Well it's not a Wino thread, but it's up and it sure looks good to see it, so I'll give my long-winded Newberry beginning of the season analysis.
I think in many ways this years team is going to be a lot like last years - inconsistent and often very poor hitting, high quality starting pitching and good defense, with the closing situation much better, so they'll win more of those 2-1, 3-2, 1-0 games they were losing late in games last year.
In my mind they start the season with significant questions from leadoff all the way through #5 in the order. Span was a failure as a leadoff hitter last year (and is barely adequate in CF); will he find his stroke again after two years it being gone, or is he just a fading talent with a weeny arm who doesn't steal bases either way?
Belt at #2 is not a quality situation. He's there because at the moment they have no one better and his on-base percentage is very good because he takes so many walks, but he's a terrible situational hitter who can't bunt and swings & misses/strikes out all the time, so he's no good at advancing runners. That means no hit-and-runs with him and no sac bunts, which means even if Span is getting on base he'll be stuck at 1st a lot because he doesn't steal many bases. Belt will get his hits and hit some HRs, but he's a good #6 or # 7 hitter on a good hitting team, not a #2 hitter.
It will be Pence to start the season at #3, and that could work well as he's been a top hitter with speed over the years, but there are serious questions he needs to answer about his age, his ability to stay healthy and the weak year he had last year - is he a fading, now injury-prone player or is he going to have a rebound season? If it's the latter that will help much of what I'm worried about, but if it's the former they're in BIG trouble there, as they have no one else even close to a quality choice.
Buster at cleanup. No sugar-coating it, he was a weak cleanup hitter last year; little to no power, especially in the 2nd half of the season, very low RBI's for a cleanup hitter, nagging injuries all season (as catchers always have) and most worrisome he was routinely being beaten by fastballs, which has always been his strength. Was last year just an off-season (the main question for most of the offense)? Can he rebound and drive the ball more consistently this year? Can he get in front of & drive those fastballs that he fouled off or just missed last year? Should a guy who's a catcher and has just turned 30 be expected to have those things happen? Buster's a great player, but this slide has been coming for a couple of years now and I seriously doubt he's a middle of the order slugger for a good team any more, but they have no one else. IMO that's trouble.
Crawford at #5 has not worked consistently in the past. He's an excellent overall player and a very clutch hitter more than a great hitter, and the pressure on him to be a consistently productive slugger at #5 is a lot to ask of him and not optimal in my opinion.
Still, on the hopeful side all of those guys have upside and there's reason to hope they'll all have rebound years this year, including Panik, who if he starts hitting consistently again, especially against all the lefties who dominated him last year, will almost certainly win back the #2 spot in the order, which would help things significantly.
On the pessimistic side of the coin, they have empty holes at both 3rd base (Nunez is not a quality starter for a winning team) and left field (Parker isn't the answer and they have absolutely no one else) and those positions are where one would look for help if the top guys are not coming through, so the pressure is REALLY on the top five to rebound offensively.
Starting pitching will be their strength, and it's a BIG strength. Cain will either do well or lose the #5 spot to Blach, who all things being equal has won that job. But he's a kid, Cain is getting $20 million even if he cleans the toilets this year, and Cain has also been a big-time hero and I think he should get this one last chance to show that at 32 with no significant arm issues or loss of velocity he can find his groove again. But I do hope they have a short leash on him and move him out if he's not getting it done.
I think the bullpen will be strong, but losing Will Smith is a major bummer. Still, I think the group will be good, Blach is going to have an effect and Melancon is going to be everything they didn't have last year.
The bench will be much better this year, and I could see Aaron Hill taking that 3rd base job if/when Nunuez keeps swinging for the fences on every pitch and striking out/flying out often, instead of swinging to get on base and using his one good asset, his great speed.
Intangibles - chemistry, coaching, manager, front office, home field advantage are all tops in the league, which is a bigger thing than usually gets credit for and has helped them in a big way all through their run of success since 2010.
So overall, at best I can see them winning 90 - 95 games and pushing the Dodgers for the division, especially if they get good production from #1 - #5 hitters, at worst 85 - 88 wins and pushing for a wildcard spot, and once again if they find themselves in the short-series playoffs they'll be looking good to take a real shot.
But that's a very long ways away, so for right now, LETS GO BUM!!! DOWN WITH THE SNAKES!!!
And as always...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And as always, thanks for your analysis, Lance. (Yes, without Wino's opening it's a little different, but at least we're on our way. Wino, don't hold back.)
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My son called me this afternoon and said he just happened to be working when Madison Bumgarner came into the hospital after his dirt bike wreck. So he got to do his xrays. I asked him if he tried working him for some tickets, but he said no.
Yeah, just what they needed. Shit, he's their best power hitter!
We'll see what happens. It's a disaster on the surface, but sometimes these type of things shake a team up and rally them together. It's not like they've been playing good baseball so far.
Now Blach gets to show what he's got, which could be a good thing long-term as Cain is looking good so there wasn't going to be an opening in the rotation for the kid. He's a good looking young lefty, and hopefully he'll be a beneficiary of Bum's misfortune. If he struggles then Tyler Beede will get a shot, and he had a strong spring and is doing real well so far in Sacramento.
As long as this isn't a career-affecting type thing they should be able to weather Bum's absence. Their main concern is still the same one they've had since last year; can they find some players who can hit, because just like last season that's what's killing them, and the guys they have now aren't the answer they need.
(Buster can't hit a fastball consistently anymore; now THAT'S a disaster!)
The way Arroyo is hitting so far at AAA they're going to have to find a spot for him on the big team soon, but it's never a good sign if a 21-year-old rookie is the guy a team is looking for to save the day. But then again, Buster wasn't too much older when he saved the day in 2010.
On it goes.
Heal up you Bum, and...
LET'S GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, and Arroyo isn't a catcher, so if he does turn out to be a great hitter he'll have a good chance to be a great hitter much longer than Buster.
Well, the number 22 has always been great for the Giants, and it looks like it will be again. Dude looks like the real deal.
And is just what they need.
And Mike Morse!!!
Holy cow.
I love that guy.
Blach looks good, and if we're lucky Span will never play another game for the Giants.
Still, with him or without him they don't have a center fielder or leadoff hitter, although Pence is an interesting if not traditional choice at leadoff. Belt is terrible at #2 and will continue to be mediocre when they finally put him back at #6 or #7 where he belongs, and no matter what they do they just don't have the big hitters in the middle of the order.
But it's a long season and they've gotten blind lucky before, we'll see if they can piece something together again.
It's real nice to see Arroyo on the big team, he looks like a big-league player. It's only been three games and it's asking a lot of a guy who's only 21 to be a difference maker, but he's got that look. His success would also mean that they could get rid of Nunez, which is a very good thing because that guy is a hack.
Lotsa' holes, lotsa' problems, but it's a looooong season and lotsa' things can happen. The front office ignored a lot of those problems and the team has paid for it, but they can rectify that by first acting aggressively right now by clearing out the mistakes like Span & Nunez, and also maybe noticing that they have had no left fielder at all. It's going to be tough for them to fill all those offensive holes, but if they're creative and willing to take some chances and they get more of their famous luck they could still make a run.
A DAMN nice win tonight.
Duck the Fodgers!!!!!!!!!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morse was just a lark this year, apparently ready to retire this off-season but while partying at Hunter Pence's wedding he was talked into coming to the Giants camp this spring, just for the hell of it.
He said no matter how he did, if he didn't make the team he'd retire. He was just starting to look good in the spring when naturally he hurt himself, but he felt good about how he was swinging so he went to extended spring training, rehabbed his hamstring and agreed to go to AAA. They called him up yesterday, put him in as a pinch-hitter in the 8th down by a run (thanks to Arroyo's two-run & first ML home run the inning before, off a flat Romo slider) and Morse blasts a HR in his first AB since 2015 to tie the game. The place went nuts. It was freakishly similar to Game 5 of the 2014 NL Championship series.
The guy brings tons of positive energy, and he's got a way of coming up huge in huge moments. KEEP THAT GUY AROUND!!!
It seems that everything I worried about in my long-winded babble up there before the season has gone as badly or worse than I feared, and the few things I thought would be strong have gone badly as well.
Right now the only bright spot is Christian Arroyo, who is showing that he's a real player, but it's bad when a 21-year-old is the guy carrying the team.
At this point I'm hoping they just bring up a couple of other young guys who are doing well in AAA and plug 'em in. I'd rather watch kids with talent play badly than guys like Nunez and Belt, who are both just bad.
Belt in particular has been awful, yet they keep plugging him in at #2 every day. He gets his one or two walks a game but strikes out on balls right down the middle on his other ABs. It amazes me that pitchers throw him anything close to off the plate; it's probably just that they're trying to put it right in the middle and that's too odd for them.
Guys I would like to see just gone right now... Brandon Belt, Eduardo Nunez, Denard Span, Derrick Law.
It's nice to see Buster hitting some shots lately, apparently he's made some adjustments in his swing to help him be quicker on fastballs. That guy is a true hero, but as the summer grinds on will it last? Or will it matter?
Arroyo got the big hit yesterday- I wouldn't call that carrying the team...but he's getting there.
Belt sucks- always has as far as I'm concerned. Never seems to come through in the clutch-- but I don't get to see most of the games.
Pretty much an off year/ rebuilding year at this point - too many problems. Sorry to be negative but I don't see them coming back from any of this - not this year.
But go go Giants
Just hope the rockies pitching implodes-- it should sooner or later.
I should have said "It's bad when a 21-year-old is the one bright spot." But Arroyo IS showing that he's got the mojo to be an impact player.
His hits have come in big, clutch spots in games, and he was completely schooled the other night by De Grom, striking out four straight times, which especially under the big lights of New York City can put many rookies in a spiral, but he comes back with a couple of solid games right after and had that huge hit yesterday. He's playing very good defense as well. When Crawford comes back this weekend Arroyo will be the starting 3rd baseman for the foreseeable future.
The only thing that might change that is if they decide to trade Panik at the deadline if they're still bouncing off the bottom in July and move Arroyo to 2nd. Panik is a fine player and I hope they keep him, but there are many teams that like him and the Giants could ream someone and get more than he's worth. They don't have much else that's worth much in a sell-mode trade. Pense might be worth something good if he's playing well at the deadline, but they are going to have to make some hard decisions if they want to stay competitive over time. They've got a few good prospects but not many and they already have a huge payroll because of buying so many free agent pitchers lately (and that damned extension they gave to Belt a couple of years ago) so they can't hope for many quick fixes by free agency.
As for Belt, he's always been a good player to have as long as he doesn't have to be relied on as a front-line slugger. He's an excellent defensive 1st baseman, runs the bases well, has power and he does walk a ton. But the Giants don't have the 3/4/5 sluggers to cover for a hitter like Belt, and since last July his hitting has really gone in the tank. They might be able to get something for him in a trade, but not nearly as much as they could have three years ago, when they should have traded him instead of signing him to an extension. But the organization has always loved him and it seems they have always believed he would blossom into a true top line power hitter.
Wrong.
I think they should look to sell if they're still sucking after the All-Star game, but I'm also not completely giving up on this year yet. The pitchers are better than they've been and there are too many good ballplayers on this team for them to be this bad. Plus it's baseball, where anything can happen.
nice little win streak... enjoyed watching the last few innings after the warriors game. It looked like it was going to be some ole Giants torture, but then it was a one two three 9th. good stuff.
If Posey gets suspended or injured, really hurts the team. Strickland is a big boy that can take care of himself. He took it upon himself to hit harper(who is a douche) and no-one doubted he could handle himself. Most of the team on the field stayed out of it.
Good thing that pussy does not have to throw helmets for a living. And Strickland cocked him one good. Fuck him. He wants old school? He got it.
I think Strick a little weak on why he hit him though. He surely had the best of him in 2014 playoffs. But suck it up and get him next time. I think a lot of that was going thru Posey's and the others minds.
I don't think Strick should get suspended but he probably will. Harper should sit for a week for throwing the helmet and charging the mound. He hit him on the butt for christs sake. Harper, you still win until you charge the mound. You should have smiled at him to rub in the 2 HRs. THAT would have been praise-worthy.
Well, I for one am glad Posey did not jump in and get injured or suspended. It was between the 2. Buster said what he did to protect Bochy and/or others from reprimand. If they knew Bochy knew, he might get fined or suspended also.
I was planning on stepping back in here at some point soon, expecting a trade or two to give a reason for a reckoning here after this epic fall, but damn, they're going to sign the Panda back? That got my attention.
Of all the things that would have surprised me about this season, telling me that the team would bring Pablo Sandoval back would have been right at the top of the list.
It's a minor league contract that costs them nothing, he'll certainly start at AAA (or maybe even AA for an added dose of humility) and they stink to high heaven and are at the very bottom of the league, so I guess why not, but it still seems odd... gimmicky, and a little desperate.
Then again, they've at least on the short end found some gold this year picking this relief pitcher Sam Dyson off the same scrap heap of stink. He's made some mechanical changes and is pitching really well for them right now - another save today - and they may have found something really good for free there, so maybe they're hoping for the same thing with Fat Panda.
Still, a much as that guy did for the San Francisco Giants, and he did A LOT, after the way he left the team I would/will be lukewarm at best to see him back at 3rd & King in in a Giants uniform, even for just a wave.
Unless of course he regains the magic (In a bottle??? Again???) and starts hitting ropes, then what the hell, let's go Giants. He's not old and I can't believe he'll sleepwalk his way through a chance to get back on a big league field after his nuclear meltdown fail in Boston so we'll see, and really, nothing else is happening for them now but to play for pride.
As fans these are the days it's important to support the team, so...
GO GIANTS!
Really,
GET YOUR DAMN FACE OFF THE FLOOR AND GOOOOOOO GIANTS!!!!!
Panda's no problem for me if they can get him back cheap- whatever. They could use a little more power- or a LOT more power- and remember- they wouldn't have won it all in 2012 & 2014 without him.
Yeah. Panda....... Minor league contract hurts us not, and maybe we can humiliate him some more.
Why the hell have we not traded half a dozen guys? We really need to replenish one of the very worst systems in the game.
This team is not winning again as is.
Cueto is gone after the season.
Cane's contract comes off the books. But Madbum will get a huge raise soon.
A yr or 3 of rebuilding is necessary. We had 3 in 5 yrs. That should hold us fans over until we rebuild. LA is maybe best team in BB right now(and has a super system that just keeps cranking out studs), Col. and Arizona are strong and getting stronger. Now is the time to rebuild and I am afraid they don't get it.
Would not trade Crawford, Posey or Madbum (But might dream about what they could get for him). Anybody else should be available. Maybe not Blach. Both Dyson and Melancon should bring something back. Who cares who would close out the yr. Give it to Strickland.
Tired of seeing Belt either walk or strikeout with the game on the line. Maybe somebody could use him. Would hate to part with Panik, but lets see what offers we get. Can't tell me someone could not use Nunez, although unlike you Tom I really like him on the team. Doubt they could get much for Pence or Span, but lets hear it.
I still watch every game and root for them to win, but I also would like the first pick in the draft for a couple yrs. So if they dump and start playing mostly kids, I am all for it.
I think we might have found our left fielder at least until he got injured. Gorkys is playing very well right now. I could see him in CF for the rest of this yr and maybe next. The kid from Korea is a fine bench player. Would like to see him heavy in the mix the rest of the yr.
Give up on Gillaspie. We paid him for the post season effort, now let him go.
The Shark should draw interest, he has been pitching well lately.
Could we pay someone to take Mat Moore? I thought he was a great addition when they got him, but I was wrong. Time to move on.
Moore's still young, he showed us what he's about when it counted and he's on a friendly contract so I'd have to think he's staying, and I hope he does.
At this point Nunez is probably their best trade piece and he's a likely gonner, so it's good he's playing well right now. I still say he's a sloppy, good player on a bad team type, so ultimately good riddance.
Nobody sees Gillaspie as a starter and he's a nasty bat off the bench, they should keep him.
Strickland is almost certainly gone. He's having a good year and relief pitchers who are having good years are always commodities this time of year. I don't like losing him because he's getting better and he'll probably still be good in a couple of years, but that's why he's worth something now. Hopefully something more than he's worth.
Next year Belt's contract gets HEAVY, so he's likely not going anywhere. Still, as annoying as he is, he's the type of player who can quietly help a good team as long as he's not expected to be a central figure. He's a very good 6th or 7th hitter on a good all-around team (like a lot of their hitters).
Cueto is interesting, because if he were pitching like he did last year he'd for sure opt out of his contract and go free agent again, but with the way this season has gone for him there's no guarantee that he'd get a better offer than the $84 million he's owed on his currant contract. I say gamble that he won't opt out and don't trade him unless it's a knockout offer, which I'd be surprised at this point they'd get. He strikes me as a guy who plays big in big situations. In other words, a keeper.
If they're lucky they'll get some decent offers for Samardzija and (juiced?) Span - dude's been a completely different player than he's been for three years since coming back from his latest injury, funny how that works in the 21st Century - and maybe they could steal something really good for Panik, but overall what they have to offer isn't that valuable for big-league ready players, and that's all the Giants will go for.
The Giants will never give up and go full rebuild, and they don't have the pieces to do it well even if they wanted to. We'll just have to hope that the humble pie they're eating now will wake them up and force them to be creative, make a few smart deals soon and figure out how to get some middle-of-the-order sluggers along with a few other winners and let's get back at it.
They should have got way more for Nunez. Sox's 18th and another unrated? We need Sabean to slip back into GM. Or new blood altogether. Our best chip and it does not improve anything.
Nunez wasn't worth much, especially since I don't think there were any other teams in real need of a (shaky) 3rd baseman/bad shortstop.
He's a glorified bench player, a guy who looks good on a bad team.
Their system is virtually empty of talent and this was a way to add some, and if the Giants love him and want him and his sloppy play and mistakes at always the worst time they can buy him back next year.
If you're looking for a big splash they'll have to get something more impressive dealing Cueto and/or Samardzija, and even then I don't believe they'll get that much back for either of them as things stand right now.
And common' Mark, do you think Sabean isn't still in the middle of every decision they make? Lil' Bobby has the title and does the grunt work, but Sabean is definitely in the room and still in charge when the decisions are made.
Their mistakes, complete lack of long-term plans and general lack of vision and attention to details that has put them in this position can be clearly traced as far back as 2012, and despite all the continuing & growing evidence to the contratry they still are holding desperately tight to the idea that Buster is still an effective middle of the order hitter and Pense & Belt are dangerous offensive weapons and that those guys along with some minor re-tooling will put them right back in the hunt next year.
That's Sabean's delusion at least as much as it is Evans.
IMO it's time for a bit of a purge, if not a complete overhaul, and in this discussion I'm not talking about the players on the field. Over the years I've come to appreciate Bochy more & more, but he's been around a looooooog time now, and sometimes a new voice is a good thing even if the old one is still valid.
I wouldn't mind at all seeing Sabean, Evans & Bochy kindly shown the door, and get fresh faces & ideas coming from that end of the organization.
But there's no way that's going to happen, because based on their general arrogance and a ten day run of solid play at the end of last season (a run that still collapsed for all the reasons they sucked then & now) they continue to refuse to accept that much is wrong and all of this season and the 2nd half of last season is just an aberration.
Whatever, fuck 'em all.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bochy is tired and I would not be surprised if he retires after this season. Next at latest. Shake up upstairs is due for sure. But it ain't gonna happen.
And I just looked at the Giants contracts for this yr and the coming few. We are stuck with a lot of guys until after next yr. So I think they will give it one more try with this team. Although the obvious holes are so huge and they already traded away anybody worth anything in their minors.
Looking bleak for at least the next 3 yrs for us. And that is if they come to their senses after next yr turns out similar to this one. Although this is the worst SFG record at this point of the season in history. They need to do something special with the next few yrs high draft picks. They usually pick people nobody ever heard of.
dodgers look stacked for at least the next 10 yrs. Both Arizona and Colorado are on the way up. We can't even beat the padres.
Like I said I still watch the games. I just hope the draft picks are worth it.
See you Thursday night? Gfish and I are going. Heading down there early afternoon
Wow, I thought the GD night was Friday and it was completely off my radar. That game is always a good time, and tix are $6.00 on stubhub right now. I may just find myself up there on Thursday, after seeing Phil rip it up in the little room the night before. And it looks like Ty Blach is pitching, I like that kid.
You know where to look for me once the game starts. I love my semi-private balcony and if I'm there I'll be easy enough to spot.
As for our boys, as always I feel like if a team is going to suck it's better that they REALLY SUCK so no excuses can be made. In the Giants case there is no question that they're REALLY SUCKING, and continuing on the SUCKING path they were on last season, so I'm not sure even with the Giants current super forgiving fan base how far their BS excuses and "re-tooling, not re-building" line will fly next year. I can't believe people will accept Belt, Posey, Pence in the middle of the order again next year.
Still, I'm a hopeless hoper; I understand they're stuck with some contracts, but they have some decent pieces and one or two interesting young kids. Their big problem for a fast turnaround is that three of the four main areas they need to upgrade are the hardest areas to correct - top quality leadoff hitter, #3 hitter & #4 hitter. In those three areas they got nothin' heading into next year, and those holes are not conducive to quick fixes, and often take years to fix properly.
Depth in the bullpen is their other major hole, but that isn't as hard to correct. Not necessarily easy, but not as hard as those all-important offensive pieces.
But as Giants fans of a certain age we've been here LOTS of times before. The difference now is at least we can let our eyes glaze over when Kontos gives up a grand slam to blow a lead for good ol' Matt Cain (against the FuckinA's no less) and remember the good times.
And god damn, those were GOOD TIMES!!!
If I have to I can live off those 'till the end of my time and be satisfied.
But of course I'd like a few more.
On it goes.
Fuck 'em all...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nunez has been a welcome addition...but, that job has always been Devers in 2018...looks like it may already be his, which relegates Nunez to bench...and between him and a healthy Brock Holt, they can cover any and all positions except catcher
Nunez is a free agent at the end of the year. Not surprising he's hitting well, he was rolling when the Giants dumped him, and if he carries that through the season and into the post-season he'll likely be a hot property and score a big contract next year.
