rid of the electoral college, and the legal bribery known as lobbying. We are doomed to choose the lesser of two corrupt idiots everytime.
>>>Do you also blame people at the black jack table who don't "play by the book" and the dealer cleans up?
Actually that's one of the reasons I play craps and not black jack.
Yes one of the reasons Gore and Hillary lost was because of third party voters. Was it the only reason - not by a long shot, but at the end of the day it's just math. In the Florida exit polls of Nader voters in the Bush-Gore election they asked who would you vote for if Nader wasn't in the race. You take the percentage of Nader voters who answered that question as Gore, and add those votes to Gore's total in Florida and he easily wins. Once again just math.
I 100% support the right of third party voters to vote for who ever the hell they want to vote for, but decisions have consequences. You can’t vote third party and then wash your hands of responsibility when the greater of two evils wins. If you didn’t vote for Hillary you helped Trump win. That is no more controversial than saying water freezes at 32 degrees.
Actually that's one of the reasons I play craps and not black jack.
Yes one of the reasons Gore and Hillary lost was because of third party voters. Was it the only reason - not by a long shot, but at the end of the day it's just math. In the Florida exit polls of Nader voters in the Bush-Gore election they asked who would you vote for if Nader wasn't in the race. You take the percentage of Nader voters who answered that question as Gore, and add those votes to Gore's total in Florida and he easily wins. Once again just math.
I 100% support the right of third party voters to vote for who ever the hell they want to vote for, but decisions have consequences. You can’t vote third party and then wash your hands of responsibility when the greater of two evils wins. If you didn’t vote for Hillary you helped Trump win. That is no more controversial than saying water freezes at 32 degrees. <<<
If one predicts water will freeze at 32 degrees, is this not due to a physical "constant" of nature?
I believe you are essentially conflating "hindsight" (being 20/20) as such.
For that matter, as nugs has alluded to, why isolate third party voters vs. a gazillion other factors that had gone a different way things might have been different?
If you blame third party voters, does that entail Comey is absolved from any "responsibility" re: midnight hour news re: email server?
I honestly don’t understand why third party voters don’t want to take any responsibility for the outcomes of elections. It isn’t just on this board. I’m a twenty year resident of San Francisco who spent three years going door to door for an environmental group, whose first and current wife worked in homeless shelters. I only say this so you know that I know A LOT of third party voters, and the one thing they all have in common is a refusal to acknowledge that who they vote for helps determine who wins an election.
Yes there are a gazillion factors, but who people vote for in an election where only one person can win is a pretty big factor. I don’t absolve Comey, but I also don’t absolve third party voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania or their supporters who encouraged them.
Just to be clear this isn’t just a lefty thing. Ross Perot was a huge factor in Clinton winning the election.
>>>>Just to be clear this isn’t just a lefty thing. Ross Perot was a huge factor in Clinton winning the election.
Good point. The third-party thing cuts both ways. Gary Johnson got way more votes than Stein and presumably, many of the Johnson supporters would have otherwise gone with the Republicans. Those Johnson votes would have effectively canceled out any Stein "spoiler effect."
Same with the 2000 Florida election. Had Gore beaten out Bush, one could have blamed the 17,000 people in that state who voted for Buchanan for tipping the election.
What I am still having trouble with is the level of scorn some cast upon third party voters who voted for their candidate compared to the far more numerous registered Democrats who didn't bother to show up for their own nominee.
Anyway, the so called "spoiler" effect can be eliminated by a simple change to the voting process to include an automatic run off between the top two candidates. Under that system, a voter would pick their top two or three candidates in order of preference. If the voters top choice isn't in the top two candidates, then their back up vote will automatically kick in. That would allow one to vote their conscience without having to worry about the lesser of two evils dynamic.
“I hate the indifferent. I believe that living means taking sides. Those who really live cannot help being a citizen and a partisan. Indifference and apathy are parasitism, perversion, not life. That is why I hate the indifferent.”
