Viva will be all about respect and civility for all.

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I am looking forward to Viva showing nothing but respect and civility for all people living in this wonderful world.  No matter what the color of their skin may be.  A couple of days ago someone made the comment: calling a spade a spade.  A couple of Zoners didn't think that was a racist comment.  Well it is:

What happens when a perfectly innocuous phrase takes on a more sinister meaning over time?

Case in point, the expression "to call a spade a spade." For almost half a millennium, the phrase has served as a demand to "tell it like it is." It is only in the past century that the phrase began to acquire a negative, racial overtone.

Historians trace the origins of the expression to the Greek phrase "to call a fig a fig and a trough a trough." Exactly who was the first author of "to call a trough a trough" is lost to history. Some attribute it to Aristophanes, while others attribute it to the playwright Menander. The Greek historian Plutarch (who died in A.D. 120) used it in Moralia. The blogger Matt Colvin, who has a Ph.D. in Greek literature, recently pointed out that the original Greek expression was very likely vulgar in nature and that the "figs" and "troughs" in question were double entendres.

Erasmus, the renowned humanist and classical scholar, translated the phrase "to call a fig a fig and a trough a trough" from Greek to Latin. And in so doing he dramatically changed the phrase to "call a spade a spade." (This may have been an incorrect translation but seems more likely to have been a creative interpretation and a deliberate choice.) "Spade" stuck because of Erasmus' considerable influence in European intellectual circles, writes the University of Vermont's Wolfgang Mieder in his 2002 case study Call a Spade a Spade: From Classical Phrase to Racial Slur.

"To call a spade a spade" entered the English language when Nicholas Udall translated Erasmus in 1542. Famous authors who have used it in their works include Charles Dickens and W. Somerset Maugham, among others.

To be clear, the "spade" in the Erasmus translation has nothing to do with a deck of cards, but rather the gardening tool. In fact, one form of the expression that emerged later was "to call a spade a bloody shovel." The early usages of the word "spade" did not refer to either race or skin color.

One of the more famous mentions of the phrase came in Oscar Wilde's 1895 play The Importance of Being Earnest:

CECILY:

"Do you suggest, Miss Fairfax, that I entrapped Ernest into an engagement? How dare you? This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade."

GWENDOLEN:

[Satirically.] "I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different."

Politicians and commentators have also frequently used the expression. After returning to the United States after World War I, the scholar and civil rights activist W.E.B. Du Bois wrote in his famous 1919 editorial "Returning Soldiers" about the struggles of African-American men:

"We stand again to look America squarely in the face and call a spade a spade. We sing: This country of ours, despite all its better souls have done and dreamed, is yet a shameful land."

In the late 1920s during the Harlem Renaissance, "spade" began to evolve into code for a black person, according to Patricia T. O'Connor and Stewart Kellerman's book Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English Language. The Oxford English Dictionary says the first appearance of the word spade as a reference to blackness was in Claude McKay's 1928 novel Home to Harlem, which was notable for its depictions of street life in Harlem in the 1920s. "Jake is such a fool spade," wrote McKay. "Don't know how to handle the womens." Fellow Harlem Renaissance writer Wallace Thurman then used the word in his novel The Blacker The Berry: A Novel of Negro Life, a widely read and notable work that explored prejudice within the African-American community. "Wonder where all the spades keep themselves?" one of Thurman's characters asks. It was also in the 1920s that the "spade" in question began to refer to the spade found on playing cards.

The word would change further in the years to come. Eventually, the phrase "black as the ace of spades" also became widely used, further strengthening the association between spades and playing cards.

Wolfgang Mieder notes that in the fourth edition of The American Language, H.L. Mencken's famous book about language in the United States, "spade" is listed as one of the "opprobrious" names for "Negroes" (along with "Zulu," "skunk" and many other words that I can't print here). Robert L. Chapman struck a similar note in his Thesaurus of American Slang (1989). "All these terms will give deep offense if used by nonblacks," warned Chapman, listing "spade" in a group that included words like blackbird, shade, shadow, skillet and smoke.