He's a talented veteran player, but watch out for a bone-head mistake in a crucial moment though, like over-sliding an easily stolen base, getting thrown out at 3rd with two outs, forgetting how many outs there are/not watching his base coaches or making an error at the worst time.
Still, good to see him doing well for a team where it matters.
For one night we Giants fans got to just whoop it up right from the start, and even though it was way too short (they go to all the trouble of setting up a band on the dugout, have them standing around for ten minutes and then only have time to rush through three short songs, silly) it's very cool to hear some live versions of GD songs at the ol' ballpark, and Barry Sless on the big screen to boot!
There were two young teenage girls sitting in front of me during the short Moonalice bit. It was fun to see them frowning at first, then start grooving to They Love Each Other.
I had a great time last night. I saw a bunch of old friends, made some new ones and apparently even got on the Giants TV feed of the game for a moment when they took a shot of the guy next to me with a GD jacket.
Far out.
Thanks for coming by Mark, always great to see you.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're talking about how great he is, he is great.
If you're talking about the Giants trading for him, that seems impossible, considering how much more other big-market teams have in their minors to offer.
If the new owners decide to deal him they'll want a huge haul along with alot of that crazy contract to go with him, so the Giants would almost certainly have to include Bumgarner to even have a chance to out-bid the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. And for a number of reasons I just don't believe at this point the Giants will consider giving up the Bum.
But Giancarlo Stanton would be just a bit of an upgrade from Jarrett Parker, that's for sure.
Plus, he has almost the entire team name in his first name, which is cool.
I think the Giants can compete again next year, but they'll have to be real smart and get a little lucky as well. IMO a blockbuster deal to land one player isn't in their best interests for a fast turnaround, and a fast turnaround is what they're going to be looking for.
In fact, we need to sell sell sell. I still root for them to win each game, but I am also wanting that first draft pick. And I want it again after next yr. Not the time in my opinion, to buy anyone. Or trade for anyone but prospects.
I can go a couple yrs without the playoffs. Hell, we had 3 WS wins in 5 yrs. We were the best in baseball for that time. Right now we are the worst.
I might consider trading madbum for the right package of prospects. Like to keep Blach, Stratton Beede for next yrs rotation. Goodbye Cueto. And goodbye Shark if they can get prospects for him. Not holding my breath that they can offload Moore, but please try. Goodbye Span and Pence if they can get prospects. Goodbye Pablo just on principles(but he would be a cheap solution at 1B if they can trade Belt). Goodbye Belt if they can... . Bring up Arroyo and plant him at 3B. Crawford Panic Posey for the next couple yrs. I think Parker has shown a little promise. I loved Slater before he got hurt. I love Gorkys in CF next yr. They could not be as bad as this yr, and we need to see who in our system can play.
There is no way they're going that way Mark, and honestly I don't think they have to. They still have a solid group of talent to build around, and things can change so drastically in baseball.
They may deal the Shark, but it will have to be a very strong offer because again, right or wrong I don't think there's any doubt that their focus is to compete next year, and I think that it's almost a lock that Cueto will be back (which IMO is a very good thing) which means that if Cueto is healthy next year and they still have Samardzija (who has had a much better year than his stats indicate) they will once again open the season with a strong top-of-the-rotation starting staff, which is a good place to start competing.
Cueto's issues with blisters and then a sore arm came at exactly the worst time for him, as now teams will once again be wary of him, which means it would almost certainly be foolish for him to opt out of his fat contract with the Giants, which means it's likely to almost certain that Cueto is in orange & black next year.
His arm soreness is the same as what he had two years ago which allowed the Giants to get him a bit under-market, and he was outstanding for the Giants the next year. He's not that old and when healthy, factoring in his knowledge, technical skill and competitive nature he is one of the best overall starting pitchers in baseball and makes for a GREAT one-two punch with the Bum.
And there is no way they're giving up on Moore, as well they shouldn't, because he's also young and has all the tools to be a difference maker as a starter, and he's also very cheap and will be for two more years. It would be ridiculous for them to give up on him, then watch him get it together and dominate for someone else. He's staying, with lots of reason for optimism that he'll put his talent together.
Then you add in Blach and that's a top of the league five man rotation. A few things will have to go right for that to happen, but none of that is blind hope or pie in the sky delusion.
If Melancon gets right, along with the hope that Dyson got his groove back this year (and the way he's pitched for the Giants this year that's not blind hope either) they start next season with a very good back end of a bullpen as well.
What they need most is a couple of middle of the order run producers and a leadoff hitter. If they're smart they can repair that well enough to compete with a couple of additions, especially if Buster can continue to at least hit his little singles enough to bat 5th effectively.
I'm not sure why the organization doesn't see Tomlinson as a starting quality leadoff hitter, they must not like something about his swing (yet he continues to be a pesky hitter involved offensively in every game he plays) or they don't think he can play defense at 2nd well enough to start.
They also may be getting intoxicated on Span's significant offensive resurgence lately (juice anyone?) and may consider keeping him at leadoff and putting him in LF. Meh to that I say, but he has been hitting WAY better than he has in years. Funny how that can work in the 21st century.
Either way, I think the most likely impact guys to be traded this winter are Panik and Samardzija. Panik because he's still young, an excellent defensive player who has shown an ability to hit, and they have other options at 2nd, including Miguel Gomez, who has looked real good at the plate this year.
I don't think any of this optimistic attitude is a lock by any stretch, but I also don't think any of that is just false hope either, and I'm certain all of that is what the organization is thinking/hoping for.
The one thing that's for sure IMO is that there is NO WAY they are going to just give up and re-build.
And as long as they're smart and get a little lucky I'm OK with that.
GO GIANTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you went to the game today Tom. I wish I could have been there. Great 5 innings from our departing hero. Plagued once again by poor run support. Deserved to win. Trying to figure if my tears were from sadness or joy in the sendoff that he got. Either way, well done. Well done Matt, well done Bochy and the Giants, and well done Giants fans!
As of this writing, and I am watching the game in the 6th inning, tied 1-1, the Giants and the Tigers are tied for the first pick. I was hoping to get Matt a win, but since that is gone, hope they lose this one and tomorrow. No threat of losing 100, so that is good.
Next yr, I would love to see an outfield of Slater, Hernandez and Parker. Let them play most of the yr and see who they are. Throw Mac in as 4th OF. Span had a good second half, but he is not their future in CF. I love Pence, but he is done. Maybe trade both?
Posey splitting time at catcher with Hundley if they bring him back, or with their number 8 prospect Aramis Garcia. And with Chris Shaw at first base. If they resign Hundley then I think they should still bring up Garcia. See who he is. Otherwise no catchers anywhere to be found in minors. I doubt Federovich is their future. Time for Belt to go be a superstar with someone else. Maybe in Col or Cincy or someplace he can hit home runs. Don't want to break up Panik and Crawford. Arroyo at 3rd. Pablo has fucked up my plans by hitting well last couple weeks. I don't think the front office can pass up Pablo for free(vitually). Maybe put him in the mix at first and spell Arroyo at 3rd. Keep Kelby as main utility guy.
Pitching staff is cnfusing. I want to give Stratton and Blach and hopefully Beede a chance to show they belong. I think Stratton has shone. Blach had a great 3/4 yr. Of Course Madbum stays. I think Samardjia has turned the corner and would return a bounty in a trade. If he is signed for 2 or more yrs then maybe keep him as number 2 or 3. Cueto has been a horrible bust. I hope he decides to leave but of course he won't. Maybe trade him. Moore really likes to pitch at ATT but is atrocious on the road. Not sure about him.
Trade Meloncon as soon as we can. Bullpen? Dyson, Smith(hopefully coming back strong after surgery), this Moronta kid looks pretty good(despite giving up the HR today). Time for Strickland, Law, Okert and several others to step up or go home. Crick and Gearin I think have earned a spot.
Bu the main thing is we don't have to win next yr either. Lets do a minor rebuild. and come back strong in 2019. We will know who we have and who we need to buy. Buy FA's instead of trading prospects. They can afford it.
2-1 Giants in the seventh, Tigers play tonight.
GO Giants!
On further research, Garcia my be a yr or 2 away yet. Maybe call up feddy for the season.
When I was about six or seven, back in Alabama, this kid from the local high school came over one day to help my dad out with some work around the house. He played on the baseball team — and somewhere in between the work, I guess, he and my dad got to talking.
He was a pitcher, a pretty good one if I remember. And my dad, he’s one of these guys where, you know, nothing feels like small talk. Just a very thoughtful individual, and a great listener. Loves to learn new things about other people. So when he found out this kid was a pitcher, he started asking him a thing or two about it. What do you like about pitching? and How do y’all make the ball move like that? and that sort of thing. And of course the kid had a ball handy — Rule No. 1 about baseball: someone always has a ball handy — and before you know it, he starts showing my dad some of the different grips that pitchers use.
Showed him two, in particular: the four-seam, and the two-seam.
“Well isn’t that wild,” I imagine my dad saying, before filing it away.
And then it was later that very same night, I think, that my dad came around and said he had something to show me. Something pretty cool he’d learned, just earlier, from that kid from the high school who’d been helping him out.
“Want to know how those pitchers get the ball to do all that?”
And then he showed me the two grips: the four-seam, and the two-seam.
Did you ever get shown a magic trick as a kid — maybe the nickel pulled out from behind your ear, something like that. And it’s like: If you’re just young enough, and the trick’s done just right … it’s about the greatest thing you’ve ever seen? You see that trick once, and your mind is racing. And your head is spinning. And now all you can think about is wanting to see it done again, and again, and again? Well that’s really how it was for me with those grips on that ball. As soon as I saw it once, man … I was hooked. My mind went racing. My head started spinning. And I just wanted to see it done — wanted to do it — again, and again, and again.
You grip the baseball, just like that … and you throw.
I thought it was about the greatest thing I’d ever seen in my life.
I thought it was magic.
As of today, I am officially retired from the game of baseball.
I’m not one for big spectacles, or for putting any sort of spotlight on myself, or really for talking about myself much at all. But I still wanted to take a moment over the weekend and write this — just as a thank you. I wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped me along the way in my career, and who has made an impact on me throughout my life as a ballplayer.
And when we’re talking about my life as a ballplayer — I guess I’ve been lucky enough so that, you know, it means we’re pretty much just talking about one thing.
The San Francisco Giants.
Photo By Brad Mangin
A lot of people have asked me why it meant so much to me — to play for one team, and one team only. And the truth is, while it was happening, I never really had a good answer. I knew it’s what I wanted … I’m just not exactly sure I knew why. But as these last few days have come and gone — with making the decision, and making the announcement about my last start, and pitching for the last time, and suiting up for the last time, all of that — I think everything has come a little more into focus.
I think I’ve realized that, what I’ve been able to build for myself here in San Francisco … it’s just so much bigger than baseball. It’s bigger than the innings I’ve pitched, or the games I’ve won — or even the championships we’ve brought home. It’s something that you can’t measure by looking at my stats, and you can’t understand by looking at my scouting reports.
I think I’ve realized that what I gave you guys is 15 years of baseball.
And that what you gave me back is an entire life.
I got to build an entire life here in San Francisco. I got to grow into a man, and a husband, and a father. I got to become someone, and something, that looking back — and now, in another way, looking forward — I can truly be proud of.
I got to become Matt Cain, Pitcher, San Francisco Giants.
And I’ll always be in your debt for that.
Photo By Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
When I think about what being a Giant has meant to me, there are so many moments that stand out.
There’s June 4, 2002: draft day.
I was a late bloomer, and it was only when I was a senior in high school that I’d started to get much attention. So me and my parents, you know — we weren’t really equipped for what was about to happen, I don’t think, in a lot of ways. I remember, for the draft, it was this really small group of six of us — just me, my mom, my dad, his mom, my uncle, and our Yorkie-poo dog — huddled up around this desktop computer at my parents’ house in Somerville, Tennessee. And we’re all sitting there together, just trying to get the dang dial-up internet to work so we could watch it online. And we couldn’t at the start — the internet was too slow, and it just wouldn’t connect — so I think we ended up missing the first 10 or so picks.
And I just remember my mom in her chair, writing down all the picks by hand as they came in. And then it got to the 25th pick, and they announced my name, and my mom started to write it — and then all of a sudden, it was like, wait a minute.
That’s my name.
I just got picked, in the first round, by the San Francisco Giants.
I’m a Giant.
There’s August 26, 2005: The day that I got called up.
I was winding down my season in Fresno, hanging out with a buddy, Kevin Frandsen, and we were actually heading down to drop off my truck — taking it in to get it lifted with some big tires, have some suspension put on it. Not even thinking about baseball at all, at that point. It was more like, alright, it’s fall — time to take this truck out on a road trip, go do some duck hunting or whatever we can get ourselves into, and just, you know … have ourselves an offseason.
But as we’re taking the truck in, I get a call from this phone number I don’t recognize. Random 415 number. Pick it up. “Yep, this is Matt.”
“Hey, how’s it going? Bobby Evans here, with the Giants. Just wanted to congratulate you. You’re getting the call-up to the big leagues.”
And I didn’t even know how to process that. Just … wasn’t expecting it at all. And I’m such a kid at the time, I’m still just 20, that my first thought is about how I’ve got all these plans I’ve made for these next few weeks, trucking and duck hunting and all of that — and now that’s all up in smoke. But fortunately I at least knew enough to stop myself before I blurted any of that out loud. And instead I was just, like, “Thanks — thank — thank you!”
Then I canceled my plans, and I packed a bag.
There’s May 6, 2007: The day that Timmy got called up.
I guess that might seem strange to include here, in a letter about my career, but to me that day really meant something — and looking back, really has come to represent a lot. Because I think that was the day this era of Giants baseball went from being about a team in transition, that was losing a lot … to a team in transition, that was building something special.
Photo By Marcio Jose Sanchez/AP Images
It was such a cool mix on those teams: We had me and Timmy, these two pitchers both young enough to basically still be in college … and then we also had this great group of veterans, who really helped to show us the way. And that’s no accident, you know? That’s the Giants culture, that’s what they do. They welcome guys in, and — whether you’re a rookie or a vet or anywhere in between — they set you up to succeed.
I just think about all of the special guys who I crossed paths with during those first few years in San Francisco. Jason Schmidt, just talking to him, a pitcher with his résumé who also happens to be this great person — that was huge for me when I got called up. Randy Winn, Rich Aurilia, Mike Matheny, Matt Morris … man, all these guys. They took a liking to me, and a genuine interest in me, even when they didn’t have to.
And speaking of people who didn’t have to: I’ll tell you who was one of the best, nicest guys to me, during those first few years, straight up — it was Barry. He’d sit me right by him on the plane, and man … he would just talk the game to you, so caringly, through his eyes. And of course he’s on this next level, so even when he’s trying to explain things to you, it’s a little, like, O.K., well, that’s why you’re the best ever, and I’m just a kid — but even in those moments, honestly, he was as understanding as could be. And he protected me. Whether it was from other teams, and giving me advice on how to deal with certain situations, or it was from guys on our own team who he felt were coming down too hard on me … truly very few people were there for me, at the beginning of my career, like Barry.
And I’ve got to thank him for that — I’ve got to thank all of those veterans for that.
And I know Timmy would say the same.
There’s the day I met Chelsea.
To say that I wouldn’t have been able to do this without Chelsea is the understatement to end all understatements. A baseball player’s life is a weird one, and Chelsea’s been so much more than my wife over these last eight years. She’s been my rock. She’s been so strong, and so supportive: From the highest highs of pitching lights out in the World Series, to the lowest lows of getting left off the playoff roster … Chelsea’s been there for me. And more important than that, she’s been there for our family — especially in those moments when my schedule wouldn’t allow me to be. I’m so grateful.
Photo By Brad Mangin
Chelsea has also been instrumental in helping me to understand what my relationship with this city could be. And by that I mean — Chelsea made me realize what it is that makes a city feel like a home: a community.
From the opportunity we’ve had to support senior citizens and the critically ill with Project Open Hand and the Giant Race, to our involvement with the NOH8 Campaign opposing Proposition 8, to our work with the Giants Community Fund and Junior Giants, Until There’s a Cure, Sunrise Horse Rescue, PAWS, Strikeouts for Troops, Project Night Night and all the special kids and families we’ve met through Make-A-Wish Greater Bay Area….
What Chelsea and I have been able to accomplish in the community, and with the community, over these last several years — it’s meant as much to me as any world championship.
There’s June 13, 2012: the perfect game.
Not going to call anyone from S.F. a liar, but I’ll just say this: There were about 42,000 people in attendance that day.
And in the last five years, I think I’ve met all 100,000 of them.
And finally: There’s November 1, 2010, and October 28, 2012, and October 29, 2014. If you’re reading this letter, then I’m guessing you already know what those dates stand for. But if you don’t, then honestly, even better — look ’em up. I won’t spoil it for you, except to say that our Giants teams.…
We did a little bit of winning this decade.
Photo By Jeff Chiu/AP Images
So, you know — thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to the best organization and the best fans in all of sports. You are what makes this franchise great.
And you are what made my life in baseball possible.
It hit me on Saturday when I woke up.
Tapped the alarm clock, got out of bed, hopped in the shower….
I think it’s the routine that gets you. All those years of routine, all those years of waking up on my start day and going through the same set of pregame habits. There’s a real comfort in routine — I think that’s probably why we do it. But when it comes time for that last time … man, there’s nothing “routine” about it.
This is my last alarm clock on a start day. This is my last shower on a start day. This is my last drive to the ballpark — last time heading over that bridge, last time pulling into that parking lot — on a start day.
This is my last start day.
It hit me, and it kept hitting me, throughout that morning.
I got out of my car, and walked into the ballpark. Me and that park … we’ve been through a lot together. But I told myself that I wasn’t going to treat this start, this day, like anything out of the ordinary. I promised myself that I wasn’t going to give in to the nostalgia.
Then I went and broke that promise pretty much instantly. I got to the clubhouse, and the TVs — I mean, you can’t make this stuff up: They were all playing this packaged loop of my “greatest moments.” You know — all of my career highlights, sequenced from start to finish, running on every TV in the room.
And of course the guys are loving it.
Some of the younger guys are coming up to me, during the older clips, like, “Matt, Matt — why’re you wearing number 43, what’s the deal?” And so I told them a story involving me and this guy named Moises Alou — a great, great player from before they were born. (Just kidding, Moises.) They’re all letting me hear it when the TV flashes to my old leg-kick I used to do, or shows me going up against some hitter “from the ’90s.” And of course (of course) there’s Gardy, giving me the hardest time of everyone, for how much harder I used to throw back in the day. And he’s just loving it: Every second, it’s, “Matt, wow, bringing the cheese, I’m into it.” Or, “I didn’t know you used to hand out three fastballs an at-bat.” It’s a lot of fun. But even in that moment, watching those clips, I don’t think it quite hit me that this was the end.
Photo By Ezra Shaw/Getty Images
It wasn’t until Rags came up to me, I think, that it really started to sink in.
Dave, I’m lucky enough to say, has been my pitching coach for my entire career. And I owe so much of my success to him — more than I could ever fit into a letter like this. Rags has just been a special, special presence in my life. And so when he came up to me, you know, at first I thought he was going to want to talk about the elephant in the room — that this would be our last ever meeting as pitcher and pitching coach — and maybe get a little emotional. And I think, just sort of anticipating that, I started to get a little emotional myself.
But then, in perfect Rags fashion, he pivoted — and just started going on about the Padres lineup for that day. You know — like it was any other day, and any other start. And so the two of us … we’re just sitting there, by my locker, talking shop, going through some approaches. But I think that entire time, it’s almost, like — we’re speaking two languages at once. It’s like we’re saying one thing, but then meaning another. Like Rags is talking me through this player’s or that player’s tendencies … but what he’s really saying is, you know, “I’m proud of you, kid.” And I’m just taking in every word, and saying back what I’d usually say, and nodding … but what I’m really saying, I think, is, “Thank you, for everything. I don’t know where I’d be without you.” So it’s like this moment that was totally ordinary — but then also, just under the surface, incredibly special.
We finished talking, and Rags got up to leave.
And then at the last second, he turned around. Looked back at me, and cracked a smile.
“Hey. Enjoy it if you can.”
From there, I’ll be honest — it was tough. Putting on my jersey … putting on my pants, my cleats … just in those last few things that I had to do to get ready … there were probably 5-to-10 times where I had to hold myself back from crying. One thought I kept having was back to all of the times in my career, especially over the last few years, when that stuff — prepping for a start, meeting with coaches, putting on my gear — had felt like a grind. And how much I wish now that I could kind of go back, I guess, and knock that younger guy on the head, and just sort of tell him, you know, “There’s going to be a morning in October, a few years from now, when you’re going to realize how much you miss this grind.”
I walked through the tunnel.
Climbed up the stairs.
Made my way to the bullpen.
Took in the crowd — this awesome sight of the only fans I’ve ever known….
Photo By Stan Szeto/USA TODAY Sports
And you know what: I think that was the moment.
That was the moment, I think, when I finally answered the question — of why it meant so much to me to play my entire career as a Giant. It wasn’t the first World Series, or the second, or the third, or the LCS against the Cardinals, or the LDS against the Reds, or one of the hundreds of Dodgers games, or the perfect game … or any other moment in between. It was the reaction that I got from those fans, on that afternoon, on my last day as a starter.
It was a reaction that said, Hey — we know what you’re going through. And guess what: We’re going through the exact same thing. It was a reaction that said, You’re going to miss this? Well, guess what: We’re going to miss this — we’re going to miss you — just the same.
It was a reaction that said, When you’re in this ballpark, you’re not just “Matt Cain, Pitcher.” You’re “Matt Cain, Pitcher, San Francisco Giants” — and you’re not on your own. We’re right here, with you, and we’re going to do this together.
And that’s what happened. I walked out of the bullpen, and I took the mound — and I didn’t feel alone the entire time. It was kind of wild to think about: 25 years after my dad had showed me this trick he’d learned in the backyard from some kid … there I was, gripping that ball, for the last, first time.
I waited for Buster, and then went into my windup.
You grip the baseball, just like that … and you throw.
It’s still about the greatest trick I’ve ever seen. It’s still never gotten old. And on my last day ever as a pitcher, it’s the craziest thing … but it still worked.
OK, so pablo screwed us out of the first pick. Great, we only lost 98 instead of 99. WTF?