—Antonio Gramsci, Italian Philosopher, who died on this day in 1937
I honestly don’t understand why third party voters don’t want to take any responsibility for the outcomes of elections.<<<<
Perhaps you don't have a fair understanding of the true extent of one's responsibility pertaining to the outcomes of elections.
Hindsight is 20/20. Nobody really knows what will happen until the fat lady sings. Going into an election, there are only polls and media available to voters to provide any sort of indication of how a given state might go. Are you really suggesting people ought to abandon their principles and vote purely based upon polling data and pragmatic considerations?
What I am still having trouble with is the level of scorn some cast upon third party voters who voted for their candidate compared to the far more numerous registered Democrats who didn't bother to show up for their own nominee. <<<
I believe this generally has to do with cognitive dissonance in reacting to readily available information pertaining to election outcome. While the "note that is not played" (people that didn't vote) might have had a much greater impact, it's the notes that were played that get published and displayed on screens to a much greater extent. People are bombarded with 3rd party voting stats and interpretations, but much less re: those who didn't vote. Likewise, with follow-up analysis that gets re-shaped in partisan format. There are clearly partisan interests that help to shape this "false debate". In turn, people try to "make sense" out of what happened, and it's very easy for some to buy into explanations of how things could've gone had reality been different. But reality necessarily unfolds the way it does, not the way some might have hoped it may have (after the fact).
>>>>>Are you really suggesting people ought to abandon their principles and vote purely based upon polling data and pragmatic considerations?
Absolutely - that's what it's all about. Only you care about your principles. Dunno about polling data, but all votes should be purely pragmatic, IMO.<<<
When does it start & what if everybody did that?
If everyone did engage in this practice, who could even polled after the gate first opens?
I totally get 3d party vote in a state where the outcome is pre-determined. And I get the vote even in a close election because people want to vote for someone they actually like. And in some cases the difference between candidates is pretty negligible, many years it is only the Supreme Court that gets me to bother at all. However, often people vote 3d party to avenge some slight by the candidate they would otherwise vote for as the other option is clearly on the extreme far end of the political spectrum. That's a fine notion, you piss me off, you don't get my vote. But I am with Noam Chomsku that one has to consider the damage that can be done by an extreme candidate such as Trump and that voting is really about the transaction of trying to avoid suffering for fellow citizens (and residents) and not just a consequence-free exercise in self-expression. I have a whole sack full of blame for 2016 but at the end of the day I just have to accept that America, including Jill Stein voters and the Bernie-or-nobody folks, is OK with explicit racism.
>>>>>voting is really about the transaction of trying to avoid suffering for fellow citizens (and residents) and not just a consequence-free exercise in self-expression.
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child’s balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying
It's alright ma (I'm only bleeding)
Bob Dylan
Favorite version - Dylan and The Band --- Before The Flood
Chelsea Clinton is a prolific tweeter. She has been repeatedly critical of the campaign memoir by the N.Y. Times' Amy Chozick, "Chasing Hillary," shouting out to people who comment on the book: "Hi Ana Marie! ... Thank you Max ... Hi Dan! ... Hi Katy! ... Hi Jeet! ... Hi Amy! ... Hi @amychozick!"
You didn't know Jill Stein was/is a Russian shill<<<
If she was alluding to collusion within the DNC, then how is "exposing internal corruption" = "Russian shill"?
As much as we face the immediate slow motion emergency known as "President Trump", I wholeheartedly believe it's allowing those who push the buttons and pull the levers from within the DNC to continue unabated. It's still mostly business as usual. Why do super delegates STILL exist if Dems were serious about reform?
When it comes down to it, Trump is providing cover for "special interests / insiders" on the Dem side; and those who point the finger at Jill Stein or GJ voters are essentially enabling the corrupted status quo / trajectory to continue. Until Dems look into the mirror and DEMAND substantial change, they're also a part of the problem.