The British author Colin MacInnes, who was white, frequently used the term in novels like City of Spades (1957) and Absolute Beginners (1959) about the multiracial, multicultural London of the 1950s and '60s. MacInnes has been criticized for his exotification and sexualization of black culture in his books. MacInnes also coined the cringeworthy word "spadelet" to refer to black infants.

As with many other racialized terms, there were efforts to reclaim the word after it had become a slur. Four years after Malcolm X was killed in 1965, poet Ted Joans eulogized him in his poem "My Ace of Spades." The artist David Hammons also explored the negative connotations to the word in his 1973 sculpture "Spade With Chains." Hammons once told an interviewer that he began to incorporate spades into his work because "I was called a spade once, and I didn't know what it meant ... so I took the shape and started painting it." And a character in 2009's Black Dynamite (a spoof of the blaxploitation films of the 1970s) tells a rival that he's "blacker than the ace of spades and more militant than you."

So what does all of this mean for people who want to, well, "call a spade a spade"? I urge caution. Mieder concludes his case study with the argument that "to call a spade a spade" should be retired from modern usage: "Rather than taking the chance of unintentionally offending someone or of being misunderstood, it is best to relinquish the old innocuous proverbial expression all together."

 

I simply wanted to make sure we were all clear on this.  Would you walk into an all black Church, and use this type of phrase?  My guess would be no.  

Pretty sure we are all cool with me giving the Italians the shit they deserve though, so let's not get too crazy here. 

I see you've been up all night thinking about your next "Great Thursday's thread"

image_39.jpg..

Get a life, man.

Social justice crusader Tulsa is kind of a mess, huh?

Agreed, Mark!

Jazfish I am simply pointing out a racist term that was misunderstood by a couple of Zoners.  What is wrong with that?  

just enjoy the gay porn..

Mark I am all about social justice.  You can't let things like this slide on a dbmb, or soon people would be making really offensive posts.  

Mouth breather thread

Not taking the time to read the jabber in the OP.

Interesting post, Chris. A lot of historical context there. Thanks.

Fuck You

Respect. Civility. Keep it kind. 

 

You did a lot more reading and research than I did, Chris. Thank you. It's too soon for me to stop learning.

>>Respect. Civility. Keep it kind.

 

Bears repeating.

Program South Park

Episode S20 E5

Title The Douche and the Danish

Character Dildo Swaggins, Colorado based internet troll

"This is where South Park’s ingenious writing really gets shown. Correlations can be seen between the trolls movement with any of these minority groups. They were enjoying their lives until they started getting marginalized and hated on. Once their existence was threatened, the trolls needed to band together in order to survive. The personal story of Dildo Swaggins helped to make the viewer empathize with the trolls. It really brings up the question if trolls are really bad people or if they are just misunderstood in society?"

 

 

I watched this episode again last night and my question is - I wonder which "Colorado troll" the character of Dildo Swaggins was based on?

Does anyone here know?

 

I still scratch my head at people who don't have an internal barometer, or those who refuse to stop even when asked. None of are perfect and we all have our moments, but jeez.

...image_40.jpg...

"Well it is"

Actually, well, no.

To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression which refers to calling something "as it is",[1] that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant. The idiom originates in the classical Greek of Plutarch's Apophthegmata Laconica, and was introduced into the English language in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of the Apophthegmes, where Erasmus had seemingly replaced Plutarch's images of "trough" and "fig" with the more familiar "spade." The idiom has appeared in many literary and popular works, including those of Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, W. Somerset Maugham, and Jonathan Swift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_a_spade_a_spade

So unless you want to call Erasamus, Wilde, Dickens, Maugham, and Swift "racists", I think you need to reassess here.

One of the banes of contemporary times is an over sensitivity to what constitutes "racism".  It has poisoned our culture and hurt our ability to communicate honestly.  And posts like this not only don't help, they contribute to the problem.

Lighten up.  It'll help everybody.