Who the fuck is thinking about trading for Jason Heyword? God damnit!
The only trades they should be making are to get prospects and losing a few starters. If they want to trade starters for Ozuna or Yelich, then yeah, I'm interested.
Stanton would be fun to watch get IBB'd as a Giant, but his contract would cripple us for the next 10 yrs.
Bryan Sabean - "I think we're prepared to do as much as we have to without gutting the team or without having to peel it all the way back from a payroll sense. It's best use a phrase perhaps like 'reset.' It's not going to be a rebuild. We don't have the time or the patience to go through something like that, so the charge is going to be much like years ago -- '96 going into '97, 2010, '11 going into '12, '13 going into '14 etc."
Forget it Mark, they're not going to do what you want, and in a way they really can't afford to do that.
They're looking to get right back in it next year. In a perfect world that's probably not the right thing for them to do, but in the real world they can't afford to be also-ran's for two or three more years. We just have to hope the moves they make are smarter than the ones they've been making. But, they've done it before and maybe they're awake again after the smack-down of last season.
I get the sense that things are chippy behind closed doors right now, no more championship/playoff hangover now. We'll see how good (and how lucky) they still are.
As a fan I'd be happy to see Stanton in orange & black, but that type of deal is sure not how to build a clean & thriving organization. (And by "clean" I don't mean PEDS, because, well, it's the Giants we're talking about so that type of "clean" isn't really ever in the conversation)
It sounds like it's the Giants or the Cardinals, but he wants to play for the Dodgers. IMO if the Dodgers really want him they have everything it takes to get him and could swoop in at the last minute, but I'd be a little surprised if they go for Stanton, because of the money, his injury history and the fact they'd have to give up some players to get him. I think they'll pass on Stanton and go all-in for Bryce Harper as a free agent next year. And shit on that.
And the Ohtani thing is interesting. If he's serious about wanting to hit as much as possible then he'll likely end up in Seattle so he can DH, but it sounds like the Giants are possibly the NL finalist. He sounds like a damn good pitcher who hits better in a minor league like the Japanese league than he will in the big leagues, so hopefully he understands that hitting isn't going to carry him in the majors and that San Francisco has lots of good sushi restaurants.
If they do end up with Stanton they'll almost certainly have to dump some salary, which would mean Cueto or maybe Samardzija gets traded, and if they get Ohtani they can fill that rotation hole with him and use the starter to land a center fielder who can actually play center field. Cueto has to be worth more than Samardzija, but whatever happens I hope they keep Cueto. If they do find themselves in the playoffs again it's a guy like him as the #2 in a rotation that can make all the difference.
If they could get someone like Billy Hamilton in CF, Stanton in RF and platoon a rotation of Span(t), Pence & Ohtani in LF that would be a pretty fun team to watch.
Well Mark, you got one thing you wanted - Moore dealt away to Texas for two prospects.
But this isn't the beginning of a tear down/rebuild, it's just the team dumping dollars so they can buy some free agents and/or pay the salaries of guys they may trade for. They're still going to go hard to win next year, for better or worse.
I'm sorry to see Moore go. Everyone has been down on him, doing the normal sports fan thing of making complete final judgments based on one bad year, but I think there's upside to that guy; he's still young and I just loved the way he pitched down the stretch and in the playoffs in '16. Plus at 9/10 million a year for two more years he's ridiculously cheap for a starting lefty, or even a bullpen lefty, but they needed to dump salary and he was a wreck last season so off he goes.
I would have rather seen Samardzija go; much more salary gain and I think we've seen his ceiling (plus I get tired of figuring out how to spell his damn name) but I get that Moore is much more of a question mark who will be replaced by one of the young guys already on the roster.
I'm still hoping they get Billy Hamilton. He doesn't hit but that guy can FLY so he's fun to watch and he would be great in the vast Siberian spaces of CF at AT&T.
Bah to that guy Martinez, I'd rather see them get Frazier to play 3rd.
One thing for sure, they haven't even started to deal, so at least the next couple of months will be interesting, if not exciting.
Also sorry to see Moore go. He's cheap and he seemed to get better at the end of the season. He is still recovering from I think 2 TJ surgeries. I like making room for the kids. That needs to be done. But maybe Cueto might have been a better dump. Samarjia(fuck the correct spelling) Seemed to go to another level last yr. I look for big things from him this yr.
The guys they got? one is a fireballer that won't pitch until June at least because of injury. He made it to 27 on the Giants list. The other guy has not made it out of rookie ball in 4 seasons. So it was a salary dump only. No improvement of our minors, so it was not what I wanted.
Also would love to see Hamilton patrolling CF at ATT. No to Martinez(too expensive) and no to Frazier(over the hill). I think Arroyo and Pablo would be better than Frazier. And much cheaper.
I cannot see anyway that they get better than anyone in the west this yr. They are the worst team in maybe the strongest division in baseball. And that will not change with the current core. They really need a total rebuild. Maybe not as drastic as what Houston did, but similar. They could not be worse than last yr, even with rookies everywhere.
Why is there no talk of dealing Meloncon? We need to dump his salary and we have a very good very cheap option at closer in Dyson.
And when will Will Smith be back? Had TJ on 3/30. He's a huge piece of the bullpen that we sorely missed this yr.
And how is Arroyo mending? I say put him in at 3B and let him play. Pablo can be cheap bench bat. And a last ditch fallback guy in case Arroyo is not ready. There 3B handled. No need for over the hill Longoria.
They need to trade Belt and Meloncon for whatever prospects they can get. Bring up Shaw to split time at 1B with Buster. And play left field when Buster is at first.
I thought Slater did a good job last yr until he got injured. I would be happy with Gorkys in CF most of the yr. I like him and think he might bridge the gap till Duggar gets up. Save the money on a power hitter until next yr. Let the kids play and see what they got. Besides we gotta pay Madbum.
If we could have gotten Stanton and Ohtani and J Bradley Jr (or even Hamilton) and our pitching held up, we may have been able to compete for a WC spot. And then only if everybody else had career yrs. But we got none of the above, and are going to finish, I think, last in the west again this coming yr no matter what we do.
So, don't spend any money. Don't trade any prospects. Trade Belt and Meloncon and Pence and Span if you can. Let the kids play one more yr and make a splash in next yrs huge free agent class. Also spend this coming season nailing down our bullpen. See which of these kids are gonna be good and which need to be cut.
Buster and Hundley at C
Buster and Shaw at 1B
Panik and Crawford
Arroyo spelled by Pablo at 3B
Kelby at Utility
Gorkys in CF most days.
Shaw, Parker, Williamson and Slater fighting it out for corner OF and spelling Gorkys in CF.
That is 12 guys I would like to see in the field this coming yr and leaves 13 spots for the pitching staff. 5-1/2 SPs and 7-1/2 relievers.
MBum
Cueto
Samarjia
And 2 kids probably Stratton and Blach or Beede.
Bullpen
Blach or Beede
Dyson
Strickland
Gearin
Crick
Will Smith if/when he is ready.
Rule 5 guy Fernandez
Hoping either Osich or Okert get their shit together. Bout done waiting for those guys.But we need another lefty besides Will Smith. And he may not be ready yet. So these guys really need to step up.
This leaves Law and a few others to prove themselves at AAA.
Somebody please forward this to the Giants Main Offices. They can call me if they need any clarification.
Best thing about this trade is they are no longer tempted to give up #2 pick for Moustakis.
And Span is gonzo. Hate to see Arroyo go. I was looking forward to seeing him at 3B for the Giants. They really soured on him lately. Was our #1 prospect. The other 2 guys were only on our top 30 list to give them more trade value. Nothing lost there.
We will be regretting this deal in a few yrs when he is really over the hill and Arroyo is a stud for Tampa. Or whoever they trade him to.....
But probably will make them a better team this yr and next.
Longo is owed some big $ and his stats last year were declining. Tampa traded him before he became a 5-10 year vetern and can be in more contol of if and where he is traded. The young ones sf gave up are florida boys, hopefully moving back home makes something click and they start performing like what was expected when they were drafted.
Longo was a great guy in TB, I hope he has something left in the tank, he deserves good stuff to come back to him
Which Blanco? I heard they were signing their old Blanco and also a Blanco utility infielder from the Phillies.
I think they're both on minor league contracts, but if both make the team the Giants will lead the league in Blanco's.
And I hope they're not done. I'm not crazy about Austin Jackson in CF. It sounds like they (Sabean especially) love the kid Duggar, so hopefully he'll develop quickly and be on the big team by July at the latest, if they don't just force him onto the big league team right away just because he can play defense well right now.
And of course they don't have a leadoff hitter so at the moment it sounds like they're going to jam McCutchen there, which will likely waste much of what offensive talent he'll bring, but unless Duggar can develop quickly in the leadoff roll they have no one else remotely qualified, which leaves the fading power hitter Posey stuck in cleanup and the likes of Belt, Pence or Crawford at #5, which will almost certainly not be good enough and could well be just bad.
But no matter what, they still need bullpen upgrades. They're praying that Melancon and Will Smith return to form and Dyson holds down the setup role, but even if those guys do perform well, if they continue to think they'll be good enough to truly contend for a championship with the likes of Derek Law, Gearrin, Osich & Okert filling out the 'pen they're crazy.
But then they're not really trying to win a World Series, they're desperately trying to put together a team that will just win enough to keep it interesting so the fans keep packing the park.
Still, all three of their teams that won the Big One had lots of holes as well, but those three teams had a young Buster and the killer bullpen trio of Lopez, Affelt & Romo. Those three relievers don't get nearly enough credit for the championships, and I don't think it's coincidence that when those guys faded/left so did the team.
As it stands now they have a solid team that could be tough to beat, but they don't anyone close to a young Buster or those three relievers.
Whatever, fuck 'em all...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I told you all we should have rebuilt this yr. Everything they did to win this yr is out the window. Gonna be a long season. What is the over under on the 10 or 11 games against the dodgers first month of the season. 3? I guess we'll see. Gonna be a long season.
OK, if we're going to play that then I told you that there was NO WAY they were going to trade Bumgarner, Crawford, Panik, Samardzjia, Melancon and even Posey, which is what they would have had to do to "rebuild" this past offseason, and only Bum and Posey would have netted them any real payback, and trading either of those two Giants icons would have lead to a fan backlash and crash in every way that would not have been sustainable for the organization.
The situation that is the reality now because of the three championships is that it would have been death for the organization to trade Giants legends for minor leaguers and openly tank for two, three, or more years. It was just not realistic, or IMO the right to have done. Even if trading Bum might have been the right thing, or at least a bold thing to have done long-term, it isn't a board game being played in their living room, it's a multi-billion dollar enterprise where making every effort to keep a good product on the field and take one more run with this group of World Series winners is the only thing they realistically could do, especially given what they had to trade that had any real value, and generally they did a good job of putting together a pretty solid team this year without giving up too much.
By all accounts they are also putting more focus & money into their player development moving forward, and I do think they'll be more aggressive after, or depending how things go maybe during this season with moving on from some of their past stars, but this year's team was/is set up to be good, maybe very good; Bum getting nailed by a line drive is brutal but is just part of the game, but I think they'll still compete.
What I do think they may well do short-term if they don't come together this year and they fall WAY back at the trade deadline is look to see what Longoria, McCutchen, Melancon, Cueto & maybe Crawford & Panik might bring them, which might be quite a bit if those guys are doing well at the deadline, and unless they really rage this year moving some or all of those guys could be a real focus next off-season (maybe even Bumgarger, but never Posey) and the fanbase won't explode if any/all of THOSE guys get traded during or after another lost season.
But they couldn't just give up before this season by dumping two or more of their greatest heroes. In a vacuum it might have been the right thing to do, but in reality it would have been an organizational disaster in a number of ways, even if they got two or three young guys who might become quality players or even stars by 2020/21.
That's just the reality of being a big winner, and I'm OK with that, and generally with what they did to build this years team and what looks to be their plan for the next few years.
When are we going to get an electronic strike zone? I don't care if the umps do go on strike over it. And I am a union guy. That horrible call cost us 2 runs. Even Utley knew it was a strike. This shit is unacceptable as we have the technology to get every call right. And what is the point of challenges when they still get it wrong in NY? Fucking umps are horrible.
Tom, I did not say trade Bumgarner, Crawford, Panik and Posey. Maybe Meloncon before the season, but he is worthless now. But I definitely did not want to take on the salary of Longo. Anybody we could have gotten(minor leaguers) for shark would have been good. It does us no good to have these guys on the payroll when we have no shot at winning with this team. Would not kill us to have another yr or two like last the last one if our payroll was down and we helped our minors even a little. We could have opened the season with Pablo and Arroyo sharing 3B. Crawford, Panik, and Belt(although I think they could have gotten something for him) at 1B. Posey and Hundley behind the plate, and Duggar, Mac, and Slater starting in the outfield and they would be as good a team as they are now and have a much brighter future. We did not give up a lot for Cutch, but why do we need him this yr? Ajax? At least they did not give anyone up for him. But we didn't need him either.
I did not want an allout total rebuild, but I do think we could have put out an equal team with a much smarter outlook. Small and dumb bandaids don't get it. Saddling us with Longo's contract was a huge mistake. And will never pay off. Even if he hit 300 with 25 HR's it would not make this team a winner. And how many more yrs?
I am looking forward to see who they take in the upcoming June draft. And looking forward to watching the kids play. But we are going nowhere this yr.
Now it is 11-2. All because of that missed strike call..............
Even as guys are dropping left & right they're starting to come together as a team.
Longoria is swinging and picking, and this kid Hanson is really adding some speed and energy. He seems to be a bit of a brick defensively, but he's helping right when things could have gone deep south with Panik out for weeks and things looking bleak with Cueto.
With Williamson really looking like he's turned a corner they could keep it going offensively, taking pressure off of Posey and allowing him to be what he is now. I think as the season goes a lot will depend on Williamson, but he was really looking good before he banged his head. They need him to get back on the field, and wouldn't it be great if the Giants didn't keep getting concussions?!?
If Cueto is gone that's going to hurt bad, but Bum will be back, the kids are looking good and the bullpen is looking very solid, especially with Smith back.
I wish there was a way they could play Panda more, his swing looks fully back and his dose of humble pie has made an obvious difference, but Longoria needs to play and when Belt is on a roll he's got to play as well. A good problem to have.
Keep winning boys.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Somehow, every time it seems time to write them off they come back and play well as a team and start to look OK again.
A very nice win for Pudge's kid today, and damn Panik is really playing well, picking up right where he left off a month ago when he got hurt.
Bum is back on Tuesday, I'll be there, Melancon is back and hopefully he's finally OK. If so he should push that mediocre pretender Gearrin out of the way and will fit nicely into the bullpen rotation that is suddenly looking really strong, with Watson & Smith along with Dyson. Strickland has the closer spot locked down, for the moment, but he looks really good there so far.
Now they have to weather yet another of Belt's yearly guaranteed trips to the DL, but with Panda there that doesn't look as daunting a loss. When he comes back we'll see if he gets to the second of his yearly certainties - the stone cold, extended black hole slump. What a thing if somehow Belt can overcome that and actually play well for an entire year, but after seven years of very consistent inconsistency I'll believe that after I see it.
With the division staying close, if they can just stay healthy for a time and if Cueto can come back they could make a real run in the 2nd half.
Just no JS please (Giants fans know what that means).
JS? My mind must be clogged. Oh, Jeff Samardzija? I really expected better from him this yr.
Yeah, these guys are surprising me right now. We need to shore up the leagues worst defense though. Been playing better last few. 3 great outings from the kids over the weekend. And Holland tonight. I am using Holland in my fanduel DFS team today along with a Giants stack offensively. Only a 0ne dollar gpp.
Giants still list Blach as their number 2 starter, but he has been warming up to come out of the bullpen. I guess he will be out after Madbum gets back. Wish I could join you for the game tomorrow.
Today is draft day. Hope we don't screw it up. Hope the Tigers don't take Mize. He would be great in orange and black. Springer I think next, but we may take that catcher that hits so well. I guess we shall see.
Glad to see Belt finally breaking out. Hopefully he will avoid the slump this yr.
We have a number of problems with the 25 man roster coming up soon. Will be interesting.
Their second pick, if he makes the big leagues, will be tied for the tallest player ever to play MLB. 6'11" pitcher. Was his conferences pitcher of the yr in 17. Hjelle, Sean 6' 11" 225 lbs out of University of Kentucky.
Today they took 3 RHP and an OF last pick.
Bart will be in MLB top 100 for sure. We will see on Hjelle, but probably not right away.
Now they need to sign these guys.
Great game last night. Gonna be rockin tonight for sure, have a blast Tom.
I get that they want to give Pence one more shot, but he just looks old and washed up, and trying for the second time in a few months to completely change his swing, this time mocking the deal that Williamson has changed to that has made (to this point) a HUGE difference for him just smacks of total desperation for Pence.
Unless he feels desperate enough to go to the medicine cabinet Hunter looks like he's at the end of his road, and the Giants can't waste time messing with him. I get that he hit well in a few rehab games in the minors and he smashed a hard grounder for a hit last night, but Williamson has the chance to be a real difference maker and he needs to play every day right now. Unfortunately we all know how ol' Boch likes to play these type of situations.
Also, Austin Jackson should be shown the door, dude is worthless, and as you called it Mark Gorkys is playing damn well and has won the CF job.
Suddenly the bullpen looks excellent, but they need to get Cueto back. That and Williamson showing that he truly has become a consistent smasher are the keys to this team giving it a real run. And also if maybe they could go three games without three injuries a game.
GO GIANTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think we should do any trades unless we get rid of somebody. Like Longo or even Belt. Any trade we do do, should result in our getting prospects. Bullpen is OK. I say give them another yr. Give Panik one more yr to get over the concussions. Maybe trade Madbum at the deadline, we'll see how everything looks then. Sign him back up as a free agent. OF = Duggar and Gorkys(as the 4th) and one or 2 of the kids. If we sign a power bat corner OF I would not mind. But do not trade for one. Garcia and Posey behind the plate for one more yr. Hopefully Bart develops quickly. Maybe pick up one starter. Madbum, Shark, DRod, Stratton or Suarez, and a new guy. Maybe even re-sign Holland. Lets see what we have for one more yr. Cueto comes back in 2020. I don't see a lot we can or should do this yr. The team is much better than they showed last 2 yrs but not near good enough. If Panik comes back to his normal yr, Belt and Longo stay healthy, all pitchers improve a little and we find some pop in the OF(Either from Mac or who-ever) then this team can win maybe 85 games. But one more yr to see what we can do as is. Then maybe blow it up next yr. But this yr, barring trades of the old and inefficient, I say one FA Bopper OF and one FA starting pitcher.
Being a Brave fan...i love the resigning of an old vet to play w these kids...brian mccann...and taking a one year 23 million $ flyer on josh doneldson is fine w me...if that guy can ever stay healthy--- he ll hit...
Im hearing Giants have said "anyone and eveyone is available"...hmmmm, should be an interesting offseason
There are only three players the Giants have that are worth anything in a big way and two of them have no-trade clauses. That leaves Bumgarner, who comes with a brilliant resume but a declining fastball. Will he be worth HUGE money a year from now?
Bum's value was at the highest last trade deadline, but in all fairness the Giants were only 4 - 5 games off the division lead at that point with the hope that their group of vets could get hot. If they had been 15 games out at that point they may have moved him then, but I don't really blame them for holding on and taking the chance for another late season run.
At this point anything is possible with Bum, but I think this guy the team poached from the Dodgers to run the team who originally came from the A's will have a long-term plan that won't include huge deals right away. Most reports are that he'll try to dump some of the bigger/longer contracts like Longoria & Belt without trying to get too much back except payroll flexibility, which is what he did in LA a few times.
They say he'll probably look to acquire some starting pitchers and field players who are able to play multiple positions, which he's big on, but I don't think the team they field this year will look that much different than last years, while this guy makes moves that allow him to do more in the future.
Ultimately I think they got a real good guy to run the team, and they gave him full control which I wasn't expecting but is great and is probably why he agreed to come. And because he has no ties to the organization or their past glory if he wants to work a deal for Posey or Crawford and can get them to waive their no-trade clause he won't be held back by personal ties or pressure from above.
Either way, the dude's got a BIG job on his hands, but all indications are that he's qualified to do it.
Yeah, and most of the scoring is coming from that mix and match OF(and lately, Longo). Pretty cool. I try and figure out who will still be around in a few yrs when we are good again.
I don't see anybody in the IF being around much past their current contracts. Except maybe Pablo. That guy has really turned himself into an asset. Both in the game and on the bench. Austin is listed as 1B. He could still be around. Maybe Solano as Utility?
Pitchers? Who knows. Beede, Anderson, maybe Moronta. D-Rod? Maybe Suarez? Cueto heading the starting rotation?
Aramis Garcia backing up Bart at C.
OF, now here is where it gets fun.
I think Duggar will be in CF for a long time. I hope so.
Would like to see Slater, Yas and maybe Dickerson stick around.
If all these guys stick, in three yrs, that's only 15 men. Need to fill those other 10 with some major quality if we expect to get back to the top.
Panda is worth more to the team as a trade asset for a young prospect. A very good but aging role-player on a terrible team is worthless, but for a team pushing for the championship right now a top-quality switch-hitting pinch-hitter with power & proven clutch who can also fill in at 3rd & 1st is VERY valuable.
Unfortunately the Giants are a loooooong way from pushing for any championship, so if they can get anything of future value for him he needs to go, along with ANY other player they have now.
Duggar can't hit & he isn't as good in CF as we were lead to believe (which won't be as important since they're going to homoginze the stadium next year and pander to the lowest denominator by moving in the fences, but still) so he probably won't be around long. Beede is finally starting to show something, but he's no ace level pitcher. I honestly don't see much of anyone on this current roster who will be on the team in a couple of years...... hopefully, because virtually no one on this roster is really any good (except two or thee guys they must trade away).
I'm happy at the way Zaidi is doing business so far and I hope he completely guts this group to squeeze out every drop of value, because they need it ALL.
It's a damn shame they have to trade Smith and it's a total gut-punch to be forced to trade Bumgarner, but IMO their best/most interesting trade piece isn't Bum or Smith, it's Joey Bart. That guy is the real deal and is showing that he's likely going to be ready for the big leagues sooner than later, which is great, but of course the ongoing elephant in the room is Buster Posey and what happens with him?