I assume she will run forever as "Former City Council-woman and Perennial Green Party Candidate Jill Stein". But she's not wrong that the US has also meddled in elections. We have done a lot of dirty shit in 250 years or whatever it is. That said, I expect any country to whom that is happening to try to publicly investigate the where what how and strengthen their democratic systems, including trying to educate citizenry (to educate themselves). Stein's insistence that she doesn't know that Russia interfered is similar to the answers I get from my buddy who ONLY reads RT and believes every conspiracy under the sun except that Russia employs sophisticated propaganda against US targets. You could show him a handwritten memoir entitled "How I meddled in the US election" written by Putin in blood on live TV and notarized by the Pope and he would say there is no evidence that it happened because he hasn't seen it (because he only reads RT). He also thinks that George Soros is a major right winger because RT tells him so (Russia hates him because he's an eastern European who backs pro-democracy causes that are often at odds with Russian interests). He and my truther friends love them some Jill Stein.
Hey, Gravy. Of course I was being sarcastic. I never thought about whether you were dumb or not; I just never heard you talk about Gramsci before.Or I did and I'm the dumb one. I do forget a lot of Zone details.
Oh, it’s cool Floops. I mostly just play to the audience these days anyway, keeping my dirty side up, as it were. Haven’t really tried to have an intellectual discussion on the old DBMB for quite awhile.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
totes
totes
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
Isn't that the case. Folks
Isn't that the case. Folks who blame the third party candidates for "getting Trump elected" should really point the finger at the vast swath of the electorate who didn't bother to show up at all.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
Or you can say that with all
Or you can say that with all these people not voting it is even more important not to vote third party in the general election.
I never understand why third party voters don't want to take responsibility. Isn't that the whole point. The system is so broken that it doesn't matter which of the two mainstream candidates win.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Without a net
>>> Folks who blame the third
>>> Folks who blame the third party candidates for "getting Trump elected" should really point the finger at the vast swath of the electorate who didn't bother to show up at all.
Fuck all that nonsense...
Russia got BigMac Donald elected.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Sans Souci
I did vote but I can totally
I did vote but I can totally understand people that do not want to participate in a rigged game. Until we get rid of the electoral college, and the legal bribery known as lobbying. We are doomed to choose the lesser of two corrupt idiots everytime.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
Or you can say that with all
Or you can say that with all these people not voting it is even more important not to vote third party in the general election<<<
Do you also blame people at the black jack table who don't "play by the book" and the dealer cleans up?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
>>>Do you also blame people
>>>Do you also blame people at the black jack table who don't "play by the book" and the dealer cleans up?
Actually that's one of the reasons I play craps and not black jack.
Yes one of the reasons Gore and Hillary lost was because of third party voters. Was it the only reason - not by a long shot, but at the end of the day it's just math. In the Florida exit polls of Nader voters in the Bush-Gore election they asked who would you vote for if Nader wasn't in the race. You take the percentage of Nader voters who answered that question as Gore, and add those votes to Gore's total in Florida and he easily wins. Once again just math.
I 100% support the right of third party voters to vote for who ever the hell they want to vote for, but decisions have consequences. You can’t vote third party and then wash your hands of responsibility when the greater of two evils wins. If you didn’t vote for Hillary you helped Trump win. That is no more controversial than saying water freezes at 32 degrees.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: The Eggman
Do you also blame people at
Do you also blame people at the black jack table who don't "play by the book" and the dealer cleans up?))))))))))))))))
I absolutely do. Play by the book or go play slots!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Oaksterdam Dan
Keep crying over the election
Keep crying over the election that was so close you could logically blame in on 20 different things.
Meanwhile it will take a generation or two to undo what Trump & Mitch McConnell have done in the courts.
How about blaming 55 million Americans for voting for Orange Idiot
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>>>>Do you also blame people
>>>>>Do you also blame people at the black jack table who don't "play by the book" and the dealer cleans up?))))))))))))))))