Just to be clear, I would not walk into an all black church and call someone a shovel. I just wouldn't do it.

But when black folks call each other n****r, I guess that's ok. Go figure.

Thom, I heard Megyn Kelly say the same thing on Fresh Air yesterday. She's sexy, in a harsh and Spartan sort of way.

The term "gyped off" is a slur against Gypsies. It's slightly better than saying "Jewed."

megyn kelly's hot

Thom, you didn't read Chris' whole post, did you?

So unless you want to call Erasamus, Wilde, Dickens, Maugham, and Swift "racists", I think you need to reassess here.

He did a nice job citing all these sources and showing, with more contemporary examples, how the meaning has continued to evolve. Really interesting to think about en toto.

Morons can haz Google?

Until the person who posted this thread can express his thoughts about women appropriately, then he can kindly just be quiet. You bring no solutions to the new Zone, only more of the same garbage.

Ok , true ...language changes and evolves. For me , if enough people are hurt by any , evolved phrase or word , then as a decent person its on me to apologize , refrain from its use and educate others . Humility is the key to success in life . People get it wrong sometimes , thats OK , make amends and move on . One learns best through mistakes . Humility will allow me to spread my genetic material more easily and to do more business with others .

I hear ya Chris! Stopped staying that phrase years ago.

When I dropped LSD for the first time (teenager) I came to an epiphany that I didn't want to be a racist like my father. He of baby boomer generation not racist to people in person but says racists things while watching sports and complaining about the Mexicans in California yet he choose to live in a farming community. WTF!

11 of 12 Jurors in the Scott case where white and 25% of the population was black in the county but only 8.0 of the jury was...SAD! 

Tulsa, I'm watching you.

 

*toke*

Chris,

 

As one of the Zoners who called you out, I would like to apologize.  I didn't realize that it is considered by some to be a racist insult.


However, given the context of the thread that this appeared in, the "Spade a spade" comment felt pretty low on the insult list, IMHO.


That's why I was a bit taken aback by your offense at that particular phrase.


Good education for me.  (I'm still not sure about the "calling a kettle black" thing, though).

 

Best,

John

John if you were working in a kitchen and you were the only white person there would you use the phrase: like the pot calling the kettle black?  I doubt it.  This is when you know a phrase is racist.  

 

 

No I am not calling you out.  Simply pointing out that phrases like this keep racism alive.  Even if the person saying it is not racist at all.  

Dishwashers are racist. 

So, what's with the kitchen comment? Do only black people work in kitchens?

Josh,

We're watching you!

 

*stroke*

Interesting point.

 

I'll discuss this with my colleagues tomorrow.

if you were working in a kitchen and you were the only white person there you would use the phrase:     llamar al pan pan y al vino vino

or "Hurry the fuck up with that order, holmes!"

^I heard that!

So, what's the kitchen comment>>>>>

 

 

There are pots and kettles in kitchens.  Duh, Nice try however.  Think before you post.  You are showing yourself to be a racist by even thinking that way.  

Dude, I TOTALLY missed that!

JohnnyD I think many Zoners miss some of my subtle observations.  That is Okay.  Someone needs to have the brains around here.  LOL

**** im watching all of you *******

I think the "pot calling the kettle black" refers to them being equally black. It just means they are the same - "two peas in a pod" - though the pot doesn't see it. Colorism, perhaps. Not racist.

^Mixing metaphors is a risky business, dancing.

 

My wife reminds me of such dangers all the time.

Is it just me or does the new place look great, but is on the boring side? No hate just hope it picks up speed

^Be the change, sunshine.

<<<<Social justice crusader Tulsa is kind of a mess, huh?

 

 

we have a winner.

I feel like some of the key players are missing jonny and the motor just isn't firing right

I simply wanted to make sure we were all clear on this.  

I still don't think you're clear on it.  From what you posted it is not a racist term.  The author discourages its use though because of unintentionally offending people through misunderstanding of the term.

 

So its offensive because you don't know what it means and wrongly think it's racist?