The prevailing thinking of course is that he'll move to 1st, which would have been fine five years ago, but as an impact middle-of-the-order hitter that guy is washed up (and has been for at least three years). Now & going forward there is NO WAY Buster Posey is going to be even close to a good enough hitter to justify playing him at 1st on any winning team.
As he is now he is at best a solid catcher who could start & hit 7th or 8th on a winning team, but even that is hopeful/wishful thinking, as even now at 31 he's breaking down all the time (and at almost $20 million a year that's a burden on the rest of the roster). And the idea that once he gets out from behind the plate his hitting will come around is a long-gone dream.
The damage has clearly been done; all the multiple concussions, the endless beating to his hands & wrists, his knees, back & ankles have done their evil work. It's sad to watch him constantly foul off, hit a soft fly or a flair on a flat 90mph fastball right down the middle, a pitch he CRUSHED every damn time before catching took it's toll, and watching his surprise/shocked reaction to those failures might be more sad.
Which leaves the Giants in a conundrum; what do they do with Buster if/when Bart is pushing his way onto the roster, maybe by this time next year? Buster is worth ZERO in a trade, plus he has a no-trade clause (that he would likely wave because he's a good guy, but still). To me the answer is pretty simple, especially for a team as desperate for young high-end talent as the Giants are: leave Buster behind the plate though his contract - 2022 - let him be the leader of a young, rising group of players and the one remaining hero of the long-gone glory days, and either move Bart to 1st right now or trade Bart for a top quality 1st base prospect.
The Giants have some interesting young prospects and they'll almost certainly get more soon, but they have virtually no one on the roster now they can reliably count on for the future. The organization's arrogance and short-sighted greed has put them in this deep hole and now they don't have the luxury to mess around; to dig out of this epic mess they must absolutely maximize every single asset they do have, and IMO, along with Bum (who will be a BEAST this year for any team who gets him) and Smith, Bart is their BEST overall asset right now.
Anyway, it has been fun to watch them win a few games lately, even if they're doing it with scrubs, hacks & pretenders, with just a touch of greatness thrown in.
BTW, writing that little essay yesterday afternoon inspired me to tie my shoes, get off my ass and go to the game, which was a real good one, even with the incredible bad luck of seeing Bumgarner get SMOKED by a line drive and be forced to leave the game (after staying in the game for another inning - what an all-time stud he is). The Slater slam was amazing (these days the balls are just as juiced as the players) and seeing Panda stroke one right-handed was damn fun too.
It's only the third game I've been to this year, because obviously it's not as fun to make the effort to watch a last-place team, but I figured it could be Bum's last game in a Giants uniform and I had to get out to see & cheer for him again.
The last game I went to was his previous start at home, his first after getting shelled in LA. I went for the same reasons, thinking it could be the last time seeing him on our side, plus I figured he was burning from his embarrassing loss in LA on national TV and would be snarling. I was right on that one, he was absolutely brilliant that night, vintage Madison Bumgarner, and it was glorious to see him dominate once more.
One good thing about rooting for a bad team, it's so easy to go to a game. Parking no problem and cheap, tix dirt cheap, no lines for food or beers, plenty of room to stretch out. I do enjoy being at a game that isn't crushed with people.
But I enjoy watching a good team competing for a championship much more, so...
Yeah, well, Zaidi's gotta' say the right things, they've won a few games and he's also deep in bartering mode, but if he's worth a half a damn he's about to send his own message.
Fight a hard line and get quality, but be sure to fight for real quality.
This is an amazing moment in Giants history, happening right now. The Giants are down, deep down, but at this moment they're actually in a bit of a power position because despite being a bad team they've got a number of guys who are really valuable to a team on the cusp of champagne in the locker room. What Zaidi does with those guys in the next 1-12 months will make or break this organization, at least for my personal ability to follow it.
If he's really good he's going to get guys now that he'll turn around to get other guys. And he'll build a team.
Competitively this season is meaningless but for the future it's huge, and I'll be happy if Zaidi trades off everyone for prospects and then trades those prospects for more prospects/young quality players down the line. But IMO the one current exception is if he can't get real value for Bumgarner then they should consider NOT trading him, but breaking the bank and signing him to a long-term extension right away. Because at 29 I think he's still the real deal and it would give the organization a boost and the team a focus & a real leader (I can't help it. I'm a huge Bumgarner fan).
But if they CAN get real quality for him now, then trade him.
And sign him back as a free agent next year.
If Zaidi does this right, REALLY right, the Giants can be back pretty quickly.
I still say trade Smith, and any others, IF the price is right. But as a fan I say trade Bum only if they get TOP quality, which reportedly they won't.
At this point I say unless they get BIG compensation they should trade the others but keep The Bum - shock the world and SIGN The Bum, and let that carry the 2nd half.
They're playing real good right now.
(Realistically they should probably trade Bumgarner for whatever they can get, but I'm a fan and damn they're playing really good right now)
It'll break my baseball heart if they trade the Bum, but sometimes one must be cruel to be kind, and this guy Zaidi seems to know what he's doing.
He just made his first deal and got a what sounds like a good young 2nd base prospect who's ready for the big leagues for Pomeranz & Ray Black, which seems to be a good move, as Pomeranz came to the Giants as a cheap FA and Black is a good reliever with potential, but the G's have a number of those.
I believe that if Zaidi trades Bumgarner he'll get good value for him.
And despite the bizarre hot streak the team has been on, they really do need all the upgrades they can get.
OK, well that's it. Bumgarner stays, Smith stays, Watson stays. I wonder how much pressure Zaidi got from the owners to not break up what has been a red hot team to sell tickets (a team that I still believe is mostly smoke & mirrors), and also to support Bochy's final year, or if the offers were mediocre and not worth the deals.
Even though Melancon finally started pitching well, IMO dealing him is fine as long as they don't have to eat much of his contract. Until we know how much money they've actually dumped the quality of that deal is up in the air IMO.
Trading Dyson will hurt the team right now as he has really pitched well this year, but they have other guys who can fill that set-up role and it sounds like they got a good young outfielder who is RAKING in AAA and should likely join the big team this year (especially if Slater starts sliding) and they got a couple of young pitchers in that deal as well, one who looks to be doing excellent in A this year.
So now, can they keep winning with all these scraps & hacks? Can Dickerson keep blasting the ball all over the field (can he even stay on the field, with his back issues)? Can Mike Yastrzemski continue playing so well? Can Longoria come back and finally contribute something to earn all HIS money? Can Mauricio Dubon & Scooter Gennett help right now? Can the young starters keep doing well into the dog days of a long, hot summer? Can Buster drive in even 50 RBI's this year?
The hope was to deal Bumgarner & Smith to get some players who could fill the multiple holes they have now & the near future, and by not dealing those two main assets it still doesn't seem that they have any idea who their leadoff and 3/4/5 hitters will be next year. No big whoop, just a few small holes to fill.
They've got some really good prospects that could fill those holes, but they're likely 2 to 3 years away. Oh right, they still have Buster to hit cleanup!
There is still lots of work to be done.
We will see. At least they've made this year interesting.
Looks like ATL will eat all of Melancon's salary so that was a good deal, even though he has been pitching well lately. The Dyson trade will hurt us right now, but I honestly don't expect this team to make the wild card no matter how well they are playing right now. It is mostly the same team as all yr. Hopefully I am wrong and we will have Madbum for the wild card game and beyond. But I really think they should have traded him. Hope this young OF they got for Dyson will pan out. Singe A pitchers are really hit or miss.
Dickerson went on the DL today with an oblique strain. That could be a factor for the rest of the yr.
Scooter Gennett? Not sure who they gave up for him, but I kinda like the way Solano has been playing. Panik might be done.
Yaz has been playing really well. He might be a keeper.
The Shark has been pitching very well. The young'ns struggling a bit but the offense has been good enough to pull them out most days. We'll see how long that lasts.
The hotshot OFer we got for Dyson did not even make our top 30 prospects list.
Only 2 of the guys we got all day ended up on the list.
2B Dubon, that we got for Ray Black(and Pomeranz) checked in as our #8 and RHP Tristan Beck(Melancon) is at 18. Makes the Melancon trade a very good one cause Atl is eating all his salary for the rest of this yr and next.
We now have 4 in the top 100 list. Bart('18Draft) 21, Heliot Ramos('17Draft) 55, Marco Luciano(international signing) 65, and Hunter Bishop('19Draft) 71. Our best showing in a very long time. But we needed to add another one or two to this list.
I still say they should have traded Madbum and Smith. There are I think 5 teams ahead of us in the wildcard race, we have a very tough schedule left, we only have 2 SPs that are pitching well, Dickerson is on the IL with an oblique injury which could last awhile and we traded some major bullpen pieces away. Yaz can't do it all.
Smallish 28-year-old rookies are rarely 'definite' anything, but Yastrzemski is a scrapper with some pop and may settle into a nice 4th outfielder situation on a good team.
Not dealing Bum & Smith is complex, since it IS a business. The team has been playing really well and the owners 'definitely' want to sell some tickets in the next two months. In the Giants situation that is always going to be part of the equation.
More importantly, we don't know the offers they got for either of those guys. Other than the Greinke deal none of the top prospects were dealt around the league, and Grienke isn't a rental like Bum & Smith, so it's hard to say if who the Giants would have gotten would have been real difference makers (ones or twos) or just more prospects. I also think Zaidi would have pretty much lost the locker room if he had dumped either or both. In the real world GM's aren't playing fantasy or video games, and that type of organizational chemistry matters. To me that and a few other things he's done show that he understands he's a leader, not just a deal-maker, and IMO that portends well for the future.
And Mark, personally I couldn't care less about any lists. The guy they got for Dyson is exactly the type of guy Zaidi is looking for; a flexible player who's pretty much ready for the big leagues, has speed, good defense w/ a good arm and pop in the bat. Dyson is a pretender anyway so that one looks good to me.
And getting Atlanta to take ALL the Melancon money is amazing. To me that looks like a clear move to open money for next year's free agent market. GREAT deal there IMO.
I still say the guy they should have traded is Bart, since they would have gotten more for him than for Bum AND Smith, and Buster is fine for the next two/three years as a solid veteran catcher hitting at the lower/bottom of the order. Bart is a great prospect, but they don't need a great young catcher, they need a great young 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, LF, CF, RF, etc. The Bart/Posey situation is lining up to be a VERY tricky issue, especially if Bart is knocking on the door next year.
Still, given all the circumstances I think Zaidi did really well. This team was not going to be fixed in one year or one trading deadline even if they did deal Bum & Smith, it's going to be a while before they're really back, so one step at a time.
Good-bye and good-luck to Joe Panik. Was a great duo there(with Crawford) for many yrs. If his defense had not slipped near as bad as his offense, he might still be around. I imagine someone will pick him up and give him a try.
Giants called up Mauricio Dubon today, along with submariner Tyler Rogers and Joey Rickard (again) and dumped Scooter Gennett.
Good riddance on Gennett. It was quickly apparent why the Reds dumped him for nothing. He may be able to hit some (although he sucked for the Giants) but that guy is a brick at 2nd.
And Jaylin Davis will almost certainly be called up September 1st, as he's not yet on the 40 man roster.
Is it possible he can continue hitting the way he has been?
Oh please, let it be true.
I'm looking forward to seeing him & Dubon play for the big boys. They could REALLY use both of those guys to be real players next year.
Oh, and Cueto will be back in the rotation soon, possibly starting against the Dodgers next week.
Spetember should be fun, and in May I never thought I'd be saying that. It's good that the team is allowing Bochy to go out competing till the end.
I didn't go to yesterday's final Bochy game, but it was as much a farewell to an era, the greatest era of the SF Giants by far, as it was a farewell to Bochy.
Having Bumgarner, who very likely will be wearing different colors next year, come out to pinch-hit against Kershaw was classic and a real good-bye to him. Very classy of Kershaw to throw nothing but fastballs to Bum, knowing well what Bumgarner can do to a fastball. If the Dodgers didn't have a big lead that may not have happened, but it was still cool and Bum ripped one right at the 3rd baseman.
But after the game when all the different players came out to honor Boch, and especially the players from '10, '12 & '14, it felt to me more of a goodbye to the even-year championship era, like an official end to a time that many of us waited decades for and didn't believe we'd ever see.
In a way it was very sad, which was how the reclusive Tim Lincecum referred to it, but it was more a celebration of a special time and a chance for one more ROAR for all those great times. I would have liked to have been there to add my voice for those guys once more, but I was there for almost all the best times of the Bochy era, and that's what I'll remember.
Thanks for all those great memories Boch!
On it goes, and...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watched the ceremony on tv. Was wonderful. My eyes did not stay dry for long.
I thought it was well done and a fine tribute to a hall of fame mgr. And to those great teams.
I hope that we do not sign any free agents this offseason. Maybe an arm or 2 for the bullpen but we are stuck with the infield we have, Starting pitching will be good enough with Cueto and Shark(Who can spell his name), and the kids. Would be nice if Madbum re-signed, but not holding my breath. And I am really excited about what Farhan has done with the OF. Resign Pillar, and we will be OK there.
We get the 13th pick in next Junes draft. 2-3 yrs before the bad contracts are gone. Would like to see them move Belt(without eating his salary but that will be tough) and move Posey to 1B. Hope it is not too late. Maybe re-sign Vogt also. And give Garcia more opportunity.
I got no idea where they will go for a mgr. They wanted Bell but he signed with the Reds. I doubt they will go with anyone on the current(mostly gone) staff. I think a total retooling might be in order.
I am not ready for this season to be over, as I am not ready for this mild summer to be over, but so it goes.
Should be a fun post-season. I think Houston will win it all. Anybody but the dodgers.
Loved it when Bonds grabbed Roberts dodger hat and threw it. Great ceremony all around. Well done Giants.
Lots of talk about a lot of different names, most with past connections to Zaidi, but nothing definitive.
There's been a bit of talk recently about a coach with Houston who isn't available for interviews yet... although it looks like that may change sooner than later after tonight.
Women are freaking that Gabe Kapler is being mentioned, and with his past troubles of covering up/diminishing domestic violence issues it's hard to see him coming to SF, but it seems his often bizarre managing decisions with Philly should be a major concern as well.
We must have faith that this guy Zaidi knows what he's doing. This decision may well be the biggest one he ever makes.
And aside from a few highly questionable pitching moves, Gabe has done an outstanding job. And Farhan continues to pick diamonds out of the rough. And our Hitting/pitching coaches are among the best in baseball. Good job to Giants front office and a GREAT job to the players themselves.
My son, AJ is a Dodgers fan, seeing as that he is being raised in the Los Angeles area. Wife, Kelly is a SF Giants fan too. We battle a lot in our house, but since we live in SoCal, we go to a lot of Dodgers games.
Doubt if the Giants will win more than 84 games this yr, but they may be better than folks think. Looking forward to seeing some of the kids come up. Kyle Harrison especially. The Giants farm system went backwards again according to MLB. We only have 2 in the top 100. Harrison and Luciano. Both should be up this yr sometime and then what? Been a fan of Farhan's so far, but his group needs to get better at drafting and developing talent or we will never be as good as the 2 teams down south. And he got played by both Judge and Correa this offseason. Both, I think, boros clients. Wish he(boros) would just go away. Horrible for the sport.
Our pitching might be OK if one or both of the new guys step up(was a huge blow losing Rodon, why couldn't we resign him? ) and I think the pen should be better than last yr. Bart should be better and the OF will definitely be better. I am going to miss Belt though. Crawford is once again in a contract yr, so maybe he will be more motivated than last yr. He really disappointed me. We'll see what surprises are in store for us. Opening day we'll be in Hawaii.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Well it's not a Wino thread,
Well it's not a Wino thread, but it's up and it sure looks good to see it, so I'll give my long-winded Newberry beginning of the season analysis.
I think in many ways this years team is going to be a lot like last years - inconsistent and often very poor hitting, high quality starting pitching and good defense, with the closing situation much better, so they'll win more of those 2-1, 3-2, 1-0 games they were losing late in games last year.
In my mind they start the season with significant questions from leadoff all the way through #5 in the order. Span was a failure as a leadoff hitter last year (and is barely adequate in CF); will he find his stroke again after two years it being gone, or is he just a fading talent with a weeny arm who doesn't steal bases either way?
Belt at #2 is not a quality situation. He's there because at the moment they have no one better and his on-base percentage is very good because he takes so many walks, but he's a terrible situational hitter who can't bunt and swings & misses/strikes out all the time, so he's no good at advancing runners. That means no hit-and-runs with him and no sac bunts, which means even if Span is getting on base he'll be stuck at 1st a lot because he doesn't steal many bases. Belt will get his hits and hit some HRs, but he's a good #6 or # 7 hitter on a good hitting team, not a #2 hitter.
It will be Pence to start the season at #3, and that could work well as he's been a top hitter with speed over the years, but there are serious questions he needs to answer about his age, his ability to stay healthy and the weak year he had last year - is he a fading, now injury-prone player or is he going to have a rebound season? If it's the latter that will help much of what I'm worried about, but if it's the former they're in BIG trouble there, as they have no one else even close to a quality choice.
Buster at cleanup. No sugar-coating it, he was a weak cleanup hitter last year; little to no power, especially in the 2nd half of the season, very low RBI's for a cleanup hitter, nagging injuries all season (as catchers always have) and most worrisome he was routinely being beaten by fastballs, which has always been his strength. Was last year just an off-season (the main question for most of the offense)? Can he rebound and drive the ball more consistently this year? Can he get in front of & drive those fastballs that he fouled off or just missed last year? Should a guy who's a catcher and has just turned 30 be expected to have those things happen? Buster's a great player, but this slide has been coming for a couple of years now and I seriously doubt he's a middle of the order slugger for a good team any more, but they have no one else. IMO that's trouble.
Crawford at #5 has not worked consistently in the past. He's an excellent overall player and a very clutch hitter more than a great hitter, and the pressure on him to be a consistently productive slugger at #5 is a lot to ask of him and not optimal in my opinion.
Still, on the hopeful side all of those guys have upside and there's reason to hope they'll all have rebound years this year, including Panik, who if he starts hitting consistently again, especially against all the lefties who dominated him last year, will almost certainly win back the #2 spot in the order, which would help things significantly.
On the pessimistic side of the coin, they have empty holes at both 3rd base (Nunez is not a quality starter for a winning team) and left field (Parker isn't the answer and they have absolutely no one else) and those positions are where one would look for help if the top guys are not coming through, so the pressure is REALLY on the top five to rebound offensively.
Starting pitching will be their strength, and it's a BIG strength. Cain will either do well or lose the #5 spot to Blach, who all things being equal has won that job. But he's a kid, Cain is getting $20 million even if he cleans the toilets this year, and Cain has also been a big-time hero and I think he should get this one last chance to show that at 32 with no significant arm issues or loss of velocity he can find his groove again. But I do hope they have a short leash on him and move him out if he's not getting it done.
I think the bullpen will be strong, but losing Will Smith is a major bummer. Still, I think the group will be good, Blach is going to have an effect and Melancon is going to be everything they didn't have last year.
The bench will be much better this year, and I could see Aaron Hill taking that 3rd base job if/when Nunuez keeps swinging for the fences on every pitch and striking out/flying out often, instead of swinging to get on base and using his one good asset, his great speed.
Intangibles - chemistry, coaching, manager, front office, home field advantage are all tops in the league, which is a bigger thing than usually gets credit for and has helped them in a big way all through their run of success since 2010.
So overall, at best I can see them winning 90 - 95 games and pushing the Dodgers for the division, especially if they get good production from #1 - #5 hitters, at worst 85 - 88 wins and pushing for a wildcard spot, and once again if they find themselves in the short-series playoffs they'll be looking good to take a real shot.
But that's a very long ways away, so for right now, LETS GO BUM!!! DOWN WITH THE SNAKES!!!
And as always...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
And as always, thanks for
And as always, thanks for your analysis, Lance. (Yes, without Wino's opening it's a little different, but at least we're on our way. Wino, don't hold back.)
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>I'll give my long-winded,
>>>I'll give my long-winded, 'know-nothing' Newberry beginning of the season analysis.
Finished that for me.
I'm just a fan, and even if I'm wrong about everything it sure is fun to talk ball again.
GG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I don't think anyone knows
I don't think anyone knows what's going to happen, but it's interesting to see what you think about the players.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Dudes I am so stoked
Dudes I am so stoked
Lancey thanks for thy comments as always
GO.....giants
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Has there ever been more
Has there ever been more pressure on a closer?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Sure. There's always pressure
Sure. There's always pressure on closers. The ability to handle it is what makes them closers.
Melancon will be fine, the setup roles we'll see. We sure got spoiled when they had Lopez, Affeldt, and Romo in their primes.
And when Buster was a great hitter.
Those things were all mid-season 2016 form today.
On the positive side, Panik looked very good, as did Nunez.
Too bad they have to sit on this for a day, not playing tomorrow.
On it goes.
GO GIANTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
**Choke**
**Choke**
however - one game doth not a season maketh
go go go BABY go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: |-|/-\|_|_
ooof
ooof
so far this season doth look a lot like last season...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
My son called me this
My son called me this afternoon and said he just happened to be working when Madison Bumgarner came into the hospital after his dirt bike wreck. So he got to do his xrays. I asked him if he tried working him for some tickets, but he said no.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Yeah, just what they needed.
Yeah, just what they needed. Shit, he's their best power hitter!
We'll see what happens. It's a disaster on the surface, but sometimes these type of things shake a team up and rally them together. It's not like they've been playing good baseball so far.
Now Blach gets to show what he's got, which could be a good thing long-term as Cain is looking good so there wasn't going to be an opening in the rotation for the kid. He's a good looking young lefty, and hopefully he'll be a beneficiary of Bum's misfortune. If he struggles then Tyler Beede will get a shot, and he had a strong spring and is doing real well so far in Sacramento.
As long as this isn't a career-affecting type thing they should be able to weather Bum's absence. Their main concern is still the same one they've had since last year; can they find some players who can hit, because just like last season that's what's killing them, and the guys they have now aren't the answer they need.
(Buster can't hit a fastball consistently anymore; now THAT'S a disaster!)