I absolutely do. Play by the book or go play slots! <<<<<<
management is amused
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: TommyGutt
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Arizona apparently doesn't
Arizona apparently doesn't give a shit.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
Actually that's one of the
Actually that's one of the reasons I play craps and not black jack.
Yes one of the reasons Gore and Hillary lost was because of third party voters. Was it the only reason - not by a long shot, but at the end of the day it's just math. In the Florida exit polls of Nader voters in the Bush-Gore election they asked who would you vote for if Nader wasn't in the race. You take the percentage of Nader voters who answered that question as Gore, and add those votes to Gore's total in Florida and he easily wins. Once again just math.
I 100% support the right of third party voters to vote for who ever the hell they want to vote for, but decisions have consequences. You can’t vote third party and then wash your hands of responsibility when the greater of two evils wins. If you didn’t vote for Hillary you helped Trump win. That is no more controversial than saying water freezes at 32 degrees. <<<
If one predicts water will freeze at 32 degrees, is this not due to a physical "constant" of nature?
I believe you are essentially conflating "hindsight" (being 20/20) as such.
For that matter, as nugs has alluded to, why isolate third party voters vs. a gazillion other factors that had gone a different way things might have been different?
If you blame third party voters, does that entail Comey is absolved from any "responsibility" re: midnight hour news re: email server?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: El Nino
I honestly don’t understand
I honestly don’t understand why third party voters don’t want to take any responsibility for the outcomes of elections. It isn’t just on this board. I’m a twenty year resident of San Francisco who spent three years going door to door for an environmental group, whose first and current wife worked in homeless shelters. I only say this so you know that I know A LOT of third party voters, and the one thing they all have in common is a refusal to acknowledge that who they vote for helps determine who wins an election.
Yes there are a gazillion factors, but who people vote for in an election where only one person can win is a pretty big factor. I don’t absolve Comey, but I also don’t absolve third party voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania or their supporters who encouraged them.
Just to be clear this isn’t just a lefty thing. Ross Perot was a huge factor in Clinton winning the election.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Ken D.
>>>>Just to be clear this isn
>>>>Just to be clear this isn’t just a lefty thing. Ross Perot was a huge factor in Clinton winning the election.
Good point. The third-party thing cuts both ways. Gary Johnson got way more votes than Stein and presumably, many of the Johnson supporters would have otherwise gone with the Republicans. Those Johnson votes would have effectively canceled out any Stein "spoiler effect."
Same with the 2000 Florida election. Had Gore beaten out Bush, one could have blamed the 17,000 people in that state who voted for Buchanan for tipping the election.
What I am still having trouble with is the level of scorn some cast upon third party voters who voted for their candidate compared to the far more numerous registered Democrats who didn't bother to show up for their own nominee.
Anyway, the so called "spoiler" effect can be eliminated by a simple change to the voting process to include an automatic run off between the top two candidates. Under that system, a voter would pick their top two or three candidates in order of preference. If the voters top choice isn't in the top two candidates, then their back up vote will automatically kick in. That would allow one to vote their conscience without having to worry about the lesser of two evils dynamic.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
What are Democrats selling?
What are Democrats selling?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: W. Claude Dukenfield
^Higher taxes and open
Higher taxes and open borders.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
“I hate the indifferent. I
“I hate the indifferent. I believe that living means taking sides. Those who really live cannot help being a citizen and a partisan. Indifference and apathy are parasitism, perversion, not life. That is why I hate the indifferent.”
—Antonio Gramsci, Italian Philosopher, who died on this day in 1937
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
Gravy quoting Gramsci?!
Gravy quoting Gramsci?!
Now I've seen everything.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
That's funny, Mule, because
That's funny, Mule, because my taxes go up under the Republican tax cut. Guess I'm not rich enough for the Republican tax cut
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Jay
>>>Actually that's one of the
>>>Actually that's one of the reasons I play craps
Nice. I go a couple times a year... last night being one of them. Left after an hour and was up $149. I'll take it.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
I honestly don’t understand
I honestly don’t understand why third party voters don’t want to take any responsibility for the outcomes of elections.<<<<
Perhaps you don't have a fair understanding of the true extent of one's responsibility pertaining to the outcomes of elections.
Hindsight is 20/20. Nobody really knows what will happen until the fat lady sings. Going into an election, there are only polls and media available to voters to provide any sort of indication of how a given state might go. Are you really suggesting people ought to abandon their principles and vote purely based upon polling data and pragmatic considerations?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>Are you really
>>>>>Are you really suggesting people ought to abandon their principles and vote purely based upon polling data and pragmatic considerations?
Absolutely - that's what it's all about. Only you care about your principles. Dunno about polling data, but all votes should be purely pragmatic, IMO.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
What I am still having
What I am still having trouble with is the level of scorn some cast upon third party voters who voted for their candidate compared to the far more numerous registered Democrats who didn't bother to show up for their own nominee. <<<
I believe this generally has to do with cognitive dissonance in reacting to readily available information pertaining to election outcome. While the "note that is not played" (people that didn't vote) might have had a much greater impact, it's the notes that were played that get published and displayed on screens to a much greater extent. People are bombarded with 3rd party voting stats and interpretations, but much less re: those who didn't vote. Likewise, with follow-up analysis that gets re-shaped in partisan format. There are clearly partisan interests that help to shape this "false debate". In turn, people try to "make sense" out of what happened, and it's very easy for some to buy into explanations of how things could've gone had reality been different. But reality necessarily unfolds the way it does, not the way some might have hoped it may have (after the fact).
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
>>>>>Are you really
>>>>>Are you really suggesting people ought to abandon their principles and vote purely based upon polling data and pragmatic considerations?
Absolutely - that's what it's all about. Only you care about your principles. Dunno about polling data, but all votes should be purely pragmatic, IMO.<<<
When does it start & what if everybody did that?
If everyone did engage in this practice, who could even polled after the gate first opens?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Next potus has to survive
Next potus has to survive "The Running Man".
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
Floops, I’m not as dumb as
I went here for Keats. It’s poetic that it was the anniversary of Gramsci’s death, too.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I totally get 3d party vote
I totally get 3d party vote in a state where the outcome is pre-determined. And I get the vote even in a close election because people want to vote for someone they actually like. And in some cases the difference between candidates is pretty negligible, many years it is only the Supreme Court that gets me to bother at all. However, often people vote 3d party to avenge some slight by the candidate they would otherwise vote for as the other option is clearly on the extreme far end of the political spectrum. That's a fine notion, you piss me off, you don't get my vote. But I am with Noam Chomsku that one has to consider the damage that can be done by an extreme candidate such as Trump and that voting is really about the transaction of trying to avoid suffering for fellow citizens (and residents) and not just a consequence-free exercise in self-expression. I have a whole sack full of blame for 2016 but at the end of the day I just have to accept that America, including Jill Stein voters and the Bernie-or-nobody folks, is OK with explicit racism.
https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting/
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>voting is really about
>>>>>voting is really about the transaction of trying to avoid suffering for fellow citizens (and residents) and not just a consequence-free exercise in self-expression.
This.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
I voted for Stein in
I voted for Stein in California. If you are upset about this, let me know how I can make it up to you.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Johnny D
^No worries, Knotseau. Our
^No worries, Knotseau. Our votes never seem to count from CA anyway.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Rasputin O'Leary
Apathy, ingrained early
Apathy, ingrained early
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child’s balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying
It's alright ma (I'm only bleeding)
Bob Dylan
Favorite version - Dylan and The Band --- Before The Flood
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Without a net
>>> I voted for Stein in
>>> I voted for Stein in California. If you are upset about this, let me know how I can make it up to you.