The way Arroyo is hitting so far at AAA they're going to have to find a spot for him on the big team soon, but it's never a good sign if a 21-year-old rookie is the guy a team is looking for to save the day. But then again, Buster wasn't too much older when he saved the day in 2010.
On it goes.
Heal up you Bum, and...
LET'S GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Oh yeah, and Arroyo isn't a
Oh yeah, and Arroyo isn't a catcher, so if he does turn out to be a great hitter he'll have a good chance to be a great hitter much longer than Buster.
GG!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Bad Day at Black Rock
Bad Day at Black Rock
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
hehehehe
hehehehe
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Well, #22 has always been
Well, the number 22 has always been great for the Giants, and it looks like it will be again. Dude looks like the real deal.
And is just what they need.
And Mike Morse!!!
Holy cow.
I love that guy.
Blach looks good, and if we're lucky Span will never play another game for the Giants.
Still, with him or without him they don't have a center fielder or leadoff hitter, although Pence is an interesting if not traditional choice at leadoff. Belt is terrible at #2 and will continue to be mediocre when they finally put him back at #6 or #7 where he belongs, and no matter what they do they just don't have the big hitters in the middle of the order.
But it's a long season and they've gotten blind lucky before, we'll see if they can piece something together again.
It's real nice to see Arroyo on the big team, he looks like a big-league player. It's only been three games and it's asking a lot of a guy who's only 21 to be a difference maker, but he's got that look. His success would also mean that they could get rid of Nunez, which is a very good thing because that guy is a hack.
Lotsa' holes, lotsa' problems, but it's a looooong season and lotsa' things can happen. The front office ignored a lot of those problems and the team has paid for it, but they can rectify that by first acting aggressively right now by clearing out the mistakes like Span & Nunez, and also maybe noticing that they have had no left fielder at all. It's going to be tough for them to fill all those offensive holes, but if they're creative and willing to take some chances and they get more of their famous luck they could still make a run.
A DAMN nice win tonight.
Duck the Fodgers!!!!!!!!!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
they got Morse back?-the
they got Morse back?-the "gorilla" from a couple years ago?
ok- good I turned the game off after the 6th, as usual they score
ha ha
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Morse was just a lark this
Morse was just a lark this year, apparently ready to retire this off-season but while partying at Hunter Pence's wedding he was talked into coming to the Giants camp this spring, just for the hell of it.
He said no matter how he did, if he didn't make the team he'd retire. He was just starting to look good in the spring when naturally he hurt himself, but he felt good about how he was swinging so he went to extended spring training, rehabbed his hamstring and agreed to go to AAA. They called him up yesterday, put him in as a pinch-hitter in the 8th down by a run (thanks to Arroyo's two-run & first ML home run the inning before, off a flat Romo slider) and Morse blasts a HR in his first AB since 2015 to tie the game. The place went nuts. It was freakishly similar to Game 5 of the 2014 NL Championship series.
The guy brings tons of positive energy, and he's got a way of coming up huge in huge moments. KEEP THAT GUY AROUND!!!
Keep grinding Giants.
GGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
(No subject)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Yeah, it's been a painful
Yeah, it's been a painful grind.
It seems that everything I worried about in my long-winded babble up there before the season has gone as badly or worse than I feared, and the few things I thought would be strong have gone badly as well.
Right now the only bright spot is Christian Arroyo, who is showing that he's a real player, but it's bad when a 21-year-old is the guy carrying the team.
At this point I'm hoping they just bring up a couple of other young guys who are doing well in AAA and plug 'em in. I'd rather watch kids with talent play badly than guys like Nunez and Belt, who are both just bad.
Belt in particular has been awful, yet they keep plugging him in at #2 every day. He gets his one or two walks a game but strikes out on balls right down the middle on his other ABs. It amazes me that pitchers throw him anything close to off the plate; it's probably just that they're trying to put it right in the middle and that's too odd for them.
Guys I would like to see just gone right now... Brandon Belt, Eduardo Nunez, Denard Span, Derrick Law.
It's nice to see Buster hitting some shots lately, apparently he's made some adjustments in his swing to help him be quicker on fastballs. That guy is a true hero, but as the summer grinds on will it last? Or will it matter?
Oh it goes.
Keep fighting boys!!!!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Arroyo got the big hit
Arroyo got the big hit yesterday- I wouldn't call that carrying the team...but he's getting there.
Belt sucks- always has as far as I'm concerned. Never seems to come through in the clutch-- but I don't get to see most of the games.
Pretty much an off year/ rebuilding year at this point - too many problems. Sorry to be negative but I don't see them coming back from any of this - not this year.
But go go Giants
Just hope the rockies pitching implodes-- it should sooner or later.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I should have said "It's bad
I should have said "It's bad when a 21-year-old is the one bright spot." But Arroyo IS showing that he's got the mojo to be an impact player.
His hits have come in big, clutch spots in games, and he was completely schooled the other night by De Grom, striking out four straight times, which especially under the big lights of New York City can put many rookies in a spiral, but he comes back with a couple of solid games right after and had that huge hit yesterday. He's playing very good defense as well. When Crawford comes back this weekend Arroyo will be the starting 3rd baseman for the foreseeable future.
The only thing that might change that is if they decide to trade Panik at the deadline if they're still bouncing off the bottom in July and move Arroyo to 2nd. Panik is a fine player and I hope they keep him, but there are many teams that like him and the Giants could ream someone and get more than he's worth. They don't have much else that's worth much in a sell-mode trade. Pense might be worth something good if he's playing well at the deadline, but they are going to have to make some hard decisions if they want to stay competitive over time. They've got a few good prospects but not many and they already have a huge payroll because of buying so many free agent pitchers lately (and that damned extension they gave to Belt a couple of years ago) so they can't hope for many quick fixes by free agency.
As for Belt, he's always been a good player to have as long as he doesn't have to be relied on as a front-line slugger. He's an excellent defensive 1st baseman, runs the bases well, has power and he does walk a ton. But the Giants don't have the 3/4/5 sluggers to cover for a hitter like Belt, and since last July his hitting has really gone in the tank. They might be able to get something for him in a trade, but not nearly as much as they could have three years ago, when they should have traded him instead of signing him to an extension. But the organization has always loved him and it seems they have always believed he would blossom into a true top line power hitter.
Wrong.
I think they should look to sell if they're still sucking after the All-Star game, but I'm also not completely giving up on this year yet. The pitchers are better than they've been and there are too many good ballplayers on this team for them to be this bad. Plus it's baseball, where anything can happen.
GGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Play the game! GO GIANTS !!!!
Play the game! GO GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Well, things are getting a
Well, things are getting a little better.
They're starting to play like they can.
And Arroyo played excellent at 2nd tonight, a position he has rarely if ever played.
Five in a row. Buster ditching his high leg kick that he's been known for has really helped him, and the pitching is starting to come back.
Blach!
There's plenty of time to get back into this thing.
Watch out that they don't deal Panik.
I hope not, but they could.
A long way to go and still issues, but least they're playing good ball now.
LET'S GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
what high leg kick?
what high leg kick?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: |-|/-\|_|_
nice little streak... enjoyed
nice little win streak... enjoyed watching the last few innings after the warriors game. It looked like it was going to be some ole Giants torture, but then it was a one two three 9th. good stuff.
GO GIANTS!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Who are these guys?
Who are these guys?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
what say giants fans- did
what say giants fans- did Posey do the right thing standing like a statue?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Harper is a douche.
Harper is a douche.
Posey wussed out.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
If Posey gets suspended,
If Posey gets suspended or injured, really hurts the team. Strickland is a big boy that can take care of himself. He took it upon himself to hit harper(who is a douche) and no-one doubted he could handle himself. Most of the team on the field stayed out of it.
Good thing that pussy does not have to throw helmets for a living. And Strickland cocked him one good. Fuck him. He wants old school? He got it.
I think Strick a little weak on why he hit him though. He surely had the best of him in 2014 playoffs. But suck it up and get him next time. I think a lot of that was going thru Posey's and the others minds.
I don't think Strick should get suspended but he probably will. Harper should sit for a week for throwing the helmet and charging the mound. He hit him on the butt for christs sake. Harper, you still win until you charge the mound. You should have smiled at him to rub in the 2 HRs. THAT would have been praise-worthy.
Go Giants!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
WTF????????
WTF????????
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
http://www.msn.com/en-us
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/was-buster-posey-told-to-stay-out-of...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Guess it's OK if Strickland
Guess it's OK if Strickland told him to let Harper charge the mound.
Still, never saw that before in close to 60 years watching baseball.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Well, I for one am glad Posey
Well, I for one am glad Posey did not jump in and get injured or suspended. It was between the 2. Buster said what he did to protect Bochy and/or others from reprimand. If they knew Bochy knew, he might get fined or suspended also.
But why did Strick get more time than harper?
Harper is a fucking douche.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: cb
Six games is harsh.
Six games is harsh.
Randy Johnson would have been suspended for half of his career if that was the norm.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I was going to step back in
I was planning on stepping back in here at some point soon, expecting a trade or two to give a reason for a reckoning here after this epic fall, but damn, they're going to sign the Panda back? That got my attention.
Of all the things that would have surprised me about this season, telling me that the team would bring Pablo Sandoval back would have been right at the top of the list.
It's a minor league contract that costs them nothing, he'll certainly start at AAA (or maybe even AA for an added dose of humility) and they stink to high heaven and are at the very bottom of the league, so I guess why not, but it still seems odd... gimmicky, and a little desperate.
Then again, they've at least on the short end found some gold this year picking this relief pitcher Sam Dyson off the same scrap heap of stink. He's made some mechanical changes and is pitching really well for them right now - another save today - and they may have found something really good for free there, so maybe they're hoping for the same thing with Fat Panda.
Still, a much as that guy did for the San Francisco Giants, and he did A LOT, after the way he left the team I would/will be lukewarm at best to see him back at 3rd & King in in a Giants uniform, even for just a wave.
Unless of course he regains the magic (In a bottle??? Again???) and starts hitting ropes, then what the hell, let's go Giants. He's not old and I can't believe he'll sleepwalk his way through a chance to get back on a big league field after his nuclear meltdown fail in Boston so we'll see, and really, nothing else is happening for them now but to play for pride.
As fans these are the days it's important to support the team, so...
GO GIANTS!
Really,
GET YOUR DAMN FACE OFF THE FLOOR AND GOOOOOOO GIANTS!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Panda's no problem for me if
Panda's no problem for me if they can get him back cheap- whatever. They could use a little more power- or a LOT more power- and remember- they wouldn't have won it all in 2012 & 2014 without him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Yeah. Panda....... Minor
Yeah. Panda....... Minor league contract hurts us not, and maybe we can humiliate him some more.
Why the hell have we not traded half a dozen guys? We really need to replenish one of the very worst systems in the game.
This team is not winning again as is.
Cueto is gone after the season.
Cane's contract comes off the books. But Madbum will get a huge raise soon.
A yr or 3 of rebuilding is necessary. We had 3 in 5 yrs. That should hold us fans over until we rebuild. LA is maybe best team in BB right now(and has a super system that just keeps cranking out studs), Col. and Arizona are strong and getting stronger. Now is the time to rebuild and I am afraid they don't get it.
Would not trade Crawford, Posey or Madbum (But might dream about what they could get for him). Anybody else should be available. Maybe not Blach. Both Dyson and Melancon should bring something back. Who cares who would close out the yr. Give it to Strickland.
Tired of seeing Belt either walk or strikeout with the game on the line. Maybe somebody could use him. Would hate to part with Panik, but lets see what offers we get. Can't tell me someone could not use Nunez, although unlike you Tom I really like him on the team. Doubt they could get much for Pence or Span, but lets hear it.
I still watch every game and root for them to win, but I also would like the first pick in the draft for a couple yrs. So if they dump and start playing mostly kids, I am all for it.
I think we might have found our left fielder at least until he got injured. Gorkys is playing very well right now. I could see him in CF for the rest of this yr and maybe next. The kid from Korea is a fine bench player. Would like to see him heavy in the mix the rest of the yr.
Give up on Gillaspie. We paid him for the post season effort, now let him go.
The Shark should draw interest, he has been pitching well lately.
Could we pay someone to take Mat Moore? I thought he was a great addition when they got him, but I was wrong. Time to move on.
Go Giants!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Moore showed us what he's
Moore's still young, he showed us what he's about when it counted and he's on a friendly contract so I'd have to think he's staying, and I hope he does.
At this point Nunez is probably their best trade piece and he's a likely gonner, so it's good he's playing well right now. I still say he's a sloppy, good player on a bad team type, so ultimately good riddance.
Nobody sees Gillaspie as a starter and he's a nasty bat off the bench, they should keep him.
Strickland is almost certainly gone. He's having a good year and relief pitchers who are having good years are always commodities this time of year. I don't like losing him because he's getting better and he'll probably still be good in a couple of years, but that's why he's worth something now. Hopefully something more than he's worth.
Next year Belt's contract gets HEAVY, so he's likely not going anywhere. Still, as annoying as he is, he's the type of player who can quietly help a good team as long as he's not expected to be a central figure. He's a very good 6th or 7th hitter on a good all-around team (like a lot of their hitters).
Cueto is interesting, because if he were pitching like he did last year he'd for sure opt out of his contract and go free agent again, but with the way this season has gone for him there's no guarantee that he'd get a better offer than the $84 million he's owed on his currant contract. I say gamble that he won't opt out and don't trade him unless it's a knockout offer, which I'd be surprised at this point they'd get. He strikes me as a guy who plays big in big situations. In other words, a keeper.
If they're lucky they'll get some decent offers for Samardzija and (juiced?) Span - dude's been a completely different player than he's been for three years since coming back from his latest injury, funny how that works in the 21st Century - and maybe they could steal something really good for Panik, but overall what they have to offer isn't that valuable for big-league ready players, and that's all the Giants will go for.
The Giants will never give up and go full rebuild, and they don't have the pieces to do it well even if they wanted to. We'll just have to hope that the humble pie they're eating now will wake them up and force them to be creative, make a few smart deals soon and figure out how to get some middle-of-the-order sluggers along with a few other winners and let's get back at it.
And Duck the Fodgers.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Strickland to Nats .....HA !
Strickland to Nats .....HA !
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
They should have got way more
They should have got way more for Nunez. Sox's 18th and another unrated? We need Sabean to slip back into GM. Or new blood altogether. Our best chip and it does not improve anything.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Becomes the 17th ranked
Becomes the 17th ranked prospect in the worst system in BB. Weak shit.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Nunez wasn't worth much,
Nunez wasn't worth much, especially since I don't think there were any other teams in real need of a (shaky) 3rd baseman/bad shortstop.
He's a glorified bench player, a guy who looks good on a bad team.
Their system is virtually empty of talent and this was a way to add some, and if the Giants love him and want him and his sloppy play and mistakes at always the worst time they can buy him back next year.
If you're looking for a big splash they'll have to get something more impressive dealing Cueto and/or Samardzija, and even then I don't believe they'll get that much back for either of them as things stand right now.
And common' Mark, do you think Sabean isn't still in the middle of every decision they make? Lil' Bobby has the title and does the grunt work, but Sabean is definitely in the room and still in charge when the decisions are made.
Their mistakes, complete lack of long-term plans and general lack of vision and attention to details that has put them in this position can be clearly traced as far back as 2012, and despite all the continuing & growing evidence to the contratry they still are holding desperately tight to the idea that Buster is still an effective middle of the order hitter and Pense & Belt are dangerous offensive weapons and that those guys along with some minor re-tooling will put them right back in the hunt next year.
That's Sabean's delusion at least as much as it is Evans.
IMO it's time for a bit of a purge, if not a complete overhaul, and in this discussion I'm not talking about the players on the field. Over the years I've come to appreciate Bochy more & more, but he's been around a looooooog time now, and sometimes a new voice is a good thing even if the old one is still valid.
I wouldn't mind at all seeing Sabean, Evans & Bochy kindly shown the door, and get fresh faces & ideas coming from that end of the organization.
But there's no way that's going to happen, because based on their general arrogance and a ten day run of solid play at the end of last season (a run that still collapsed for all the reasons they sucked then & now) they continue to refuse to accept that much is wrong and all of this season and the 2nd half of last season is just an aberration.
Whatever, fuck 'em all.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I tend to agree with you on
I tend to agree with you on several things Tom.
Bochy is tired and I would not be surprised if he retires after this season. Next at latest. Shake up upstairs is due for sure. But it ain't gonna happen.
And I just looked at the Giants contracts for this yr and the coming few. We are stuck with a lot of guys until after next yr. So I think they will give it one more try with this team. Although the obvious holes are so huge and they already traded away anybody worth anything in their minors.
Looking bleak for at least the next 3 yrs for us. And that is if they come to their senses after next yr turns out similar to this one. Although this is the worst SFG record at this point of the season in history. They need to do something special with the next few yrs high draft picks. They usually pick people nobody ever heard of.
dodgers look stacked for at least the next 10 yrs. Both Arizona and Colorado are on the way up. We can't even beat the padres.
Like I said I still watch the games. I just hope the draft picks are worth it.
See you Thursday night? Gfish and I are going. Heading down there early afternoon
Go Giants!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Wow, I thought the GD night
Wow, I thought the GD night was Friday and it was completely off my radar. That game is always a good time, and tix are $6.00 on stubhub right now. I may just find myself up there on Thursday, after seeing Phil rip it up in the little room the night before. And it looks like Ty Blach is pitching, I like that kid.
You know where to look for me once the game starts. I love my semi-private balcony and if I'm there I'll be easy enough to spot.
As for our boys, as always I feel like if a team is going to suck it's better that they REALLY SUCK so no excuses can be made. In the Giants case there is no question that they're REALLY SUCKING, and continuing on the SUCKING path they were on last season, so I'm not sure even with the Giants current super forgiving fan base how far their BS excuses and "re-tooling, not re-building" line will fly next year. I can't believe people will accept Belt, Posey, Pence in the middle of the order again next year.
Still, I'm a hopeless hoper; I understand they're stuck with some contracts, but they have some decent pieces and one or two interesting young kids. Their big problem for a fast turnaround is that three of the four main areas they need to upgrade are the hardest areas to correct - top quality leadoff hitter, #3 hitter & #4 hitter. In those three areas they got nothin' heading into next year, and those holes are not conducive to quick fixes, and often take years to fix properly.
Depth in the bullpen is their other major hole, but that isn't as hard to correct. Not necessarily easy, but not as hard as those all-important offensive pieces.
But as Giants fans of a certain age we've been here LOTS of times before. The difference now is at least we can let our eyes glaze over when Kontos gives up a grand slam to blow a lead for good ol' Matt Cain (against the FuckinA's no less) and remember the good times.
And god damn, those were GOOD TIMES!!!
If I have to I can live off those 'till the end of my time and be satisfied.
But of course I'd like a few more.
On it goes.
Fuck 'em all...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: .............
Nunez has been a welcome
Nunez has been a welcome addition...but, that job has always been Devers in 2018...looks like it may already be his, which relegates Nunez to bench...and between him and a healthy Brock Holt, they can cover any and all positions except catcher
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Nunez is a free agent at the
Nunez is a free agent at the end of the year. Not surprising he's hitting well, he was rolling when the Giants dumped him, and if he carries that through the season and into the post-season he'll likely be a hot property and score a big contract next year.
He's a talented veteran player, but watch out for a bone-head mistake in a crucial moment though, like over-sliding an easily stolen base, getting thrown out at 3rd with two outs, forgetting how many outs there are/not watching his base coaches or making an error at the worst time.
Still, good to see him doing well for a team where it matters.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: .............
^ , oh, so he ll fit right in
^ , oh, so he ll fit right in , then, lol
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Good to see you last night
Good to see you last night Tom. Was too short. What a great game.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
It was a HOOT!
It was a HOOT!
For one night we Giants fans got to just whoop it up right from the start, and even though it was way too short (they go to all the trouble of setting up a band on the dugout, have them standing around for ten minutes and then only have time to rush through three short songs, silly) it's very cool to hear some live versions of GD songs at the ol' ballpark, and Barry Sless on the big screen to boot!
There were two young teenage girls sitting in front of me during the short Moonalice bit. It was fun to see them frowning at first, then start grooving to They Love Each Other.
I had a great time last night. I saw a bunch of old friends, made some new ones and apparently even got on the Giants TV feed of the game for a moment when they took a shot of the guy next to me with a GD jacket.
Far out.
Thanks for coming by Mark, always great to see you.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Go giants - game on ESPN
Go giants - game on ESPN tonight - must see Panda
Ha hA
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Tim
STANTON
STANTON
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>>STANTON<<<
>>>STANTON<<<
If you're talking about how great he is, he is great.
If you're talking about the Giants trading for him, that seems impossible, considering how much more other big-market teams have in their minors to offer.
If the new owners decide to deal him they'll want a huge haul along with alot of that crazy contract to go with him, so the Giants would almost certainly have to include Bumgarner to even have a chance to out-bid the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, etc. And for a number of reasons I just don't believe at this point the Giants will consider giving up the Bum.
But Giancarlo Stanton would be just a bit of an upgrade from Jarrett Parker, that's for sure.
Plus, he has almost the entire team name in his first name, which is cool.
I think the Giants can compete again next year, but they'll have to be real smart and get a little lucky as well. IMO a blockbuster deal to land one player isn't in their best interests for a fast turnaround, and a fast turnaround is what they're going to be looking for.
Common' Giants, be real smart, and get LUCKY!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
No, we don't need to sell the
No, we don't need to trade the farm for one guy.
In fact, we need to sell sell sell. I still root for them to win each game, but I am also wanting that first draft pick. And I want it again after next yr. Not the time in my opinion, to buy anyone. Or trade for anyone but prospects.
I can go a couple yrs without the playoffs. Hell, we had 3 WS wins in 5 yrs. We were the best in baseball for that time. Right now we are the worst.
I might consider trading madbum for the right package of prospects. Like to keep Blach, Stratton Beede for next yrs rotation. Goodbye Cueto. And goodbye Shark if they can get prospects for him. Not holding my breath that they can offload Moore, but please try. Goodbye Span and Pence if they can get prospects. Goodbye Pablo just on principles(but he would be a cheap solution at 1B if they can trade Belt). Goodbye Belt if they can... . Bring up Arroyo and plant him at 3B. Crawford Panic Posey for the next couple yrs. I think Parker has shown a little promise. I loved Slater before he got hurt. I love Gorkys in CF next yr. They could not be as bad as this yr, and we need to see who in our system can play.