Not upset Slack...
You've said how busy you are and how your vote doesn't count in California.
It's cool...
You didn't know Jill Stein was/is a Russian shill.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Chelsea Clinton is a prolific
https://www.axios.com/hillary-bill-chelsea-clinton-foundation-spring-7a4...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Without a net
Slack - you're sounding kinda
Slack - you're sounding kinda Foxnewsy bruh.
You know? Deflecting and shit...
Jill Stein also won't cooperate with the Senate Intel Committees request for Campaign documents.
But it's cool, you're busy.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
>> you're sounding kinda
>> you're sounding kinda Foxnewsy
>> shill
> *smiling* <
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: 19.5 Degrees
You didn't know Jill Stein
You didn't know Jill Stein was/is a Russian shill<<<
If she was alluding to collusion within the DNC, then how is "exposing internal corruption" = "Russian shill"?
As much as we face the immediate slow motion emergency known as "President Trump", I wholeheartedly believe it's allowing those who push the buttons and pull the levers from within the DNC to continue unabated. It's still mostly business as usual. Why do super delegates STILL exist if Dems were serious about reform?
When it comes down to it, Trump is providing cover for "special interests / insiders" on the Dem side; and those who point the finger at Jill Stein or GJ voters are essentially enabling the corrupted status quo / trajectory to continue. Until Dems look into the mirror and DEMAND substantial change, they're also a part of the problem.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
Jill Stein was a name on the
Jill Stein was a name on the ballot. I didn't hear the news call her a Russian agent until after the election.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Def. High
>>>>>Jill Stein was a name on
>>>>>Jill Stein was a name on the ballot
Enough of a reason to get your vote?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
I didn't hear her call
I didn't hear her call Mexicans rapists. Maybe she did. MSNBC only told me about Donald.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Without a net
It's cool bro's...
It's cool bro's...
The election is over.
No need for the excuses why you voted for her.
We'll revisit the "The Incredible Tale of Jill Stein"
Once the intelligence stuff is served.
Stay tuned!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: _
Very gibberish. Much sad.
Very gibberish.
Much sad.
https://i.imgur.com/gVRFwXH.gifv
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Hitchhiker awaiting "true call"
>>>>We'll revisit the "The
>>>>We'll revisit the "The Incredible Tale of Jill Stein"
Why? Is she running again?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Alias
I assume she will run forever
I assume she will run forever as "Former City Council-woman and Perennial Green Party Candidate Jill Stein". But she's not wrong that the US has also meddled in elections. We have done a lot of dirty shit in 250 years or whatever it is. That said, I expect any country to whom that is happening to try to publicly investigate the where what how and strengthen their democratic systems, including trying to educate citizenry (to educate themselves). Stein's insistence that she doesn't know that Russia interfered is similar to the answers I get from my buddy who ONLY reads RT and believes every conspiracy under the sun except that Russia employs sophisticated propaganda against US targets. You could show him a handwritten memoir entitled "How I meddled in the US election" written by Putin in blood on live TV and notarized by the Pope and he would say there is no evidence that it happened because he hasn't seen it (because he only reads RT). He also thinks that George Soros is a major right winger because RT tells him so (Russia hates him because he's an eastern European who backs pro-democracy causes that are often at odds with Russian interests). He and my truther friends love them some Jill Stein.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Imagine
Hey, Gravy. Of course I was
Hey, Gravy. Of course I was being sarcastic. I never thought about whether you were dumb or not; I just never heard you talk about Gramsci before.Or I did and I'm the dumb one. I do forget a lot of Zone details.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: GravyTrain
Oh, it’s cool Floops. I
Oh, it’s cool Floops. I mostly just play to the audience these days anyway, keeping my dirty side up, as it were. Haven’t really tried to have an intellectual discussion on the old DBMB for quite awhile.