Just my 2 cents.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
There is no way they're going
There is no way they're going that way Mark, and honestly I don't think they have to. They still have a solid group of talent to build around, and things can change so drastically in baseball.
They may deal the Shark, but it will have to be a very strong offer because again, right or wrong I don't think there's any doubt that their focus is to compete next year, and I think that it's almost a lock that Cueto will be back (which IMO is a very good thing) which means that if Cueto is healthy next year and they still have Samardzija (who has had a much better year than his stats indicate) they will once again open the season with a strong top-of-the-rotation starting staff, which is a good place to start competing.
Cueto's issues with blisters and then a sore arm came at exactly the worst time for him, as now teams will once again be wary of him, which means it would almost certainly be foolish for him to opt out of his fat contract with the Giants, which means it's likely to almost certain that Cueto is in orange & black next year.
His arm soreness is the same as what he had two years ago which allowed the Giants to get him a bit under-market, and he was outstanding for the Giants the next year. He's not that old and when healthy, factoring in his knowledge, technical skill and competitive nature he is one of the best overall starting pitchers in baseball and makes for a GREAT one-two punch with the Bum.
And there is no way they're giving up on Moore, as well they shouldn't, because he's also young and has all the tools to be a difference maker as a starter, and he's also very cheap and will be for two more years. It would be ridiculous for them to give up on him, then watch him get it together and dominate for someone else. He's staying, with lots of reason for optimism that he'll put his talent together.
Then you add in Blach and that's a top of the league five man rotation. A few things will have to go right for that to happen, but none of that is blind hope or pie in the sky delusion.
If Melancon gets right, along with the hope that Dyson got his groove back this year (and the way he's pitched for the Giants this year that's not blind hope either) they start next season with a very good back end of a bullpen as well.
What they need most is a couple of middle of the order run producers and a leadoff hitter. If they're smart they can repair that well enough to compete with a couple of additions, especially if Buster can continue to at least hit his little singles enough to bat 5th effectively.
I'm not sure why the organization doesn't see Tomlinson as a starting quality leadoff hitter, they must not like something about his swing (yet he continues to be a pesky hitter involved offensively in every game he plays) or they don't think he can play defense at 2nd well enough to start.
They also may be getting intoxicated on Span's significant offensive resurgence lately (juice anyone?) and may consider keeping him at leadoff and putting him in LF. Meh to that I say, but he has been hitting WAY better than he has in years. Funny how that can work in the 21st century.
Either way, I think the most likely impact guys to be traded this winter are Panik and Samardzija. Panik because he's still young, an excellent defensive player who has shown an ability to hit, and they have other options at 2nd, including Miguel Gomez, who has looked real good at the plate this year.
I don't think any of this optimistic attitude is a lock by any stretch, but I also don't think any of that is just false hope either, and I'm certain all of that is what the organization is thinking/hoping for.
The one thing that's for sure IMO is that there is NO WAY they are going to just give up and re-build.
And as long as they're smart and get a little lucky I'm OK with that.
GO GIANTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Hope you went to the game
Hope you went to the game today Tom. I wish I could have been there. Great 5 innings from our departing hero. Plagued once again by poor run support. Deserved to win. Trying to figure if my tears were from sadness or joy in the sendoff that he got. Either way, well done. Well done Matt, well done Bochy and the Giants, and well done Giants fans!
As of this writing, and I am watching the game in the 6th inning, tied 1-1, the Giants and the Tigers are tied for the first pick. I was hoping to get Matt a win, but since that is gone, hope they lose this one and tomorrow. No threat of losing 100, so that is good.
Next yr, I would love to see an outfield of Slater, Hernandez and Parker. Let them play most of the yr and see who they are. Throw Mac in as 4th OF. Span had a good second half, but he is not their future in CF. I love Pence, but he is done. Maybe trade both?
Posey splitting time at catcher with Hundley if they bring him back, or with their number 8 prospect Aramis Garcia. And with Chris Shaw at first base. If they resign Hundley then I think they should still bring up Garcia. See who he is. Otherwise no catchers anywhere to be found in minors. I doubt Federovich is their future. Time for Belt to go be a superstar with someone else. Maybe in Col or Cincy or someplace he can hit home runs. Don't want to break up Panik and Crawford. Arroyo at 3rd. Pablo has fucked up my plans by hitting well last couple weeks. I don't think the front office can pass up Pablo for free(vitually). Maybe put him in the mix at first and spell Arroyo at 3rd. Keep Kelby as main utility guy.
Pitching staff is cnfusing. I want to give Stratton and Blach and hopefully Beede a chance to show they belong. I think Stratton has shone. Blach had a great 3/4 yr. Of Course Madbum stays. I think Samardjia has turned the corner and would return a bounty in a trade. If he is signed for 2 or more yrs then maybe keep him as number 2 or 3. Cueto has been a horrible bust. I hope he decides to leave but of course he won't. Maybe trade him. Moore really likes to pitch at ATT but is atrocious on the road. Not sure about him.
Trade Meloncon as soon as we can. Bullpen? Dyson, Smith(hopefully coming back strong after surgery), this Moronta kid looks pretty good(despite giving up the HR today). Time for Strickland, Law, Okert and several others to step up or go home. Crick and Gearin I think have earned a spot.
Bu the main thing is we don't have to win next yr either. Lets do a minor rebuild. and come back strong in 2019. We will know who we have and who we need to buy. Buy FA's instead of trading prospects. They can afford it.
2-1 Giants in the seventh, Tigers play tonight.
GO Giants!
On further research, Garcia my be a yr or 2 away yet. Maybe call up feddy for the season.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
.
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Forever a Giant
Oct 2 2017
Photo By D. Ross Cameron/USA TODAY Sports
Matt Cain
Pitcher / San Francisco Giants
When I was about six or seven, back in Alabama, this kid from the local high school came over one day to help my dad out with some work around the house. He played on the baseball team — and somewhere in between the work, I guess, he and my dad got to talking.
He was a pitcher, a pretty good one if I remember. And my dad, he’s one of these guys where, you know, nothing feels like small talk. Just a very thoughtful individual, and a great listener. Loves to learn new things about other people. So when he found out this kid was a pitcher, he started asking him a thing or two about it. What do you like about pitching? and How do y’all make the ball move like that? and that sort of thing. And of course the kid had a ball handy — Rule No. 1 about baseball: someone always has a ball handy — and before you know it, he starts showing my dad some of the different grips that pitchers use.
Showed him two, in particular: the four-seam, and the two-seam.
“Well isn’t that wild,” I imagine my dad saying, before filing it away.
And then it was later that very same night, I think, that my dad came around and said he had something to show me. Something pretty cool he’d learned, just earlier, from that kid from the high school who’d been helping him out.
“Want to know how those pitchers get the ball to do all that?”
And then he showed me the two grips: the four-seam, and the two-seam.
Did you ever get shown a magic trick as a kid — maybe the nickel pulled out from behind your ear, something like that. And it’s like: If you’re just young enough, and the trick’s done just right … it’s about the greatest thing you’ve ever seen? You see that trick once, and your mind is racing. And your head is spinning. And now all you can think about is wanting to see it done again, and again, and again? Well that’s really how it was for me with those grips on that ball. As soon as I saw it once, man … I was hooked. My mind went racing. My head started spinning. And I just wanted to see it done — wanted to do it — again, and again, and again.
You grip the baseball, just like that … and you throw.
I thought it was about the greatest thing I’d ever seen in my life.
I thought it was magic.
As of today, I am officially retired from the game of baseball.
I’m not one for big spectacles, or for putting any sort of spotlight on myself, or really for talking about myself much at all. But I still wanted to take a moment over the weekend and write this — just as a thank you. I wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped me along the way in my career, and who has made an impact on me throughout my life as a ballplayer.
And when we’re talking about my life as a ballplayer — I guess I’ve been lucky enough so that, you know, it means we’re pretty much just talking about one thing.
The San Francisco Giants.
Photo By Brad Mangin
A lot of people have asked me why it meant so much to me — to play for one team, and one team only. And the truth is, while it was happening, I never really had a good answer. I knew it’s what I wanted … I’m just not exactly sure I knew why. But as these last few days have come and gone — with making the decision, and making the announcement about my last start, and pitching for the last time, and suiting up for the last time, all of that — I think everything has come a little more into focus.
I think I’ve realized that, what I’ve been able to build for myself here in San Francisco … it’s just so much bigger than baseball. It’s bigger than the innings I’ve pitched, or the games I’ve won — or even the championships we’ve brought home. It’s something that you can’t measure by looking at my stats, and you can’t understand by looking at my scouting reports.
I think I’ve realized that what I gave you guys is 15 years of baseball.
And that what you gave me back is an entire life.
I got to build an entire life here in San Francisco. I got to grow into a man, and a husband, and a father. I got to become someone, and something, that looking back — and now, in another way, looking forward — I can truly be proud of.
I got to become Matt Cain, Pitcher, San Francisco Giants.
And I’ll always be in your debt for that.
Photo By Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
When I think about what being a Giant has meant to me, there are so many moments that stand out.
There’s June 4, 2002: draft day.
I was a late bloomer, and it was only when I was a senior in high school that I’d started to get much attention. So me and my parents, you know — we weren’t really equipped for what was about to happen, I don’t think, in a lot of ways. I remember, for the draft, it was this really small group of six of us — just me, my mom, my dad, his mom, my uncle, and our Yorkie-poo dog — huddled up around this desktop computer at my parents’ house in Somerville, Tennessee. And we’re all sitting there together, just trying to get the dang dial-up internet to work so we could watch it online. And we couldn’t at the start — the internet was too slow, and it just wouldn’t connect — so I think we ended up missing the first 10 or so picks.
And I just remember my mom in her chair, writing down all the picks by hand as they came in. And then it got to the 25th pick, and they announced my name, and my mom started to write it — and then all of a sudden, it was like, wait a minute.
That’s my name.
I just got picked, in the first round, by the San Francisco Giants.
I’m a Giant.
There’s August 26, 2005: The day that I got called up.
I was winding down my season in Fresno, hanging out with a buddy, Kevin Frandsen, and we were actually heading down to drop off my truck — taking it in to get it lifted with some big tires, have some suspension put on it. Not even thinking about baseball at all, at that point. It was more like, alright, it’s fall — time to take this truck out on a road trip, go do some duck hunting or whatever we can get ourselves into, and just, you know … have ourselves an offseason.
But as we’re taking the truck in, I get a call from this phone number I don’t recognize. Random 415 number. Pick it up. “Yep, this is Matt.”
“Hey, how’s it going? Bobby Evans here, with the Giants. Just wanted to congratulate you. You’re getting the call-up to the big leagues.”
And I didn’t even know how to process that. Just … wasn’t expecting it at all. And I’m such a kid at the time, I’m still just 20, that my first thought is about how I’ve got all these plans I’ve made for these next few weeks, trucking and duck hunting and all of that — and now that’s all up in smoke. But fortunately I at least knew enough to stop myself before I blurted any of that out loud. And instead I was just, like, “Thanks — thank — thank you!”
Then I canceled my plans, and I packed a bag.
There’s May 6, 2007: The day that Timmy got called up.
I guess that might seem strange to include here, in a letter about my career, but to me that day really meant something — and looking back, really has come to represent a lot. Because I think that was the day this era of Giants baseball went from being about a team in transition, that was losing a lot … to a team in transition, that was building something special.
Photo By Marcio Jose Sanchez/AP Images
It was such a cool mix on those teams: We had me and Timmy, these two pitchers both young enough to basically still be in college … and then we also had this great group of veterans, who really helped to show us the way. And that’s no accident, you know? That’s the Giants culture, that’s what they do. They welcome guys in, and — whether you’re a rookie or a vet or anywhere in between — they set you up to succeed.
I just think about all of the special guys who I crossed paths with during those first few years in San Francisco. Jason Schmidt, just talking to him, a pitcher with his résumé who also happens to be this great person — that was huge for me when I got called up. Randy Winn, Rich Aurilia, Mike Matheny, Matt Morris … man, all these guys. They took a liking to me, and a genuine interest in me, even when they didn’t have to.
And speaking of people who didn’t have to: I’ll tell you who was one of the best, nicest guys to me, during those first few years, straight up — it was Barry. He’d sit me right by him on the plane, and man … he would just talk the game to you, so caringly, through his eyes. And of course he’s on this next level, so even when he’s trying to explain things to you, it’s a little, like, O.K., well, that’s why you’re the best ever, and I’m just a kid — but even in those moments, honestly, he was as understanding as could be. And he protected me. Whether it was from other teams, and giving me advice on how to deal with certain situations, or it was from guys on our own team who he felt were coming down too hard on me … truly very few people were there for me, at the beginning of my career, like Barry.
And I’ve got to thank him for that — I’ve got to thank all of those veterans for that.
And I know Timmy would say the same.
There’s the day I met Chelsea.
To say that I wouldn’t have been able to do this without Chelsea is the understatement to end all understatements. A baseball player’s life is a weird one, and Chelsea’s been so much more than my wife over these last eight years. She’s been my rock. She’s been so strong, and so supportive: From the highest highs of pitching lights out in the World Series, to the lowest lows of getting left off the playoff roster … Chelsea’s been there for me. And more important than that, she’s been there for our family — especially in those moments when my schedule wouldn’t allow me to be. I’m so grateful.
Photo By Brad Mangin
Chelsea has also been instrumental in helping me to understand what my relationship with this city could be. And by that I mean — Chelsea made me realize what it is that makes a city feel like a home: a community.
From the opportunity we’ve had to support senior citizens and the critically ill with Project Open Hand and the Giant Race, to our involvement with the NOH8 Campaign opposing Proposition 8, to our work with the Giants Community Fund and Junior Giants, Until There’s a Cure, Sunrise Horse Rescue, PAWS, Strikeouts for Troops, Project Night Night and all the special kids and families we’ve met through Make-A-Wish Greater Bay Area….
What Chelsea and I have been able to accomplish in the community, and with the community, over these last several years — it’s meant as much to me as any world championship.
There’s June 13, 2012: the perfect game.
Not going to call anyone from S.F. a liar, but I’ll just say this: There were about 42,000 people in attendance that day.
And in the last five years, I think I’ve met all 100,000 of them.
And finally: There’s November 1, 2010, and October 28, 2012, and October 29, 2014. If you’re reading this letter, then I’m guessing you already know what those dates stand for. But if you don’t, then honestly, even better — look ’em up. I won’t spoil it for you, except to say that our Giants teams.…
We did a little bit of winning this decade.
Photo By Jeff Chiu/AP Images
So, you know — thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to the best organization and the best fans in all of sports. You are what makes this franchise great.
And you are what made my life in baseball possible.
It hit me on Saturday when I woke up.
Tapped the alarm clock, got out of bed, hopped in the shower….
I think it’s the routine that gets you. All those years of routine, all those years of waking up on my start day and going through the same set of pregame habits. There’s a real comfort in routine — I think that’s probably why we do it. But when it comes time for that last time … man, there’s nothing “routine” about it.
This is my last alarm clock on a start day. This is my last shower on a start day. This is my last drive to the ballpark — last time heading over that bridge, last time pulling into that parking lot — on a start day.
This is my last start day.
It hit me, and it kept hitting me, throughout that morning.
I got out of my car, and walked into the ballpark. Me and that park … we’ve been through a lot together. But I told myself that I wasn’t going to treat this start, this day, like anything out of the ordinary. I promised myself that I wasn’t going to give in to the nostalgia.
Then I went and broke that promise pretty much instantly. I got to the clubhouse, and the TVs — I mean, you can’t make this stuff up: They were all playing this packaged loop of my “greatest moments.” You know — all of my career highlights, sequenced from start to finish, running on every TV in the room.
And of course the guys are loving it.
Some of the younger guys are coming up to me, during the older clips, like, “Matt, Matt — why’re you wearing number 43, what’s the deal?” And so I told them a story involving me and this guy named Moises Alou — a great, great player from before they were born. (Just kidding, Moises.) They’re all letting me hear it when the TV flashes to my old leg-kick I used to do, or shows me going up against some hitter “from the ’90s.” And of course (of course) there’s Gardy, giving me the hardest time of everyone, for how much harder I used to throw back in the day. And he’s just loving it: Every second, it’s, “Matt, wow, bringing the cheese, I’m into it.” Or, “I didn’t know you used to hand out three fastballs an at-bat.” It’s a lot of fun. But even in that moment, watching those clips, I don’t think it quite hit me that this was the end.
Photo By Ezra Shaw/Getty Images
It wasn’t until Rags came up to me, I think, that it really started to sink in.
Dave, I’m lucky enough to say, has been my pitching coach for my entire career. And I owe so much of my success to him — more than I could ever fit into a letter like this. Rags has just been a special, special presence in my life. And so when he came up to me, you know, at first I thought he was going to want to talk about the elephant in the room — that this would be our last ever meeting as pitcher and pitching coach — and maybe get a little emotional. And I think, just sort of anticipating that, I started to get a little emotional myself.
But then, in perfect Rags fashion, he pivoted — and just started going on about the Padres lineup for that day. You know — like it was any other day, and any other start. And so the two of us … we’re just sitting there, by my locker, talking shop, going through some approaches. But I think that entire time, it’s almost, like — we’re speaking two languages at once. It’s like we’re saying one thing, but then meaning another. Like Rags is talking me through this player’s or that player’s tendencies … but what he’s really saying is, you know, “I’m proud of you, kid.” And I’m just taking in every word, and saying back what I’d usually say, and nodding … but what I’m really saying, I think, is, “Thank you, for everything. I don’t know where I’d be without you.” So it’s like this moment that was totally ordinary — but then also, just under the surface, incredibly special.
We finished talking, and Rags got up to leave.
And then at the last second, he turned around. Looked back at me, and cracked a smile.
“Hey. Enjoy it if you can.”
From there, I’ll be honest — it was tough. Putting on my jersey … putting on my pants, my cleats … just in those last few things that I had to do to get ready … there were probably 5-to-10 times where I had to hold myself back from crying. One thought I kept having was back to all of the times in my career, especially over the last few years, when that stuff — prepping for a start, meeting with coaches, putting on my gear — had felt like a grind. And how much I wish now that I could kind of go back, I guess, and knock that younger guy on the head, and just sort of tell him, you know, “There’s going to be a morning in October, a few years from now, when you’re going to realize how much you miss this grind.”
I walked through the tunnel.
Climbed up the stairs.
Made my way to the bullpen.
Took in the crowd — this awesome sight of the only fans I’ve ever known….
Photo By Stan Szeto/USA TODAY Sports
And you know what: I think that was the moment.
That was the moment, I think, when I finally answered the question — of why it meant so much to me to play my entire career as a Giant. It wasn’t the first World Series, or the second, or the third, or the LCS against the Cardinals, or the LDS against the Reds, or one of the hundreds of Dodgers games, or the perfect game … or any other moment in between. It was the reaction that I got from those fans, on that afternoon, on my last day as a starter.
It was a reaction that said, Hey — we know what you’re going through. And guess what: We’re going through the exact same thing. It was a reaction that said, You’re going to miss this? Well, guess what: We’re going to miss this — we’re going to miss you — just the same.
It was a reaction that said, When you’re in this ballpark, you’re not just “Matt Cain, Pitcher.” You’re “Matt Cain, Pitcher, San Francisco Giants” — and you’re not on your own. We’re right here, with you, and we’re going to do this together.
And that’s what happened. I walked out of the bullpen, and I took the mound — and I didn’t feel alone the entire time. It was kind of wild to think about: 25 years after my dad had showed me this trick he’d learned in the backyard from some kid … there I was, gripping that ball, for the last, first time.
I waited for Buster, and then went into my windup.
You grip the baseball, just like that … and you throw.
It’s still about the greatest trick I’ve ever seen. It’s still never gotten old. And on my last day ever as a pitcher, it’s the craziest thing … but it still worked.
That’s the thing about magic.
Matt Cain / Contributor
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
OK, so pablo screwed us out
OK, so pablo screwed us out of the first pick. Great, we only lost 98 instead of 99. WTF?
Who the fuck is thinking about trading for Jason Heyword? God damnit!
The only trades they should be making are to get prospects and losing a few starters. If they want to trade starters for Ozuna or Yelich, then yeah, I'm interested.
Stanton would be fun to watch get IBB'd as a Giant, but his contract would cripple us for the next 10 yrs.
I love the Hot Stove portion of the season.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Bryan Sabean - "I think we're
Bryan Sabean - "I think we're prepared to do as much as we have to without gutting the team or without having to peel it all the way back from a payroll sense. It's best use a phrase perhaps like 'reset.' It's not going to be a rebuild. We don't have the time or the patience to go through something like that, so the charge is going to be much like years ago -- '96 going into '97, 2010, '11 going into '12, '13 going into '14 etc."
Forget it Mark, they're not going to do what you want, and in a way they really can't afford to do that.
They're looking to get right back in it next year. In a perfect world that's probably not the right thing for them to do, but in the real world they can't afford to be also-ran's for two or three more years. We just have to hope the moves they make are smarter than the ones they've been making. But, they've done it before and maybe they're awake again after the smack-down of last season.
I get the sense that things are chippy behind closed doors right now, no more championship/playoff hangover now. We'll see how good (and how lucky) they still are.
Whatever. Fuck 'em all...
GO GIANTS 2018!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Yeah. I am almost getting
Yeah. I am almost getting into this Stanton excitement. And we are a finalist for Ohtani.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
As a fan I'd be happy to see
As a fan I'd be happy to see Stanton in orange & black, but that type of deal is sure not how to build a clean & thriving organization. (And by "clean" I don't mean PEDS, because, well, it's the Giants we're talking about so that type of "clean" isn't really ever in the conversation)
It sounds like it's the Giants or the Cardinals, but he wants to play for the Dodgers. IMO if the Dodgers really want him they have everything it takes to get him and could swoop in at the last minute, but I'd be a little surprised if they go for Stanton, because of the money, his injury history and the fact they'd have to give up some players to get him. I think they'll pass on Stanton and go all-in for Bryce Harper as a free agent next year. And shit on that.
And the Ohtani thing is interesting. If he's serious about wanting to hit as much as possible then he'll likely end up in Seattle so he can DH, but it sounds like the Giants are possibly the NL finalist. He sounds like a damn good pitcher who hits better in a minor league like the Japanese league than he will in the big leagues, so hopefully he understands that hitting isn't going to carry him in the majors and that San Francisco has lots of good sushi restaurants.
If they do end up with Stanton they'll almost certainly have to dump some salary, which would mean Cueto or maybe Samardzija gets traded, and if they get Ohtani they can fill that rotation hole with him and use the starter to land a center fielder who can actually play center field. Cueto has to be worth more than Samardzija, but whatever happens I hope they keep Cueto. If they do find themselves in the playoffs again it's a guy like him as the #2 in a rotation that can make all the difference.
If they could get someone like Billy Hamilton in CF, Stanton in RF and platoon a rotation of Span(t), Pence & Ohtani in LF that would be a pretty fun team to watch.
We will see.
GG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
COME TOGETHER GIANTS!!!!!!!!!
COME TOGETHER GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Weell Mark, you got one thing
Well Mark, you got one thing you wanted - Moore dealt away to Texas for two prospects.
But this isn't the beginning of a tear down/rebuild, it's just the team dumping dollars so they can buy some free agents and/or pay the salaries of guys they may trade for. They're still going to go hard to win next year, for better or worse.
I'm sorry to see Moore go. Everyone has been down on him, doing the normal sports fan thing of making complete final judgments based on one bad year, but I think there's upside to that guy; he's still young and I just loved the way he pitched down the stretch and in the playoffs in '16. Plus at 9/10 million a year for two more years he's ridiculously cheap for a starting lefty, or even a bullpen lefty, but they needed to dump salary and he was a wreck last season so off he goes.
I would have rather seen Samardzija go; much more salary gain and I think we've seen his ceiling (plus I get tired of figuring out how to spell his damn name) but I get that Moore is much more of a question mark who will be replaced by one of the young guys already on the roster.
I'm still hoping they get Billy Hamilton. He doesn't hit but that guy can FLY so he's fun to watch and he would be great in the vast Siberian spaces of CF at AT&T.
Bah to that guy Martinez, I'd rather see them get Frazier to play 3rd.
One thing for sure, they haven't even started to deal, so at least the next couple of months will be interesting, if not exciting.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Also sorry to see Moore go.
Also sorry to see Moore go. He's cheap and he seemed to get better at the end of the season. He is still recovering from I think 2 TJ surgeries. I like making room for the kids. That needs to be done. But maybe Cueto might have been a better dump. Samarjia(fuck the correct spelling) Seemed to go to another level last yr. I look for big things from him this yr.
The guys they got? one is a fireballer that won't pitch until June at least because of injury. He made it to 27 on the Giants list. The other guy has not made it out of rookie ball in 4 seasons. So it was a salary dump only. No improvement of our minors, so it was not what I wanted.
Also would love to see Hamilton patrolling CF at ATT. No to Martinez(too expensive) and no to Frazier(over the hill). I think Arroyo and Pablo would be better than Frazier. And much cheaper.
I cannot see anyway that they get better than anyone in the west this yr. They are the worst team in maybe the strongest division in baseball. And that will not change with the current core. They really need a total rebuild. Maybe not as drastic as what Houston did, but similar. They could not be worse than last yr, even with rookies everywhere.
Yeah, GO GIANTS!! (Go get better, smarter)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Why is there no talk of
Why is there no talk of dealing Meloncon? We need to dump his salary and we have a very good very cheap option at closer in Dyson.
And when will Will Smith be back? Had TJ on 3/30. He's a huge piece of the bullpen that we sorely missed this yr.
And how is Arroyo mending? I say put him in at 3B and let him play. Pablo can be cheap bench bat. And a last ditch fallback guy in case Arroyo is not ready. There 3B handled. No need for over the hill Longoria.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Good call on resigning
Good call on resigning Hundley on one yr deal. They can bring up Garcia slowly.
Thankfully they are not prepared to give up the number 2 pick for Moustakis. I like him and I think he would be a good fit, but .........
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
They need to trade Belt and
They need to trade Belt and Meloncon for whatever prospects they can get. Bring up Shaw to split time at 1B with Buster. And play left field when Buster is at first.
I thought Slater did a good job last yr until he got injured. I would be happy with Gorkys in CF most of the yr. I like him and think he might bridge the gap till Duggar gets up. Save the money on a power hitter until next yr. Let the kids play and see what they got. Besides we gotta pay Madbum.
If we could have gotten Stanton and Ohtani and J Bradley Jr (or even Hamilton) and our pitching held up, we may have been able to compete for a WC spot. And then only if everybody else had career yrs. But we got none of the above, and are going to finish, I think, last in the west again this coming yr no matter what we do.
So, don't spend any money. Don't trade any prospects. Trade Belt and Meloncon and Pence and Span if you can. Let the kids play one more yr and make a splash in next yrs huge free agent class. Also spend this coming season nailing down our bullpen. See which of these kids are gonna be good and which need to be cut.
Buster and Hundley at C
Buster and Shaw at 1B
Panik and Crawford
Arroyo spelled by Pablo at 3B
Kelby at Utility
Gorkys in CF most days.
Shaw, Parker, Williamson and Slater fighting it out for corner OF and spelling Gorkys in CF.
That is 12 guys I would like to see in the field this coming yr and leaves 13 spots for the pitching staff. 5-1/2 SPs and 7-1/2 relievers.
MBum
Cueto
Samarjia
And 2 kids probably Stratton and Blach or Beede.
Bullpen
Blach or Beede
Dyson
Strickland
Gearin
Crick
Will Smith if/when he is ready.
Rule 5 guy Fernandez
Hoping either Osich or Okert get their shit together. Bout done waiting for those guys.But we need another lefty besides Will Smith. And he may not be ready yet. So these guys really need to step up.
This leaves Law and a few others to prove themselves at AAA.
Somebody please forward this to the Giants Main Offices. They can call me if they need any clarification.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Span is gone - and Arroyo
Span is gone - and Arroyo
Enter Longoria
Let's see what else happens
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Best thing about this trade
Best thing about this trade is they are no longer tempted to give up #2 pick for Moustakis.
And Span is gonzo. Hate to see Arroyo go. I was looking forward to seeing him at 3B for the Giants. They really soured on him lately. Was our #1 prospect. The other 2 guys were only on our top 30 list to give them more trade value. Nothing lost there.
We will be regretting this deal in a few yrs when he is really over the hill and Arroyo is a stud for Tampa. Or whoever they trade him to.....
But probably will make them a better team this yr and next.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
Longo is owed some big $ and
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
At least we don't have the
At least we don't have the worst minors in baseball. Just the 28th. Pathetic.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: skyjunk
McCutchen should put some pop
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Well they signed Blanco. I
Well they signed Blanco. I think maybe they are done.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Which Blanco? I heard they
Which Blanco? I heard they were signing their old Blanco and also a Blanco utility infielder from the Phillies.
I think they're both on minor league contracts, but if both make the team the Giants will lead the league in Blanco's.
And I hope they're not done. I'm not crazy about Austin Jackson in CF. It sounds like they (Sabean especially) love the kid Duggar, so hopefully he'll develop quickly and be on the big team by July at the latest, if they don't just force him onto the big league team right away just because he can play defense well right now.
And of course they don't have a leadoff hitter so at the moment it sounds like they're going to jam McCutchen there, which will likely waste much of what offensive talent he'll bring, but unless Duggar can develop quickly in the leadoff roll they have no one else remotely qualified, which leaves the fading power hitter Posey stuck in cleanup and the likes of Belt, Pence or Crawford at #5, which will almost certainly not be good enough and could well be just bad.
But no matter what, they still need bullpen upgrades. They're praying that Melancon and Will Smith return to form and Dyson holds down the setup role, but even if those guys do perform well, if they continue to think they'll be good enough to truly contend for a championship with the likes of Derek Law, Gearrin, Osich & Okert filling out the 'pen they're crazy.
But then they're not really trying to win a World Series, they're desperately trying to put together a team that will just win enough to keep it interesting so the fans keep packing the park.
Still, all three of their teams that won the Big One had lots of holes as well, but those three teams had a young Buster and the killer bullpen trio of Lopez, Affelt & Romo. Those three relievers don't get nearly enough credit for the championships, and I don't think it's coincidence that when those guys faded/left so did the team.
As it stands now they have a solid team that could be tough to beat, but they don't anyone close to a young Buster or those three relievers.
Whatever, fuck 'em all...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Cory Gearin had a 1.99 era
Cory Gearin had a 1.99 era last yr.
Gorkys and Blanco and a little AJ will fill CF until Duggars comes up. Why did they need a utility IF? I agree about leadoff.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I believe AJ will play
I believe AJ will play against lefties mostly. And I think mostly LF, unless Pence surprises everyone.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
* GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I told you all we should have
I told you all we should have rebuilt this yr. Everything they did to win this yr is out the window. Gonna be a long season. What is the over under on the 10 or 11 games against the dodgers first month of the season. 3? I guess we'll see. Gonna be a long season.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
If only you worked for
If only you worked for management, Mark!
A friend of mine is down at Spring Training - I hope he didn't have to see Bumgarner's injury happen.
GO GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
hey Mark- LIGHTEN UP
hey Mark- LIGHTEN UP
Give it a chance before you throw them under the bus
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Really Mark? I told you so?
Really Mark? I told you so?
OK, if we're going to play that then I told you that there was NO WAY they were going to trade Bumgarner, Crawford, Panik, Samardzjia, Melancon and even Posey, which is what they would have had to do to "rebuild" this past offseason, and only Bum and Posey would have netted them any real payback, and trading either of those two Giants icons would have lead to a fan backlash and crash in every way that would not have been sustainable for the organization.
The situation that is the reality now because of the three championships is that it would have been death for the organization to trade Giants legends for minor leaguers and openly tank for two, three, or more years. It was just not realistic, or IMO the right to have done. Even if trading Bum might have been the right thing, or at least a bold thing to have done long-term, it isn't a board game being played in their living room, it's a multi-billion dollar enterprise where making every effort to keep a good product on the field and take one more run with this group of World Series winners is the only thing they realistically could do, especially given what they had to trade that had any real value, and generally they did a good job of putting together a pretty solid team this year without giving up too much.
By all accounts they are also putting more focus & money into their player development moving forward, and I do think they'll be more aggressive after, or depending how things go maybe during this season with moving on from some of their past stars, but this year's team was/is set up to be good, maybe very good; Bum getting nailed by a line drive is brutal but is just part of the game, but I think they'll still compete.
What I do think they may well do short-term if they don't come together this year and they fall WAY back at the trade deadline is look to see what Longoria, McCutchen, Melancon, Cueto & maybe Crawford & Panik might bring them, which might be quite a bit if those guys are doing well at the deadline, and unless they really rage this year moving some or all of those guys could be a real focus next off-season (maybe even Bumgarger, but never Posey) and the fanbase won't explode if any/all of THOSE guys get traded during or after another lost season.
But they couldn't just give up before this season by dumping two or more of their greatest heroes. In a vacuum it might have been the right thing to do, but in reality it would have been an organizational disaster in a number of ways, even if they got two or three young guys who might become quality players or even stars by 2020/21.
That's just the reality of being a big winner, and I'm OK with that, and generally with what they did to build this years team and what looks to be their plan for the next few years.
GO GIANTS!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
go go go BABY go
go go go BABY go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
When are we going to get an
When are we going to get an electronic strike zone? I don't care if the umps do go on strike over it. And I am a union guy. That horrible call cost us 2 runs. Even Utley knew it was a strike. This shit is unacceptable as we have the technology to get every call right. And what is the point of challenges when they still get it wrong in NY? Fucking umps are horrible.
Tom, I did not say trade Bumgarner, Crawford, Panik and Posey. Maybe Meloncon before the season, but he is worthless now. But I definitely did not want to take on the salary of Longo. Anybody we could have gotten(minor leaguers) for shark would have been good. It does us no good to have these guys on the payroll when we have no shot at winning with this team. Would not kill us to have another yr or two like last the last one if our payroll was down and we helped our minors even a little. We could have opened the season with Pablo and Arroyo sharing 3B. Crawford, Panik, and Belt(although I think they could have gotten something for him) at 1B. Posey and Hundley behind the plate, and Duggar, Mac, and Slater starting in the outfield and they would be as good a team as they are now and have a much brighter future. We did not give up a lot for Cutch, but why do we need him this yr? Ajax? At least they did not give anyone up for him. But we didn't need him either.
I did not want an allout total rebuild, but I do think we could have put out an equal team with a much smarter outlook. Small and dumb bandaids don't get it. Saddling us with Longo's contract was a huge mistake. And will never pay off. Even if he hit 300 with 25 HR's it would not make this team a winner. And how many more yrs?
I am looking forward to see who they take in the upcoming June draft. And looking forward to watching the kids play. But we are going nowhere this yr.
Now it is 11-2. All because of that missed strike call..............
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Dan
another 100 game losing
another 100 game losing season is what i see happening here
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Who'd a thunk we would be 6
Who'd a thunk we would be 6 and 4 against the fodgers to start the season. Especially once we lost Madbum. Mostly shows how bad they are playing.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lasher Von Zekenstein
Dodgers lost Seager for the
Dodgers lost Seager for the season. He was just getting hot.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Even as guys are dropping
Even as guys are dropping left & right they're starting to come together as a team.
Longoria is swinging and picking, and this kid Hanson is really adding some speed and energy. He seems to be a bit of a brick defensively, but he's helping right when things could have gone deep south with Panik out for weeks and things looking bleak with Cueto.
With Williamson really looking like he's turned a corner they could keep it going offensively, taking pressure off of Posey and allowing him to be what he is now. I think as the season goes a lot will depend on Williamson, but he was really looking good before he banged his head. They need him to get back on the field, and wouldn't it be great if the Giants didn't keep getting concussions?!?
If Cueto is gone that's going to hurt bad, but Bum will be back, the kids are looking good and the bullpen is looking very solid, especially with Smith back.
I wish there was a way they could play Panda more, his swing looks fully back and his dose of humble pie has made an obvious difference, but Longoria needs to play and when Belt is on a roll he's got to play as well. A good problem to have.
Keep winning boys.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Somehow, every time it seems
Somehow, every time it seems time to write them off they come back and play well as a team and start to look OK again.
A very nice win for Pudge's kid today, and damn Panik is really playing well, picking up right where he left off a month ago when he got hurt.
Bum is back on Tuesday, I'll be there, Melancon is back and hopefully he's finally OK. If so he should push that mediocre pretender Gearrin out of the way and will fit nicely into the bullpen rotation that is suddenly looking really strong, with Watson & Smith along with Dyson. Strickland has the closer spot locked down, for the moment, but he looks really good there so far.
Now they have to weather yet another of Belt's yearly guaranteed trips to the DL, but with Panda there that doesn't look as daunting a loss. When he comes back we'll see if he gets to the second of his yearly certainties - the stone cold, extended black hole slump. What a thing if somehow Belt can overcome that and actually play well for an entire year, but after seven years of very consistent inconsistency I'll believe that after I see it.
With the division staying close, if they can just stay healthy for a time and if Cueto can come back they could make a real run in the 2nd half.
Just no JS please (Giants fans know what that means).
GO GIANTS!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Bum game will be on the tube
Bum game will be on the tube up here tomorrow night- I'll tune in.
F--king walking wounded this team- every time someone comes back from the DL- 2 other guys check out
Jesus CHRIST
good weekend @ China Basin
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
JS? My mind must be clogged.
JS? My mind must be clogged. Oh, Jeff Samardzija? I really expected better from him this yr.
Yeah, these guys are surprising me right now. We need to shore up the leagues worst defense though. Been playing better last few. 3 great outings from the kids over the weekend. And Holland tonight. I am using Holland in my fanduel DFS team today along with a Giants stack offensively. Only a 0ne dollar gpp.
Giants still list Blach as their number 2 starter, but he has been warming up to come out of the bullpen. I guess he will be out after Madbum gets back. Wish I could join you for the game tomorrow.
Today is draft day. Hope we don't screw it up. Hope the Tigers don't take Mize. He would be great in orange and black. Springer I think next, but we may take that catcher that hits so well. I guess we shall see.
Glad to see Belt finally breaking out. Hopefully he will avoid the slump this yr.
We have a number of problems with the 25 man roster coming up soon. Will be interesting.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
JOEY BART!!!!!!
JOEY BART!!!!!!
The next Buster Posey? They say he won't be in the minors for long.
Rated 60 60 40 70. (Hitting, power, run, arm 20-80 scale) Great numbers for a college kid.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
The next Buster Posey?
The next Buster Posey?
Good grief.
Let's not be throwing that at the kid, although I'm sure that's all he'll hear.
A bit of work to do to attain that level.
But he sounds like a good prospect.
Another nice win tonight.
I'll be lurking next to the splash cam tomorrow night.
Down with the Snakes!!!
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Their second pick, if he
Their second pick, if he makes the big leagues, will be tied for the tallest player ever to play MLB. 6'11" pitcher. Was his conferences pitcher of the yr in 17. Hjelle, Sean 6' 11" 225 lbs out of University of Kentucky.
Today they took 3 RHP and an OF last pick.
Bart will be in MLB top 100 for sure. We will see on Hjelle, but probably not right away.
Now they need to sign these guys.
Great game last night. Gonna be rockin tonight for sure, have a blast Tom.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Just picked a SS. Both he and
Just picked a SS. Both he and the OF are 17 yrs old. Won't see them for awhile.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Williamson better be back in
Williamson better be back in the lineup tonight.
I get that they want to give Pence one more shot, but he just looks old and washed up, and trying for the second time in a few months to completely change his swing, this time mocking the deal that Williamson has changed to that has made (to this point) a HUGE difference for him just smacks of total desperation for Pence.
Unless he feels desperate enough to go to the medicine cabinet Hunter looks like he's at the end of his road, and the Giants can't waste time messing with him. I get that he hit well in a few rehab games in the minors and he smashed a hard grounder for a hit last night, but Williamson has the chance to be a real difference maker and he needs to play every day right now. Unfortunately we all know how ol' Boch likes to play these type of situations.
Also, Austin Jackson should be shown the door, dude is worthless, and as you called it Mark Gorkys is playing damn well and has won the CF job.
Suddenly the bullpen looks excellent, but they need to get Cueto back. That and Williamson showing that he truly has become a consistent smasher are the keys to this team giving it a real run. And also if maybe they could go three games without three injuries a game.
GO GIANTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Yeah, the bullpen has become
Yeah, the bullpen has become maybe our best asset.
First ten picks are done. 7 RHP, 1 OF, 1 SS and 1 C.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Pence looks like an absolute
Pence looks like an absolute train wreck at the plate most times- I mean WTF.
They should make a video on how NOT to swing a bat in the majors with footage of him.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Tim
Taking on the mighty Marlins
Taking on the mighty Marlins
I smell a sweep
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Looking like a possibility...
Looking like a possibility......
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Tim
Game 4 .......extra innings..
Game 4 .......extra innings.......hmmmmm
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Tim
16 inning marathon
16 inning marathon
close but no cigar
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Tim
Marlins heading out west
Marlins heading out west tonight.....Time for the Giants to get those wins back.
Miamis MO this season. Win a few and get 2 or 3 hundred fans back and the BAM shit the bed and go 1-9
At least they have cheap tix at home with great eat and drink specials
Sat front row of first base for $16 with all the food you can eat on a Saturday night.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Now if we could just get rid
Now if we could just get rid of Shark and Longo we would be set. Maybe even pick some one up at the deadline.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
when's the last time they
when's the last time they scored more than 3 runs?
GOD they suck
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Dodgers 15-0? Demoralizing
Dodgers 15-0? Demoralizing
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I don't think we should do
I don't think we should do any trades unless we get rid of somebody. Like Longo or even Belt. Any trade we do do, should result in our getting prospects. Bullpen is OK. I say give them another yr. Give Panik one more yr to get over the concussions. Maybe trade Madbum at the deadline, we'll see how everything looks then. Sign him back up as a free agent. OF = Duggar and Gorkys(as the 4th) and one or 2 of the kids. If we sign a power bat corner OF I would not mind. But do not trade for one. Garcia and Posey behind the plate for one more yr. Hopefully Bart develops quickly. Maybe pick up one starter. Madbum, Shark, DRod, Stratton or Suarez, and a new guy. Maybe even re-sign Holland. Lets see what we have for one more yr. Cueto comes back in 2020. I don't see a lot we can or should do this yr. The team is much better than they showed last 2 yrs but not near good enough. If Panik comes back to his normal yr, Belt and Longo stay healthy, all pitchers improve a little and we find some pop in the OF(Either from Mac or who-ever) then this team can win maybe 85 games. But one more yr to see what we can do as is. Then maybe blow it up next yr. But this yr, barring trades of the old and inefficient, I say one FA Bopper OF and one FA starting pitcher.
What do you all think?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: .............
Being a Brave fan...i love
Being a Brave fan...i love the resigning of an old vet to play w these kids...brian mccann...and taking a one year 23 million $ flyer on josh doneldson is fine w me...if that guy can ever stay healthy--- he ll hit...
Im hearing Giants have said "anyone and eveyone is available"...hmmmm, should be an interesting offseason
Go Braves. GO Sox.
Happy Holiday Season to all....
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
There are only three players
There are only three players the Giants have that are worth anything in a big way and two of them have no-trade clauses. That leaves Bumgarner, who comes with a brilliant resume but a declining fastball. Will he be worth HUGE money a year from now?
Bum's value was at the highest last trade deadline, but in all fairness the Giants were only 4 - 5 games off the division lead at that point with the hope that their group of vets could get hot. If they had been 15 games out at that point they may have moved him then, but I don't really blame them for holding on and taking the chance for another late season run.
At this point anything is possible with Bum, but I think this guy the team poached from the Dodgers to run the team who originally came from the A's will have a long-term plan that won't include huge deals right away. Most reports are that he'll try to dump some of the bigger/longer contracts like Longoria & Belt without trying to get too much back except payroll flexibility, which is what he did in LA a few times.
They say he'll probably look to acquire some starting pitchers and field players who are able to play multiple positions, which he's big on, but I don't think the team they field this year will look that much different than last years, while this guy makes moves that allow him to do more in the future.
Ultimately I think they got a real good guy to run the team, and they gave him full control which I wasn't expecting but is great and is probably why he agreed to come. And because he has no ties to the organization or their past glory if he wants to work a deal for Posey or Crawford and can get them to waive their no-trade clause he won't be held back by personal ties or pressure from above.
Either way, the dude's got a BIG job on his hands, but all indications are that he's qualified to do it.
So do it!!!!!!
GG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I think we should go all out
I think we should go all out for the Japanese pitcher. Kukuchi?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Kikuchi. He will be posted
Kikuchi. He will be posted tomorrow.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I hear that Friday night's
I hear that Friday night's game's scoring was a stunner - from Giants 0-8 to Giants 12-11. Wow!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
finally scoring some runs man
finally scoring some runs man - nice
https://www.mlb.com/video/longoria-s-2-hr-game
Go Giants
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Yeah, and most of the scoring
Yeah, and most of the scoring is coming from that mix and match OF(and lately, Longo). Pretty cool. I try and figure out who will still be around in a few yrs when we are good again.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
I don't see anybody in the IF
I don't see anybody in the IF being around much past their current contracts. Except maybe Pablo. That guy has really turned himself into an asset. Both in the game and on the bench. Austin is listed as 1B. He could still be around. Maybe Solano as Utility?
Pitchers? Who knows. Beede, Anderson, maybe Moronta. D-Rod? Maybe Suarez? Cueto heading the starting rotation?
Aramis Garcia backing up Bart at C.
OF, now here is where it gets fun.
I think Duggar will be in CF for a long time. I hope so.
Would like to see Slater, Yas and maybe Dickerson stick around.
If all these guys stick, in three yrs, that's only 15 men. Need to fill those other 10 with some major quality if we expect to get back to the top.
What you gotta say, Tom? Loyd? Judit? Anybody?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
I heard they already signed
I heard they already signed Panik for next year- yes keep the Panda too .
The rest can go- bye bye to the 2 Brandons. Time to re-tool.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Panda is worth more to the
Panda is worth more to the team as a trade asset for a young prospect. A very good but aging role-player on a terrible team is worthless, but for a team pushing for the championship right now a top-quality switch-hitting pinch-hitter with power & proven clutch who can also fill in at 3rd & 1st is VERY valuable.
Unfortunately the Giants are a loooooong way from pushing for any championship, so if they can get anything of future value for him he needs to go, along with ANY other player they have now.
Duggar can't hit & he isn't as good in CF as we were lead to believe (which won't be as important since they're going to homoginze the stadium next year and pander to the lowest denominator by moving in the fences, but still) so he probably won't be around long. Beede is finally starting to show something, but he's no ace level pitcher. I honestly don't see much of anyone on this current roster who will be on the team in a couple of years...... hopefully, because virtually no one on this roster is really any good (except two or thee guys they must trade away).
I'm happy at the way Zaidi is doing business so far and I hope he completely guts this group to squeeze out every drop of value, because they need it ALL.
It's a damn shame they have to trade Smith and it's a total gut-punch to be forced to trade Bumgarner, but IMO their best/most interesting trade piece isn't Bum or Smith, it's Joey Bart. That guy is the real deal and is showing that he's likely going to be ready for the big leagues sooner than later, which is great, but of course the ongoing elephant in the room is Buster Posey and what happens with him?
The prevailing thinking of course is that he'll move to 1st, which would have been fine five years ago, but as an impact middle-of-the-order hitter that guy is washed up (and has been for at least three years). Now & going forward there is NO WAY Buster Posey is going to be even close to a good enough hitter to justify playing him at 1st on any winning team.
As he is now he is at best a solid catcher who could start & hit 7th or 8th on a winning team, but even that is hopeful/wishful thinking, as even now at 31 he's breaking down all the time (and at almost $20 million a year that's a burden on the rest of the roster). And the idea that once he gets out from behind the plate his hitting will come around is a long-gone dream.
The damage has clearly been done; all the multiple concussions, the endless beating to his hands & wrists, his knees, back & ankles have done their evil work. It's sad to watch him constantly foul off, hit a soft fly or a flair on a flat 90mph fastball right down the middle, a pitch he CRUSHED every damn time before catching took it's toll, and watching his surprise/shocked reaction to those failures might be more sad.
Which leaves the Giants in a conundrum; what do they do with Buster if/when Bart is pushing his way onto the roster, maybe by this time next year? Buster is worth ZERO in a trade, plus he has a no-trade clause (that he would likely wave because he's a good guy, but still). To me the answer is pretty simple, especially for a team as desperate for young high-end talent as the Giants are: leave Buster behind the plate though his contract - 2022 - let him be the leader of a young, rising group of players and the one remaining hero of the long-gone glory days, and either move Bart to 1st right now or trade Bart for a top quality 1st base prospect.
The Giants have some interesting young prospects and they'll almost certainly get more soon, but they have virtually no one on the roster now they can reliably count on for the future. The organization's arrogance and short-sighted greed has put them in this deep hole and now they don't have the luxury to mess around; to dig out of this epic mess they must absolutely maximize every single asset they do have, and IMO, along with Bum (who will be a BEAST this year for any team who gets him) and Smith, Bart is their BEST overall asset right now.
Anyway, it has been fun to watch them win a few games lately, even if they're doing it with scrubs, hacks & pretenders, with just a touch of greatness thrown in.
GO GIANTS!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
BTW, writing that little
BTW, writing that little essay yesterday afternoon inspired me to tie my shoes, get off my ass and go to the game, which was a real good one, even with the incredible bad luck of seeing Bumgarner get SMOKED by a line drive and be forced to leave the game (after staying in the game for another inning - what an all-time stud he is). The Slater slam was amazing (these days the balls are just as juiced as the players) and seeing Panda stroke one right-handed was damn fun too.
It's only the third game I've been to this year, because obviously it's not as fun to make the effort to watch a last-place team, but I figured it could be Bum's last game in a Giants uniform and I had to get out to see & cheer for him again.
The last game I went to was his previous start at home, his first after getting shelled in LA. I went for the same reasons, thinking it could be the last time seeing him on our side, plus I figured he was burning from his embarrassing loss in LA on national TV and would be snarling. I was right on that one, he was absolutely brilliant that night, vintage Madison Bumgarner, and it was glorious to see him dominate once more.
One good thing about rooting for a bad team, it's so easy to go to a game. Parking no problem and cheap, tix dirt cheap, no lines for food or beers, plenty of room to stretch out. I do enjoy being at a game that isn't crushed with people.
But I enjoy watching a good team competing for a championship much more, so...
LET'S GO GIANTS!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
http://www.knbr.com/2019/07
http://www.knbr.com/2019/07/07/giants-send-own-message-to-farhan-zaidi-a...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Yeah, well, Zaidi's gotta'
Yeah, well, Zaidi's gotta' say the right things, they've won a few games and he's also deep in bartering mode, but if he's worth a half a damn he's about to send his own message.
Trade 'em Zaidi.
Trade them ALL!
GG!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I think this article says it
I think this article says it well.
https://theathletic.com/1066550/2019/07/07/the-giants-enter-the-all-star...
Fight a hard line and get quality, but be sure to fight for real quality.
This is an amazing moment in Giants history, happening right now. The Giants are down, deep down, but at this moment they're actually in a bit of a power position because despite being a bad team they've got a number of guys who are really valuable to a team on the cusp of champagne in the locker room. What Zaidi does with those guys in the next 1-12 months will make or break this organization, at least for my personal ability to follow it.
If he's really good he's going to get guys now that he'll turn around to get other guys. And he'll build a team.
Competitively this season is meaningless but for the future it's huge, and I'll be happy if Zaidi trades off everyone for prospects and then trades those prospects for more prospects/young quality players down the line. But IMO the one current exception is if he can't get real value for Bumgarner then they should consider NOT trading him, but breaking the bank and signing him to a long-term extension right away. Because at 29 I think he's still the real deal and it would give the organization a boost and the team a focus & a real leader (I can't help it. I'm a huge Bumgarner fan).
But if they CAN get real quality for him now, then trade him.
And sign him back as a free agent next year.
If Zaidi does this right, REALLY right, the Giants can be back pretty quickly.
GG!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Trading away the future for
Trading away the future for the present is what has put us where we are(also why we have 3 recent rings).
Here's to hoping several other teams will be willing to give now that we are on the other side.
And I agree about Farhan. He is just positioning to get the best deals he can.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Go Gints
Go Gints
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Who are these guys?
Who are these guys?
And who the hell is Dickerson???
I still say trade Smith, and any others, IF the price is right. But as a fan I say trade Bum only if they get TOP quality, which reportedly they won't.
At this point I say unless they get BIG compensation they should trade the others but keep The Bum - shock the world and SIGN The Bum, and let that carry the 2nd half.
They're playing real good right now.
(Realistically they should probably trade Bumgarner for whatever they can get, but I'm a fan and damn they're playing really good right now)
GO GIANTS!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Well, today's the day.
Well, today's the day.
It'll break my baseball heart if they trade the Bum, but sometimes one must be cruel to be kind, and this guy Zaidi seems to know what he's doing.
He just made his first deal and got a what sounds like a good young 2nd base prospect who's ready for the big leagues for Pomeranz & Ray Black, which seems to be a good move, as Pomeranz came to the Giants as a cheap FA and Black is a good reliever with potential, but the G's have a number of those.
I believe that if Zaidi trades Bumgarner he'll get good value for him.
And despite the bizarre hot streak the team has been on, they really do need all the upgrades they can get.
GO GIANTS!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
OK, well that's it. Bumgarner
OK, well that's it. Bumgarner stays, Smith stays, Watson stays. I wonder how much pressure Zaidi got from the owners to not break up what has been a red hot team to sell tickets (a team that I still believe is mostly smoke & mirrors), and also to support Bochy's final year, or if the offers were mediocre and not worth the deals.
Even though Melancon finally started pitching well, IMO dealing him is fine as long as they don't have to eat much of his contract. Until we know how much money they've actually dumped the quality of that deal is up in the air IMO.
Trading Dyson will hurt the team right now as he has really pitched well this year, but they have other guys who can fill that set-up role and it sounds like they got a good young outfielder who is RAKING in AAA and should likely join the big team this year (especially if Slater starts sliding) and they got a couple of young pitchers in that deal as well, one who looks to be doing excellent in A this year.
So now, can they keep winning with all these scraps & hacks? Can Dickerson keep blasting the ball all over the field (can he even stay on the field, with his back issues)? Can Mike Yastrzemski continue playing so well? Can Longoria come back and finally contribute something to earn all HIS money? Can Mauricio Dubon & Scooter Gennett help right now? Can the young starters keep doing well into the dog days of a long, hot summer? Can Buster drive in even 50 RBI's this year?
The hope was to deal Bumgarner & Smith to get some players who could fill the multiple holes they have now & the near future, and by not dealing those two main assets it still doesn't seem that they have any idea who their leadoff and 3/4/5 hitters will be next year. No big whoop, just a few small holes to fill.
They've got some really good prospects that could fill those holes, but they're likely 2 to 3 years away. Oh right, they still have Buster to hit cleanup!
There is still lots of work to be done.
We will see. At least they've made this year interesting.
GO GIANTS!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Looks like ATL will eat all
Looks like ATL will eat all of Melancon's salary so that was a good deal, even though he has been pitching well lately. The Dyson trade will hurt us right now, but I honestly don't expect this team to make the wild card no matter how well they are playing right now. It is mostly the same team as all yr. Hopefully I am wrong and we will have Madbum for the wild card game and beyond. But I really think they should have traded him. Hope this young OF they got for Dyson will pan out. Singe A pitchers are really hit or miss.
Dickerson went on the DL today with an oblique strain. That could be a factor for the rest of the yr.
Scooter Gennett? Not sure who they gave up for him, but I kinda like the way Solano has been playing. Panik might be done.
Yaz has been playing really well. He might be a keeper.
The Shark has been pitching very well. The young'ns struggling a bit but the offense has been good enough to pull them out most days. We'll see how long that lasts.
Gonna be an interesting the rest of he way.
GO GIANTS!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
What happened to D-Rod this
What happened to D-Rod this yr? Was last yr a fluke?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
The hotshot OFer we got for
The hotshot OFer we got for Dyson did not even make our top 30 prospects list.
Only 2 of the guys we got all day ended up on the list.
2B Dubon, that we got for Ray Black(and Pomeranz) checked in as our #8 and RHP Tristan Beck(Melancon) is at 18. Makes the Melancon trade a very good one cause Atl is eating all his salary for the rest of this yr and next.
We now have 4 in the top 100 list. Bart('18Draft) 21, Heliot Ramos('17Draft) 55, Marco Luciano(international signing) 65, and Hunter Bishop('19Draft) 71. Our best showing in a very long time. But we needed to add another one or two to this list.
I still say they should have traded Madbum and Smith. There are I think 5 teams ahead of us in the wildcard race, we have a very tough schedule left, we only have 2 SPs that are pitching well, Dickerson is on the IL with an oblique injury which could last awhile and we traded some major bullpen pieces away. Yaz can't do it all.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
Yaz has been playing really
Yaz has been playing really well. He might be a keeper. <<<<<<<<
Might ? Definite keeper.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: More Barn
^^ its the potato's in his
^^ its the potato's in his system via his grandfather growing up in southampton ny before the hamptons got cool :)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
>>> Definite keeper<<<
>>> Definite keeper<<<
Smallish 28-year-old rookies are rarely 'definite' anything, but Yastrzemski is a scrapper with some pop and may settle into a nice 4th outfielder situation on a good team.
Not dealing Bum & Smith is complex, since it IS a business. The team has been playing really well and the owners 'definitely' want to sell some tickets in the next two months. In the Giants situation that is always going to be part of the equation.
More importantly, we don't know the offers they got for either of those guys. Other than the Greinke deal none of the top prospects were dealt around the league, and Grienke isn't a rental like Bum & Smith, so it's hard to say if who the Giants would have gotten would have been real difference makers (ones or twos) or just more prospects. I also think Zaidi would have pretty much lost the locker room if he had dumped either or both. In the real world GM's aren't playing fantasy or video games, and that type of organizational chemistry matters. To me that and a few other things he's done show that he understands he's a leader, not just a deal-maker, and IMO that portends well for the future.
And Mark, personally I couldn't care less about any lists. The guy they got for Dyson is exactly the type of guy Zaidi is looking for; a flexible player who's pretty much ready for the big leagues, has speed, good defense w/ a good arm and pop in the bat. Dyson is a pretender anyway so that one looks good to me.
And getting Atlanta to take ALL the Melancon money is amazing. To me that looks like a clear move to open money for next year's free agent market. GREAT deal there IMO.
I still say the guy they should have traded is Bart, since they would have gotten more for him than for Bum AND Smith, and Buster is fine for the next two/three years as a solid veteran catcher hitting at the lower/bottom of the order. Bart is a great prospect, but they don't need a great young catcher, they need a great young 1st baseman, 3rd baseman, LF, CF, RF, etc. The Bart/Posey situation is lining up to be a VERY tricky issue, especially if Bart is knocking on the door next year.
Still, given all the circumstances I think Zaidi did really well. This team was not going to be fixed in one year or one trading deadline even if they did deal Bum & Smith, it's going to be a while before they're really back, so one step at a time.
GG!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Good-bye and good-luck to Joe
Good-bye and good-luck to Joe Panik. Was a great duo there(with Crawford) for many yrs. If his defense had not slipped near as bad as his offense, he might still be around. I imagine someone will pick him up and give him a try.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
https://www.nbcsports.com
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/giants-prospect-jaylin-davis-ha...
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Giants called up Mauricio
Giants called up Mauricio Dubon today, along with submariner Tyler Rogers and Joey Rickard (again) and dumped Scooter Gennett.
Good riddance on Gennett. It was quickly apparent why the Reds dumped him for nothing. He may be able to hit some (although he sucked for the Giants) but that guy is a brick at 2nd.
And Jaylin Davis will almost certainly be called up September 1st, as he's not yet on the 40 man roster.
Is it possible he can continue hitting the way he has been?
Oh please, let it be true.
I'm looking forward to seeing him & Dubon play for the big boys. They could REALLY use both of those guys to be real players next year.
Oh, and Cueto will be back in the rotation soon, possibly starting against the Dodgers next week.
Spetember should be fun, and in May I never thought I'd be saying that. It's good that the team is allowing Bochy to go out competing till the end.
GG!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
(No subject)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
I didn't go to yesterday's
I didn't go to yesterday's final Bochy game, but it was as much a farewell to an era, the greatest era of the SF Giants by far, as it was a farewell to Bochy.
Having Bumgarner, who very likely will be wearing different colors next year, come out to pinch-hit against Kershaw was classic and a real good-bye to him. Very classy of Kershaw to throw nothing but fastballs to Bum, knowing well what Bumgarner can do to a fastball. If the Dodgers didn't have a big lead that may not have happened, but it was still cool and Bum ripped one right at the 3rd baseman.
But after the game when all the different players came out to honor Boch, and especially the players from '10, '12 & '14, it felt to me more of a goodbye to the even-year championship era, like an official end to a time that many of us waited decades for and didn't believe we'd ever see.
In a way it was very sad, which was how the reclusive Tim Lincecum referred to it, but it was more a celebration of a special time and a chance for one more ROAR for all those great times. I would have liked to have been there to add my voice for those guys once more, but I was there for almost all the best times of the Bochy era, and that's what I'll remember.
Thanks for all those great memories Boch!
On it goes, and...
GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Watched the ceremony on tv.
Watched the ceremony on tv. Was wonderful. My eyes did not stay dry for long.
I thought it was well done and a fine tribute to a hall of fame mgr. And to those great teams.
I hope that we do not sign any free agents this offseason. Maybe an arm or 2 for the bullpen but we are stuck with the infield we have, Starting pitching will be good enough with Cueto and Shark(Who can spell his name), and the kids. Would be nice if Madbum re-signed, but not holding my breath. And I am really excited about what Farhan has done with the OF. Resign Pillar, and we will be OK there.
We get the 13th pick in next Junes draft. 2-3 yrs before the bad contracts are gone. Would like to see them move Belt(without eating his salary but that will be tough) and move Posey to 1B. Hope it is not too late. Maybe re-sign Vogt also. And give Garcia more opportunity.
I got no idea where they will go for a mgr. They wanted Bell but he signed with the Reds. I doubt they will go with anyone on the current(mostly gone) staff. I think a total retooling might be in order.
I am not ready for this season to be over, as I am not ready for this mild summer to be over, but so it goes.
Should be a fun post-season. I think Houston will win it all. Anybody but the dodgers.
Loved it when Bonds grabbed Roberts dodger hat and threw it. Great ceremony all around. Well done Giants.
And yeah, as always, GO GIANTS!!!!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Tom or anyone have insights
Tom or anyone have insights/thoughts on the mgr situation? (Giants)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
my resume is ready to go
my resume is ready to go
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lance minimum goad Newberry
Nah, Zaidi's keeping it close
Nah, Zaidi's keeping it close to the vest.
Lots of talk about a lot of different names, most with past connections to Zaidi, but nothing definitive.
There's been a bit of talk recently about a coach with Houston who isn't available for interviews yet... although it looks like that may change sooner than later after tonight.
Women are freaking that Gabe Kapler is being mentioned, and with his past troubles of covering up/diminishing domestic violence issues it's hard to see him coming to SF, but it seems his often bizarre managing decisions with Philly should be a major concern as well.
We must have faith that this guy Zaidi knows what he's doing. This decision may well be the biggest one he ever makes.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Gabe Kapler?
Gabe Kapler?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: nebulous nelly
Kapler? Seriously?
Kapler?
Seriously?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Giants are the best team in
Giants are the best team in baseball at the allstar break. Whoda thunk?
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
And aside from a few highly
And aside from a few highly questionable pitching moves, Gabe has done an outstanding job. And Farhan continues to pick diamonds out of the rough. And our Hitting/pitching coaches are among the best in baseball. Good job to Giants front office and a GREAT job to the players themselves.
GO Giants!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: tar_w
Lets go Giants!!!
Lets go Giants!!!
My son, AJ is a Dodgers fan, seeing as that he is being raised in the Los Angeles area. Wife, Kelly is a SF Giants fan too. We battle a lot in our house, but since we live in SoCal, we go to a lot of Dodgers games.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Wow. A break in the crickets.
Wow. A break in the crickets...
I used to go to a bunch of fodger Giants games When I lived down there.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
Mark, old school Zoner
Mark, old school Zoner posting old school in The Folder. Finally.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Baseball is a "sport".....
Baseball is a "sport".....
Doubt if the Giants will win more than 84 games this yr, but they may be better than folks think. Looking forward to seeing some of the kids come up. Kyle Harrison especially. The Giants farm system went backwards again according to MLB. We only have 2 in the top 100. Harrison and Luciano. Both should be up this yr sometime and then what? Been a fan of Farhan's so far, but his group needs to get better at drafting and developing talent or we will never be as good as the 2 teams down south. And he got played by both Judge and Correa this offseason. Both, I think, boros clients. Wish he(boros) would just go away. Horrible for the sport.
Our pitching might be OK if one or both of the new guys step up(was a huge blow losing Rodon, why couldn't we resign him? ) and I think the pen should be better than last yr. Bart should be better and the OF will definitely be better. I am going to miss Belt though. Crawford is once again in a contract yr, so maybe he will be more motivated than last yr. He really disappointed me. We'll see what surprises are in store for us. Opening day we'll be in Hawaii.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
One player in the top 100.
One player in the top 100. Webb at 97.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: Lord Kalvert
(No subject)
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Hear that!
Hear that!
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: MarkD
Giants seem to have turned it
Giants seem to have turned it around a bit last week or 2.
Bomel's one glaring deficiency is handling the bull pen.
But the kids really sparked the vets and they are playing much better.
This homestand will tell a lot. They are up against the 2 best teams in all of baseball(right now), the yanks and the Phils.
Go Giants!
Baseball is a sport.
Top of Page Bottom of Page PermalinkFull Name: treat island
I heard they're playing
I heard they're playing better.
GO GIANTS!